New owner here! 1981 Sunrader

[linda s]

Yes it seems that's what JD and I are both saying. Get wheels and good tires and service the bearings regularly. I think you'll be fine. Just posted the axle sources so you could look at all options before you decide

Linda S

[zero]

Any tire that can handle the weight in back is fine.   In Europe - on the newer HD Toyotas rated for over 6000 lbs. gross-vehicle-weight - they use single-tires in back in these sizes and do fine.
In the USA, you can buy a Yokohama Y356 in the size LT 195/75 14D and be fine. It is the correct diameter and has a 1710 lb. rating.  That means two tires gives a max rating of  3420 lbs. in the rear.

Here's an example of a guy in a 4-Runner that had his rear axle on one side snap right off - likely from a bad wheel bearing.

"Back in November 2009, I was driving my Toyota 4Runner 3rd generation SR5 and the left REAR Axial fatigued out while going 20 MPH on an entrance to a parkway. As the Axial fell off, I lost control of the vehicle and saw the whole wheel fly off to the other side of the entrance to the parkway "

[zero]

I should of added that it seems most of us here use 185R-14C tires.  Not much difference from the other size I posted but the 185R-14C carries slightly more weight at 1850 lbs. and is slightly smaller diameter then the 195/75-14C.   Many newer Toyota RVs call for 195/75 and maybe it's because it is a slightly more correct diameter?   The 185R-14C is what many Volkswagen camper-vans use and I suspect that is how it became a popular HD choice for Toyotas.

[86rader]

The only possible issue I see with going to a single wheel is the narrower track does make it a bit less stable. This shouldn't be an issue though if you drive sensibly. Well, then there is the fact that it will look goofy.

[Dgillies]

4 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

I should of added that it seems most of us here use 185R-14C tires.  Not much difference from the other size I posted but the 185R-14C carries slightly more weight at 1850 lbs. and is slightly smaller diameter then the 195/75-14C.   Many newer Toyota RVs call for 195/75 and maybe it's because it is a slightly more correct diameter?   The 185R-14C is what many Volkswagen camper-vans use and I suspect that is how it became a popular HD choice for Toyotas.

Right now i have 6 yokohama LT195/75 R14's. so thats a good start. are you suggesting that i use just two in the rear instead of the 4?

[86rader]

If you do go with the single rear, you really ought to go with the correct 8 ply tires. The LT (light truck) really isn't up to it.

[Dgillies]

4 minutes ago, 86rader said:

If you do go with the single rear, you really ought to go with the correct 8 ply tires. The LT (light truck) really isn't up to it.

the yokohama's are load range D which is 8 ply.. so i was told online just now.

[linda s]

There is still the problem of one exploding. Did you run over a huge nail or did the tire explode by itself. If one was faulty the others might be too if they were purchased at the same time.

Linda S

[Dgillies]

Just now, linda s said:

There is still the problem of one exploding. Did you run over a huge nail or did the tire explode by itself. If one was faulty the others might be too if they were purchased at the same time.

Linda S

I must have hit something because the tires are in good condition still. Ether way, im picking up a new one from discount and i will have them check them all. But to clarify the axle issue. Just removing the outside tire of the dualy is sufficient?

[linda s]

I don't know if the inside one is compromised by the addition of the outside dually. Might be OK. When you pick up new tire ask them to check the date code on you other tires. Anything over 6 years is too old. Jim thought his tires looked pretty good too but a couple exploded on him trying to get his rig home. They were just old

Linda S

[Dgillies]

soooo everyones decided that leaving the situation as is is probably fine as far as the faulty axle? haha so confused right now..

[Derek up North]

Before you decide, I'll make 2 points:-

- JD says the 5-lug axle is good for 3300lb. I've no reason to question this. However, many have weight their MH and they're often 6000lb (or more) with roughly 2/3 on the rear axle. That's 4000lb (or more). So before blindly accepting that the standard axle with single 185R14 LR D tires (good for 1875lb each) are good, weigh your year axle. Of course an 18' Sunrader has a better chance of being under 3300lb.

- 1975/75R14 and 185R14 Yokohama Y356 tires are pretty much exactly the same size (based on the published numbers on TireRack.com) The 195/75R14 are rated to carry less but usually cost more So I can't imagine why anyone would chose to buy them. Unless you've already got them, of course!

[zero]

22 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

Before you decide, I'll make 2 points:-

- JD says the 5-lug axle is good for 3300lb. I've no reason to question this. However, many have weight their MH and they're often 6000lb (or more) with roughly 2/3 on the rear axle. That's 4000lb (or more). So before blindly accepting that the standard axle with single 185R14 LR D tires (good for 1875lb each) are good, weigh your year axle. Of course an 18' Sunrader has a better chance of being under 3300lb.

- 1975/75R14 and 185R14 Yokohama Y356 tires are pretty much exactly the same size (based on the published numbers on TireRack.com) The 195/75R14 are rated to carry less but usually cost more So I can't imagine why anyone would chose to buy them. Unless you've already got them, of course!

Seems many have bought 195/75-R14 tires because that is what came OEM on many new Toyota motorhomes and that's what the owner's manual says to use (with some makes)  There are also tire-size databases - like at Walmart that will only offer that size for a newer dual wheel Toyota.

[zero]

The day is never going to come (I hope) when I start replacing tires because they are six-years old as a routine practice.  I think consumers ought to complain more instead of acquiescing about short tire lives.  I've had many tires last 20 years before showing any cracks and I just had a set (on my boat trailer crack badly after 3 years. It is a crap shoot.  Remember when tires used to get recapped and reused?  Many a very old tire-casing was reused.    What we have today is a mix of tire origins and a mix of rubber compounds.  As far as I know, there is no way to predict what tire is going to last how long.  I DO know a general assumption is - rubber actually made in China, as well as plastic, is the worst quality in the world. Not all tires made in China though, use Chinese rubber.

Some states are in "talks" about proposing 10 year tire-date laws.  We will see what happens.  That is 10 years though, not 6 or 7.  At least none I've heard of.  New York has been talking about a 10 year law for years now, but so far  it has not happened. Many tire companies say 6 years and that is no surprise to me.

I am well aware of the recommendations for companies that sell tires, to get new ones every 6 six years.  I don't blame them after fiascos like the Ford-Firestone mud-slinging (on Firestone and Ford and not on consumers).  It is also good business for those companies.  There has been an effort at the Federal level for 15 years now - to come up with some sort of test that is "accelerated."   Like - sticking a new tire in an oven for a few weeks and then predicting how good it will be in 8 years.  I've read likely hundreds of boring pages on this subject and so far - there is no 100% accepted accurate test for predicting tire life.  That is, except the real world tests of actually using tires for X amount of years.  Subsequently, it appears no one really knows what tires are going to last 15 years and what tires will fail in 3 years.  I am fine with "taking my chances" and using tires until they show signs of degradation. 

[jjrbus]

4 hours ago, jdemaris said:

The day is never going to come (I hope) when I start replacing tires because they are six-years old as a routine practice.  I think consumers ought to complain more instead of acquiescing about short tire lives.  I've had many tires last 20 years before showing any cracks and I just had a set (on my boat trailer crack badly after 3 years. It is a crap shoot.  Remember when tires used to get recapped and reused?  Many a very old tire-casing was reused.    What we have today is a mix of tire origins and a mix of rubber compounds.  As far as I know, there is no way to predict what tire is going to last how long.  I DO know a general assumption is - rubber actually made in China, as well as plastic, is the worst quality in the world. Not all tires made in China though, use Chinese rubber.

Some states are in "talks" about proposing 10 year tire-date laws.  We will see what happens.  That is 10 years though, not 6 or 7.  At least none I've heard of.  New York has been talking about a 10 year law for years now, but so far  it has not happened. Many tire companies say 6 years and that is no surprise to me.

I am well aware of the recommendations for companies that sell tires, to get new ones every 6 six years.  I don't blame them after fiascos like the Ford-Firestone mud-slinging (on Firestone and Ford and not on consumers).  It is also good business for those companies.  There has been an effort at the Federal level for 15 years now - to come up with some sort of test that is "accelerated."   Like - sticking a new tire in an oven for a few weeks and then predicting how good it will be in 8 years.  I've read likely hundreds of boring pages on this subject and so far - there is no 100% accepted accurate test for predicting tire life.  That is, except the real world tests of actually using tires for X amount of years.  Subsequently, it appears no one really knows what tires are going to last 15 years and what tires will fail in 3 years.  I am fine with "taking my chances" and using tires until they show signs of degradation. 

When I was a wee lad there was a used car lot on the Corner of  Charleston Blvd and Main St in Las Vegas NV.  I was fascinated watching the guy cut new groves in the tires.  I don't think they were recaps, just worn tires they put new groves in.  Unlikely you could do that with a car tire today.   

I do not have the experience or expertise, training etc to determine if an older tire is road worthy.  The bulk of the tire people I go to I do not trust to put the proper amount of air in my tires or torque my lug nuts and now I find out even with fancy modern equipment they screwed up balancing my tires.  I am not going to trust their judgement as to a tire of unknown origin, and treatment to be safe! 

6 new tires for the Toy can be under $1000,  a blowout can easily do $1000 in damage.

I should add my own tires that I have owned since day one I will keep longer, if they are not checking.    Jim

Edited August 28, 2016 by jjrbus

[jjrbus]

5 hours ago, linda s said:

I don't know if the inside one is compromised by the addition of the outside dually. Might be OK. When you pick up new tire ask them to check the date code on you other tires. Anything over 6 years is too old. Jim thought his tires looked pretty good too but a couple exploded on him trying to get his rig home. They were just old

Linda S

One blew on me on the way home.  In hindsight, I knew the tires were 14 years old and it was stupid of me to drive on them. I made sure I had towing insurance before I left.   I know better and have no excuse for driving on those tires! 

[WME]

These are the retread people, I've used them before. I don't know if they still do passenger tires.  http://www.bandag.com/en-us/index

[bicoastal eric]

do the rear wheels have 5 lugs? 

if so it is not acceptable. period. 

from my research I wouldn't even reccomend removing the "fooly" and using the original axle. it is not a 1 ton full floating axle and it is very likely that it will fail and cause LOTS of damage and hopefully no deaths. 

yes its a shorty, but its fully loaded, big rack on the back, all the bells and whistles, get it weighed and then reconsider using the original axle.

but from everything Ive read, DONT USE THAT AXLE

looks like an awesome rig, and it will be a blast for many years to come but I'm sorry you've got to spend a couple more thousand to get it up to par. perhaps you will fix the clunk while under there. ps the boys at that dealership are pulling opinions out of their you know what and clearly didn't spend the 10 minutes to look up the actual information.

 

[Totem]

I have a 21' 86 sunrader. It had the death axle. the death axle is called such because it may cause death, not because it has. The notion that smoking is safe because its the cancer that kills you is analogous to JDE's claim that the axle has never killed someone. Its just a matter of time before the wrong road condition on a switchback in the mountains is hit with it and...well, take a look at the pictures of what happens when one of these RVS rolls. Not pretty.

Personally there's another advantage to having the full floater 6 lug axle.. LOAD. trust me you will want to attach stuff to the rear bumper and will overload that thing.

you will strap kayaks or chairs or what have you and your weight will get up there.

SO here is the logic path for you:

Get rid of the foolie (by unbolting it from its mate.) get some decent rear tires. Run like that and be careful while you save up and search for the proper 1 ton axle.

Also look for 1 ton front hubs and 7 wheels so you only need 1 spare tire.

Take your time doing this. I would source an axle on craigs list and drive to it get it and bring it home. We see axles on craigs in here for pennys on the dollar.

If you get one from car-part the shipping and yard tard fees will have you well over $1000. Ive seen complete axles with leafs and shock mounts for 250$ in craigs.

On car-part you wont be getting the shock mounts and will then be asking us where to get those... and they werent cheap to fab in my case along with their ubolts.

So theres my two cents worth along with adding that yes in Michigan tire shops up north will still do tire siping ("cutting grooves in the tires") but usually only if there is a decent thickness left on the tread and no warranty whatsoever.

 

[Dgillies]

On August 29, 2016 at 5:54 PM, bicoastal eric said:

do the rear wheels have 5 lugs? 

if so it is not acceptable. period. 

from my research I wouldn't even reccomend removing the "fooly" and using the original axle. it is not a 1 ton full floating axle and it is very likely that it will fail and cause LOTS of damage and hopefully no deaths. 

yes its a shorty, but its fully loaded, big rack on the back, all the bells and whistles, get it weighed and then reconsider using the original axle.

but from everything Ive read, DONT USE THAT AXLE

looks like an awesome rig, and it will be a blast for many years to come but I'm sorry you've got to spend a couple more thousand to get it up to par. perhaps you will fix the clunk while under there. ps the boys at that dealership are pulling opinions out of their you know what and clearly didn't spend the 10 minutes to look up the actual information.

 

I weighed it today, its 4880 And the clunking is just the back whipping up and down with old cabinets on shitty seattle streets.

[Dgillies]

On August 30, 2016 at 6:25 AM, Totem said:

I have a 21' 86 sunrader. It had the death axle. the death axle is called such because it may cause death, not because it has. The notion that smoking is safe because its the cancer that kills you is analogous to JDE's claim that the axle has never killed someone. Its just a matter of time before the wrong road condition on a switchback in the mountains is hit with it and...well, take a look at the pictures of what happens when one of these RVS rolls. Not pretty.

Personally there's another advantage to having the full floater 6 lug axle.. LOAD. trust me you will want to attach stuff to the rear bumper and will overload that thing.

you will strap kayaks or chairs or what have you and your weight will get up there.

SO here is the logic path for you:

Get rid of the foolie (by unbolting it from its mate.) get some decent rear tires. Run like that and be careful while you save up and search for the proper 1 ton axle.

Also look for 1 ton front hubs and 7 wheels so you only need 1 spare tire.

Take your time doing this. I would source an axle on craigs list and drive to it get it and bring it home. We see axles on craigs in here for pennys on the dollar.

If you get one from car-part the shipping and yard tard fees will have you well over $1000. Ive seen complete axles with leafs and shock mounts for 250$ in craigs.

On car-part you wont be getting the shock mounts and will then be asking us where to get those... and they werent cheap to fab in my case along with their ubolts.

So theres my two cents worth along with adding that yes in Michigan tire shops up north will still do tire siping ("cutting grooves in the tires") but usually only if there is a decent thickness left on the tread and no warranty whatsoever.

 

Yea man i will totally make the switch if i can find the proper rear axle. But i dont havr the first clue as to how to identify axles that may work or not. I like the idea of redoing the front also, having only one spare is nice.

i need to find a full floating 1-ton DUALY rear axle? What size? And which ever car i rip this off of would the front axle work too?

[Totem]

13 hours ago, Dgillies said:

Yea man i will totally make the switch if i can find the proper rear axle. But i dont havr the first clue as to how to identify axles that may work or not. I like the idea of redoing the front also, having only one spare is nice.

i need to find a full floating 1-ton DUALY rear axle? What size? And which ever car i rip this off of would the front axle work too?

finding the axles is easy. its a toyota pickup axle - 6 lug. look at the picture of it and if its got 6 lugnuts you are good to go. That simple. Most any year 87-90's toyota "pickup" model axle should work. They were on dually trucks, flat beds, tow trucks, Uhauls and motorhomes. A search on toyota pickup 6lug axle should net what you need. then post back to us when you find one and we can confirm it for you.

[fred heath]

28 minutes ago, Totem said:

finding the axles is easy. its a toyota pickup axle - 6 lug. look at the picture of it and if its got 6 lugnuts you are good to go. That simple. Most any year 87-90's toyota "pickup" model axle should work. They were on dually trucks, flat beds, tow trucks, Uhauls and motorhomes. A search on toyota pickup 6lug axle should net what you need. then post back to us when you find one and we can confirm it for you.

Actually, you need to make sure the axle is a 6 lug from a 2wd pickup. The 4x4 axle although 6 lug, will not work.

[Totem]

12 minutes ago, fred heath said:

Actually, you need to make sure the axle is a 6 lug from a 2wd pickup. The 4x4 axle although 6 lug, will not work.

Or could be made to work, but true. There are 4x4 sunraders in here also that did the conversion. If you were so inclined you could also. And besides you Fred, would spot that 4x4 axle from a mile away when he posts the craigs pics in here yes?

Also, I am not sure that toyota ever made 4x4 dually pickups...perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I could comment to that.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Totem

[Dgillies]

Totem, you suggested a method that would involve finding an axle that i wouldnt have to weld shock mounts onto... I would love to make this as simple as possible. What complications can i expect from a 81 rader?

[Totem]

the shock mount plates from the 5 lug axle wont work on the 1 ton. you will need to either aquire them or make them, not weld them on. they ubolt on.

which means you will need ubolts also.

I got my axle from car-part. it came with no leaf springs (I had to re-use my crappy ones that came with the rv). It also had no shock mount plates or ubolts. So i searched for them but they are no longer made. adding to my fun with car-part several junk yards seemingly claim to have 1 ton 6 lug axles only to ship you a 5 lug . it was maddening. I want to say just a few days ago someone posted a link to a complete axle on craigs in here with EVERYTHING including leafsprings mounts the whole shabang. $250.

[Derek up North]

If you ask a junkyard for the axle from a 1-Ton pickup, they will be quite correct in selling you a 5-lug rear axle.

OTOH, if you ask for the axle from a 1-Ton C&C, you've got a better chance of getting what you need.

This is the 'kit' (NLA) that Toyota put together for the axle recall:-

 

[Totem]

which is why you must ask for the 1 ton 6 lug or actually the HD 6 lug to be even more correct. I did mention 6 lugs. They would always say they had one and some even lied and said they "put their hand on it". when I would insist on seing a photo of the 6 lugs is when they would crumble cause you know me being a "prove it "type guy. So again if you go the car-part route make them prove they have the 6 lug dually via photo prior to giving your credit card info.

[linda s]

Well I found one complete with wheels but San Fran bay area. Got any friends down there who could pick it up for you. Great price for the complete deal

Linda S

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/5751546967.html

[Totem]

where was that thing when I needed it.. could have saved hundreds almost 1000.

[86rader]

wow, that is a hell of a deal. looks like it might even have decent tires.

[linda s]

Anybody got an idea how much these things weigh with the wheels?

Linda S

[Dgillies]

Just talked to the guy! 

questions:

1. what is a "safe" weight for the foolies?

2. How much weight will this "upgrade" add?

3. This new axle is safe because it has dual bearings that wont go dry and break?

4. Is this the beefiest option for an acle swap?

5. How would i go about getting the fromt axle swap?

[linda s]

1)There isn't a safe weight for the foolies.

2) It shouldn't weigh much more than the axle already there. I would guess 50 lbs difference. I'm just guessing of course. I don't remember anyone ever comparing the weight of the 2.

3) It's a full floater like a Dana axle or axles used on heavy trucks. Not about going dry but more about even distribution of weight and separating torque from weight bearing. In semi floater the axle shaft handles both. Stressful

4) Yes

5) I have an 86 and they don't have the 6 lugs in the front. Came with a full floater but that year they didn't use the reverse duallies in the front. It's never bothered me and it's not necessary. You can do that later if you happen to run across the parts

Linda S

[Dgillies]

25 minutes ago, linda s said:

1)There isn't a safe weight for the foolies.

2) It shouldn't weigh much more than the axle already there. I would guess 50 lbs difference. I'm just guessing of course. I don't remember anyone ever comparing the weight of the 2.

3) It's a full floater like a Dana axle or axles used on heavy trucks. Not about going dry but more about even distribution of weight and separating torque from weight bearing. In semi floater the axle shaft handles both. Stressful

4) Yes

5) I have an 86 and they don't have the 6 lugs in the front. Came with a full floater but that year they didn't use the reverse duallies in the front. It's never bothered me and it's not necessary. You can do that later if you happen to run across the parts

Linda S

Sorry, i meant will my load capacity increase after the swap?

and, do you not mind carrying two different spares?