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jjrbus

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I'm a bit cautions when it comes to LP.  I have gone over my system twice using soap and water and find no leaks.  I decided to spend the money and go for  leak test.  It used to be they would add a gauge somewhere in the system and watch the gauge for some time.  Things may have changed I don't know?   Anyway I give the local LP place a call and they do not want to do an RV, so I called the only RV place around that seems reasonable and they want $130.   Now $130 for hooking up a gauge and watching it for a few minutes seems a little outrageous for a senior on a fixed income.  

So I started poking around the net and see there are now these hi tech detectors available for as little as $30.   Anyone have any experience with these are they dependable, worth the money? Something better out there?

Here is one from Home Depot    for $25

http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-Gas-Leak-Detector-for-Natural-Liquid-Propane-Butane-and-Methane-Gas-Detection-BCGLD01-X6/202800802?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-VF-PLA-D26P-Plumbing|&gclid=CIyej4Tkp84CFQdehgodJpIL1g&gclsrc=aw.ds

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that device is what the gas people use to detect leaks around a home service line. should work fine and will have a secondary use - you can check your regular home for leaks too.

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The BrassCraft one seems to have mixed reviews regarding quality on Amazon.  There are a couple of other cheap ones with better reviews but still a bit mixed so worth a read through.  Seems to all use the same sensor.  That said having once worked in metallurgy using hydrogen as a cleansing gas, I'm not nearly as bothered by propane as some. We used tincture of green soap on pressure lines as it suds up like crazy.  Usually can find it at pharmacies.

Alternatively, why not build your own gauge setup?

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For years I used Mr Bubbles (kids bubble mix) to check AC systems charged with nitrogen no leaks get by that with out blowing huge bubbles! We used electronic devices also but the bubbles won every time. 

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I like soap and water in a squirt gun for air lines,  the inner idiot is very young!   I had an opportunity to use an expensive high tech device for tracking down an air line leak and was very impressed with it. 

So cannot help but wonder how good these modern doohickeys are.   I read some reviews and either 1 or 5 with little middle ground.

Speaking of reviews, I was looking for something else and there was one bad review,   said they hooked it up to their 12V car and it did not work,   it takes a 1.5V battery! 

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reading and judging the reviewer is key. this is especially important on amazon or harbor freight where we have seen competitors create false reviews, manufacturers fake positive reviews and paid shills. ive seen positive reviews on harbor freight for well known junk product and vice versa where by the reviewer is clearly "special" and probably shouldn't be using power tools at all.

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2 hours ago, Back East Don said:

There are a couple of other cheap ones with better reviews but still a bit mixed so worth a read through.

All I said is it's worth a read through.  Reviews are a matter of perspective and expectations for the most part even taking out any other factors like paid reviews.  So read and make up your own mind.  Your mileage may vary, void were prohibited by common sense.

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1 hour ago, Back East Don said:

All I said is it's worth a read through.  Reviews are a matter of perspective and expectations for the most part even taking out any other factors like paid reviews.  So read and make up your own mind.  Your mileage may vary, void were prohibited by common sense.

Common sense like common decency is no longer common!

I use the reviews as a tool, a guide, I find they are helpful.   Another is when looking for a product is check the refurbished sales.  If there are lots of refurbed ones, then a new one might not be a great buy. I have bought a lot of refurbed, at least it may have been gone over by a tech.

Not sure on the test,  talked with another LP dealer who will not touch an RV.   Guess I could buy a tester and set up a little stand on the Highway   LP leak tests   $99.    Jim

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2 hours ago, linda s said:

Don't you have a gas alarm inside your camper? They have a dial to adjust sensitivity. I think we are all required to have one

Linda S

I do not have a gas detector, did not know it is required?  

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5 minutes ago, jjrbus said:

I do not have a gas detector, did not know it is required?  

I just checked and it's not law in some states but it is in a few. I have been asked at a national park if I had a gas alarm and if it worked. They didn't look I just had to verify that it was there. Here are RVIA standards.

Fire & Life Safety Requirements as specified in NFPA 1192 Standard for RVs.

  • Interior finish flame spread limitations are required.
  • Minimum exit facilities providing unobstructed travel to the outside of the vehicle must be available.
  • Smoke alarms, Fire extinguishers, CO alarms and Propane detectors are mandate based on applicable criteria.
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1 hour ago, linda s said:

I just checked and it's not law in some states but it is in a few. I have been asked at a national park if I had a gas alarm and if it worked. They didn't look I just had to verify that it was there. Here are RVIA standards.

Fire & Life Safety Requirements as specified in NFPA 1192 Standard for RVs.

  • Interior finish flame spread limitations are required.
  • Minimum exit facilities providing unobstructed travel to the outside of the vehicle must be available.
  • Smoke alarms, Fire extinguishers, CO alarms and Propane detectors are mandate based on applicable criteria.

Without looking it up I believe "applicable criteria" apply's here as these did not come standard with LP alarms  and are grandfathered in.  Or did they and are they?  I have smoke and carbon monoxide detector I am adding.  I have always shut the LP off when not using it. 

                                                                                                                            Jim

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I've never seen one without an alarm unless the owners had remodeled. Both of my Sunraders came with them from the factory. Shutting off the propane doesn't do much if that valve malfunctions and leaks. That's why they have alarms. never know when shit goes bad

Linda S

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just curious where the alarm(s) would be on the Indiana built monterey leisure sunraders? mine was farm fresh mint when i got it. no alarms. at least none i am aware of?

Edited by Totem
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I doubt (and hope) there is no state in the USA where a detector is required by law in a used RV.  Such regs usually apply only to new construction and sales - just as various aspects of National Electric Code do.

My "leak detector" is a simple one. I turn off my gas when driving or when the RV is in storage. I've found that if the gas lines are all tight - when I turn the gas back on - the pilot in the refrigerator will light right up. If there is even the slightest leak anywhere - it takes some effort to get that light going since it gets air-bound.

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29 minutes ago, Totem said:

just curious where the alarm(s) would be on the Indiana built monterey leisure sunraders? mine was farm fresh mint when i got it. no alarms. at least none i am aware of?

I don't have access to any Indiana built brochures but the California ones say right on the brochure that they are equipped with LP detectors. Winnebago brochures also list them as standard equipment.

Linda S

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2 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

I doubt (and hope) there is no state in the USA where a detector is required by law in a used RV.  Such regs usually apply only to new construction and sales - just as various aspects of National Electric Code do.

My "leak detector" is a simple one. I turn off my gas when driving or when the RV is in storage. I've found that if the gas lines are all tight - when I turn the gas back on - the pilot in the refrigerator will light right up. If there is even the slightest leak anywhere - it takes some effort to get that light going since it gets air-bound.

Great point.  For me it is the water heater as it is further away but same idea.  The stove is also at that end but has no pilot so must be match (lighter stick) lit.  So gas volume flow is greater than the pilot on the water heater so doesn't make a good indicator. 

I don't think there is a rash of sudden line failures or have all those who have had it happened remained silent?  Loose line fittings coming undone?  I repeatedly see posts from people with a fear of even having propane in the RV.  I took a quick look at the fire statistics (at least those that I could find) and found there is just as many if not more issues related to fires started by the house battery wiring.  Don't see many clamoring to rid themselves of the batteries and all its associated wiring.

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18 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

I doubt (and hope) there is no state in the USA where a detector is required by law in a used RV.  Such regs usually apply only to new construction and sales - just as various aspects of National Electric Code do.

My "leak detector" is a simple one. I turn off my gas when driving or when the RV is in storage. I've found that if the gas lines are all tight - when I turn the gas back on - the pilot in the refrigerator will light right up. If there is even the slightest leak anywhere - it takes some effort to get that light going since it gets air-bound.

Looks like only Alaska requires them by law. Lots of states though require that we carry flares or reflective signs. I didn't know that and never had any in my campers.

Linda S

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59 minutes ago, linda s said:

Looks like only Alaska requires them by law. Lots of states though require that we carry flares or reflective signs. I didn't know that and never had any in my campers.

Linda S

I'd like to see the actual law or regulation as written, in Alaska.  I have my doubts, but who knows?  If it was really codified, it would have to  be written somewhere in Alaska Administrative Code or Alaska Statute. I'd like to see it.  If it exists, I wonder how it applies to RVs that do not even have propane?

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I looked at my original 94 Sea Breeze brochure from National and no mention of LP, carbon monoxide or smoke detector.  Mine was manufactured in 93 by National, I do not see where it was manufactured?

I would think by 93 they would have at least required smoke detectors, but not on the sheet and I do not see anywhere one might have been.  A lp or carbon dioxide detector could have disappeared over the years without a trace  but not a smoke detector.

                                                                        Jim

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I did find a explanation of the RVIA standards. They don't make them up themselves. They are National fire safety codes and they have to abide by them. All RV's have been required to have LP detectors since the early 80's. Don't know when CO2 and smoke detectors came into play.

Linda S

Posted 2011 on another RV forum

The National Fire Protection Association code  Section 1192 (NFPA 1192) sets the fire and living safety standards for RVs and are included in the ANSI standard for RV construction, which is managed by the RVIA.  All RVIA members must adhere to those standards.
LP Detectors have been required in RVs for about 30 years, but the code has been revised numerous times, roughly every 3 years.  NFPA 1192 also includes some of NFPA 58 (LP Gas standards)

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If it is "code", it is not likely not law or enforceable in itself. Just as National Electric Code is not law or enforceable.  Most code-agencies I am aware of dream up things they'd like to become law - and then the Federal government, states, counties, cities, etc. pick and choose which they want to codify into statute or regulation. Now . . it may well be that states, or even the Federal government have adopted codes and made them law - but that is something different.   So, the question remains - at least in my head - pick a state like Michigan.  Was there a  certain year when gas-detectors were required by law, to be standard equipment in all new RVs built and sold to the public for highway use?  And if so, what law is it, where is it filed, and what does it say?   I suspect many of the ideas that the NFPA dream up get adopted by the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and Regulations.

You say all RVs have been required to have LP detectors since the early 80s.  I don't believe it, but have been wrong before. I'd like to see proof. I.e. something written into law somewhere.  Where is it?

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I just read a history of Federal regs as they apply to RVs from 1937 to present. It states that the NFPA mandated LP detectors in RVs when sold new to the public in 1996 (section 3-4-7).

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3 hours ago, linda s said:

All RV's have been required to have LP detectors since the early 80's.

The National Fire Protection Association code  Section 1192 (NFPA 1192) sets the fire and living safety standards for RVs and are included in the ANSI standard for RV construction, which is managed by the RVIA.  All RVIA members must adhere to those standards.
LP Detectors have been required in RVs for about 30 years, but the code has been revised numerous times, roughly every 3 years.  NFPA 1192 also includes some of NFPA 58 (LP Gas standards)

Here is the info direct from the NFPA and it states 1996 was indeed the year they asked for full compliance with all new RVs to have LP gas detectors. Note - they "asked" for it. I have no idea if they ever got it and it became a law.  Regardless, the asking for such a requirement began in 1996, according to them. Note also that they state it is NOT to be retroactive. 

all.jpg

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Well it doesn't specify what requirement for gas detectors had changed. There were many changes and at some point those gas detectors were required to be linked to a tank shut off valve. The shut off valve was also no longer required at a later date.  In fact the date of this document is 2005 and it seems the shut off valves were no longer required by 2006  I have found manuals from Fleetwood and Gulfstream from the 80's that listed the standard gas detectors in the RV and of course my Sunrader and all Winnebago's had them standard. Curious.

Linda S

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10 hours ago, linda s said:

Well it doesn't specify what requirement for gas detectors had changed. There were many changes and at some point those gas detectors were required to be linked to a tank shut off valve. 

Linda S

It says simply a "requirement",not an amendment to an existing requirement.  Taken in the context of the way they write those code/reg-books, it looks clear to me that 1996 is the first year they advised it should be a requirement in new RVs.  Even in the 2005 edition, there is no mentioned of any special hook-up for the LP gas detector.  Just must have the UL1484 listing.  And again - we are talking about recommendations made by NFPA in 1996, not laws.  Here is what the 2005 edition from the NFPA shows for recreational vehicles (new ones only).

2005_1.jpg

2005_3.jpg

2005-2.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

We have owned our Sunland Express since Dec. 2009. We always kept the tank filled with propane.  Never had a smell until last week just outside near the refrig.  or the door where you access the tank.and the tank gauge said it was below empty. We  have never smelled the propane inside since we have owned it,   We came home on wednesday from camping  10 days and let it run all the way empty. I took children's bubble soap and a small  brush and coated all fittings from the refrigerator to the horizontal tank and no bubbles but an hour later I checked them again and there were tiny, tiny bubbles around the nipple from the off valve toward the regulator. The refrig. was still lit. This morning I checked it again, the refrig. wasn't lit  and  I unscrewed the thumb screw cap and there was only a small phheett  then nothing with it taken completely off.

 I am cautious about even having the tank filled again.  I have been told in times past that as the tank is about empty you will smell propane ????  I talked to a place that has propane for you to get fill-ups and was told that to have the tank filled and then check for bubbles around the nipple that the fittings need pressure on them in order to seal ???? then if you put the bubble soap on and it bubbles that you can turn the valve OFF and have the fittings tightened.   Has anyone else had this problem and what did you do about it ?   Below is a picture that shows where I saw tiny little bubbles where the nipple (rusty)  is connected to the valve.

Thank You for my consideration.  "Homer"

DSC00322.JPG

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Yes when I let mine get totally empty it smelled like I had a leak. The guy at the propane place told me the same thing. The oil they use to make the gas smell gets very concentrated and even the faintest trace smells like lots of gas but it's just the oil. Filled my tank and it went away. You did see some bubbles though. Why don't you just put in in the hands of the propane guys. Have them redo the connectors and fill the tank and test it. That is what they are there for. Worth some money to be safe.

Linda S

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7 hours ago, linda s said:

Yes when I let mine get totally empty it smelled like I had a leak. The guy at the propane place told me the same thing. The oil they use to make the gas smell gets very concentrated and even the faintest trace smells like lots of gas but it's just the oil. Filled my tank and it went away. You did see some bubbles though. Why don't you just put in in the hands of the propane guys. Have them redo the connectors and fill the tank and test it. That is what they are there for. Worth some money to be safe.

Linda S

not sure what state the propane guys will do your connectors for you.. they sure as heck wouldn't do mine for me in Michigan. They indemnify themselves.

They made me do it. I can tell you this; if you have a leak in threads theres only one way to fix it right: remove that object, clean male and female threads bare, tape AND use pipe dope and put them back, and torque them well. they wont bubble at all under pressure or otherwise if you do this. Make sure to use proper dope and tape also, rated for propane. All the propane guys will do is tell you if its leaking or not.

Edited by Totem
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Yup I just found that out. My cap for the fill valve was missing so I went to Suburban to get one. Super nice guy gave me a used one but I asked about what to do if I need new valves and he said only RV places do them. The one he recommended already told me they don't do them. They charge you hundreds of dollars to remove the tank and then they send it out. Of course they don't tell you where they send it. So I asked him if I could do it myself and he said no it's not safe. Then I told him my son was a diesel mechanic and was really good at this stuff and he said he wasn't supposed to tell people this but he gave me detailed instructions on how to do it. Then just bring it back to him for the purge. I definitely got the impression that he was pissed that the company doesn't allow him to do his job that he is vey good at. Cool guy

He did say he could put one gallon of propane in and test all the valves and see where the problem was. Might be enough for Homer to know where he stands and go from there. If they do it at one Suburban propane they will probably do that procedure at all of them

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I took my tank to 2 different places and but told them that I had Napa recondition the tank (which was sort of true, they did sandblast it and kiln dry it)..

they checked for leaks found leaks and when i had leaks fixed they filled it no questions asked. I must be super lucky - or cheap. the new tanks though Ouch at 300-$400 yikes.

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Thanks to You who responded.  I had my tank filled this morning. There was nothing in the tank, empty.  They put 9 gallons of propane in, bled off the air and it filled fuller than I have ever seen it , says it's at 95%.  I brought the SLE home, turned the valve all the way on, brushed the bubble soap on  the fittings and there were bubbles !!!  I turned the valve off, used 17/16" wrench to loosen the nut going into the valve, went under the MH and unhooked the flare fitting and pulled all through the access door. Went too our local ACE hardware and bought yellow Teflon tape and some pipe dope and a 1 1/2" brass nipple to replace the 1" one, also the one joining the regulator.   I put 3 layers of tape to each of the male threads and then put some pipe dope on that and screwed the fittings together then re-installed it back to the propane tank and supply line.  I will turn the valve back on in a day or so to let the dope dry some  and brush bubble soap on what I took loose and see if the job is complete.  (in 1986 all they used was the pipe dope , it had hardened and I unscrewed the regulator off with my bare hands)   Hopefully I did all things right and we won't be bothered with the smell anymore.  Here are the 2 picts ( taken at 12:45 AM )  showing the yellow tape.  Thank you for the incentive you gave me to do it myself and save  $$$

PS    the white circle in the last photo is  from my flashlight .

Homer

DSC00328.JPGe

DSC00329.JPG

Edited by Homer
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