jimandtere Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 We are beginning to search for a Toyota based motor home and have found a 1986 model. It has the 6 lug rear axle and the 6 lug front axle. Engine is the 22RE. Originally, this one had a manual 4-speed, but a previous owner installed a 5-speed in it. No leaks, rear kitchen, new frig, generator, new front tires, new front brakes. We don't intend to take this on long trips. And there are not many steep hills around here. 55 mph for us is just fine. My main concern is the 5-speed transmission. I have heard some reports that the 5th gear is not well supported in this transmission and is a weak link(no pun intended). The seller is a mechanic and he said that 5th is basically an overdrive gear and with this transmission, there's not as much shifting between 3rd and 4th. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 If you are talking about a "full size" Toyota RV, e.g. 20-21 feet, and it has the OEM rear-axle ratio - it is likely that 5th gear will be useless much of the time. If a 5 speed was installed AND a gear-change in the rear-axle was made - then it might work nicely. As to 5th being a "problem" in those transmissions? 5th when it exists as an over-drive gear is always weaker then 4th when 4th is direct-drive with no gears used. Does that mean 5th is a problem if used all the time? In a Toyota with a low-power 22RE - I say no. More of a problem is lugging the engine in 5th OD due to improper gearing. Toyota never designed any truck with a 22RE and a 5 speed trans with a full-time load of 5500-6000 lbs. in mind. If they had, the truck would of come new with a 4.56 rear axle instead of the 4.10. It is as easy as this. If it cruises nicely in 5th at the speeds you like to travel, and you are not constantly pushing on the gas pedal trying to keep it going - fine - you will hurt nothing. If it DOES work too hard in 5th, just put it in 4th. 4th in a 5 speed is no different then 4th in a 4-speed. It is the only range that uses no gears. 1,2,3,5, and reverse all use gears meshing and transmitting power. 4th does not. It just locks the input shaft with the output shaft, i.e. "direct drive." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) Welcome to the forum. I'll proffer an opinion. You always have the option to go light on 5th much the same way we with autos use overdrive sparingly like on flats and downhills. How is the rest of the RV? If the price is right and the RV is solid, I would not hesitate based solely on the transmission. Is this deal worth it is another question that you'll need to answer. A search does net some interesting old posts regarding 5 speeds. This one has a number of other links. Edited August 4, 2016 by Back East Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Datsun (Nissan) had micro-mini motorhomes the same size and weight as the Toyotas. My 1984 Datsun, 20 feet long, came from the factory with a 2.4 liter carbed engine, dually full-floating rear, 5 speed trans with OD, and a 4.30 rear and it ran fine in 5th gear. Note the Toyota with manual trans only came with 4.10 in the rear. The Toyota fuel-injected 2.4 liter engine is rated for more horsepower then the Datsun 2.4 liter engine with a carburetor. Datsun Z24 is rated at 103 horsepower max and the Toyota 22RE at 114 horsepower max. Note the 5 speed Warner trans in the Datsun is no more rugged then the Aisin trans that Toyota uses. My point being that if the trans worked well in the Datsun, it can also work well in the Toyota. I wish I'd kept the 1984 Datsun the 5 speed. Selling it was a big mistake. It was quite a bit ahead of Toyota for engineering for an RV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I must have missed the flat part of Tennessee when I stayed there last week... all I saw were mountains that were so steep they had 3rd lanes for trucks and i was lucky to make 35 mph in it most of the time uphill. Those Smokey mountains are pretty sharp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 14 minutes ago, Totem said: I must have missed the flat part of Tennessee when I stayed there last week... all I saw were mountains that were so steep they had 3rd lanes for trucks and i was lucky to make 35 mph in it most of the time uphill. Those Smokey mountains are pretty sharp. Like the old song, what goes up, must come down but point taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimandtere Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 18 hours ago, Back East Don said: Welcome to the forum. I'll proffer an opinion. You always have the option to go light on 5th much the same way we with autos use overdrive sparingly like on flats and downhills. How is the rest of the RV? If the price is right and the RV is solid, I would not hesitate based solely on the transmission. Is this deal worth it is another question that you'll need to answer. A search does net some interesting old posts regarding 5 speeds. This one has a number of other links. The Toyota in question has an L52 tranny with unknown mileage on it. I've talked to Marlin in California about it and they said it was not a bad transmission and for my purposes, would be ok. To keep the engine in good RPM range, 4th gear will probably be used more often with 5th being used at interstate speeds on the flat. This in a 1986 'New World' Toyota. Very rare since they were only in business in 1985 and 1986. All aluminum house structure, block insulation, all aluminum sidewalls, roof, and end caps. Body appears to be in good shape. It has the proper rear axle and 6 lug front as well. 69000 miles. New fridge, 3800 Kohler generator with 106 hours, new front tires, decent rear tires, new clutch. $5400. Does the price sound right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 got pictures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, jimandtere said: The Toyota in question has an L52 tranny with unknown mileage on it. I've talked to Marlin in California about it and they said it was not a bad transmission and for my purposes, would be ok. To keep the engine in good RPM range, 4th gear will probably be used more often with 5th being used at interstate speeds on the flat. This in a 1986 'New World' Toyota. Very rare since they were only in business in 1985 and 1986. All aluminum house structure, block insulation, all aluminum sidewalls, roof, and end caps. Body appears to be in good shape. It has the proper rear axle and 6 lug front as well. 69000 miles. New fridge, 3800 Kohler generator with 106 hours, new front tires, decent rear tires, new clutch. $5400. Does the price sound right? My Itasca is aluminum top and sides. If sealed and maintained all is great. Start getting water infiltration and aluminum will rot out. I've got plenty of pictures that demonstrate the point. Based on the multiple posts on this forum and personal experience, it appear that many just don't understand how to maintain the exterior. Example after example gets posted here with people having tried to stem the tide with silicone caulking and all manor of roof products. I went out looking at a Toyota yesterday for someone and what I found is an example of a RV that just hasn't seen any work up top. The good news for him is that the rot seems limited to one side of the berth and the roof seems solid and untouched. The best of all starting places for restoration. So in answer to your question. If you've inspected it top to bottom and have some idea of what to look for and the house side of this is solid, price seems pretty good considering the new stuff added. A big if though. Get a ladder and look up top and inspect all the seams and all the sealant. You should not see cracking in the lap sealant and should be able to press it with you fingernail and it should still be pliable. What you don't want to see is all sorts of silicone and roofing coatings and especially holes and damage. Once you've evaluated all the seams around the vents and such and it looks good move to the inside. Inside start at the berth as this is problem central for most. Pull the cushions out and look for any previous signs of water and feel for softness in the base and walls. Move from there to inspecting around the vents and AC if it has one and also inside all the upper cabinets. Feel the floor underneath you for a solid base. All that checks out, feel around the base outside where the walls hang down. Make sure all the trim and structure is solid. Then look at all the running gear, frame and even the waste tanks and valves. Everything still looks ship shape? If it passes all of this without issue, ask the seller to put water into the fresh water tank and turn on the propane and get the fridge and hot water heater fired up. It takes me only a short time to get my RV up and going when I pull into a campsite so make sure the seller demonstrates that everything does work. You meet all of that along with a satisfactory test drive. Happily hand over the asking price. It is low miles but original drive train modified if that means anything. Many of us including myself would happily take a stick. Pictures would go a long way for those of us who are good at nit picking but the above should help you on how to evaluate the shape of the RV. Even prices around the Northeast which had been a lot cheaper a few years ago seems to have gone up on these. Edited August 4, 2016 by Back East Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 57 minutes ago, jimandtere said: The Toyota in question has an L52 tranny with unknown mileage on it. I've talked to Marlin in California about it and they said it was not a bad transmission and for my purposes, would be ok. I challenge anyone, including people at Marlin - to name any manual transmission used in a Toyota truck that was inadequate when used as a motorhome. I've seen a lot of different years of Toyota RVs and with lots of things wrong with them - but a faulty manual trans is pretty rare. Marlin deals a lot with people beating the heck out of their trucks and that's a little different use then a trans gets in an RV. The so-called "weak" transmissions tend to have wear problems in lower gears under high load. Many late 70s and early 80s Toyota motorhomes used the same transmission Toyota Corolla cars used and they held up pretty well. When it comes to OD in any of the transmissions - I see little difference in strength in any of the variations used in Toyota trucks with 4 cylinder engines. I had the earliest 5 speed all apart that came in 1978 Toyota trucks (W50) and it has parts similar in size that my Muncie M21 had in my 1964 GTO with a 389 V8. Pretty well built trans in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 By the way, I never saw a New World in real life until this year and since that first one, I've seen six of them. I don't know what is going on. Somebody have a bunch stashed in a barn somewhere and just released them/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimandtere Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) to see pics of the New World rv are going to look at tomorrow go here https://westky.craigslist.org/rvs/5679934525.html Just sent him a ? re:the dresser now where dinette should be & why there is an 8" +/- platform there unless it was just to put the dresser there?? Edited August 5, 2016 by jimandtere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimandtere Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 Last item under chassis & cab on spec sheet says 1500lb lifter kit anyone know what this is for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimandtere Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 4 hours ago, jdemaris said: I challenge anyone, including people at Marlin - to name any manual transmission used in a Toyota truck that was inadequate when used as a motorhome. I've seen a lot of different years of Toyota RVs and with lots of things wrong with them - but a faulty manual trans is pretty rare. Marlin deals a lot with people beating the heck out of their trucks and that's a little different use then a trans gets in an RV. The so-called "weak" transmissions tend to have wear problems in lower gears under high load. Many late 70s and early 80s Toyota motorhomes used the same transmission Toyota Corolla cars used and they held up pretty well. When it comes to OD in any of the transmissions - I see little difference in strength in any of the variations used in Toyota trucks with 4 cylinder engines. I had the earliest 5 speed all apart that came in 1978 Toyota trucks (W50) and it has parts similar in size that my Muncie M21 had in my 1964 GTO with a 389 V8. Pretty well built trans in my opinion. That's really what the Marlin people said. In fact, they use it in some very aggressive off road vehicles. They said it was by no means a deal breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimandtere Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 16 minutes ago, jimandtere said: to see pics of the New World rv are going to look at tomorrow go here https://westky.craigslist.org/rvs/5679934525.html Just sent him a ? re:the dresser now where dinette should be & why there is an 8" +/- platform there unless it was just to put the dresser there?? And the pic in the brochure that jdemaris included is exactly like the one we are going to look at/buy. Even the same color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 11 minutes ago, jimandtere said: to see pics of the New World rv are going to look at tomorrow go here https://westky.craigslist.org/rvs/5679934525.html Just sent him a ? re:the dresser now where dinette should be & why there is an 8" +/- platform there unless it was just to put the dresser there?? If the dinette was in the area where the wheel well is located, one of the bench bases would have covered it. So perhaps that is why the riser under the dresser. Lifter might be air bags (someone might chime in). I zoomed in as best I could on the phone pictures in the ad. As I indicated the area to really look over is that front berth inside and out. On the drivers side front it almost appears slightly bulged in that corner. Would not be uncommon but you want to make sure there is no rot or damage inside and the outside skin is solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimandtere Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 I do not see a rear bumper on rv. See pic #2 in ad. Specs say rear bumper is standard issue. Any red flags here? The rear end looks to being very good condition. Could it be hiding down below curve?? https://westky.craigslist.org/rvs/5679934525.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, jimandtere said: I do not see a rear bumper on rv. See pic #2 in ad. Specs say rear bumper is standard issue. Any red flags here? The rear end looks to being very good condition. Could it be hiding down below curve?? https://westky.craigslist.org/rvs/5679934525.html Wouldn't be doing much good hiding underneath so I'm going to go with missing. I fabricated a new bumper for mine using a 4" box tube and an aluminum extrusion bumper cover. Wasn't hugely expensive but would require some fabrication. The up side is that you can store the waste hose inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimandtere Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) very nice! Will send you my order if we bring home. Edited August 5, 2016 by jimandtere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimandtere Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) If we buy, we will put an awning on. The awning was optional & this rv never had one. Any suggestions. We've had the carefree by colorado & maybe a dometic but never a zip dee. Edited August 5, 2016 by jimandtere typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 15 hours ago, Back East Don said: My Itasca is aluminum top and sides. If sealed and maintained all is great. Start getting water infiltration and aluminum will rot out. I've got plenty of pictures that demonstrate the point. Based on the multiple posts on this forum and personal experience, it appear that many just don't understand how to maintain the exterior. Example after example gets posted here with people having tried to stem the tide with silicone caulking and all manor of roof products. I went out looking at a Toyota yesterday for someone and what I found is an example of a RV that just hasn't seen any work up top. The good news for him is that the rot seems limited to one side of the berth and the roof seems solid and untouched. The best of all starting places for restoration. So in answer to your question. If you've inspected it top to bottom and have some idea of what to look for and the house side of this is solid, price seems pretty good considering the new stuff added. A big if though. Get a ladder and look up top and inspect all the seams and all the sealant. You should not see cracking in the lap sealant and should be able to press it with you fingernail and it should still be pliable. What you don't want to see is all sorts of silicone and roofing coatings and especially holes and damage. Once you've evaluated all the seams around the vents and such and it looks good move to the inside. Inside start at the berth as this is problem central for most. Pull the cushions out and look for any previous signs of water and feel for softness in the base and walls. Move from there to inspecting around the vents and AC if it has one and also inside all the upper cabinets. Feel the floor underneath you for a solid base. All that checks out, feel around the base outside where the walls hang down. Make sure all the trim and structure is solid. Then look at all the running gear, frame and even the waste tanks and valves. Everything still looks ship shape? If it passes all of this without issue, ask the seller to put water into the fresh water tank and turn on the propane and get the fridge and hot water heater fired up. It takes me only a short time to get my RV up and going when I pull into a campsite so make sure the seller demonstrates that everything does work. You meet all of that along with a satisfactory test drive. Happily hand over the asking price. It is low miles but original drive train modified if that means anything. Many of us including myself would happily take a stick. Pictures would go a long way for those of us who are good at nit picking but the above should help you on how to evaluate the shape of the RV. Even prices around the Northeast which had been a lot cheaper a few years ago seems to have gone up on these. Agree^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 10 hours ago, jimandtere said: If we buy, we will put an awning on. The awning was optional & this rv never had one. Any suggestions. We've had the carefree by colorado & maybe a dometic but never a zip dee. Never had one so I've no suggestion for you other than perhaps you are getting a bit ahead of yourself. It's natural but don't let the enthusiasm blind you. Get past the inspection. Plenty of people here will assist you with the awning and there are plenty of old post on the topic if you do a search. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimandtere Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) Well, as Wayne Carini says, "It's about the chase". We started at 8AM, got 1 hour and 15 minutes into a 3 1/2 hour drive, only to realize we had left the money at home. 2 1/2 hour delay! Daughter says, "Dad, it's a sign". Turned off I 40 onto TN 127 only to find ourselves in the middle of a 30 mile long yard sale. Yep, you read it right. If you lived in TN, you would understand. Another 'sign'. Finally got past all the yard sales only to find ourselves in extremely hilly, narrow, windy roads. Damn Garmin. Another 'sign'. Spend 45 minutes trying to find the guys house number he gave us, including a brief visit with two guys straight our of "Deliverance", only to find he texted us directions to a place we had already passed. Bad cell phone service, etc. Another 'sign'. Finally found the Toyota. It was OK from about 50 yards. Any closer and you wanted to turn around and run. From the drain in the shower that went directly to the ground to the water damage in the front cap, to 15 year old rear tires and an engine compartment that was filthy--you get the picture. Another 'sign' or 2 or 3 or 4. But, it was worth the trip. We now know that the space would work for us. We now know we don't want a wet bath. We now know that we want something as close to original, not something some one has 'improved' with things that really don't work at all, and we know that we don't want something that has had at least 6 (very likely more) owners and has a fishy Car Fax report. So, "On with the chase". BTW, returned home a mere 12 hours after we started. Needed to stop and get a couple of stiff drinks close to home. Edited August 6, 2016 by jimandtere more info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) I went to look at an "excellent condition" RV one time that had a hole chopped in the side and a house door installed. I could go on and on. Just after a while you get tired of driving many miles to find junk. Of course if you don't go it will be an under-priced gem! RV seller terms AC needs charge = AC is broken and will take many $$$$$ to fix Tires have lots of thread= Tires are 20 years old and ready to explode, rims may be rotted also. Gets 20 mpg! = 12 on the highway and 8 in the city 12+8= 20 Selling for friend/relative = bought it dirt cheap and trying to make a killing on it, registration likely not in their name. Good luck Jim Edited August 6, 2016 by jjrbus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Don't think your going to find one without a wet bath. I think all the 21 footers had full bathrooms. The shower shouldn't have drained onto the ground. There was supposed to be a holding tank there. Just cause it's got a wet bath doesn't mean you have to use it but trust me you have girls. It's going to get used no matter what they say now. Hope you have better luck next time. Yeah there are some pretty nasty ones out there that people think are gold. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 3 hours ago, jimandtere said: BTW, returned home a mere 12 hours after we started. Needed to stop and get a couple of stiff drinks close to home. I hear you. Some people get lucky and stumble upon them, others spend a lot of time searching for the right one. Most settle for something in between. Keep looking and you'll learn more each step along the way. I do an expanded Craigslist search at least 4 times a day. Stay vigilant and try to get in as early as possible because the right one will sell in a heartbeat. One way to help is to ask the seller to send you more detailed pictures. After you've looked at a couple of these rough ones, you develop a sixth sense just looking at the pictures. Stay in touch here. We are always happy to lend advice and encouragement. More than a few of us here can relate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Took me 2 years to find mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 And you guy's thought I was exaggerating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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