Unfriendly Toyota New World sighting

[zero]

I came across a kind-of beat-up looking Toyota RV a few hours ago.  Sitting in a Walmart parking lot with a flat tire.  Middle of sunny day, all windows wide open, but no one seemed to be there.  So I got out of my truck to take a few photos and yelled "anybody home" at the same time.  Well?  There WAS someone inside.  Seems a very unfriendly guy from Tennessee.  Note this wasn't in some remote area of the parking lot. It was right in front of the main entrance so I did not think the users/owners were seeking any sort of privacy.  After getting what sounded like a very unfriendly reply to my "anybody home", I asked the guy if he knew he had a flat tire.  Silly me. I thought he may have parked there to sleep and didn't know the tire went flat.  He said "yes, I know, I know what I'm doing, and I do NOT need any help."  I then asked  him if he was planning on having the flat fixed at Walmart and he got even more angry and said "why do YOU want to know."  OK, I gave up trying to ask questions or have any conversation.  I had asked about Walmart because I know they do NOT have the know-how to fix a flat on a Toyota RV or even replace a tire or a valve. Not at THIS Walmart.  My shop is only a mile from this guy (with many good mounted 6 lug tire and wheels) and there is also a good tire store who CAN work on Toyotas just 2 miles away.  But I gave up and left.  This guy REALLY had a rod up his a**.  Felt like being back in New York instead of here in northern Michigan. 

Note the interesting tire-valve-extensions on the duallies in back. Got passenger-car tires on it, i.e. less the the C-range tires it came with new. spare tire was on the roof.

This is only the 2nd New World Toyota RV I've ever seen.  Seem to be pretty rare (if I'm right and it IS a New World).

 

[Back East Don]

You woke him from his nap and he was grumpy perhaps.  I like the big window on the passenger side but it is offset by the smaller windows all around.

[86rader]

I assume this is a late 80s rig, unless someone upgraded the front end. That would mean it is EFI. It is also a manual. Extremely rare drivetrain, sadly. Too bad he was such a douchebag. Probably some down on his luck guy living in it.

Does anyone have any numbers on how many 22RE - manual trans rigs were built?  I have never seen one. Oddly enough, I have seen a few V-6 5 speeds. I suspect that a good chunk of the 22RE-stick models out there are not OEM.

 

[jjrbus]

Those valve extensions look exactly like the ones that were on my Toy when I bought it, I threw them out.    Jim

[zero]

24 minutes ago, 86rader said:

I assume this is a late 80s rig, unless someone upgraded the front end. That would mean it is EFI. It is also a manual. Extremely rare drivetrain, sadly. Too bad he was such a douchebag. Probably some down on his luck guy living in it.

Does anyone have any numbers on how many 22RE - manual trans rigs were built?  I have never seen one. Oddly enough, I have seen a few V-6 5 speeds. I suspect that a good chunk of the 22RE-stick models out there are not OEM.

 

 

New World came out in 1985 and the 22RE and four speed manual was standard.  It also came new with passenger-car tires.  P195-75-R14'.

I would of loved to asked the owner some questions if he wasn't such a prick.  I drove by an hour later and he had it up on jacks trying to change the flat (I assume). Seems he was having some sort of problem, but I wasn't going to offer any more help.  Looks pretty obvious that the entire RV coach got a "truck swap" underneath.  Look at how narrow the back bumper is.  That looks to be the original bumper from a pickup truck.

[Derek up North]

Some people just don't like to be disturbed and photographed. Probably don't like the idea of having their picture and license plate posted on the internet without permission.

[zero]

Too bad.   Not exactly "covert" photos considering he was parked near the main entrance of a busy Walmart in the middle of the day.  Besides - he gave me permission to take photos.   THAT was the only positive reply I got from him.  When I asked "is anybody home" and he answered "yeah, what do you want" . . ., I replied "can I take some photos, I collect Toyota RVs and info."  He grunted in an unfriendly tone "go ahead."  So for that, I had full compliance.  He got really unfriendly when I mentioned his flat tire.  He acted as though I was some sort of scam-artist trying to pull something over on him.  He seemed to be all alone and for all I can tell - that Toyota might of been his main residence.

I still don't get the license-plate fear thing.  We drive all over the country with our plates showing to anyone who wants to look.  But somehow - if they show on the Net - they become a hazard?

[zero]

The funny thing is (or odd) is micro-mini RVs are rared where I live and travel.   I've seen maybe a dozen since I moved to Michigan.  I've yet to get to meet an owner and actually have any sort of conversation - like some of us do here.  The closest I've come is when we had someone camp near us on Lake Superior and they had a brand new Toyota pickup with a matching slide-on camper.  They were very friendly.  I suffer from the illusion (maybe because of this forum) that Toyota RV owners like to talk to other such owners and share info.  So far, in my world - that has not been the case.  In fact, I've never met a Toyota RV owner that was even aware of any Internet-based forums or newsgroups.

[Back East Don]

8 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

 I suffer from the illusion (maybe because of this forum) that Toyota RV owners like to talk to other such owners and share info.  So far, in my world - that has not been the case.  In fact, I've never met a Toyota RV owner that was even aware of any Internet-based forums or newsgroups.

That sounds about right.  Wish it was more like Jeep Wrangler owners as it is customary to wave while driving past each other.  When I first got mine, I was wondering why every Jeep driver I passed was waving at me.  They should have explained this to me at the dealer.

Could just be an odd quark in human nature.  In RV parks, you typically find people a lot more open to saying hello and striking up a conversation.  It is like being in the park is a safe zone.  Perhaps out in a public space, people are less at ease as they are outside that safe zone.

A couple of times I've had people come up to ask questions.  One time I had picked up groceries before heading out on a fishing trip and while putting them in, a woman with her little kids in tow came up and asked if she could be nosy for just a minute.  I was happy to answer her questions but I was a bit startled as I was in my own head at the time.  Amazing how you can be surrounded by people and still shut the world out.  I told her to buy a pop up and avoid the headache.  Was that wrong of me?

[zero]

I (we) have many people come up to us and ask questions when we are in our Toyota RV. Lots of waves and thumbs-up too.  None from other people in Toyota RVs though.  Seems more from people who think the idea of having one is neat - but never got beyond that point.

[86rader]

I bought a pop-up once.

Used it once. It damn near killed the POS AT in my old taurus wagon. I quickly came to the realization that a pop-up is essentially a really heavy tent. I understand this is not the case with newer ones that have bathrooms and kitchens, but, I will never go that route again. The advantage of an RV is that it is already a house without doing anything to it. And in the case of a MH, it is a useable house at highway speed, or in the case of TMHs, something approaching highway speed. 

[86rader]

The first few times I looked at the pic looking into the cab, I didn't notice mr happy poking his cheery face into the pic. Too busy making my usual observation of tranny type.

[Back East Don]

Just now, 86rader said:

I bought a pop-up once.

Used it once. It damn near killed the POS AT in my old taurus wagon. I quickly came to the realization that a pop-up is essentially a really heavy tent. I understand this is not the case with newer ones that have bathrooms and kitchens, but, I will never go that route again. The advantage of an RV is that it is already a house without doing anything to it. And in the case of a MH, it is a useable house at highway speed, or in the case of TMHs, something approaching highway speed. 

But your not saying I was wrong to recommend one are you?  She didn't seem the type.  Also I'm pretty sure her Tahoe could handle it.

[86rader]

Not at all. Different strokes for different folks. Some folks absolutely love their PUs. Maybe if I had the right tow rig and wasn't such a cheap SOB, I would have bought a newer one with all the amenities. Where in MA are you, BTW? I am headed to ORH (Worchester airport to normal folks) for a few hours of work today.

[Back East Don]

Just now, 86rader said:

Not at all. Different strokes for different folks. Some folks absolutely love their PUs. Maybe if I had the right tow rig and wasn't such a cheap SOB, I would have bought a newer one with all the amenities. Where in MA are you, BTW? I am headed to ORH (Worchester airport to normal folks) for a few hours of work today.

A little over a half hour north right up 190. 

In this woman's case she was basically looking for a hotel replacement to visit her mom twice a year. That's pretty much how she described it.  Her rational really didn't make sense to me money wise.  So I punted and went with the default Pop-Up.

[Totem]

To me  Ive seen some nice pop ups.. but many a place such as yellowstone wont allow them due to bears. I wanted a camper that can go anywhere and not need a special "safe space". I'm not much of a safe space fan.

LOL yup just noticed the guys face in that one pic... yikes.

I saw a larger tow camper that was a pop up but hard shell one that was on actuators maybe 21 feet long yesterday; apparently it collapses down for travel yet is hard sided. If I got a pop up that's what i would get.

 

As to the Jeep wave, I used to own a 1986 Jeep Cj 7... the "wave" is called the "Jeep thing". Its a jeep wave that comes from off road trail-riding where upon if you are OK you wave if not you will signal you need help.

[zero]

I'd never own a pop-up trailer again. I had several and they were fine to actually camp with or tow. My problem was what mice did to them every winter when in storage.  No matter what I tried, I'd find all sorts of new mouse-holes chewed through the canvas every spring.

[zero]

21 minutes ago, 86rader said:

(Worchester airport to normal folks)

How did it become "Worchester" instead of "Worcester?"  Just curious. I lived in Worcester, New York for over 40 years. It was settled by people who came from Worcester, Massachusetts late 1700s, and in turn - Worcester, Mass was settled by people from Worcester, England.  My brother was a lifer in Massachusetts (also a "deader"). He died near his beloved and hallowed MIT (I do not share the same sentiment).   He always spelled our town's name as Worchester. 

[zero]

28 minutes ago, Totem said:

LOL yup just noticed the guys face in that one pic... yikes.

 

That is funny.  I did NOT even realized the guy's face was there until you people mentioned it.  When I took the photo, I could hear his voice but did not see him (it was kind of dark inside the cab).  I did not even notice his grumpy face was in the photo until now.

[Back East Don]

11 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

How did it become "Worchester" instead of "Worcester?"

Nope, it's Worcester.  At least for a long as I've been alive.  Probably just a typo.  I've worked with and for a number of MIT alum including Dr. Bose.  Got to take a invitation only acoustics course he taught at MIT.  Genuinely nice guy but I know what you mean about dedication to the old school.  He tried to leave Bose Corp to MIT but the minority stock holders revolted and put a stop to it.

[SCRIPAL]

2 hours ago, Back East Don said:

That sounds about right.  Wish it was more like Jeep Wrangler owners as it is customary to wave while driving past each other.  When I first got mine, I was wondering why every Jeep driver I passed was waving at me.  They should have explained this to me at the dealer.

Could just be an odd quark in human nature.  In RV parks, you typically find people a lot more open to saying hello and striking up a conversation.  It is like being in the park is a safe zone.  Perhaps out in a public space, people are less at ease as they are outside that safe zone.

A couple of times I've had people come up to ask questions.  One time I had picked up groceries before heading out on a fishing trip and while putting them in, a woman with her little kids in tow came up and asked if she could be nosy for just a minute.  I was happy to answer her questions but I was a bit startled as I was in my own head at the time.  Amazing how you can be surrounded by people and still shut the world out.  I told her to buy a pop up and avoid the headache.  Was that wrong of me?

Don, I have had the same experience with folks asking questions, thumbs up and other kind words.  A few years back, I was working on mine in the driveway when I was startled by a woman's voice outside the door.  She was a realtor working the neighborhood and she said, "I have been looking for one of these, how much do you want for it?"  I told her it was not for sale at which time she hit me with a barrage of questions about cost, gas mileage, recommended models etc.  She took notes while we talked and I often wonder if she bought one?

[linda s]

At my old house I used to get notes and phone numbers left on my camper every week. Landscapers working in the neighborhood and even the garbage man knocked on my door at 6 in the morning one time asking if I would sell my Sunrader. Now that I have all 3 motorhomes parked on my property here at my new house no one bothers me. I think they just think I must be too crazy to deal with. They might be right. I completely understand that guy being pissed off though. It's his house and someone was looking in his windows. Peeping Tom? against the law if it's your home

Linda S

[fred heath]

Funny,

I usually get folks stopping and asking questions about my MH. All seem legitimately interested in hearing the history of these motorhomes etc. I always refer them to this forum to learn more.

As far as "thumbs up", seems most of those come from guys who look like they play for ZZ TOP. ?

[Back East Don]

2 hours ago, linda s said:

I completely understand that guy being pissed off though. It's his house and someone was looking in his windows. Peeping Tom? against the law if it's your home

Privacy is an interesting legal topic especially in this technological age.  Been a lot of interesting rulings regarding where one can have an expectation to privacy.  Established law on this seems to get twisted every other day. 

That said, I typically shout out in an effort to let people know I am interested in taking photos but am under no legal obligation, as there is no legal expectation of privacy in a public place. I am only under a social obligation instilled upon me by my parents.  This is very established law.  Like taking pictures at the beach or park.  Yet I know photographers who have people freak out when they point the camera in their direction in public.  A lot of people seem to think they possess rights that don't exist outside their home.  Long and short, you have no right to privacy in public.

I certainly feel for grumpy guss but none of his rights were violated. 

[linda s]

I know that wouldn't be considered private in a motorhome but it is what we would expect if we were home. Out of curtesy I would treat someone's motorhome the same as I would treat their real home because they probably don't have one of those. I do not like my picture taken ever and I would have no problem breaking your camera. Legal be damned

Linda S

How hard is it to knock on the door first and ask permission. And if you don't get it leave it alone

[Back East Don]

8 minutes ago, linda s said:

I know that wouldn't be considered private in a motorhome but it is what we would expect if we were home. Out of curtesy I would treat someone's motorhome the same as I would treat their real home because they probably don't have one of those. I do not like my picture taken ever and I would have no problem breaking your camera. Legal be damned

While I certainly have sympathy for your sentiments I would hope the notion of breaking my camera is hyperbole.  I used to be heavily into 35mm photography.  Favorite subjects were people and places.  I'm taking photos not stealing souls.  Both people and architecture often became too much of a hassle. I bet like most people, you're a fan of beautiful photography.  Heaven forbid I'm taking a picture of a sunset on a beach you are on.  Can't go violating your sensibilities can I?

You will note that fundamentally if you read what I wrote, we are not really at odds opinion wise on how to handle such situations.  I just pointed out I would be under no legal obligation.  I also found the peeping tom question gratuitous. My dog in this hunt?  I've posted similar photos with similar circumstances. You paint me with the same brush.  I have no issues of conscience taking these kinds of pictures at distance and shouting out for permission if I want closer detail pictures.

[Totem]

52 minutes ago, linda s said:

I know that wouldn't be considered private in a motorhome but it is what we would expect if we were home. Out of curtesy I would treat someone's motorhome the same as I would treat their real home because they probably don't have one of those. I do not like my picture taken ever and I would have no problem breaking your camera. Legal be damned

Linda S

How hard is it to knock on the door first and ask permission. And if you don't get it leave it alone

JDE did get his permission. He stated that.

[Totem]

I'd like to address the license plate question JDE had, in my case I am never a fan of my license plate making it into online forum pictures. So if you do take pictures of my RV at a rally or meeting please by all means blur that out.

The reason? identifiable markings and identity theft. Yes people can use your license plate numbers to gain more information about you and in turn gain your address and then when you move homes they can get you.

Now you may ask, but its on display everywhere you go, and while legally this is true and required, the where you go part is still limited to where you are... where as the internet forums that are online are everywhere all the time including russia and china. Its the things you don't think about that you should fear more than those you do. Always limit your online exposure.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Totem

[linda s]

34 minutes ago, Totem said:

JDE did get his permission. He stated that.

Nope no permission mentioned. Just because we can do some things doesn't make it right. I'm sure if you found someone taking  pictures of your kids in your camper it would go well for them. From the outside at a distance taking pictures of an unusual rig I can see but up close peering inside is just rude.

Linda S

 

[linda s]

And to Back East Don. Yes if your taking pictures of a beach and I happen to be on it no big deal but if your in my face snapping pics the camera is history. Quote from Robert Heinlein

"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentile manners, is more significant than a riot"

Linda S

[Back East Don]

33 minutes ago, linda s said:

Nope no permission mentioned.

This right here would indicate to me that you clearly are reading all of this through your own bias to the point where you have totally blocked out exactly what has been said that is in agreement with you.

And yes, he did indicate he got permission.  It's a few posts down.

[zero]

2 hours ago, linda s said:

How hard is it to knock on the door first and ask permission. And if you don't get it leave it alone

I am a little lost here with the context of "asking permission."  I DID ask permission to take photos and got it (although I did not need it, legally).    Expectation of privacy in the middle of a workday in the middle of a crowded public parking lot, right next to the main entrance of a busy Walmart is ridiculous.  How this even remotely compares to a someone's house, I don't  get.  When it comes to "peeping Tom" laws - they usually apply to someone secretly recording some sort of imagery when the "victim" is on private property.  I did nothing "secret" nor did I invade any person's private property.

I would not walk up to anyone and start taking photos anywhere (unless family or friends).  An empty truck on public-access land - yes. I did not know if anyone was in the motorhome when I got there.  Thus the reason why I yelled out "anybody home" before considering taking photos.  Again, the guy told me it was OK.  His anger seemed to rise when I told him he had a flat tire.   He got even worse when he thought I was trying to offer him help.  I call that a little strange.  Kind of reminds me of my dad always felt the need to hold doors open for ladies and sometimes offer to carry their groceries if he thought a woman was having trouble. One day - some woman had a fit because he tried to hold open a door for her and made certain he knew she was FULLY capable of opening her own door.  Hey, was that you Linda?  I felt bad for my dad. He had become an anachronism.  In this case - I was truly willing to help this guy out if he was stuck in some way - and he took offense over it.  Kind of funny. I have a shop 1 mile away with many Toyota RV parts.  Even several sets of 6 lug wheels with new tires on them.  Kind of a rare situation I will say.  I know if I was stuck in some remote area - I'd be glad to find someone willing to help if I needed it. If I did not, I certainly would not get angry over the offer.

[linda s]

Then I have no problem with taking pics. I didn't see that in your post and I thought that might be why he was so grumpy. I know others who are not so careful and lots of bad stuff could happen. Imagine if there was a teenage girl in that camper and when she saw someone peering in she screamed. Could get you shot for sure. I let people hold doors for me all the time. Hell I'm old and I need them too

Linda S

[linda s]

1 hour ago, Back East Don said:

This right here would indicate to me that you clearly are reading all of this through your own bias to the point where you have totally blocked out exactly what has been said that is in agreement with you.

And yes, he did indicate he got permission.  It's a few posts down.

I admit I only went back and read the first one. That's why I missed it

Linda S

[Back East Don]

34 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

He got even worse when he thought I was trying to offer him help

While this post certainly took a left turn, understand that the fact you were trying to be a good neighbor wasn't lost on most of us.  Most people are decent and want to help their fellow man out.  I know we poked a bit of fun at this guy's expense but I'm not too concerned about it. As tragic as life's circumstances can get, you still need to be able to find the humor in it or else we all end up relegated to life barely worth living.  Empathy for someone down and out is a worthless emotion if you do nothing.  It's not nearly as valuable as being willing to offer to lend a hand like you did.  There was a lot of nuance that got completely lost by some in this post.

As a fellow traveler, you have my appreciation.