86 Conquest complete rebuild

[WME]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-24V-Max-20A-PWM-DC-Motor-Stepless-Variable-Speed-Control-Controller-Switch-/111936836128?hash=item1a0ff49220:g:REkAAOSwcUBYU0wW

Go first class.

Expanded metal makes a nice vent cover

[benfrogg]

Neato!

[vrocrider]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 11:59 AM, benfrogg said:

Neato!

Would you be interested in selling front facing window on overhang if in good shape? Just need frame. Thanks.

[benfrogg]

Yes, although shipping the whole window might be pricey if it's over the normal shipping limitations.  

The window itself is in fair shape.  The outer frame has black moldy caulking covering most of it.  I don't think it leaks between metal and glass... I think someone was trying to solve a leak without understanding where the water was getting in.... most of the main leak up front was coming from the seams and penetrations further up the roof.  The glass is dirty.  I'll have to clean it up to know it's full condition.  The inner frame is in decent shape.  

To anyone else interested in parts:
I have one of the large side windows, lots of cabinet hardware/doors including the glass doors above the fridge.  I kept all the appliances, sink, you name it.  If it was still useful, I kept it.

 

[vrocrider]

Hi. I'm interested in frame, trim plate, and seal/weather stripping only. No glass. My rough hole is 12 1/8" x 59 1/8" x 7/8" deep. Dirt, caulk, silicone, whatever OK.  Thanks  

[vrocrider]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 1:55 AM, benfrogg said:

Yes, although shipping the whole window might be pricey if it's over the normal shipping limitations.  

The window itself is in fair shape.  The outer frame has black moldy caulking covering most of it.  I don't think it leaks between metal and glass... I think someone was trying to solve a leak without understanding where the water was getting in.... most of the main leak up front was coming from the seams and penetrations further up the roof.  The glass is dirty.  I'll have to clean it up to know it's full condition.  The inner frame is in decent shape.  

To anyone else interested in parts:
I have one of the large side windows, lots of cabinet hardware/doors including the glass doors above the fridge.  I kept all the appliances, sink, you name it.  If it was still useful, I kept it.

 

Interested in window. Do you know dimension? Thanks.

[benfrogg]

At long last, I'm back with more progress.

Tax time put a serious dent in my funding, so I had to slow down for a spell.  It has given me time to do some detail work, so no big deal.  Enjoy!

VROCRIDER: I've sent you a PM.
 

 

[WME]

Sure hope you get a bulk rate on the screws.

To keep things waterproof use a dab of sealer on each screw.

[benfrogg]

These are the gasket type roofing screws.  Normally I'd dab each,yes, but in this case they are designed to keep the water out on their own.  They aren't cheap... but little is anymore.  My helper did get a bit carried away with the spacing of the screws on the overlaps... so now there's a precedent to keep doing it.  They cant hurt.

That sealer is nasty to work with.  But the end result should last 10-20 years without maintenance.  

[benfrogg]

It's on the road!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course, there's a pile of odds and ends that need to be finished up.  But it's driving down the road and will be used for the first time at the end of this month.

Let me know what you think!

 

Edited June 12, 2017 by benfrogg

[linda s]

You have done an amazing job. Thank you so much for sharing it with us. Are you sure your not available for adoption?

Linda S

[benfrogg]

Thanks Linda!

The list of things needing to be done is getting longer.  I'm active on the IRV2 forum.  A user there pointed out that I'm low on clearance lights...
I'm going to add 2 on back and two just around the corner on the sides in the rear.  The camper is just over the legal limit to need the triple lights in the center... but only just.  We're talking a few inches too wide.  Since I didn't plan for them, I'll have to do some ugly wiring inside to make those happen.
Maine is pretty lax on enforcement.  I'll roll the dice until someone tells me I have to do them. 

I'm also going to try my hand at electric cooling fans/conversion.  According to a motor trend test video I saw, that clutch fan could be killing 14+ hp.  Sure, I'll lose some at the alt, but that's generally going to be 1-2hp max.  And they wont run all the time anyway.  
I've driven it fully freighted with gear and passengers about 15 miles on the rather hilly roads around my house.  It's pretty underpowered.  Hills must be planned in advance.  Net 10+ hp is a worthy quest, I think.  I will, however, also add an LED on the dash to indicate when the dual fans (10" pair) are running.  This way I can monitor them while driving.  

I do need to find a place to mount a coolant sensor.  I'm all ears if anyone knows of any freeze plugs or similar that I can work with.  Anybody opened up your cooling system lately?


Oh well, the best projects are never really done.  

[linda s]

The whole county is lax on clearing lights. My Nissan Sunraders don't work and I drove it from New York to California and never got stopped once. Lots of truck campers only have one on each side in the front and they get by.

For more power you mean your fan clutch? Switching to electric will not give you any appreciable power increase. You already have a coolant sensor or your inside engine temp gauge  wouldn't work. Why do you need another one.

It's underpowered. That is just a reality. Best thing I do to get it at the top running range is valve adjustment.  Unlike the 6 these 4 bangers seem to get looser. Tighten them up and mileage and power go up a bunch. 8 12 is what most of the specs say but 7 11 is closer to what it came out of the factory. A member of another site is a Toyota wizard and he swears by the 7 11 figures.

Nothing is going to make this magically turn into a V8 power or even a V6

Linda S

[benfrogg]

Absolutely on the lights and underpoweredness of these rigs.  
I'll add valves to my list and go with your 7/11.  

Only quibble is the HP gains from fan conversion.  Here's the video I was talking about.  A bit of hype going on here to sell the show... but the results are good enough for me to give it a go.  Worst case, I spend a few bucks and gain nothing.  I'm willing to roll the dice on that too.
To be fair, the show did not actually test how much 30amps of load has on overall hp loss from the alternator. 
 

In any event, it will be a good experiment.  I'll be the guinea pig for the Yota MH community.

PS the existing temp sensor may or may not be compatible with the one from the fan kit.  It has a motor controller, relay, and thermostat.  I'll have to reach out to the manufacturer to determine if the sensors are close enough to work.  Maybe?  My basic understanding of thermostats is that they have resistance corresponding with temp.  The range of the existing ohm's might differ from the Yota.
 

Edited June 13, 2017 by benfrogg
PS info

[Derek up North]

Clearance lights:- I'd suggest you install them and keep them working. I've never see any point in giving a cop an excuse to pull me over. I think you're also missing rear side marker lights.

 Electric fan:- I'm sure there must be some benefit otherwise they wouldn't be omnipresent in modern vehicles. HP, MPG, noise? Hard to measure in the real world. Dyno results are nice, but ...

Thermostatic control of electric fan:- Many kits come with an adjustable thermostatic switch that is attached to a radiator hose. I see no problem with this method, since it's adjustable. If I was adding an electric fan, I'd also add a manual over-ride switch, just in case the thermostatic switch malfunctions.

Valve clearances:- The only published figures I've ever seen are 0.008"/0.012". I don't consider anecdotes on the 'net to be official. I've read the claims by a 'wizard' that they left the Factory set @ 0.007"/0.011", giving improved performance over the published numbers. I've read back through archived posts and he makes this claim after (supposedly) measuring clearances on 2 or 3 new 22REs. I'm skeptical, asking myself: "Who measures valve clearances on a brand new engine?" And IF the different clearances offer so much, why didn't Toyota publish them in the FSM? It seems to me that if 0.008"/0.012" gave any loss of performance, customers would be back at the shop complaining after paying for a 30K mile valve adjustment. Anyway, try it if you like, but I doubt anyone will ever come up with any proof that they were shipped from the factory with anything other than the published spec.

 

[WME]

On many of the aftermarket fans the temp sensor is a small tube that goes inside the radiator hose and the rubber hose seals it OR the tube gets pushed between the radiator fins.

P.S. Reflectors will work as temp clearance lights. In the day time they look like lights and at night they light up when headlights hit them and again look like lights

 

 

Edited June 13, 2017 by WME

[benfrogg]

I've installed side and rear running lights.  Agreed, less reasons to be pulled over are always worth doing.  Definitely going to get some reflective tape for elsewhere because more visibility is good.

Also agreed on the dyno results.  Anecdotally, many folks have mentioned improvements in power and mpgs with electric.  

I found the type of controllers you're talking about.  These are the type that fit in the fins of the radiator or in the hot side hose of the radiator.  I'm going to get one of those.  Also decided to go with the dual 10 or 12" fans.  Just need to make some measurements and decide how to build a shroud for them.
That aside, I'm not afraid to roll the dice.  

Interesting thoughts on valve clearances.  With only 50k, I'd be surprised if they were all that far out to begin with.  Agreed, if there was a better way, the manufacturers would likely have done it from the factory...   I am, however, willing to believe that a 22re with 100k on the clock might be better served by tighter valve clearances.  I suppose someone could adjust and test the results on power/mpgs.

I'm considering removing the ac components.  It presently doesn't work.  I have a set of gauges and a refill kit.  I'm going to give it a go. If anything other than the condenser is bad, it's all getting pulled.  The AC pump has very little drag when the clutch is disengaged.  However, it's proportional.  At high rpm (when power is needed most) there could be 1-2hp being robbed by it. (IMO)
Regardless, if it doesn't work, it's not worth fixing for 1 month a year's use. I'm sure it would be 50-75 pounds worth of kit that wouldn't be going down the road too.

[linda s]

Valve stuff. It's a Japanese engine. They use the metric system. Explanation here

Linda S

The underhood tag has metric specs of .200mm/.300mm and metric is the only system used in Japan.

But an American .008" feeler blade is not .200 mm thick it is .203 mm; i.e. thicker than .200

and an American .012" feeler blade is not .300 mm, it is .305 mm - again thicker.

So these thicker American feeler blades cause one to set the valve clearance wider than .200/.300. Worse yet, most people adjust valves with a warm engine instead of a hot engine. Valve clearances contract as the engine cools. Therefore this contracting effect causes mechanics to set the clearance looser still.

Setting to .007/.011 offsets the effect of the two sources of error mentioned above and engine power, engine noise and fuel economy is dramatically better at .007/.011
stiff sliding fit (hot engine) than at .008/.012 slight drag (warm engine)
 

[Derek up North]

10 hours ago, linda s said:

Explanation here

Is this the source of your explanation?

http://4x4wire.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/printthread/Board/2/main/5074/type/thread.html

If it is, it's an 'anonymous' post 'quoting' and un-named person on an un-named Forum. Give the Factory Service Manual any day. But that's just me.

The difference between 0.200mm and 0.203mm? 0.000118"! A tenth of a thousandth of an inch over. So to compensate you're going to adjust 9 tenths under?

[linda s]

Except the engine is never really hot. By time you get the hoses and valve cover off your working with warm only.

Linda S

[benfrogg]

Hey-
I rolled the dice and changed out the fan.  I've driven it about 90 miles since doing so under some pretty challenging conditions.  The electric fans barely ran and the needle only moved a smidge at idle.

I went with the cheapo ebay fans.  I WILL upgrade these after summer.  I just didn't want to drop a lot of $ if it wasn't gonna work.
I also went with the adjustable fan control.  It works great!  That controls a relay, which turns on the fan AND a large LED light down near  my right calf.  It's not distracting, but I notice it and then look at my temp gauge.  

I built an aluminum shroud out of alloy angle iron from cheapo depot.  The plate is an old road sign.  

There's more room under the hood, less moving bits to lose a finger in too.
With two fans, if one fails, I've still got a backup.  I've got a spare relay in the glove box.  And with a couple of jumper wires I can run the fans direct to the battery in a pinch.

 

But here's the important bit:
Power= better.  I don't have numbers to give you.  But I can say the truck has noticeably more power up hills.  We played two gigs in two weekends at the same club.  It's about an 80 mile round trip with LOTS of big hills.  Almost mountain like.  Average speed 50mph.
One big long hill dropped me from 60 mph at the base to 41 mph by the top.  (full throttle) 
After replacing the fan, the speed at the top was 46 mph. (full throttle)

The fan ran once on the uphill at the very top, but only for about 5 seconds.  The temp gauge didn't budge.

The driveability has increased. It's notable how much faster it can get to the speed limit when you need to pull into traffic.

Fuel Economy:
I did check fuel economy, although, these numbers are far from causation.  One tank fillup is not nearly enough data to make significant conclusions.  There are simply too many variables.  If I had time, I should have done several fill ups with the old fan.  Then swapped to the new fans for several tanks.  Then swapped back.  But I don't have time/energy for that.
All that being said:

80 mile trip with tons of hills, fully loaded with gear and 4 people.  12.23 mpg
Same exact trip, same time of day, same load only the fan changed 13.96 mpg

This was calculated using the fill up, drive 80 miles, fill up and check method.


Now the truck will hopefully get better than 14mpg long term.  Lots of aerodynamic drag reduction projects yet to be done.  I think I can get 16 or 18 mpg out of it.  Maybe 20 if I really want get crazy.  But that would be a HUGE percentage increase.  Definitely a challenge.  Someone good at math, can you figure out that percent change?  My gut says 35%-40% increase.  I've been able to exceed EPA by 30% in other cars.  We'll see!

PS: I removed my AC condenser as it didn't work and we rarely need AC in Maine.  That might have an effect on the cooling ability of the radiator.

B

Edited July 14, 2017 by benfrogg
Forgot the bit about the AC.

[WME]

Don't blow off the ebay fans, you have 2, the odds of both quitting at the same time is slim.  If you get in the replacement mode check out  Ford Taurus fans from the local pick n pull.