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http://www.westyventures.com/propex.html

The Propex heaters, a modern RV standard propane heater used in Europe are now available in the USA.  There are two BTU sizes available 6500 and 9700. These units have the advantage of a fresh air intake and also exhausting all the waste air. But they do recirculate inside air back into the furnace as well to reheat it saving fuel cost. They have their own thermostat. There are several mounting options including mounting it underneath the vehicle instead of inside. It does have a duct tube so if you wanted to get some heat up to an overcab you might be able to make that happen.

It is designed with a quiet fan.

http://www.westyventures.com/HS2211 flyer.pdf

hs2211%20(15).JPG

Edited by snail powered

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Being a materialistic person I had to look up the price, only $650,  plus the mounting bracket is $65.  Not sure if that is a lot of money or I am still stuck with a 1980's mindset?  Jim

 

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European RV heaters have been available in the US for years.  Too expensive and too small for anything I want.  Nice plus though is they are more efficient then our Suburban or Hydroflame/Atwood furnaces. 

A 21 foot Toyota RV tends to have a 16,000 BTU input furnace that is 75% efficient. It puts out 12,000 BTUs of heat into the "house."

The largest Propex (HS2800) I know of is 93% efficient and  only makes 9500 BTUs of heat to the "house."
Espar-Trumatic is larger, is also 93% efficient, and the E4000 sends 12,600 BTUs of heat into the "house."

So if someone wants a European heater that matches our USA OEM furnaces, the Espar-Trumatic E4000 is the make and model.

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The 16,000 BTU blast furnaces make fast heat but one can do the same heating with a much smaller heater yes it will run more often but the bottom line it will keep the camper warm and will be a lot quieter. A Mr Buddy will heat a toy home a 1000 watt electric will heat a Toy home in all but the coldest weather.. The Europeans have been making efficient heaters for camper/trucks for many years both propane and diesel.

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A 1000 watt electric heater certainly doesn't keep my Toyota RV "warm" in cold weather.  We camped when it was around 15-20 degrees F outside and were at a campsite with AC power.  We  had two electric heaters plugged in and it still wasn't warm inside.  That's 7000 BTUs of electric heat.  Would of been OK for sleeping when covered up but otherwise, absolutely not.   Fired up the Suburban furnace that makes 12,000 BTUs of heat inside and it was a night-and-day difference.  I suspect there is a reason that is usually the minimum size used in 20-21 foot RVs.  The European furnaces as far as efficiency goes are just like we have here in the US for household furnaces.  You can buy one that is rated 75% (and is often more reliable) but needs a steel chimney, or buy one rated 93% and vent with PVC and pay a few hundred bucks more. 

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I lived on a 30' boat in salt water that froze in the winter for awhile and heated it with a Cozy Cabin propane heater that was only 5,500 BTU granted it ran 24/7 but it was cozy.I have done work on my tow behind in 10* weather with nothing more than a 1,000 watt heater that also worked for me. The RV heaters are way over rated for what they do because people want instant gratification when they want heat they want it now they can't wait for a half an hour or so to be warm. Frankly I can't sleep through one of the RV ones running I can't afford to replace a heater that works just because but if I needed a new one I would have a hard look at a EU heater.

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On 5/30/2016 at 11:09 AM, Maineah said:

The RV heaters are way over rated for what they do because people want instant gratification F

That certainly does NOT apply to all RVs. My 20 foot Jayco camper trailer has a 9600 BTU gravity heater (7200 BTU output) and if can run constantly, non stop and barely keep the camper in the high 50s when it is 10-20 degrees F out.    My Jayco 8 foot Sportster truck camper with a pop-top and a portion of the sidewalls canvas has a NT12 forced-air furnace.  12,000 BTU input and puts 9000 BTUs of heat into the living space. If it's 10-20F outside - it will run more then half the time to keep the interior around 65 degrees F. 20 If we want it warmer, it  runs near constantly. Not exactly what I'd call overkill.  I have a 16,000 BTU heater in my 20 foot Toyota and I would not want anything any smaller.  We had to use it last night in the Michigan UP. Temps went down to low 40s F by the morning. After a day of near 80 F, that low 40 felt cold in the morning.  So I turned on the furnace and it ran for half-an-hour non-stop before it got 65 F inside.  Again, not what I call overkill. I call it about right.  I don't call half-an-hour "instant."

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4 hours ago, jdemaris said:

That certainly does NOT apply to all RVs. My 20 foot Jayco camper trailer has a 9600 BTU gravity heater (7200 BTU output) and if can run constantly, non stop and barely keep the camper in the high 50s when it is 10-20 degrees F out.    My Jayco 8 foot Sportster truck camper with a pop-top and a portion of the sidewalls canvas has a NT12 forced-air furnace.  12,000 BTU input and puts 9000 BTUs of heat into the living space. If it's 10-20F outside - it will run more then half the time to keep the interior around 65 degrees F. 20 If we want it warmer, it  runs near constantly. Not exactly what I'd call overkill.  I have a 16,000 BTU heater in my 20 foot Toyota and I would not want anything any smaller.  We had to use it last night in the Michigan UP. Temps went down to low 40s F by the morning. After a day of near 80 F, that low 40 felt cold in the morning.  So I turned on the furnace and it ran for half-an-hour non-stop before it got 65 F inside.  Again, not what I call overkill. I call it about right.  I don't call half-an-hour "instant."

 That's a 25* rise it should take maybe a 1/2 an hour. At 40* I have no problem keeping my RV warm with a 1000 watt electric heater yeah it's cold for a good while but once it's warm it stays that way. When I come into my cold camper I usually turn on the furnace when it comfortable it gets turned off and I get by with a electric heater or some thing like a Mr Buddy over night.If I had no furnace I would either go for a good jog or wrap up in a blanket until the electric heater brought the temp up and it will do it..

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In my world an RV is supposed to be for "recreation", i.e. "fun."  If I was using it as a home and living in it full-time - then I'd be concerned about fuel-efficiency with the furnace and maybe even more steady heat with something smaller that ran near all the time.   THIS is not the case - at least not for the way I use an RV (and likely most other people).  We like sleeping with little to no heat (when it's real cold outside) and just use lots of blankets.  We also like getting up in the morning, turning up that thermostat, and getting warm reasonably fast.  I assume that is why near every 20-21 foot RV maker put in a 12K or 16K  BTU furnace.

One other possible variable that I have no proof of.  High efficiency gas/propane furnaces have not been as reliable as lower-efficiency furnaces when it comes to household heating. It's a trade-off.  High efficiency furnaces don't need hardly any chimney and they save a little fuel. I just put two new furnaces in two different houses.  Both 80K input.  One was $550 and is 75% efficient, and the other was $800 and is 93% efficient.  Same numbers as our USA RV furnaces compared to the European.  The 75% furnace requires a metal chimney, whereas the 93% only needs plastic PVC pipe for a vent.   It remains to be seen if overtime I gain anything with the 93% furnace - depending on how much trouble I have with it.  I pretty much HAD to use it due to metal high-heat chimney installation problems.   In an RV though?    I suspect many RV users would never notice the 18% gain in efficiency.  That being said, it would be nice to have less heat going out to the birds if such a furnace is reliable and cost-effective.  I know this. If my Suburban 75% furnace stops working, it is always an easy fix.  I suspect not so if I had a European Propex or Espar.  

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We live in a country that is heavily invested in using fuel in Europe they don't have that luxury pretty much every fuel saving ideal we now use has been used in Europe for decades. They are good at it .A good portion of European /Asian motor homes/campers use mini splits.

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This was posted in the subject for links to new products. Can anyone tell me why it had to be turned from a link to a product into yet another endless discussion that drags on and on and is not actually about the product being linked to?

Is it the heat wave that is getting to me and making me cranky? Most likely....

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Because.....:rolleyes:

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6 hours ago, snail powered said:

This was posted in the subject for links to new products. Can anyone tell me why it had to be turned from a link to a product into yet another endless discussion that drags on and on and is not actually about the product being linked to?

Is it the heat wave that is getting to me and making me cranky? Most likely....

I appreciate the new products you post. Yes these heater are kind of expensive but I saw one on craigslist for 200 bucks. Their small size and ability to be mounted underneath would make for more room in our tiny campers and lots of us don't need a heater for sub-zero weather. Some people just like to poo poo everything.

Linda S

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Let me get this straight.   One person posts about a European heater and the possible advantage of having one in one of our Toyota RVs, correct?

Then when someone else  lists specific specs on European heaters and their pros and cons (as opposed to US heaters) - it is to be considered "off topic" somehow?

And then a moderator like Linda paints it all with a "broad brush" and comes up with a snide remark pointed towards anyone who dare said anything on the negative side?

Sorry for my added "poo-pooing" Linda, but what a bunch of nonsense.  I thought this forum was about discussion. That means a two-way conversation, at the least.

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I'm a member here like everyone else. I have a right to my opinion too.

Linda S

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As do I.  I guess my manners are just better then your's (hey, just my opinion).

I will further note that I have posted previously, on this forum about the Propex and Espar European heaters. It's not as if this thread is where the discussion has its incipient beginning.

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Well we all know how conversations in forums go...

Sometimes it reminds me of our puppy endlessly licking the surface of his bowl long after the food has been completely consumed.

@Linda, wow I would have loved to have gotten one of these heaters from craigslist for $200.00!!! I have no plans for turning my Sunrader or little fiberglass trailer into a ski chalet :)

Edited by snail powered

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10 minutes ago, snail powered said:

Sometimes it reminds me of our puppy endlessly licking the surface of his bowl long after the food has been completely consumed.

I've even known senior dogs who go back and 'lick the bowl' 16 days after it's empty and the rest of the pack has moved on. :)

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BOO! mic drop out.

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1 hour ago, snail powered said:

Well we all know how conversations in forums go...

Sometimes it reminds me of our puppy endlessly licking the surface of his bowl long after the food has been completely consumed.

@Linda, wow I would have loved to have gotten one of these heaters from craigslist for $200.00!!! I have no plans for turning my Sunrader or little fiberglass trailer into a ski chalet :)

If I ever see another one I will let you know.

Linda S

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On 6/22/2016 at 0:06 PM, linda s said:

If I ever see another one I will let you know.

Linda S

Thanks, I would appreciate that.

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On 6/22/2016 at 10:22 AM, Derek up North said:

I've even known senior dogs who go back and 'lick the bowl' 16 days after it's empty and the rest of the pack has moved on. :)

That would be because I did not subscribe to the thread and forgot to check for responses to it. I had other things happening..like going camping and fixing up the RVs. I don't get daily updates either. Hmmm maybe I should just quit looking all together, think of the time savings :)

Edited by snail powered

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