OK, should this thing be here? If not, what should? (minicruiser)

[Boondockit]

27 minutes ago, zulandio said:

On mine that is where all the Negative wires go to complete the circuits as well as a wire from negative battery.

OK! Thanks!

I found the connection from my battery into 12V distribution box (or vice versa)

A= Wire to battery

B= Connection point to box (it shares the terminal into the 12V box with the positive big white wire coming from schumacher)

 

If there was actually juice coming into 12v distribution box from a converter charger, would this one wire (A)  serve a dual purpose of allowing/sending current to charge the battery as well as receiving  current from battery into the box for distribution to house amenities?

[WME]

6 hours ago, Maineah said:

I don't quite get how a battery can help make "clean" power when it disconnected from the inverter output during  the charge cycle. In the case of a modern inverter it may have some effect.

The battery is a huge restive/capacitive filter it acts like a big sponge to soak up some of the noise from the pwr supply.

[zulandio]

5 minutes ago, Boondockit said:

OK! Thanks!

I found the connection from my battery into 12V distribution box (or vice versa)

A= Wire to battery

B= Connection point to box (it shares the terminal into the 12V box with the positive big white wire coming from schumacher)

 

If there was actually juice coming into 12v distribution box from a converter charger, would this one wire (A)  serve a dual purpose of allowing/sending current to charge the battery as well as receiving  current from battery into the box for distribution to house amenities?

What terminal does it go to on the battery?

[WME]

OK looking at your drawing, what are you calling a bus box???

 The line drawing you originally posted is correct... rip yours apart and install a real converter and wire it like the drawing.

You are suffering from a PO kluge job, trying to save it is a waste. Rewire with new wire and do it properly, sleep better for it. 

P.S. you have a simple low draw 12v system a 25-35 amp converter is all you need

Edited September 25, 2016 by WME

[zulandio]

3 minutes ago, WME said:

OK looking at your drawing, what are you calling a bus box???

 The line drawing you originally posted is correct... rip yours apart and install a real converter and wire it like the drawing.

You are suffering from a PO kluge job, trying to save it is a waste. Rewire with new wire and do it properly, sleep better for it. 

 

[WME]

That is an auto reset CB.

We seem to have 2 projects going on at the same time on the same post. Lets try to separate them. 

[zulandio]

2 minutes ago, WME said:

That is an auto reset CB.

We seem to have 2 projects going on at the same time on the same post. Lets try to separate them. 

No my system works flawlessly. I'm showing him my system as a reference.

 

[zero]

1 minute ago, zulandio said:

No my system works flawlessly. I'm showing him my system as a reference.

 

Is that Powermax converter a power-supply, charger, or both?  Just curious. I never saw one with that brand name.  My Iota DLS-45 is convertible. It can be used as a regulated power-supply with no battery at all if wanted.  Runs at a steady 12.5 volts.  Or - there is a port in the back. I put a plug in and it turns into a multi-stage battery charger and converter.  In this mode, it is always trying to get system voltage up to 14 volts.

[zulandio]

31 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

Is that Powermax converter a power-supply, charger, or both?  Just curious. I never saw one with that brand name.  My Iota DLS-45 is convertible. It can be used as a regulated power-supply with no battery at all if wanted.  Runs at a steady 12.5 volts.  Or - there is a port in the back. I put a plug in and it turns into a multi-stage battery charger and converter.  In this mode, it is always trying to get system voltage up to 14 volts.

It's a 3 stage system. I've run it without a battery just have to connect the grounds. But I don't think it does what yours does.. 

[Maineah]

6 hours ago, jdemaris said:

I don't care if you "don't get it."   I am just citing what is in the Basler owner's manual.  Send them a letter and tell them you do not agree.

Why bother they have not made that stuff in years.

[Maineah]

2 hours ago, WME said:

The battery is a huge restive/capacitive filter it acts like a big sponge to soak up some of the noise from the pwr supply.

True it is and it can help with some noise but the older converter/chargers disconnected the battery from the converter output and used a separate  circuit to charge the battery at much lower amps so using the battery as a line filter won't work on the converter output because it's not connected.

[Maineah]

7 hours ago, Boondockit said:

I see, thanks, I would get the type of converter charger that plugs directly in to the outlet (where the existing schumacher is now) so that should be ok for the dc panel right? I have to find which wire leads to battery on this rig...thanks!

I'll be frank if some thing showed up in my door yard that looked like that I would start from scratch. You can keep the 12 volt fuse panel that's fine properly wired, having no ideal how the 120 box is wired it would come apart too including your charger outlet. The battery wire is too small to do much good either charging or running acc. Get rid of the Romex 12 volt stuff get the colors right and matching. Black is used as positive in most RV/camper 12 volt usages and white as ground these days but wires don't care what color they are just stick to a standard color to avoid confusion later. The number one cause of RV fires is wiring do it right!

[zulandio]

2 hours ago, jdemaris said:

Is that Powermax converter a power-supply, charger, or both?  Just curious. I never saw one with that brand name.  My Iota DLS-45 is convertible. It can be used as a regulated power-supply with no battery at all if wanted.  Runs at a steady 12.5 volts.  Or - there is a port in the back. I put a plug in and it turns into a multi-stage battery charger and converter.  In this mode, it is always trying to get system voltage up to 14 volts.

Mine doesn't seem to do that here is voltage with all lights on and kitchen fan. 

[WME]

4 hours ago, Boondockit said:

OK! Thanks!

I found the connection from my battery into 12V distribution box (or vice versa)

A= Wire to battery

B= Connection point to box (it shares the terminal into the 12V box with the positive big white wire coming from schumacher)

 

Simple answer WFCO 8725. Start over and make it right. Add the 30 amp AC input breaker, that way you can grow your AC system for a microwave or an A/C

 http://www.bestconverter.com/WFCO-8725P-Power-Center_p_50.html

Edited September 26, 2016 by WME

[Boondockit]

4 hours ago, zulandio said:

What terminal does it go to on the battery?

I believe it is going to positive on battery terminal

[zulandio]

2 minutes ago, Boondockit said:

I believe it is going to positive on battery terminal

That other wire going in that same floor hole goes to your battery as well I'm guessing?

[Boondockit]

Thanks so much to all, I really appreciate your time and expertise...

I will follow advice given and redo the electrical system, I have a friend with electrical experience to help me but no RV per se...

If anyone would be forgiving of my needing so much hand holding and would be willing to recommend a setup (piece by piece by brand and model to acquire) I would love that, also wire gauges best for that setup (I am going to keep the 12v fuse panel as suggested).

I would seek recommendations for (links if you have 'em):

• The right 120 Box replacement suggestion (with recommended gauge wires)
• The best converter charger for my needs (make and model) and correct gauges to go to battery
• The right gauge to go back to 12v fuse panel (from battery)
• Anything else that I am probably missing here

The best outlet to replace the one the current Schumacher charger is plugged into

I am an IT pro, I never understand when people say they are envious of my knowledge and that they would give anything to know what I know but in this situation I really feel that way about those helping me here, thank you,,,

 

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Boondockit

[Boondockit]

42 minutes ago, WME said:

Simple answer WFCO 8725. Start over and make it right. Add the 30 amp AC input breaker, that way you can grow your AC system for a microwave or an A/C

 http://www.bestconverter.com/WFCO-8725P-Power-Center_p_50.html

ok, I see this:

Quote

and total of up to three 20-Amp branch AC circuits can be installed

I have 5 or so AC outlets throughout the coach, what is the difference between circuits and outlets? (or maybe you can tell me if 5-6 outlets are ok with this box)...

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Boondockit

[zulandio]

 

3 minutes ago, Boondockit said:

ok, will this also give me 120 to my outlets in coach? I see it is a converter and outputs 12v

No that is only DC you don't need anything but a breaker box for AC.

[zulandio]

25 minutes ago, Boondockit said:

ok, will this also give me 120 to my outlets in coach? I see it is a converter and outputs 12v

Oh I guess that's an AC box too my bad.

[Boondockit]

I see that the power station can allow 3 ac circuits, I have 5 ac outlets, I am deducing that that there is a difference between outlets and circuits? How many outlets can be on a given circuit?

[zulandio]

1 hour ago, Boondockit said:

ok, I see this:

I have 5 or so AC outlets throughout the coach, what is the difference between circuits and outlets? (or maybe you can tell me if 5-6 outlets are ok with this box)...

 

A circuit can contain many outlets but you have to be sure not to overload a circuit with too many appliances or it will pop the circuit breaker in ac systems and fuses in DC systems. 

My system has 3 breakers 15 amp, 20, and 30. I'm sure the 30 is for the roof ac. 15 is likely the outlets.  And 20 for fridge and converter/charger.

But in your situation unless you plan on running a bunch of appliances one breaker would be fine. Which it looks like you already have. If you were going get that power center you'd also have to buy the breakers for it 15amp is sufficient for outlets. 

You'd  want a separate breaker for the fridge I'd think though. 

[WME]

This simple to do (for me anyway)  The 8725 has most everything in one box. You just need to cut a mounting hole.

Using the 8725 as an example here is my idea, 30 amp AC main breaker will power the converter and a 15 amp AC breaker to power all your AC outlets. If you later add something AC you can add another 2 CB to power things

Take the DC side and add fuses and hook up the DC loads.

You'll also need to add a couple of resettable 12v CB between the isolator and the house battery.

  

[Boondockit]

6 minutes ago, WME said:

This simple to do (for me anyway)  The 8725 has most everything in one box. You just need to cut a mounting hole.

Using the 8725 as an example here is my idea, 30 amp AC main breaker will power the converter and a 15 amp AC breaker to power all your AC outlets. If you later add something AC you can add another 2 CB to power things

Take the DC side and add fuses and hook up the DC loads.

You'll also need to add a couple of resettable 12v CB between the isolator and the house battery.

  

Ok, thanks, to be clear, this unit contains no breakers to start with? The isolator you are referring to is the chassis battery isolator that leads to house battery? If so, why 2 breakers? I am a complete noob to all of this and I am actually being schooled here on this forum (sorry)...

[zulandio]

Just now, Boondockit said:

Ok, thanks, to be clear, this unit contains no breakers to start with? The isolator you are referring to is the chassis battery isolator that leads to house battery? If so, why 2 breakers? I am a complete noob to all of this and I am actually being schooled here on this forum (sorry)...

 

My converter only draws 7 amps 30 is way too much, the power center you linked is only a 3 amp draw.

[zulandio]

8 minutes ago, Boondockit said:

Ok, thanks, to be clear, this unit contains no breakers to start with? The isolator you are referring to is the chassis battery isolator that leads to house battery? If so, why 2 breakers? I am a complete noob to all of this and I am actually being schooled here on this forum (sorry)...

I learned something here as well what I thought were bus boxes are in fact auto reset circuit breakers. I'm thinking I'll need to replace mine due to the bigger converter I purchased. And you have one already at your battery. The little box with two studs sticking out. And I realize he meant a 30 amp main breaker for the AC box which it can come with for $9 more on that site.

[zulandio]

If you really wanted to I'm sure you can just get a converter charger and make sure it's installed correctly as well. It would likely be less work and less expensive.

[WME]

The 30 main breaker is $9, a twin 15 amp breaker (2 15 breakers in one box) is $13.

A 35 amp PowerMax power panel a $145, the 8725 is $99 plus CB

[Boondockit]

10 minutes ago, zulandio said:

I learned something here as well what I thought were bus boxes are in fact auto reset circuit breakers. I'm thinking I'll need to replace mine due to the bigger converter I purchased. And you have one already at your battery. The little box with two studs sticking out. And I realize he meant a 30 amp main breaker for the AC box which it can come with for $9 more on that site.

yeah! The bus box goes to the positive side of the battery, so is this basically the same principle as a hub? I notice that the alternator charge from chassis hits there as does the wire from the 12v fuse box...

OK, so if I do go with the converter charger then I am mostly concerned with making sure the wire from the converter charger to the battery is a much thicker gauge yes?

[zulandio]

Just now, Boondockit said:

yeah! The bus box goes to the positive side of the battery, so is this basically the same principle as a hub? I notice that the alternator charge from chassis hits there as does the wire from the 12v fuse box...

OK, so if I do go with the converter charger then I am mostly concerned with making sure the wire from the converter charger to the battery is a much thicker gauge yes?

No I was mistaken it's not a bus box. It's a circuit breaker that trips when too much amperage goes through it and auto resets when it drops. In my system I have 2 of them. The first one has 2 wires leading off it and the + from the converter/charger. They then go to another one by the batteries which has a lead from the Isolator from the engine. I'm not 100% on how all that works but realize I may need to get bigger Auto CB since I'm guessing they are only 5 amps. Which would explain why the load feeding feature of my converter charger is not working. So thank you actually for helping me figure out something was wrong with my system as well. They say the best way to learn is to teach that has been my experience as of late.

In your case it protects the battery from an overload from either the Isolator or charger. If you do just go with a converter/charger I'd suggest being sure the charger goes to the battery where the isolator hooks up to the CB. Which may already be the case I don't know. Then the other side of that CB would go to the 12v box which there is a wire going from where the battery hooks up to something. But I think your system is wired wrong.

 

 

[Boondockit]

14 minutes ago, Boondockit said:

yeah! The bus box goes to the positive side of the battery, so is this basically the same principle as a hub? I notice that the alternator charge from chassis hits there as does the wire from the 12v fuse box...

OK, so if I do go with the converter charger then I am mostly concerned with making sure the wire from the converter charger to the battery is a much thicker gauge yes?

Here is a pic of what I have after taking connectors off, I am looking up "bus box" online with qualifiers like "rv" "electrical" etc and I can't find anything, do these have another more common name? Text on device reads 12v 30a and then what looks like 332

[zulandio]

Oh and also your changer is not grounded

3 minutes ago, Boondockit said:

Here is a pic of what I have after taking connectors off, I am looking up "bus box" online with qualifiers like "rv" "electrical" etc and I can't find anything, do these have another more common name? Text on device reads 12v 30a and then what looks like 332

See my last post not a bus box but an auto reset circuit breaker. Like a fuse that doesn't fry when it trips.

[Boondockit]

6 minutes ago, zulandio said:

No I was mistaken it's not a bus box. It's a circuit breaker that trips when too much amperage goes through it and auto resets when it drops. In my system I have 2 of them. The first one has 2 wires leading off it and the + from the converter/charger. They then go to another one by the batteries which has a lead from the Isolator from the engine. I'm not 100% on how all that works but realize I may need to get bigger Auto CB since I'm guessing they are only 5 amps. Which would explain why the load feeding feature of my converter charger is not working. So thank you actually for helping me figure out something was wrong with my system as well. They say the best way to learn is to teach that has been my experience as of late.

In your case it protects the battery from an overload from either the Isolator or charger. If you do just go with a converter/charger I'd suggest being sure the charger goes to the battery where the isolator hooks up to the CB. Which may already be the case I don't know. Then the other side of that CB would go to the 12v box which there is a wire going from where the battery hooks up to something. But I think your system is wired wrong.

 

 

Zulandio, youre about 7 hours away and this is is taking up many more hours of my life than that, if you would be willing to PM me cacioppofamily@(the famous email that starts with g) and if I can pay you to help me that would be great...you seem to know exactly what I need and I'm just not experienced...

[zulandio]

3 minutes ago, Boondockit said:

Zulandio, youre about 7 hours away and this is is taking up many more hours of my life than that, if you would be willing to PM me cacioppofamily@(the famous email that starts with g) and if I can pay you to help me that would be great...you seem to know exactly what I need and I'm just not experienced...

Well I sent you a Hangouts request. The thing is I'm planning on leaving, likely this week, on a trip to move to FL for the winter.. If you were considering driving here or me driving there...

[zulandio]

30 minutes ago, Boondockit said:

Zulandio, youre about 7 hours away and this is is taking up many more hours of my life than that, if you would be willing to PM me cacioppofamily@(the famous email that starts with g) and if I can pay you to help me that would be great...you seem to know exactly what I need and I'm just not experienced...

Here is a diagram I made up that should work in your system.