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D*mn Toyotas . . .


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A few days ago someone told me that saw a real odd-looking Toyota motorhome for sale downstate from me.  About a 270 mile trip.  Then this morning - a little Toyota SUV came up for sale in the same area, on Craigs List.  A Pontiac Vibe AWD (actually a Toyota Matrix).  I called the seller. He was the original owner and swore it was in perfect running condition.  Absolutely NOTHING wrong with it.  So, we agreed on a price and I headed down there.  I figured this way - I'd finally get my Matrix, and also get to see this "oddball" Toyota RV.  Well?  I got to the place where the Matrix/Vibe was for sale.  I got in with the seller and started to drive it.  It made an awful noise - like a bearing was badly burnt out in the front drive somewhere. He told me "it was fine" and he just had all new wheel bearings put into it.  I would not trust it for a 5 mile trip - much less to drive it to where I live 135 miles away.  I then saw the "check engine light" come on. He (the seller) that also was no problem and it has done that "for ages."  I was pretty ticked off for making this trip when the guy told me it was in great mechanical shape.  So, I left. I then swung over to where this mystical Toyota RV was supposed to be - and it was NOT there.  Oddly - what I DID see - was a really neat 1982 Coachmen camper based on a Chevy 3/4 ton truck and a 6.2 litre diesel engine.  The original owner just died and supposedly it has 7000 original miles on it. No way for me to know. 5 digit odometer it might be 107,000 miles or 207,000 miles.  I will say the engine looks like new and is original which is rare for a 1982 diesel.  First-year 1982 diesels had special problems that were fixed in 1983 and most have been replaced years ago.  So who the heck knows?  The person selling it for the dead guy wants $4000.  I just dumped over a dozen 6.2 diesel trucks when I moved out of New York two years ago and not sure I want any more. But if the guy would sell for $2500 - I'd be very temped.  He said he only drove it on one trip to try it out and it got 17 MPG. Not sure if I believe him.  My Chevy Suburban with a 6.2 diesel and same TH400 auto trans got a best of 18 MPG.  Kind of hard to believe that the same engine and trans in the Coachmen RV body does better.

So,we got home tonight at 7 PM after driving mostly all day.  I turn on my computer, check my email and guess what? I get a Craigs List alert about a Toyota mini RV that was just listed for sale in the place I just came back from. GEEZ !   It is a 1986 Toyota Bonanza Traveler. I wish I could of looked at it close. Price is too high for me but maybe it will go a lot cheaper? Last one I saw in that condition went for $1800.

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Love love love the Coachman Caper. The Chevy diesel one is very rare and this one looks super clean. As far as the Bandit judging by the rust in the front wheel well it looks like the same one that has been for sale in that area for a very long time. Previous ads mentioned that the frame was badly rusted and the coach might need to be put on another chassis. The Bandit was on ebay a couple of times too. The pics look to be a different location than the others so I'm wondering if these people bought it without realizing what they were getting into

Linda S

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The all wheel drive Matrix has a couple known issues depending on year, one being the bearings in the viscous coupler for the rear end.  I test drove one when looking for a car for my sister-in-law and immediately heard it.  The check engine light, who knows.  If you are interested in a AWD matrix though, these bearings are an easy fix.  I suspect the noise is often a reason some trade them in.

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10 hours ago, linda s said:

Love love love the Coachman Caper. The Chevy diesel one is very rare and this one looks super clean. As far as the Bandit judging by the rust in the front wheel well it looks like the same one that has been for sale in that area for a very long time. Previous ads mentioned that the frame was badly rusted and the coach might need to be put on another chassis. The Bandit was on ebay a couple of times too. The pics look to be a different location than the others so I'm wondering if these people bought it without realizing what they were getting into

Linda S

There was a Bandit for sale for a long time in the Chicago area on CraigsList.  Maybe Ebay too (I don't watch Ebay like I do Craigslist).  I know the seller said it had bad rust issues, no brakes etc. He also wanted too much money for it. I can''t remember what year it was -but yes - might be the same one. This seller also wants too much for it (in my opinion).

I wish I'd had more time to check out that Coachmen.  We were on the way to see that Vibe/Matrix and we were running late.  The seller had come out, with keys in hand, and wanted me to drive it. He said he knows nothing about diesels but claims it runs like new.  It IS amazingly clean under the hood - especially for a 6.2 diesel.  This is a first-year 6.2 and there were several major issues with them.  Normally - all those issues were fixed within a few years unless the truck got junked.  But . ; if by some chance this thing REALLY has only 7000 miles on it - then it might still have all those problems ready to happen?  Head-gasket failure was the #1 problem and GM had a kit to fix it. #2 problem was early failure of the fuel injection pump.  If I had taken a little more time - I could of looked closely at the engine and found out if it had been updated. Injection-pumps get a metal tag affixed to the top with "EID" on it - to show they have been updated. Those engines are all over the place now and priced next to nothing.  That since the US military used them in Humvees and CUCV trucks by the thousands.  When I left NY - I had three spare, complete good running 6.2s and wound up giving them away, for free.  That a a bunch of 6.2 trucks, K5 Blazers, etc.  I did not save any of it and figured I'd never see another 6.2 diesel again. I should take my own advice and NEVER get rid of anything.  

The seller wants $4000 or "best offer."  I might call him and tell him if the price drops to $2500 - I'll buy it. It IS a neat rig.  I just wish it had a manual transmission instead of the auto.  Since it is a 3/4 ton and not a 1/2 ton - I should have the near indestructible TH400 three-speed automatic, and not the horrible 700R4 used in 1/2 tons and some light-duty 3/4 tons.  The 700R4 is a four-speed auto trans with lock-up and it had horrendous problems for it's first 4 years that cannot be upgraded or fixed. 1982 is the first year for the 700R4 trans and for the 6.2 diesel.  Only remedy is to find a replacement 700R4 made after 1986 OR replace it with a TH400.  Again - I could of known just by looking inside at the shifter but I did not take the time. I now wish I did.

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9 hours ago, Back East Don said:

The all wheel drive Matrix has a couple known issues depending on year, one being the bearings in the viscous coupler for the rear end.  I test drove one when looking for a car for my sister-in-law and immediately heard it.  The check engine light, who knows.  If you are interested in a AWD matrix though, these bearings are an easy fix.  I suspect the noise is often a reason some trade them in.

This was a 2004 with 160K miles and looked like new.  Original owner and he had just recently had new wheel bearings put in front.  I was not afraid that I could not fix it. The issue is this.  I drove a long ways and the seller told me it "ran perfect."  I told him before I left home that if it had any known mechanical problems - and it was priced to reflect that - I'd drive down with my Ford truck and car-trailer and trailer this Vibe/Matrix home.  But he swore - "no issue and it ran perfect."   So I get there and as soon as I see the check-engine-light on, and the awful howl it makes whenever it moves - the seller's credibility was lost to me. He would not drop the price at all and I already offered him full Kelley Blue Book "private sale" value.  So, I left.  Too bad. It was a nice looking rig with zero rust and that is rare around here for a vehicle that age. No way would I risk driving 130-140 miles home with it.  

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6 minutes ago, 86rader said:

That chevy diesel coachmen looks extremely clean. That mileage just may be correct. And what Linda said about the toy. If the fenders and rockers are rusty, you don't even wanna know what it looks like underneath.

I would not buy with rust on the truck part unless buying as a parts-rig and just for the RV coach part of it. NOT at that price though.  I lived for over 40 years in NY where many roads are salted summer and winter. I know very well how rusty old Japanese metal gets.  No way to repair when it gets to a certain point. Only one thing worse and that is old French metal.  That was a big problem with the Winnebago Centuri, LeSharo, and Phasars made in the 80s.  French sheet metal fell apart -seemingly even if NOT driven on salt.

Oddly, here in northern Michigan - the roads are also salted summer and winter yet I find many old RVs with no rust.

Here is a typical 70s Toyota that got driven most winters where I lived in NY. I paid $275 for it, stripped it, and junked it.

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And this 1986 Winnebago Phasar built upon a French commercial van.  60K original miles.  Ran perfect and I paid $75 for it.  Has no real frame. Just unibody.  When I got it home, 20 miles away, it hit a bump and the right rear wheel and suspension almost fell off.  What was left of the frame broke in two.  Again, stripped it and junked it.  Perfect running gas engine and auto trans with lockup and OD and I could not give it away.

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1 hour ago, jdemaris said:

This was a 2004 with 160K miles and looked like new.  Original owner and he had just recently had new wheel bearings put in front.  I was not afraid that I could not fix it. The issue is this.  I drove a long ways and the seller told me it "ran perfect."  I told him before I left home that if it had any known mechanical problems - and it was priced to reflect that - I'd drive down with my Ford truck and car-trailer and trailer this Vibe/Matrix home.  But he swore - "no issue and it ran perfect."   So I get there and as soon as I see the check-engine-light on, and the awful howl it makes whenever it moves - the seller's credibility was lost to me. He would not drop the price at all and I already offered him full Kelley Blue Book "private sale" value.  So, I left.  Too bad. It was a nice looking rig with zero rust and that is rare around here for a vehicle that age. No way would I risk driving 130-140 miles home with it.  

My comment wasn't reflective of this particular deal just these in general as you indicated that you've been in the market for one.  Just an issue I ran into looking for one for family and found out it was pretty common.  I find common issues like these a good negotiation point.  Even if there are no indication of problems.

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Just now, Back East Don said:

My comment wasn't reflective of this particular deal just these in general as you indicated that you've been in the market for one.  Just an issue I ran into looking for one for family and found out it was pretty common.  I find common issues like these a good negotiation point.  Even if there are no indication of problems.

Kelly Blue Book is $2800 for private resale in "good condition."   $1800 dealer trade-in. The seller originally wanted $3400 and then reluctantly agreed to $2800.  That agreement was based on good condition and I could drive it home. If I had known it had issues - I'd gladly paid something like $2300 and put it on my trailer and trailered it home.   He just paid $700 to have two front wheel-bearings put in and I'm wondering if the dealer (GM dealer) told him the noise was a more expensive repair.  What really ticks me off if there are two Vibe AWDs for sale in that area.  Both are 2004s and both are rust free.  Both in the same town and the other one has an asking price of $2400 and also "runs perfect."  I wanted to pick a day when I could look at both.  The other one is not available to view until next week due to the holiday weekend.  This guy (with the one making the noise) had me so convinced that it was a "done deal" - I drove out there.  My wife and kid and dog were fine with the trip.  Beautiful day, we pigged out at Burger King and hiked some old-growth state forest on the way back.  Regardless - I still do not like being jerked around.

A note on the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix.  We have a "fleet" of summer cars/trucks and then a few we only drive in winter snow as beaters.  The winter rigs have to be 4WD or AWD.  Right now we are down to two (almost three).  My 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan AWD  with 340,000 miles and it runs like new but very rusty.  No major repairs ever!  Also a 2001 Chevy Tracker 4WD that is really a Suzuki. Great running rig but it is rear-wheel drive as default and slides all over the place unless put into 4WD.   A local junkyard owner told me to find a Vibe or Matrix AWD. He says they are the best  good-gas-mileage AWD on the planet.  We want something with a little cargo room AWD or 4WD, and also good gas-mileage. It is very hard to find anything with a small engine and good MPGs.  Our Tracker has a 2.5 V6 and only gets around 22 MPG.  Our Dodge Caravan has a 3.8 V6 and gets around 20 MPG (best highway mileage).  We also have a 2010 Suzuki XL7 that is really a GM with a 3.6 V6 and that piece of crap only gets 18-19  MPG best.  So, I have been looking for two years now for a buy on a AWD or 4WD that can get 26-30 MPG and not cost a fortune.  The Toyota Matrix fits the bill as far as I can tell.  I am REAL surprised that the one I looked at has had so many repairs with wheel bearings, transfercase seals, etc.  I expect better from a Toyota.  My rusty 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan has held up much better.  So has my 2001 Tracker that had around 300,000 miles and NO major repairs ever.

I will note that my in-laws have a 2010 Ford AWD Escape with a 2.5 four-cylinder and that gets 29 MPG @ 65 MPH. I find that amazing.  TOO expensive though.  They are going to trade it in soon and it only has 35K miles on it.  I suspect I will not be willing to match what a dealer will offer them with trade-in.

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So much for Popular "Science" magazine.  They kind of goofed.   Coachmen 6.2 liter diesel on an S10 chassis? No.  S10 was indeed sold with a little Isuzu 2.2 diesel and was never used in that chassis-mount Coachmen.

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