New to site, needing some technical help and advice

[Bryan C]

I have recently purchased a 1983 Sunrader 18ft full floating rear axle and 5 spd tranny.  I have been RVing for past 20 years, Ive had everything from travel trailers, to class Cs and As and currently still have a 37 Ft Holiday Rambler with Cat Diesel Pusher.  So about 7 years ago I sold my last Toyota MH, a 1984 Toyota Sunrader 21' with a 4 spd that I had owned for about 4 years and used it for long family road trips and even used it for traveling when I was doing travel nursing.  I really liked it since it was all fiberglass and manual transmission, but it was a bit ragged and needed complete restoring inside and out, mechanically it was excellent, but man was it ever UGLY.  LOL. With the 4 spd I usually got about 14 mpg running 65 mph.   I didnt have the time to put into it at the time so I sold it, however always regretted it.  So recently I moved across country and the new town I moved into about a year and a half ago, I noticed the little 1983 Sunrader 18' sitting, and have been watching it for last year and a half, and saw that during that time it had never been moved.  So finally I knocked on the door one day, wife told me she would have her husband call me.  He called me later on that week, told me that it hadn't been started for at least 3 years.  I told him that I would buy it as is and I would be the one to worry about getting it running again, so he made me a more than fair price and I agreed to buy it.  So I loaded up my tool box, a hot battery, battery charger, starting fluid and went that way.  He had already given me the keys and told me to help myself.  I got there, put the battery in, took the top of the air cleaner off prepping to prime with starting fluid, but I thought, just for the heck of it I'll try it first.  I got in pumped the gas 4 times, it began spinning over and SHAZAAAAAM, it didn't turn over 4 times and it fired right up and didn't peck, sputter or anything and ran smooth as silk.  I looked at the odometer and it was showing 30,000 miles, (I later asked owner if that was original, he stated yes, he had had it since 2000, it had very low miles when he bought it)  So I aired up 4 flat tires and drove it about 4 blocks home. 

So I got it home and began to put some elbow grease, little soap and water and it being a New Mexico vehicle it began cleaning up like new.  He had placed cardboard over all of the windows inside so the sun wouldn't fade the interior.  Even the dash is perfect, not a crack anywhere.  It hadn't been tagged in over 5 years.  The interior is in pretty good shape except for some normal wear and tear, and some broken cabinet latches.  So my wife asked if we could take it on a big road trip and tour the pacific coast in about 6 weeks.  I thought about it for a little bit and decided, you know what I think I can get it together in time and get it all sorted out before the 3700 mile round trip.  So first off I ordered 6 new Hankook 8 ply tires off of amazon and got them installed.  I drove it around town a few times and then set out on a 200 mile interstate trip.  I filled the gas all the way until it began to spill out.  We drove it at 70 mph and pulled some pretty good grades, it did bog down some of course.  I am at 7000 ft elevation and went to around 5000 elevation and back.  It ran like a champ except it wanted to run at the 3/4 mark on the heat temp guage when pulling hills.   When I pulled back into the same gas station when I got back I filled the tank spilling over again, it took a little over 10.6 gal for 203 miles,  done the math and WOW I got 18.9 mpg.  The 5 th gear is apparently the trick, my old 21' Sunrader 4 spd got 14 mpg.  The borderline overheating is one of my issues.  I have changed the clutch fan, and I still have the same issues I have read some of your previous topics on this and am going to try the 2 stage thermostat next.  My antifreeze looks like brand new.  As long as I dont go over 60ish it runs 1/2 way or less on temp guage. 

Other issues I have been sorting is. Refrigerator dosn't cool, so I ordered a new 3 way from PPL, No Roof Air. I ordered a new Coleman Mach 1 Powersaver 11,000 BTU which I plan to power with a Honda eu2000, I already purchased one used (89 hrs on it, like new)  it also came with an extended run external gas tank.  Water pump won't pump, so I ordered a new Surflo that pulls low amps.  The PO didn't winterize it so I am pretty much having to replace most of the plumbing.  (hopefully I'll wrap this up tonight.  Since the we are leaving in a few weeks to travel the California pacific coast highway (we will start in San Francisco after we stop at Yosemite),  its going to be hot.  The dash air wasn't working, I got it changed over to 134a and leak tested, and now its ice cold.  I am going to buy a aluminum box to put into my reciever hitch, this after I ventilate it properly will house my generator and extended run tank, and maybe a few lawn chairs and small grill, should be well under 200 lbs total.  I am changing all of my light fixtures to new led power saving fixtures that I ordered off amazon. 

So my two issues. 

Over heating, how many of you are running 3 core radiators, do they help, how much are they typically, and any suggestions where to buy one?, and do the 2 stage thermostats work?

Roof air, I found the wiring for the AC in the vent and its just got a bunch of slack under the rear dinette seat, can I wire this up to my existing power converter?  did all sunraders have the proper box that will accept adding a roof air later? 

Edited July 21, 2016 by Bryan C
Added pics

[Maineah]

Your load center has 4 breaker slots check and see if one is a 20 amp if so it will be for the AC. Some used a 30 amp main that took up two slots leaving you with one 15 amp and one 20 amp breaker. It is wired as a sub panel so the neutral (white)  lands on the insulated buss bar the ground lands on the box  ground it will require a #12 wire. 

[Back East Don]

Let me get this straight.  You had a Sunrader but it was getting worn out so you got rid of it?  Then you found a hardly used one for cheap?  I don't think I like anything about this post.

One of the greatest features of this forum beside a helpful community is the search feature.  I say this because it is rather slow around this time of year and I can't help you much.  (Aren't you glad I posted?)  The good news though is there is tons of info regarding radiator, thermostats, cooling and overheating.  Even some recent posts in the engines and transmissions section below.  Oh, welcome to the forum although I'm not convinced I like you yet.

[Bryan C]

So Back East Don, the sunrader that I started out with served me well for 4 years or so the. I quit travel nursing and I needed to sell it to get me a gas sipping daily driver car that I could commute 120 mile round trip 6 days per week.  I sold it over 7 years ago.  The old sunrader was cosmetically worn out and needed completely redoing inside and out, someone had done a very poor job fiberglassing over the front cabover windows and they were leaking and it was just too much work which I neither had the time, $, or talent to fix. I also forgot to mention that it had the 1/2 ton axles and the poorly designed wheels that I had no idea how to fix.  The biggest thing it had going for it was mechanically it was awesome.  So I rehomed it to a new toyota motorhome enthusiast.  I always regretted getting rid of it, and never dreamed that I would ever find another sunrader, especially one as cherry as this one.  It's my forever toyota sunrader.  I have already sank about a extra $4k over the initial purchase price.  I now have more time, money, and resources to invest into owning a toyota motorhome.  

Edited July 22, 2016 by Bryan C
Forgot to add a detail

[Bryan C]

1 hour ago, Maineah said:

Your load center has 4 breaker slots check and see if one is a 20 amp if so it will be for the AC. Some used a 30 amp main that took up two slots leaving you with one 15 amp and one 20 amp breaker. It is wired as a sub panel so the neutral (white)  lands on the insulated buss bar the ground lands on the box  ground it will require a #12 wire. 

I will try to get some good pictures of the converter box tomorrow.  Maybe you can help me identify it.  I appreciate your help.  Many thanks Maineah!

[Back East Don]

10 hours ago, Bryan C said:

and never dreamed that I would ever find another sunrader, especially one as cherry as this one.

Just go ahead and rub it in. 

I like to kid, a lot.  Seriously, great find. 

In mine, the wiring that was left over from the long gone AC unit was just standard household romex type wire (black, white and bare).  If yours is the same, no reasons I can see not to use it

[Bryan C]

2 hours ago, Back East Don said:

Just go ahead and rub it in. 

I like to kid, a lot.  Seriously, great find. 

In mine, the wiring that was left over from the long gone AC unit was just standard household romex type wire (black, white and bare).  If yours is the same, no reasons I can see not to use it

Sure enough it is just white Romex that was folded up nice and nearly between my hot water heater and the back wall of the coach, I haven't pulled the vent yet but I'm pretty certain, (at least I hope) that the other end will be inside the vent hole.  The power converter is a bit different than what I'm used, it has these three odd little breakers that push in and out.  I'm going to take some good pictures this evening when I get home, and hopefully you gents can give me some guidance, also I am a little concerned that my power cord isn't heavy enough to carry the AC, however it is still pretty big , but it has a regular house plug on the end instead of the usual 30 amp Rv plug and it looks factory.  The cord seems to be a decent size gauge, however very small compared to my large cords on my diesel pusher which has the 50 amp service, so maybe the cord is fine, it just puzzled me about the lack of the RV plug end

I am thrilled with this little yota and I'm making it my own and it's like a time capsule with the mechanical and the way it drives and the condition of the body.  

Again thanks for all of your help!

Edited July 22, 2016 by Bryan C

[zero]

The cord on my 1988 Minicruiser with AC is 12 gauge. I've noticed that many RV cords look huge on the OD but that is due to lots of added protective filler.  Even 14 gauge wire in a 20 foot long cord can easily handle 15 amps and an AC unit, although 12 gauge and a 20 amp circuit is more the norm.

The push-button breakers are common in B-W power-centers of 80s vintage. Those push-button breakers are "I-T-E TRI-shield."  Often there is a P1520 and a P115GF with ground-fault protection.

[zero]

Here's some photos of the mid-80s B-W power-center.

[zero]

The Basler ES series from late 70s, early 80s also has push-button AC breakers.

[Bryan C]

39 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

The cord on my 1988 Minicruiser with AC is 12 gauge. I've noticed that many RV cords look huge on the OD but that is due to lots of added protective filler.  Even 14 gauge wire in a 20 foot long cord can easily handle 15 amps and an AC unit, although 12 gauge and a 20 amp circuit is more the norm.

The push-button breakers are common in B-W power-centers of 80s vintage. Those push-button breakers are "I-T-E TRI-shield."  Often there is a P1520 and a P115GF with ground-fault protection.

Thanks jdemaris, I appreciate the help, I hope once I post pics of mine it will be identifiable.  Do you know how I can identify the guage of my power cord?

[Back East Don]

2 hours ago, Bryan C said:

I am thrilled with this little yota and I'm making it my own and it's like a time capsule with the mechanical and the way it drives and the condition of the body.

Still really not warming up to you.

18 minutes ago, Bryan C said:

Do you know how I can identify the guage of my power cord?

You can always measure it.  Here is a size chart with amperage. 10 gauge is .1019 " and 12 is .0808 "

[zero]

I've yet to see a cord that was not marked on the OD.  Usually embossed in the rubber (or plastic).

[Bryan C]

14 hours ago, jdemaris said:

The cord on my 1988 Minicruiser with AC is 12 gauge. I've noticed that many RV cords look huge on the OD but that is due to lots of added protective filler.  Even 14 gauge wire in a 20 foot long cord can easily handle 15 amps and an AC unit, although 12 gauge and a 20 amp circuit is more the norm.

The push-button breakers are common in B-W power-centers of 80s vintage. Those push-button breakers are "I-T-E TRI-shield."  Often there is a P1520 and a P115GF with ground-fault protection.

Here are some pictures of my converter box

[Back East Don]

From zooming into the picture with the buss bar, the white stranded wire that is the feed looks larger than the solid wires that feed out to the outlet.  The outlet wire can 14 gauge as those are 15 amp outlets.  In order to support a 30 amp load, the feed wire coming in needs to be 10 gauge.  I'd be surprised if it wasn't but peace of mind comes from knowing.  The plug should be changed from the 15 amp edison house plug that is on there now.  Most of the Home Depot kind of places will have a 30 amp RV plug or you could order one online.

A quick note:  Many here have replaced the old power center.  The main advantage is that the DC charger side of these old ones are particularly hard on batteries.  If you intend to plug the RV in for even moderate periods at a time, it might be worth considering.  If not replaced, the second best thing is to keep tabs on the water level of the battery as the old charger tends to boil the batteries.  As you can see for yourself, there are not too many circuits.  If replacing, I suggest getting wire label tape and marking all the wire circuits before disassembly.  In the picture below I used a label printer but even white electrical tape (Home Depot carries 3M in white) and a sharpie works.  The picture also is of one of the newer power centers.  I was replacing my dinette and was prepping for the new base.

[zero]

Yes, I guess correctly.  The old B&W power center with the I-T-E breakers for 120 volts AC. I have several of them.  Nothing wrong with them.  

[Back East Don]

25 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

Nothing wrong with them.

AC side sure.  I'm not big on the 3 amp charge rate for battery charging on the DC side. If you are plugged in for the entire day or charging more by the alternator when driving, you can get by.  Also, is there something different about this model that doesn't warrant the battery boiler tag? 

Full disclosure, I didn't pay too much heed to all the talk until my first battery was ruined.  I then replaced both.  I could have just replaced the battery and been vigilant with how I used the charger and checked the water level often but I'd rather be able to not.

[zero]

The BW is not designed as a "battery boiler" like some were.   That 3 amp rating is the MAX charge rate and it tapers back to a milliamp "maintain" rate. Not saying I'd trust it for being plugged in all the time, but it's kind of a moot point for my uses.  I have one battery in front for cranking and two in back as "house" batteries.  I want them all maintained when in storage, so I use a dual-output maintainer - totally separate from my power-center/converter.

[Bryan C]

4 hours ago, Back East Don said:

From zooming into the picture with the buss bar, the white stranded wire that is the feed looks larger than the solid wires that feed out to the outlet.  The outlet wire can 14 gauge as those are 15 amp outlets.  In order to support a 30 amp load, the feed wire coming in needs to be 10 gauge.  I'd be surprised if it wasn't but peace of mind comes from knowing.  The plug should be changed from the 15 amp edison house plug that is on there now.  Most of the Home Depot kind of places will have a 30 amp RV plug or you could order one online.

A quick note:  Many here have replaced the old power center.  The main advantage is that the DC charger side of these old ones are particularly hard on batteries.  If you intend to plug the RV in for even moderate periods at a time, it might be worth considering.  If not replaced, the second best thing is to keep tabs on the water level of the battery as the old charger tends to boil the batteries.  As you can see for yourself, there are not too many circuits.  If replacing, I suggest getting wire label tape and marking all the wire circuits before disassembly.  In the picture below I used a label printer but even white electrical tape (Home Depot carries 3M in white) and a sharpie works.  The picture also is of one of the newer power centers.  I was replacing my dinette and was prepping for the new base.

 

3 hours ago, jdemaris said:

Yes, I guess correctly.  The old B&W power center with the I-T-E breakers for 120 volts AC. I have several of them.  Nothing wrong with them.  

So do you gentlemen see a way that I wire in my new AC when it gets here this week.  It is the Coleman Mach 1 11,000 btu power saver so I can run it off of my er2000 Honda generator.   I probably will eventually try to upgrade to a newer power source, but right now I am getting under a time crunch because I leave in just under 2 weeks for my big Pacific coast highway road trip.  Me the wife and two kids are going.  I am going today to buy an aluminum box to mount to my 2" reciever hitch.  I am going  have to cut some vent holes in it so I can run the generator while traveling so the kids in the back don't burn up being in the grueling desert heat in August in Arizona and Nevada especially.  

Are either of you running a manual tranny with your yotas, and if so can you cruise at a solid 65-70 without running really warm/hot.  Are you running stock thermostat or have you upgraded to the dual temp thermostat.  Have you upgraded your radiators, and if so where did you buy them from, I have been through the archives of the site and a few sources of radiators that a few have listed are not available.  

So here is what I found upon inspection of my power cord

[zero]

9 minutes ago, Bryan C said:

 

So do you gentlemen see a way that I wire in my new AC when it gets here this week.  It is the Coleman Mach 1 11,000 btu power saver so I can run it off of my er2000 Honda generator.   

Are either of you running a manual tranny with your yotas, and if so can you cruise at a solid 65-70 without running really warm/hot.

I see your cord is 14/3.  Rated for 1800 watts assuming it is wired for 120 VAC.  I have no idea what kind of male plug you have.  You just have to find a way to plug it into an outlet on the Honda. Not sure if you need an adapter or not.  I'd just wire the roof-top AC directly to one of those 15 amp breakers.   They are slow-blow and will handle anything that Honda can make.  That Coleman Mach 1 likely needs around 2200 watts at first start.  A 15 amp breaker can handle over 3000 watts for a second or two.  Not so sure about the Honda, but guess you will find out. Honda says it is good for short surges of 2000 watts and I don't know how far above that it can make.  

Not to intentionally confuse things - but the 14-3 mark throws me off a bit. Maybe my brain is not working today.  That usually means three insulated wires plus a ground, i.e. four wires inside.  It also means  enough wires capable of carrying two 15 amp circuits.  I have no idea how your's is wired.   If it's just three wires inside total, and NOT four like a modern wire would be - it is just one hot leg, one neutral, and one ground.   If it actually has four wires inside - I'm a little confused.  Four wires would usually mean 120 volts and 240  volts and that would not make sense with what you have.  Or in a even more esoteric case - two 120 volt circuits with a shared neutral.

I can drive my 20 foot, 1988 Toyota RV all day long at 65 MPH in 90 degree F weather and it does not overheat (gets hot though).  Mine has an automatic and a manual trans version will certainly run cooler and more efficiently.  If I run mine at 65 MPH - I get maybe 11 MPG if I'm lucky.  It's bad enough at 55-60 MPH.  I say "bad" simply because I was expecting better when I got this thing.

[BobBeery]

The cord on my 90 Dolphin is marked 10/3.  There are no bare wires in it, just 3 insulated wires.  One black, one white, and one green.  I presume the green is used for the ground wire.  A #10 solid would be too stiff so these must be stranded wires.  Maybe that is why the third wire is insulated?

[zero]

19 hours ago, BobBeery said:

The cord on my 90 Dolphin is marked 10/3.  There are no bare wires in it, just 3 insulated wires.  One black, one white, and one green.  I presume the green is used for the ground wire.  A #10 solid would be too stiff so these must be stranded wires.  Maybe that is why the third wire is insulated?

Yes, that makes sense.  Just not something I ever thought hard about. l've got a dozen cords here from RVs.  10, 12, and 14 gauge and all have three insulated flexible wires inside the bundle. None of mine have the extra "3" on the outside to indicate wire count; just the wire-gauge.  So the 10/3 designation threw me off at first.  In house wiring, if someone wanted some 10/3 NM or UF cable - it would have three insulated wires plus a bare ground in most cases, like in this image.

By the way, I have a 100 foot extension cord I made years ago from some old 10 gauge solid-copper NMB Romex (the real stuff from Rome NY) and it is VERY unflexible. It is murder to roll up but does make a nice long cord with low voltage drop.

[Bryan C]

On July 23, 2016 at 7:26 AM, jdemaris said:

Yes, I guess correctly.  The old B&W power center with the I-T-E breakers for 120 volts AC. I have several of them.  Nothing wrong with them.  

So I have been looking at the converter box and I only have two breakers, the top one is a plastic plug, the second one is labeled receptacles and the third is labeled convertor.  So unless I am just not understanding it or I am looking at it wrong, (I know very little about wiring) but it looks like I am going to have to take the plug out and place another converter in that hole to wire my new roof AC to, in addition I think I am going to have to upgrade my 14-3 power cord to at least a 10 guage cord.  My converter is labeled as a 25 amp box, will that be sufficient with the addition of the Coleman Mach I 11,000 btu power saver roof AC.  I have been searching the Internet and I am not having any luck finding a breaker like what I have to add to my box.  Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks 

[Bryan C]

On July 23, 2016 at 7:26 AM, jdemaris said:

Yes, I guess correctly.  The old B&W power center with the I-T-E breakers for 120 volts AC. I have several of them.  Nothing wrong with them.  

So I just noticed you called them ITE breakers, I searched for them in Amazon and these are what I found, is this what I need???

[Kale]

Not sure if it helps, but I have the same panel in my Toy except the the converter and receptacles are on one breaker (15 amp) and the A/C is on the other (20 amp). Based on your picture, it doesn't look like there's a hole to attach another breaker where the blank is. I would guess that the connection to the left of the blank is shore power. You might considering wiring yours like mine, with the converter and receptacles sharing a breaker.

[Bryan C]

1 hour ago, Kale said:

Not sure if it helps, but I have the same panel in my Toy except the the converter and receptacles are on one breaker (15 amp) and the A/C is on the other (20 amp). Based on your picture, it doesn't look like there's a hole to attach another breaker where the blank is. I would guess that the connection to the left of the blank is shore power. You might considering wiring yours like mine, with the converter and receptacles sharing a breaker.

If I got you better pics do you think you could tell me whether or not mine are wired together and whether or not I could pull the plastic plug out and put in a new breaker?

[zero]

I must be missing something.  Your panel already has two 15 amp breakers. One for the outlets and one for the converter.   Why do you want more breakers?  Just use the outlet circuit for your air-conditioner.

[zero]

I'll add you do NOT want to put a 20 amp breaker in there anywhere.  It does not match the ampacity of 14 gauge wire.  15 amp is what is called for and you already have two of them.