Not starting

[Maineah]

Generally the first thing people blame is the most complex part 95% of the time it is not. I can not say for fact the ECU fires the coil nor can I say it does not I can say it can control timing etc.but I also believe it is unlikely it will cause ign failure do to the fairly heavy current load of the coil than is why it has an igniter.

[payaso del mar]

11 minutes ago, jjrbus said:

Wires into ignitor are pretty well sealed any good/easy way to access?   

yeah, sharpen the tip of your multimeter probe and stab it right through the insulation.....you can glob some goop over pinhole later if that bothers you but not really much need

[jjrbus]

On 5/10/2016 at 11:45 AM, RVdaytrader said:

You could always try an aftermarket distributor to see if thats the problem...for 46 bucks

 

http://www.speedyracer.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1004003&gclid=COyQ9Jbsz8wCFYqPfgodtxUHpg

I ordered the distributor Tue,   I have heard nothing, no conformation letter, money has not been taken from pay pal. Nothing.    Jim

[linda s]

Yup very good deal at Rock Auto. I didn't even think to check there. Still hoping it's not that but at least you have a source. No I wasn't guessing on that number. I looked it up and that's the only number for your vehicle and it fits only the 91 through 93 WT chassis

Linda S

[jjrbus]

8 hours ago, linda s said:

Yup very good deal at Rock Auto. I didn't even think to check there. Still hoping it's not that but at least you have a source. No I wasn't guessing on that number. I looked it up and that's the only number for your vehicle and it fits only the 91 through 93 WT chassis

Linda S

I was not questioning your parts searching ability's, simply showing what I had to work with

[zero]

jjrbus . . you did some excellent diagnostic work.   Think about all the time you've spent thinking about the problem, or searching for info. Now try to imagine paying someone to do all that who may be worse at it then you.  It is why I avoid repair shops like the plague. I used to be a mechanic on a time clock (not flat rate) so I know how it can be.  If your Toyota had some problem that was well known "in house" with people who specialize in Toyotas, I can see where it might make sense to let them have a go at it.  But on a vehicle over 20 years old?   Such a person or place might be hard to find. Like I said earlier, that is how I wound up buying the 1983 Datsun RV.  There is a local repair shop where the owner lived and the guy used to be a Nissan mechanic.  He is alleged to be the Datsun/Nissan guru of everything old.   Well, he got nowhere with the poor guy's RV except billed him for a new fuel pump he did not need and almost a new carburetor.  I went down and spoke to the guy and asked him about the ignition module inside the distributor. This was before I bought the RV.  He told me that it was true that they were known to fail - but . .    He knew the one in this 83 was good and besides, it is not available as a separate part.   Long story short -  the modules were indeed available by themselves (not from Nissan), I put one in (from Rock Auto, and it fixed it.

I have a 2008 GM/Suzuki with a Cadillac 3.6 V6 that is going to drive me absolutely crazy.  WAY too complex, three timing chains, four camshafts, six cam sensors, etc., etc.  I just had it apart and had to buy $300 in new tools to do it and I still seems to have problems.  Funny, I was recently thinking how much simpler 80s-90s Toyotas are.  Now - I am not so sure.  At least not the 3 liter V6 version.

If anyone cares - my GM/Suzuki keeps throwing a code that  indicates possible loose camshafts and/or both cams out of time on #1 cylinder bank.  Note I just had it all apart and used the new special GM timing tools to "prove" it was in perfect time.  Computer says it is still off and the best fuel mileage I have gotten so far is 19 MPG. Note it seems to run perfect.  So - do I pull it part again? If so, what on earth else can I do unless I can get a timing wheel on it and verify cam timing that way?  If gas mileage was where it should be - I'd just drive forever with the check-engine-light on and not worry about it.  It's an XL-7 SUV AWD near the same size as a Dodge GrandCaravan.  Note that my low-tech 1998 Dodge GrandCaravan with AWD and a 3.8 V6 and pushrod engine has 300K miles on it and still gets 21 MPG.  So it seems to me that a 2008 GM AWD SUV with Suzuki nameplates on it and GM's "high feature" engine ought to do at least as good as my older and cruder Dodge. Otherwise what is the point of all this complexity?

[jjrbus]

Again thanks for the compliment.   I just do not need this now, trying to get ready for a trip and not knowing what I am doing!  I have been asking around a bit for someone good with diagnostics and have one prospect, but not ready to throw the towel in just yet. 

Sorry I can't help with your Suzuki!

I pushed as hard as I dare and was not able to get the probe in the black wire with blue stripe,  I tried a pin and gave up, afraid I was going to damage wire.  So tried shoving the pin down in the connector.  Not knowing if I had contact or not I unplugged the ECM and used a continuity light to make sure I had a contact.

My computer safe logic probe shows a constant green (ground) light weather key is on or not.   I see no flash when trying to crank?

 

[zero]

Is that a self-powered light or does it need 12 volts?   Trigger signal is only around 1 volt as I recall.  That's why a ohm-meter is a much better way to test.  Or a low-volt voltmeter.

[payaso del mar]

4 hours ago, jdemaris said:

ought to do at least as good as my older and cruder Dodge. Otherwise what is the point of all this complexity?

four letters:  AK 47..................     sometimes crude and loose tolerances works well.

Jim, that sounds like no signal from ignitor.  and I agree with JD, your diagnostic approach is just fine and you're not likely to find anyone who cares as much about your 20+ yr old RV running as you do.

 

 

 

[jjrbus]

Thanks guy's, greatly appreciated.   In the picture I am showing that the pin I inserted is making contact in the plug, with a battery powered continuity tester, but have the ECM plug disconnected for this. Computers make me nervous.

Reinserted plug and tested with computer safe logic tester.   It shows a continuous green (ground) with or without ignition on, no flash or pulse when cranking.

On a side note.  12V is being supplied to the instrument cluster and I have continuity through the W wire (CEL) to the ECM plug.  I had the ECM plug out and thought why not?  So I grounded the W wire and the CEL came on.  No smoke or sparks or anything and then though I should have asked before I tried this.

6X mounted quad 50, throw lead at it until you run out.

 

Edited May 13, 2016 by jjrbus

[jjrbus]

I tested the MAF today, it passed.  I am about tapped out on ideas. May just order a new ECM, unless someone has a better idea?   Jim

[jjrbus]

My options are call in a mechanic of unknown diagnostic skills or order from Rock auto.    Rock wins,    Sorry no longer in stock, cart has been cleared.   

So searching for  ECM.    Jim

 

[zero]

Autozone shows it in stock.  Cost a little more though.  $244 exchange, or $275 outright.

[jjrbus]

Just came back from a hit all the auto parts stores trip.    Autozone says it is not available, only send in and repair.  Advance is a call the supplier and find out if and when it can be available and Orielly's has one available in the state of Florida, which I ordered for $277, which will be here Sunday. 

Autozone says 1 week for send in, diagnose, repair and return, but cannot quote price until diagnosed. 

I have a returnable ignitor coming to try again just in case, that will be later today.

Thanks for the input as this is very frustrating.                        Jim

 

[zero]

Makes me want something with no computer. I guess my 1978 Toyota Chinook fits into that category.

[jjrbus]

58 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

Makes me want something with no computer. I guess my 1978 Toyota Chinook fits into that category.

The computer allows me to save ton's of money on gas.  Right now I am not burning any

[jjrbus]

Here is the plan at the moment.  I have a ECM on order but not 100% sure it is the problem.   I can send my ECM in and have it diagnosed, should be able to find out if it is good or bad in a couple days.  If it is good I can return the ordered ECM and start looking for another problem, if bad get it repaired.

The unknown here is, does every ECM that gets diagnosed have a problem, Like the transmission shops!

[jjrbus]

The saga of the dead Sea Breeze continues.   There was one rebuilt ECM available for the dual wheel cab and chassis available $277 + $40 core.  I ordered it and it is in my possession. If installed no refund will be given.  There are some small orange dots on ECM sockets so it is easy to spot if installed. The sites that claim to have the ECM I have to send mine in for repair.

I have had some good luck on forums with people helping me and have read countless posts/articles on 90ish Toyota's with no spark, no start issues. I have followed advice and the FSM as best I can and cannot find a problem.

It seems the ECM in these units is almost bullet proof and rarely go bad, usually from water getting in them. 

Also important to note here is if and that is a big IF there is a problem in the Toy and a new/rebuilt ECM is installed, it can be damaged. If damaged by the vehicle it is unlikely a refund will be given!

So what to do?   I have sent my ECM to zkboys on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/321708270034?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT  I choose them as they are on Ebay with a 98.7% good feed back.  What does Joe Average know about ECM rebuilders? I talked with them and they do not see an issue with the cab and Chassis, dual rear wheel ECM and it is not the same as the pickup or 4runner.  What is the difference I do not know and do not want to be the guinea pig on that one!

Anyway, zkboys will do a diagnostic on my ECM, if the ECM is good, that means the issue is in the Toy and  I am going to jump off a building.  They will charge my estate a $90 diagnostic fee and return the other $90 to Pay Pal, I paid $180 upfront on Ebay.  If there is an issue they will repair and send back, free shipping.  There is also a possibility they can tell me where to look for problems on the Toy.

This is the longest post I have typed in a long time, hope it helps someone.      Jim  SW FL

[Derek up North]

Not the greatest reviews found using Google.

[zero]

1 hour ago, jjrbus said:

 

It seems the ECM in these units is almost bullet proof and rarely go bad, usually from water getting in them. 

Also important to note here is if and that is a big IF there is a problem in the Toy and a new/rebuilt ECM is installed, it can be damaged. If damaged by the vehicle it is unlikely a refund will be given!

    Jim  SW FL

In my experience - ECMs fail due to an outside problem.  Many of those circuits in the ECM have no fuse protection, so if some sensor, solenoid, relay, etc. fails on the circuit - it fries that leg of the ECM.  For that reason, it would be nice to have a place actually check your unit and tell you exactly what part of it went bad (if it IS bad).  That might help you make a decision on some other part replacements also.

[jjrbus]

14 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

In my experience - ECMs fail due to an outside problem.  Many of those circuits in the ECM have no fuse protection, so if some sensor, solenoid, relay, etc. fails on the circuit - it fries that leg of the ECM.  For that reason, it would be nice to have a place actually check your unit and tell you exactly what part of it went bad (if it IS bad).  That might help you make a decision on some other part replacements also.

And then of course there is the issue of,  are all the ECM's sent in bad? Like when I go to a transmission shop.       Jim

[jjrbus]

1 hour ago, Derek up North said:

Not the greatest reviews found using Google.

Out of 1400 reviews only 16 were negative on Ebay.      With Ebay we have to assume that all the reviews are from actual customers.

I also noticed that many of the negative reviews were from MB owners,  a long time ago in a land far away I sold MB.  

 

[payaso del mar]

and I think that ebay reviews tend, if anything, to be slightly biased toward the positive, because of the institutional culture there where people don't want to rock the boat unless the transaction was a real nightmare

[Derek up North]

I'm not referring to the Ebay feedback. Those that Google turned up weren't nearly as good. Yelp, BBB, etc.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=SIA+Electronics+730+N.+Minnie+St.+PO+Box+392&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=dJs7V6_XEoHiU8vsj8gE

[jjrbus]

 They may of had a bad experience with BBB and chose not to deal with them.  Even the BBB is not that bad with 5 complaints in the last 3 years, out of how many customers? We know of 1400 so far this year.

One time when searching reviews on Google I noticed that some of the same people were going from site to site posting negative reviews. I keep that in mind when looking, plus we do not know if they are actual customers?

Then I take into consideration that people with good experiences are more likely not to post.  But since they may not be actual customers it could be Aunt Tilly and Uncle Horace going from site to site posting favorable views. 

I also take into consideration that many people who write reviews are idiots.      Jim

Edited May 17, 2016 by jjrbus

[payaso del mar]

26 minutes ago, jjrbus said:

I also take into consideration that many people who write reviews are idiots. 

you, sir, are a master of understatement.........

[jjrbus]

1 hour ago, payaso del mar said:

you, sir, are a master of understatement.........

[jjrbus]

Brief update, my ECM has been serviced and is on it's way home from Chicago, it is now in Nashville TN.   I was hoping for an email report telling me what was wrong, but nothing yet. Pretty quick turn around, I sent it the 17th, they got it on Fri the 20th and shipped it out yesterday the 23rd.  

Of course quick turn around is subjective,  the Toy is sitting in my driveway, not on the side of the road in Snowshoe Wisconsin.   Jim