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Rear brakes sticking


Todd Lambiotte

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I have a 1987 Mini-cruiser and the rear brakes are sticking. If i go in reverse they seem to loosen some. The more i drove the worse it got. Took to one shop they claim they wiggled the emergency brake cable and it freed up the wheel and as long as i didn't set it again it would be fine......WRONG.If anyone else has had this problem please help. I am also curious whats the best place to get brake parts for these campers and what type of vehicle do i tell them i need parts for? Every time i tell them i have a Toyota motorhome they look at my like i have three heads and say we don't know how to look that up. Very new to this and any help would be great.

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You order parts for a Toyota dual-wheel cab & chassis truck with a model code ending in 3W.  I have no trouble finding correct parts.  Rock Auto is one of the easiest.  NAPA used to have a good parts database where you could narrow your search to a dual-wheel, cab & chassis truck. No more though.   Brakes can stick when they get brake fluid or gear oil on them. Not the only cause, but certainly a common one.

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The model code, not the VIN is the sole determining factor to get correct parts.  Not always used by parts databases though.  Some Toyota databases will start with a VIN and then  narrow things down with the model code.   You have a HD cab & chassis DLX truck with a model code that ends in "3W."    It gets confusing since parts databases do not use one agreed to standard to show the correct truck chassis.

I don't know what your model code is for your 1987.  Might be the same for an 88, but you'll have to look at your own code-tag. Here are some examples of the other years.

A 1978 Toyota motorhome uses a RN28L-KRA3(W) cab & chassis.

A 1983 motorhome uses a RN44L KRA 3W or a RN44 KDA 3W.  

A 1985 uses a RN55L-KREA 3W or a RN55L-KDEA 3W. 

A 1988 uses a RN55L-KREA3W or RN55L-KRTEA3W or RN75L-KRTEA3W or RN55L-SRA3W or RN55L-SRTEA3W or RN75L,-PDTEA3W

A 1990 uses a VZN85L-TRSREA6 or VZN85L-TWSREA6 or VZN95L-TWSREA6 or VZN85L-TRMREA6 or VZN85L-TWMREA6 or VZN95L-TWMREA6

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4 minutes ago, Todd Lambiotte said:

where do i find the model code ?

If I open the hood on my 1988, the tag is on the upper part of the firewall, facing me - on a metal tag.  Here is what my 88 tag looks like;

1988 minicruiser.jpg

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Great info.. I'm fixing to start the rear brakes now that my fronts are done, i can hear the backs rubbing a bit. unfortunately for me, my rear axles shoes are unknown; it was a uhaul truck donor when I swapped out. how cross compatible are shoes for the rear?

 

Edited by Totem
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Well, here's a question for you. AFAIK, U-Haul in Canada never had Toyotas on the fleet so they're very rare here (US imports) and I know very little about them. So here's the question:- Did U-Haul in the US ever have 22R-E Toyotas on their fleet, or did they hold off until after the V6 came out?

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what does that have to do with getting the shoes that fit proper for rears again? the engine is irrelevant when trying to source brake shoes for an axle that was never on my rig to begin with. in my mind I am thinking that I will need to open up the rear brakes and take the shoes out and take those in to compare because I am not sure, especially if there are several different kind of shoes for the rear 6 lugs. if there is just one size that fits the 6 lugs that would be what I am after..

Seems to me for example the Beck Arnley shown above should work for my 6 lug too, regardless of the 3W code or not.

 

Edited by Totem
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11 minutes ago, Totem said:

what does that have to do with getting the shoes that fit proper for rears again?

 

Well, IF U-Haul only used V6s and IF the V6s don't use the 3W 'secret code', the 3W is irrelevant to your case. :)

I haven't taken the time (nor will I be) to see if there is/are any variations of brake components for the different year 1-Ton/6-lug/FF axles. For many who have had axle swaps (either new 'recall' axles or used) the VIN or '3W' will be of NO use when looking for parts. :)

P.S. No need to be so snarky. :)

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If I was being snarky I would have ended my sentence with a :)

was a genuine question. I've decided to have a go with trying the Beck Arnleys above. Will report back if they work soon.

Edited by Totem
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5 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

As was mine. I took the time to answer yours. A pity you chose to 'answer' mine with nothing to do with the question. :)

No you did not. My question was how cross compatible are the rears. You stated you wouldnt take the time to figure that out and continued obsessing over the 3W comment from JDE. All I am after is the correct parts, not trying to control people's tone of voice or be "right".

:) Save your pity for the those poor souls that have recalled axles rather than just me. We are numerous.

Edited by Totem
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i just cross referenced this part (the 0811109 beck arnley shoes) on amazon... sure enough it fits both the 3W chasis and the 1990 v6 chasis that doesnt have the 3W. you are welcome. :)

Now to see if thats really true and order a pair.

Edited by Totem
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6 minutes ago, Todd Lambiotte said:

can't we all just get along lol and figure out my brake problem

This IS getting along :) you should have seen us when weren't lol.

 

I think the example parts shown should work for your rig whether it has a recalled axle or not for the rears if its got the 6 lug axle. There... I said it... is that a wrong answer? if so I will suffer for it because I like you also need to do my brakes in the rear. I just did my fronts and would heed to take the part numbers that Linda in here recommended if you have 6 lugs up front with the heavy duty front hubs; worked great

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I put new brakes in my 1988 with the factory installed dually and a 22RE.  Also put brakes in the rear of a 1987 dually box-truck.   Also put brakes in the rear of a U-Haul V6 box truck.  Parts were the same for all three.  My comments about the "3W" were for a 1987 with a 22RE.  I also included later model codes for V6 trucks that do not have "3W."  The point is not the "3W" for all trucks. Just about using the model code, whatever it is IF available.  I have not found variations in brake parts for any of the full-floating dually rears, regardless of year or engine in the OEM truck it came from (if not just an update that was stand-alone).

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Toyota part number for 4 clylinder dual wheel  shoes

http://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~shoe~kit~rear~brake~04495-35100.html?Make=Toyota&Model=Pickup&Year=1987&Submodel=&Filter=(d=USA;1=22REC;3=T1;7=RCB;9=HVY;10=WT;12=EFI;13=IV)&Location=rear-drum-brake-wheel-cylinder-backing-plate,,04495

Part number for V6 dual wheel chassis

http://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~shoe~kit~rear~brake~04495-35141.html?Make=Toyota&Model=Pickup&Year=1990&Submodel=2+Wheel+Drive&Filter=(d=USA;1=3VZE;4=STD;7=RCB;8=WT;9=HLF;11=EFI;13=IV6;14=T1)&Location=rear-drum-brake-wheel-cylinder-backing-plate,,04495

This doesn't mean they are necessarily different. Could just mean they changed the part number which Toyota loves to do. I'd be willing to bet they are exactly the same

Linda S

Thank you Totem. I do try and appreciated it very much when it's acknowledged

 

 

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04495-35100  changed to 04495-35180

, 04495-35141

 and 04495-35100, numbers you linked to for four cylinder and V6 Toyota trucks, all cross to the same thing on the global parts interchange (global meaning parts numbers all over the world, not just USA).

 

Used 1985-2001 in Dyna 150, Toyota HiAce and Toyota HiLux Surf and pickup


127 mm (5") radius, 56 mm (2.2") wide, 6 mm thick.


Crosses with Toyota #s 04495-2602004495-35141, 04495-35180, 04497-26020, 04497-26030, 04497-35041, 04497-35070 04495-35071, 04495-35080, 04495-35081, 04495-35090, 04495-35100, 04495-35101, 04495-35120, 04495-35121, 04495-35122, 04495-35140,  , 04495-26021, 04495-26040, 04495-26150, 04495-35031, 04495-35041, 04495-35050, 04495-35051, 04495-35052

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Todd Lambiotte said:

can't we all just get along lol and figure out my brake problem

By now you must be so glad you asked.  It's been slow and these guys haven't talked to each other in a while.  So they are catching up.

Besides the E brake cable, there is only a small amount of things that are likely to be causing your brake problems.  One was already pointed out.  Gear Oil or brake fluid. 

So question time.  How deeply into this have you looked?

Is this an everyday driver for you?  Do you have a place to work on it?  Perhaps a good pair of jack stands?  If the answer to these 3 questions are no, yes & yes, jack it up and take one side apart and have a look.  If you at least open it up, the obvious will be revealed.  It is probably not a bad idea to just do them over entirely so really the questions really are how do I take it apart and what parts do I order as that seems to be more of a mystery than actually fixing them.  Once you get the drums off which is the mysterious part, the rest are like any other drum brake.  Start looking through the full floater axle threads to find all the seals if you do find oil contamination.  If the brake cylinder is leaking then you need to look those up.

So for parts.  It might not be obvious but this forum is littered with brake posts with the same debate and the same part listings.  If you have to purchase local, I suggest you take a look at all the jdemaris posts and part numbers and write them down along with the manufacturers and bring them to the parts store as they will likely be able to cross ref them and if they can't perhaps you are at the wrong parts store.  I am fortunate in that I have an abundance of options for parts places and the competition is fierce so they will go out of there way to figure it out.  They are not just competing with other locals but there is also online.  I have had good luck with Amazon and Rock Auto.  I will price them both out along with the local places and decide my best option.  The rock auto web site is a great tool even if for just doing your own cross referencing.

Hope it all works out. 

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Very weird and very rare, the bias valve is sticking. Even weirder the short rubber hose that between the valve and axle has damage inside and is acting as sort of a one way valve

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I started to look into it only to realize i didn't have a jack big enough to get it off the ground. I have taken it to a shop for now and will update when i get results. I do want to thank everyone for the info on possible problems and how to find parts. Great forum with a lot knowledge.

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9 hours ago, WME said:

Very weird and very rare, the bias valve is sticking. Even weirder the short rubber hose that between the valve and axle has damage inside and is acting as sort of a one way valve

My 1995 Chevy Astrovan did the same thing.  I worked over 40 years as a mechanic and it was the first time I saw such a thing happen.  Flexible rubber hoses to both front brake calipers got deteriorated internally so they acted like one-way check-valves.

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I kind of remember using Ford pickup brake shoes on a Toyota one ton rear years ago just matched them up at the parts store at the time they had no listing for a Toyota one ton.

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7 minutes ago, Todd Lambiotte said:

I had run into this before on front brakes but didn't think there were any rubber lines on the rear

There HAS to be. If the rear-axle moves up and down, something has to flex.

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I gotta say, as a hack and novice in automotive mechanics,I can say its a godsend having jde and linda in these posts. They are the only ones that post part numbers cross references and real world "I get it" mentality even if they have arguments. And when I heed their advice its usually spot on (for parts.)

Thanks ya'll

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40 minutes ago, Maineah said:

I kind of remember using Ford pickup brake shoes on a Toyota one ton rear years ago just matched them up at the parts store at the time they had no listing for a Toyota one ton.

I don't think any Ford full-size truck ever used 10" brakes like the Toyota dually.   None that I can think of.  Ford F100 was 11" and up.  Ford Ranger did have 10" brakes but much narrower then the Toyota brakes shoes.  So I assume Ranger shoes might be made to fit but not have the proper surface area.

 Note that the same brake shoes for a Toyota dually  are also used on some Volkswagen busses.  The air-cooled ones from the 60s and 70s. The VW  part # even crosses over to a Toyota #.
Also on a Nissan D21 truck, and also on a mid-80s Merkur car.

Also -on the subject of Ford, the brake shoes used in a 60s Mustang are very close in size.

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2 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

I don't think any Ford full-size truck ever used 10" brakes like the Toyota dually.   None that I can think of.  Ford F100 was 11" and up.  Ford Ranger did have 10" brakes but much narrower then the Toyota brakes shoes.  So I assume Ranger shoes might be made to fit but not have the proper surface area.

 Note that the same brake shoes for a Toyota dually  are also used on some Volkswagen busses.  The air-cooled ones from the 60s and 70s. The VW  part # even crosses over to a Toyota #.
Also on a Nissan D21 truck, and also on a mid-80s Merkur car.

Also -on the subject of Ford, the brake shoes used in a 60s Mustang are very close in size.

That may have been 20 years or more ago I matched them up from a Raybestos book, size and pictures I kind of remember Ford pickup what ever they are out there for a domestic car/truck also so they should not be hard to find.

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17 minutes ago, Maineah said:

That may have been 20 years or more ago I matched them up from a Raybestos book, size and pictures I kind of remember Ford pickup what ever they are out there for a domestic car/truck also so they should not be hard to find.

I likely have the same  Raybestos picture book. NAPA used to print them out every year for dealers. I have stacks of them and that's what I'm going by with my comments.  I went back as far as 1955 for all Ford trucks and 11" is the smallest I found for a F100.  F250 is 12", etc.  Ford Ranger is the only one I see with 10" brakes but maybe I'm missing something.  My oldest book goes back to 1939.  A 1939 Ford F1 truck uses Raybestos 228PG shoes in front (11" X 2") and Raybestos 55PG in back (11" X 1.75").

Ford DID use some 10" brakes in 1/2 ton vans.  Pretty much the same brakes as were used in 60s Ford Mustangs.  10" X 1 3/4".    Toyota is 10" X 2 3/16" so maybe they could be made to fit, but with less surface area.  

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1 hour ago, Totem said:

I gotta say, as a hack and novice in automotive mechanics,I can say its a godsend having jde and linda in these posts. They are the only ones that post part numbers cross references and real world "I get it" mentality even if they have arguments. And when I heed their advice its usually spot on (for parts.)

Thanks ya'll

Ditto

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Well finally got rv back from the shop. They took it all apart and checked it. Wheel cylinders expanding and collapsing, no leaks, no broken springs, took for a test drive and worked fine. On my way home it worked well for a while. When i got close to home i could feel brakes starting to stick but not as bad as before. Seems like it gets worse the more they are used or the hotter they get. Could this be something in the master cylinder ??? I thought that was more of a loss of pressure when it went bad.

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