Replace rooftop AC

[Totem]

uhh if memory serves me correctly you also tested an AC unit in similar conditions JJ..and also declared it a "success"....and besides; at least i used a watts up meter... did you? and no I am willing to bet my toy that there will not be that much of a difference even in 92 degrees; now had you argued that i need to test it at a different elevation you may have sounded more intelligent and less of a cynic...but i digress; I have documented the exact watt draw and its so low that there is just no way it will not work. Had it been close to the limits of the unit(s) maybe but sorry no.

The most extreme irony here is that i went with the AC unit that you found by researching online as the "one" and now you are cynical of it. Believe me; you were correct... it IS the ONE.

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Totem

[jjrbus]

Does not sound like something I would say, but I have my moments so I double checked.    And no I simply reported that the available data shows the power saver as more efficient than the polar cub, I can look that one up also if you like.  

 

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by jjrbus

[Totem]

so... you found a more efficient rooftop unit? as derek would say, link please. and nothing would be more of a punch to the gut if you do have one.

[Derek up North]

Apparently there's no need for a link to prove credibility. At least in this tread.

You'll just have to assume that without a link, it didn't happen, as I do.

[Totem]

1 minute ago, Derek up North said:

Apparently there's no need for a link to prove credibility. At least in this tread.

You'll just have to assume that without a link, it didn't happen, as I do.

oh come on i gave you the db id number and the poster...

here already

 

[jjrbus]

I am watching the Advent.  I have some qualms about it as it is newer and there is not a lot of supportive data on it. "Many I hooked it up to my mini micro inverter generator and it fired right up and now life here in Antarctica is wonderful" type reports. Also I am concerned that 13.5K BTU is too big for a Toy and will not keep the humidity down.  My reading and instincts tell me that a 9K would work well.   But that is only my opinion and worth what you are paying for it!

 

[Derek up North]

24 minutes ago, Totem said:

oh come on i gave you the db id number and the poster...

here already

 

Silly me. I was looking for a tread about a FF axle failure due to overloading  (as I said twice) from the weight of an extra Honda generator (as you appear to be worried about ad nauseum). That doesn't appear to be it.

I've no idea what db id that is. Not one I have access to. Looks more like a Zip Code.

[Totem]

to the best of my knowledge; the thing that impacts more on an AC's draw is elevation rather than ambient temperature; which also is impacted to a lessor degree.

- this is actually due to the amount of power being produced as capable by the generator at elevation rather than anything related to the AC unit.

[Totem]

6 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

Silly me. I was looking for a tread about a FF axle failure due to overloading  (as I said twice) from the weight of an extra Honda generator (as you appear to be worried about ad nauseum). That doesn't appear to be it.

I've no idea what db id that is. Not one I have access to. Looks more like a Zip Code.

an axle failure is a failure plain and simple. you have no more a way to prove it wasn't overloaded than a way to prove it was; but I know for sure that these are all OVERLOADED rolling right out of the factory as built and adding addition weight to them more only proves my point.

But go ahead and argue that something about that magic honda name wont hurt them because Unicorn.

This hence forth shall be known as Unicorn or the HondaCorn argument fallacy. Never in all my days have i seen such silliness.

and you said "from overloading" NOTHING about a Honda.

you just literally outed yourself as one of the unicorn believers that something about a honda lessons its weight somehow when there are 2 of them. seriously? 

ok JJ, Derek or payaso are you SERIOUSLY going to now say these rigs aren't overloaded right from when they were made now to support your preference for HONDA>? man you guys need help.

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Totem

[Derek up North]

I don't know what you're blabbing about any more with your Honda/Unicorn (apparent) fetish. For the (your) record, I could care less about Honda anythings. I'd much rather have a good Nissan.

[payaso del mar]

Totem, you're mixing your arguments and who you're trying to respond to.  dancing unicorn meltdown?

I suspect my Bandit weighs less than an old poptop Chinook, little enough that it's been suggested to me by knowledgeable folks on this board that a full floater is maybe overkill.  i only need one 1600-2000 watter to run enough A/C to turn it into a meat locker.  In Mexico, in summer, at sea level.  Any rear frame reinforcement i do will be more to let me carry two outboards (full disclosure:  one's a Honda and the 29 lb weight is therefore magically carried by teams of unicorns and angels) on the rear bumper and/or tow a boat.

I mentioned that I just want the best quality generator due to where i camp* and the fact that i keep my machines forever, and have considered Yamaha and Hyundai and would consider a Nissan/tohatsu.  i laid out the rational reasons i eliminated each.  the problem is that, of what's available, my research keeps coming back to Honda being the best option in terms of weight, noise, parts availability, and reliability.  Note: No unicorns on that list of attributes. 

yes, i realize i'm paying a 100% price premium to have a Honda or Yammie vs.a Chinaclone.  Yes, that requires compromises on other $ expenditures; ain't none of us made of money or we'd all have EarthRoamers.  no, i won't sneer at your red HF Honda-clone if you camp next to me.  no, i'm not asking YOU to cover the $ difference (or trying to force a unicorn T-shirt onto you)......... and yes, i'm leaning towards Hondas due to (among other things) what I've found inside them (motorcycles, lawnmowers, and outboards) when working on em over many years....nothing to do with unicorns or a mystical belief in the infallibility of any mechanical item.  was i being unclear?

and no, i haven't bought it yet.  i'm keeping my mind open (despite the fact that most of my research so far has pointed me in one direction).  you?

 

*the same reason i buy the real military water jug @$40-50 rather than the Reliance @$20

[Totem]

the context is clear; if you cannot understand the fact i see no point in carrying two of ANY brand of generators in one of these little rigs, that's your comprehension loss issue thats getting in the way.

in this argument's case we only seem to argue that only one brand needs to be doubled for fear of "redundancy"  and because its under powered which in and of itself adds addition risks (weight and double propensity to fail).  My points as cave man style :

• Small rig weight precious
• should be able to run just one genny.

cant get more simple than that.... find a honda that does that and i agree with you.

the only people arguing to do it the way i am opposed to are doing it because a brand and model of genny cannot make the grade as a single solution. If the eu2000 can do it alone awesome! (cept its really 1600 watts not 2000) ...

so in claiming that you can do it with one you will either be pushing the genny hard or you have found a better AC than a 13500. - does that make more sense?

because I am hearing JJ tell me he thinks the 2500 HF wont run the 11000 btu mach 1 ps (even though i have proven it will) and then watching him say that its more redundant proof to carry two gennys that put out 1600 each and have twice the fail potential. burn double the fuel etc etc)

Sorry my opinion bothers you 3 soooo much. just as I cannot sway you you cannot sway me.  My opinion stands.

[WME]

Well I don't want to get in the middle of all this fun. But here is my experience. I had a 13.5k ac and an Onan 2500. I live at 6000 ft and on 100 degree days the Onan wouldn't reliabley restart the AC.  Added a booster cap and all was golden.

The altitude density here in the summer goes over 10,000 ft  and my 2500w genset is suddenly a 1300w unit.

[Totem]

41 minutes ago, WME said:

Well I don't want to get in the middle of all this fun. But here is my experience. I had a 13.5k ac and an Onan 2500. I live at 6000 ft and on 100 degree days the Onan wouldn't reliabley restart the AC.  Added a booster cap and all was golden.

The altitude density here in the summer goes over 10,000 ft  and my 2500w genset is suddenly a 1300w unit.

Great point.. and i also mentioned to JJ that altitude affects more than ambient temp.

Back to the topic at hand:

At 965 ft above sea level and at 72-73 degrees the 2500 predator (an older and well seasoned one) at max was supplying less than 1000 watts to start and run the 11,000 btu mach one ps edition rooftop AC. (ran great!)

Now I may actually calculate the impact of everything at this website:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/relhumhpcalc.html

and according to it , if the temperature is 95 degrees and 90 % humidity I can expect 87% of rated power output. for me thats 1914 watts (at home). Well more than enough to get the job done and probably run entire camper taboot.

And for the Honda eu2000 ? 1392 watts...which is technically enough to probably start the 11,000 BTU Mach 1 power saver but not do much else. DEFINITELY would NOT start a 13500 BTU rooftop unit.

Now for giggles lets plug in the elevation of the mountains in Mammoth Caves Kentucky...

63.9% ... now that single Honda eu2000 is only making 1008 watts and thats in full non eco mode. while the predator is making 1386; still enough to get the job done... the Honda? well now you WILL be needing 2 of them or FAIL.

 

Hope they both start... and you now must Gas 2 generators to get a mere 2016 watts of power.. which may still NOT even be enough to run a 13500 roof unit. And that childrens, (thank you WME for bringing up elevation) is why I just don't bother with dual HONDA gennys. wasteful, inefficient, half the fuel economy twice as bad for the earth and DOUBLE the noise...

 

And if you (JJ/payaso) start on me with the 145 lbs e3000 thats fine; use it.. in that case I will agree with JJ I dont care to lift that much weight.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2016 by Totem

[mtdave2]

All I can say is wow, what a spirited “conversation” lol.  I am now lost…

Totem, I really have no idea what your point is anymore, you seem more concerned with being right than helping, but tone is hard to get from the written word. Here is what I know so far

The thread was started to discuss replacing the roof top a/c, though has changed to you insisting there is no reason to carry 2 Honda generators on an rv, and that you don’t like Hondas. I do agree with your logic on most of this however two pieces you are missing. I already have Two Honda generators, why would I go buy the cheap thing from harbor freight? It would break on me, and I think it is dishonest to do the switcheroo. Soo, my option is make the 2 Hondas work.  And second, you have been given a few good reasons why we like Honda, you just have different values and expectations.

The axle thing, I am far less worried about weight breaking my axle, I am more worried about the 300 hp of my engine doing so. There are options if mine does break, including an upgrade to a completely different axle, problem solved.

The weight on the rear unweighting my front wheel , lucky for me I had a class of engineering graduates in my railroad class this week and I posed the problem to them. The problem is really a lever and force problem. There are 8 feet from the rear axle to the trailer hitch, and 16 feet from rear axle to front bumper. So it is a lever, whatever weight you put on the short end (the rear) un weights the front by ½ as much. So my 400 pounds lightens my front by 200 pounds. No big deal. Not worried.

You are also assuming I reinforced the frame so it would support the 400 pounds. What I did would be MAJOR over kill for that. My real reason is I want to be ready if needed to tow something if needed, all the steal is for that reason, not the generators.

So now that is said, I would like some help.

My issue is I live in Denver and camp at 9000 feet some times! I would love to just use one of my generators, I did buy the Mach 1 you recommended hoping It would work. Now it seams it may not. Will I or should I install the cap thing you are all speaking about? I defiantly need more info on that.

I will be using the crap out of the AC, while driving. So this system needs to work well.

I will do a write up on changing out the a/c with photos to help others thinking about it.

I am not trying to tell you do anything, other than just take a breath brother, we are just trying to discuss our toys here not win some debate competition. It is ok if people have different views than you.

[jjrbus]

Installing a aftermarket hard start capacitor will void your warranty!   Coleman has a hard start available, can it be installed in the power saver?  I would assume it has to be installed by a dealer to not void warrenty, but would check with them to find out. Unless you do not care about the warrenty?

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Coleman-Mach-Hard-Start-Kit-p/48-1759.htm

I am not saying the power saver will not work with 1 Honda,  but I would not bet the farm on it.   Not being knowledgeable in such things I read to expect 3% power loss on a generator per 1000 ft of altitude, at 9000 ft that is a 27% decrease in power.  

 

Edited May 26, 2016 by jjrbus

[Totem]

1 hour ago, mtdave2 said:

All I can say is wow, what a spirited “conversation” lol.  I am now lost…

Totem, I really have no idea what your point is anymore, you seem more concerned with being right than helping, but tone is hard to get from the written word. Here is what I know so far

The thread was started to discuss replacing the roof top a/c, though has changed to you insisting there is no reason to carry 2 Honda generators on an rv, and that you don’t like Hondas. I do agree with your logic on most of this however two pieces you are missing. I already have Two Honda generators, why would I go buy the cheap thing from harbor freight? It would break on me, and I think it is dishonest to do the switcheroo. Soo, my option is make the 2 Hondas work.  And second, you have been given a few good reasons why we like Honda, you just have different values and expectations.

The axle thing, I am far less worried about weight breaking my axle, I am more worried about the 300 hp of my engine doing so. There are options if mine does break, including an upgrade to a completely different axle, problem solved.

The weight on the rear unweighting my front wheel , lucky for me I had a class of engineering graduates in my railroad class this week and I posed the problem to them. The problem is really a lever and force problem. There are 8 feet from the rear axle to the trailer hitch, and 16 feet from rear axle to front bumper. So it is a lever, whatever weight you put on the short end (the rear) un weights the front by ½ as much. So my 400 pounds lightens my front by 200 pounds. No big deal. Not worried.

You are also assuming I reinforced the frame so it would support the 400 pounds. What I did would be MAJOR over kill for that. My real reason is I want to be ready if needed to tow something if needed, all the steal is for that reason, not the generators.

So now that is said, I would like some help.

My issue is I live in Denver and camp at 9000 feet some times! I would love to just use one of my generators, I did buy the Mach 1 you recommended hoping It would work. Now it seams it may not. Will I or should I install the cap thing you are all speaking about? I defiantly need more info on that.

I will be using the crap out of the AC, while driving. So this system needs to work well.

I will do a write up on changing out the a/c with photos to help others thinking about it.

I am not trying to tell you do anything, other than just take a breath brother, we are just trying to discuss our toys here not win some debate competition. It is ok if people have different views than you.

Again, mtdave, i have no argument with your setup per say..but you do seem to underscore one of the problems with your chosen generators in needing help at 9000 feet.+

You already got 2 of those hondas you say... they aren't working? you don't like HF?

For you I would recommend selling them and slapping that EU3000 on the back of that rack; problem at elevation solved and with a honda.

I am assuming that you got the Mach 1 power saver edition. If you did it should weigh in at 85 lbs. If its 100 + you got a regular Mach 1...

You seem to have the resources to do that and money is no object for success its assumed since you put 300 hp of it under the hood.

I don't need a breather I rather enjoy engaging people in discussions. Nope, I don't feel I need to back down and like Tom Petty I won't.

By the way ALL of us are under the lib hit list for even thinking of running generators while driving anyway... I don't think we need to run 2 of them and risk further carbon tax liabilities right?

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2016 by Totem

[jjrbus]

3 hours ago, Totem said:

 DEFINITELY would NOT start a 13500 BTU rooftop unit.

Oh yes they will!

[Totem]

12 minutes ago, jjrbus said:

 

no they wont; not at 9000 feet. not at 7000 feet.. maybe on the beach at 60 degrees but prolly not. and definitely not without a hard start cap anywhere.

you are free to prove me wrong of course.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Totem