Replace rooftop AC

[payaso del mar]

not sure the quality of Chinese weaponry necessarily tells us much about the rest of their consumer goods.  I doubt their military hardware is as crappy as much of their other stuff.   i'm not an AK guy (Ruger makes the Mini30 for those who like the cartridge but would like to be able to consistently hit things at 200+ meters) but my understanding is that Chinese AKs and SKSs are far from the worst clones out there.

you're probably familiar with the expression "anecdote does not = data".....ie, you need a statistically valid sample size to be able to make broad scale projections.  you agree?

here's the ratings breakdown on Amazon for the Eu1000, based on 103 reviews.....apparently the unicorn makes an appearance for a lot of the buyers

4.7 out of 5 stars

5 star		85%
4 star		7%
3 star		2%
2 star		0%
1 star		6%

 

 

 

 

so 85% of the buyers give it the highest possible rating.

and here' are the ratings from HF on the Predator 2500:

REVIEW SNAPSHOT®

by PowerReviews

Predator Generators2500 Peak/2200 Running Watts, 4.7 HP (125cc) Portable Inverter Generator EPA III

3.8  (based on 149 reviews)

Ratings Distribution

• 5 Stars

   

  (70)

• 4 Stars

   

  (37)

• 3 Stars

   

  (13)

• 2 Stars

   

  (4)

• 1 Stars

   

  (25)

 

75%

of respondents would recommend this to a friend.

 

I realized the real reason I gravitate toward Honda generators last night...........

 

 

 

 

because Toyota doesn't make generators as far as i'm aware so I buy the next closest thing! 

Edited May 17, 2016 by payaso del mar

[Totem]

16 hours ago, payaso del mar said:

not sure the quality of Chinese weaponry necessarily tells us much about the rest of their consumer goods.  I doubt their military hardware is as crappy as much of their other stuff.   i'm not an AK guy (Ruger makes the Mini30 for those who like the cartridge but would like to be able to consistently hit things at 200+ meters) but my understanding is that Chinese AKs and SKSs are far from the worst clones out there.

you're probably familiar with the expression "anecdote does not = data".....ie, you need a statistically valid sample size to be able to make broad scale projections.  you agree?

here's the ratings breakdown on Amazon for the Eu1000, based on 103 reviews.....apparently the unicorn makes an appearance for a lot of the buyers

4.7 out of 5 stars

5 star		85%
4 star		7%
3 star		2%
2 star		0%
1 star		6%

 

 

 

 

so 85% of the buyers give it the highest possible rating.

and here' are the ratings from HF on the Predator 2500:

REVIEW SNAPSHOT®

by PowerReviews

Predator Generators2500 Peak/2200 Running Watts, 4.7 HP (125cc) Portable Inverter Generator EPA III

3.8  (based on 149 reviews)

Ratings Distribution

• 5 Stars

   

  (70)

• 4 Stars

   

  (37)

• 3 Stars

   

  (13)

• 2 Stars

   

  (4)

• 1 Stars

   

  (25)

 

75%

of respondents would recommend this to a friend.

 

I realized the real reason I gravitate toward Honda generators last night...........

 

 

 

 

because Toyota doesn't make generators as far as i'm aware so I buy the next closest thing! 

 

 

Indeed, then you have definitely selected the wrong brand in Honda.. because Yamaha has made the cylinder heads and been a key partner of toyota for years on both the ZZ, S etc series engines. I am unaware of a relationship with Honda and toyota; so in fact i call shenanigans on the "next best thing to a Toyota" based on brand argument.

 

Also, your anecdotal evidence pulled from Amazon ... did it include data form Verified purchasers only? Everyone knows about the star feedback scamming going on in Amazon; basically they will let you add feedback on a product without purchasing it where as HF will not. -Couple that with the fact that absolutely no one who spends that much on a generator is apt to give a non emotional answer and the results are clear; Honda is no better than any other or at the very least not worth DOUBLE the price.

In fact I would say marginally the only advantage they have possibly may be distributor locations but even then.. HF has a LOT of stores.

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Totem

[payaso del mar]

3 hours ago, Totem said:

absolutely no one who spends that much on a generator is apt to give a non emotional answer

I respectfully disagree.  no, a genny isn't an "emotional" purchase, but that factor we were discussing, where people tend not to want to admit errors when they've dropped $600-1000, is still at play....on both Predators and Hondas.

i'll be the first to admit that on a bang for the buck approach, you're most of the time better off with the $5-600 unit.  but that same logic proves that chuck steak is better than rib eye (comparable nutritional value) and a V8 kitcar is better than a 911 (just as fast).  surprise, some people still are willing to drop the $.  and no, they're not all ignorant idiots who believe in pink unicorns.  granted, one pays a lot for that extra margin of reliability and quality.

I wasn't referring to corporate partnerships, but more to philosophical approach....the "do it right" plan.  I've owned and loved bikes of all 4 jap brands, and there is a noticeable difference in engineering approach between them.  Yamaha tends to make techno flash stuff which is often brilliant and cutting edge.....but Honda sweats the living-with-it-from-day-to-day details far better.  ironically, this falls down IMHO when applied to cars.....but maybe it's just because Honda is now being compared to Toyota.

and i'm not claiming that you "can't" get parts for HF etc gennies.....I am claiming that I have been buying parts for small engines of various types for many years and that I can usually still find most of the stuff for Hondas that are even 30+ years old.   I haven't had the same success with older Yamahas.  I am skeptical that parts for Chinese gennies will be widely available 30+ yrs down the road.   If Nissan made (or badged) a gen, i'd consider that as fast as the Honda, based on their proven-excellent small Tohatsu outboards.. 

[Derek up North]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=nissan+generator&biw=1025&bih=476&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjd9Ojes-TMAhVk04MKHXlJDJ4QsAQIGg

[Totem]

yesss... NISSAN.... whats the reason for not going with NISSAN, payaso?

lol... love the devils advocate Derek! (btw I am humbly just arguing an anti honda viewpoint not telling you to go HF which is only $499.

[payaso del mar]

none.  who first mentioned NISSAN in this discussion??  if they made what I was looking for:  a variable speed inverter generator.

[Totem]

Derek just posted several nissan inverter picks ... See his link above..click the link to see them. I too was unaware of them till he posted

[linda s]

The Nissan portable generators haven't been made in many years. I've only seen a few ever for sale and like Derek's link they were all low wattage.

Linda S

[mtdave2]

so, back to the AC unit. I have 2 hondas 2000 already so my goal is to just use one. the  Mach 1 11000  that you bought will run fine with my one honda? I am ready to buy the thing and install it, just want to be sure it will do what I am wanting it to. 

will I need to get the hard start cap thing you were talking about? 

[jjrbus]

I have been reading alot about this and if I bought the 11k power saver I would take both Hondas on the first trip!   Not saying it would not work, but I would not trust it to be dependable. Spring or Fall, low elevations, cool weather, low humidity would probably be ok.   I could be wrong!

Only my opinion and worth what you are paying for it.

[Totem]

Hope you don't mind buying a new axle then. Seems a bit silly to spend dollars to save dimes just to wear a unicorn teeshirt.

[payaso del mar]

 please, where do i get one of those unicorn tee shirts?  Honda has been building small engines for a long time that stand up to hard duty and even abuse.  http://www.norra.com/m1k_bikes_scoring.php?stage=overall          be sure to let us know when Harbor Freight enters a team in the Baja 1000.......and especially if they win or even finish.  No, this doesn't translate directly to gennies.....but it tells us something about engineering for adverse conditions, esp when they're going head to head with the best that high end dirt bike maker KTM has to offer.  Lots of these bikes are old crocks (XR650R hasn't been built in 10 years, XR600 hasn't been built since mid90s), maintained by folks like us.  and they can get parts for em..........

JD mentioned Hyundais in another thread, and those look like a possible option if weight isn't critical (70 lbs vs about 47 for the Honda "2000") and you can live with a bit more noise.  not much more $ than the off brands ($550) but company still likely to be around in 20-30 years when you need parts.  but be sure to read the negative reviews on the Hyundai........http://www.amazon.com/Hyundai-HY2000si-Starting-Portable-Compliant/product-reviews/B004919NEK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewpnt_rgt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=helpful&filterByStar=critical&pageNumber=1

[Totem]

except you were going to bring TWO 47 honda 2000's... and pay $2000 to do it. and then you will break your axle. last time I did math, (and this is not the common core method with beans and jars like some prefer today) 47 x 2 was 94... As to "negative reviews" I have been running mine like a slave for 3 years now. its not only run my camper its run my cabin for days and days straight and it has witnessed the death of a briggs & S worksite generator that was purchased at same time by my buddy that was a 3500 that ONLY ran at the cabin.

SO.. I must be either very lucky; or your desire to carry 2 hondas and spend that much money running a 100 lbs air condition while burning twice the fossil fuels in 2 gennys is simply not econiomically efficient and places and extra 60 lbs in the rig - all on the rear section...add in kinetic up and down motion encountered on roads coupled with the fulcrum of the weight on the back and you are playing with fire on that setup but hey; look at this cool shirt.

ridiculous.

[mtdave2]

Not sure why you are so combative Totem. Do you really want everyone to be like you? How boring would that be! If we like the Honda, so what? No skin off your nose, and perhaps we are not as lucky as you are. If I buy cheap stuff it breaks quickly, Honda is a great generator, it's proven reliable and has set the standard others are chasing. Even if it in your mind doesn't make sense, why berate others for deciding that Hondas make sense for them?

I am not sure why you feel that a few hundred pounds will make our axles break, people overload these rigs often and do so without breaking the axel. The weight on the rear is something to think about, though I have not experienced what you are describing even with 400+ pounds on the hitch and full holding tanks. I wish I was a math wiz and could work out the actual math, but I would guess it would take a lot more that 400 pounds to take enough weight off the front wheels to cause an issue. Exspeancly if you had added more weight to the front with a different engine and hefty front bumper.

you seem to be very knowable with the electronic stuff and I wish you would spend more time sharing that with us instead of telling us how dumb we are to want to use Honda generators.

Would you mind helping me with my ac question I posted? I did order the ac unit you suggested, though I had to pay 130 more than you cuz of shipping. A write up of the swap that you did would be very helpful. I hope to do the swap this weekend!

Any suggestions for  tests to do while I have the original Ac installed to help document the benefits of the mach 1 swap?

[jjrbus]

[jjrbus]

1 hour ago, mtdave2 said:

Any suggestions for  tests to do while I have the original Ac installed to help document the benefits of the mach 1 swap?

What is your original unit?   Will one Honda run it, and at what outside temp and what is your elevation?  Is there a hard start capacitor installed?  If you have the equipment, amp/wattage draws would be nice to know.

Jim

   

[Totem]

sorry mtdave; but you seem to espouse that I have no rights to an opine; even an excessively fearful one such as breaking an axle - on a thread that I started ; after all when i suggested a rebuild on my motor and head in another I had to endure the frothing from several people in here on burning extra gas, decreases in efficiency etc. No, my opinion is still present and valid; and while it was aimed at jjrbus and not you per say, I sincerely hope that the notion that carrying two generators out of a fear of a lessor named brand of product failing while adding risk of ( Toyota failure ) the primary reason we are all in here and double the cost is not any more extreme or perceived to be any more "combative".  the reason I feel this way is simple; the rig is already grossly overweight and so each pound is precious; i once argued to put a mini compressor on board my rig and suffered the same blather; so now I will call a spade a spade; using a Honda generator is not "dumb" provided it suits the purpose of the 3 F's of engineering ; form fit and function.

If you need 2 of them to function and then you need to weld 85 lbs of steel, etc etc, my comments and advice are sage and not insulting, you will see this eventually and in fact there is another article in here from a gentlemen

whom had a full floater fail if memory serves; so another skill I posess in addition to electronics is reading recollection. Please do me a favor on a thread I started and do not try to tell me what to share when it could be the difference between a running rig and walking while cursing. I invite and respect your work on the rig, but facts are facts and these machines just because they have a name brand are not in fact Unicorns any more than a full floater is a magic axle that can take absolutely anything under the sun.

You paid more for shipping because presumably you did not ship to a commercial dock, as I did. You can reduce that cost next time at a buddy's work place.

As for testing, yes. do NOT test any other AC on your dual generators UNTIL you have the mach 1 PS in place; doing so you risk frying your expensive units and their tandem cable and circuitry especially if you have not added a hard start capacitor..

And to your first quest, of course , i like myself that much and am such a narcissist it should go without question that I am awesome.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Totem

[Totem]

1 hour ago, jjrbus said:

What is your original unit?   Will one Honda run it, and at what outside temp and what is your elevation?  Is there a hard start capacitor installed?  If you have the equipment, amp/wattage draws would be nice to know.

Jim

   

^ now that is my point. taking 2 2000's is rediculous... you should only need one. and if not get a 3000.

[jjrbus]

Just now, Totem said:

^ now that is my point. taking 2 2000's is rediculous... you should only need one. and if not get a 3000.

It's ridiculous for you!  I carried 2 Honda's, I thought of it as redundancy and seemed  brilliant at the time.  1 3000 is a bit of a struggle for an old guy to move around, 2 2000's are easy.  Simplifies things at the divorce also.

 

 

 

[Derek up North]

I don't recall anyone reporting a FF axle failing from overloading.

[Totem]

you may as well tow another Toyota behind your first one with that mindset. being so fearful of a generator made by any other company than Honda to the point where you would pay double x 2 (and redundancy is no argument in august with only 1 2000 that cannot start the AC on its own) . 

Lets just do a didactic truth table on this for fun.

The following assumptions are assumed to be true:

• We MUST have AC
• Our Toyota MUST not be broken down on side of road while driving with wife
• the generator solution must be capable of running the AC
• the weight placed on the rig must be minimized as the rig is grossly overloaded

So the answer to this is:

• weld 85 lbs of steel to the rig so that it wont break the frame from supporting the weight of
• massive box(s) to house 2 generators that must be run in tandem in order to start the AC also adding weight
• paying 2 times the average cost for an inverter generator to get perceived name value and
• if one of the 2 breaks down have the other as a spare even though on its own it cannot run the AC
• having twice the things to be stolen
• consuming twice the fuel
• producing twice the emissions

 

 

yup... I get it... Unicorn.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Totem

[Totem]

3 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

I don't recall anyone reporting a FF axle failing from overloading.

Its ok, you didn't recall the 5 lug foolie on a sunrader either. we all have our moments.

[Derek up North]

Well, since you never (apparently) have moments, why don't you find the FF axle fail report then. Otherwise, it didn't happen.

[Totem]

And if I do, you surrender your admin access to me... deal?

Edited May 24, 2016 by Totem

[Totem]

<crickets>...

derek dont agree... I have you. hint... tundrawolf. you may stop searching now... it happend. yup boom.

49538

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by Totem

[payaso del mar]

46 minutes ago, Totem said:

2 times the average cost for an inverter generator to get perceived name value

that's one way to put it. or you could say 2x the cost of a cheaper knockoff* to get the known solid engineering and durability I've been accustomed to on all my other Honda-engine stuff over the last 35 years.  I guess you'd say all the people who opted for a Camry or Accord instead of a cheaper Malibu over the last howevermany years are stupid too?  the cheapest thing is not always the best, or even necessarily the cheapest in the 20+ yr long run.

*i'm sure it's only coincidental that many of them are red.

 

remember when you're setting up straw men to debate that i'm coming at this from the standpoint of a motorcycle mechanic, not a unicorn enthusiast, and that a single 1000W Honda would probably run the AC if you don't need a massive roof unit.  my toyhome has what looks to be a modified wall unit of 5800 btu, which the amperage draw math indicates should run fine on the 1000.  i'm only looking at the 2000 because I figure the 2000 running at 1/2 load will produce less noise and eat less fuel than a 1000 running full tilt boogie.

1 hour ago, Totem said:

another skill I posess in addition to electronics is reading recollection

then you probably recall a few pages back where I acknowledged that the bang for the $ award goes elsewhere than Honda.  not everyone needs top grade equipment, esp if you usually camp near a Harbor Fright. 

but for those of us who like to camp in places like back country Mexico, there's a certain comfort in knowing they sweated the details back at the factory and the design floor, and that I can clean the carb if needed.  And while all manufactured products can have issues and Hondas are not immune, the % rate is a lot lower than on a cheap knockoff.  putting it another way:  when you make what is generally acknowledged to be the class of the field, to the point that what you make has spawned an entire class of imitators (inverter gennies) but still sells like hotcakes at 2X their price, you have a VERY good incentive to keep the quality control up.....people's expectations are higher for a Honda or Yamaha than for a HF, and they should be.  some of us are willing to pay for that quality-control-held-to-higher-expectations.  given where I like to camp, that includes me.  you see any HArbor Freight stores in this picture to switcheroo your dead generator? 

and besides, with the team of unicorns lifting the back end of my rig, I don't even need to worry about weight on the rear axle........

 

 

[jjrbus]

4 minutes ago, payaso del mar said:

that's one way to put it. or you could say 2x the cost of a cheaper knockoff* to get the known solid engineering and durability I've been accustomed to on all my other Honda-engine stuff over the last 35 years.  I guess you'd say all the people who opted for a Camry or Accord instead of a cheaper Malibu over the last howevermany years are stupid too?  the cheapest thing is not always the best, or even necessarily the cheapest in the 20+ yr long run.

*i'm sure it's only coincidental that many of them are red.

 

remember when you're setting up straw men to debate that i'm coming at this from the standpoint of a motorcycle mechanic, not a unicorn enthusiast, and that a single 1000W Honda would probably run the AC if you don't need a massive roof unit.  my toyhome has what looks to be a modified wall unit of 5800 btu, which the amperage draw math indicates should run fine on the 1000.  i'm only looking at the 2000 because I figure the 2000 running at 1/2 load will produce less noise and eat less fuel than a 1000 running full tilt boogie.

then you probably recall a few pages back where I acknowledged that the bang for the $ award goes elsewhere than Honda.  not everyone needs top grade equipment, esp if you usually camp near a Harbor Fright. 

but for those of us who like to camp in places like back country Mexico, there's a certain comfort in knowing they sweated the details back at the factory and the design floor, and that I can clean the carb if needed.  And while all manufactured products can have issues and Hondas are not immune, the % rate is a lot lower than on a cheap knockoff.  putting it another way:  when you make what is generally acknowledged to be the class of the field, to the point that what you make has spawned an entire class of imitators (inverter gennies) but still sells like hotcakes at 2X their price, you have a VERY good incentive to keep the quality control up.....people's expectations are higher for a Honda or Yamaha than for a HF, and they should be.  some of us are willing to pay for that quality-control-held-to-higher-expectations.  given where I like to camp, that includes me.  you see any HArbor Freight stores in this picture to switcheroo your dead generator? 

and besides, with the team of unicorns lifting the back end of my rig, I don't even need to worry about weight on the rear axle........

 

 

In what way is your wall unit modified and how is it mounted?       Jim

[payaso del mar]

I'm not 100% sure it was a wall unit but it fits in a cabinet just above the furnace and the hot air exits through a simple return air grille on the outside wall, turned so the louvers face down ....i realize that's not much help w/o pix, i'll try to shoot some and take measurements tonight.  I am pretty sure that when it dies, I can fit a 5-6000 btu window unit in the space, even if I have to take the guts of the new unit out of the housing it came in.  and I suspect a modern 5-6000 btu unit will put out a lot more cold air than this noisy old cranky thing....looks to be a hybrid of a household unit and an aftermarket car A/C.  might not work for you but since you're redoing the cabinets anyway.....

[Derek up North]

2 hours ago, Totem said:

<crickets>...

derek dont agree... I have you. hint... tundrawolf. you may stop searching now... it happend. yup boom.

49538

 

You're being far too cryptic. Why not just post a link to the relevant Thread about a FF axle failure due to overloading?

 

[jjrbus]

2 hours ago, payaso del mar said:

I'm not 100% sure it was a wall unit but it fits in a cabinet just above the furnace and the hot air exits through a simple return air grille on the outside wall, turned so the louvers face down ....i realize that's not much help w/o pix, i'll try to shoot some and take measurements tonight.  I am pretty sure that when it dies, I can fit a 5-6000 btu window unit in the space, even if I have to take the guts of the new unit out of the housing it came in.  and I suspect a modern 5-6000 btu unit will put out a lot more cold air than this noisy old cranky thing....looks to be a hybrid of a household unit and an aftermarket car A/C.  might not work for you but since you're redoing the cabinets anyway.....

Last year I tinkered with modding a 8K window unit to fit in a roof air carcass.  It got a bit out of hand, I suspect I started with the wrong donor and lacked the resources and time to pursue it.  Would be interesting to see what you have.  I still might pursue it again sometime down the road.   I think the ideal set up would be 2 small units converted to roof airs.

                                                                Jim

[Totem]

Payaso there is no valid argument for carrying 2 generators on one of these overloaded rigs. Its wasteful and wreckless and fueled only by namebrand. You were the strawman bringing in other brands ; the issue i have is the placement and burning of 2 units. That kind of thing is for 5th wheels towed by a Ram. Mic drop out.

[Totem]

13 hours ago, Derek up North said:

You're being far too cryptic. Why not just post a link to the relevant Thread about a FF axle failure due to overloading?

 

I just posted its db id and the person who posted.  Good enough for me. Putting a link would be too combative and these guys dont want to believe the axles can fail do lets let them have that, like santa but with a couple hondas.

[jjrbus]

1 hour ago, Totem said:

Payaso there is no valid argument for carrying 2 generators on one of these overloaded rigs. Its wasteful and wreckless and fueled only by namebrand. You were the strawman bringing in other brands ; the issue i have is the placement and burning of 2 units. That kind of thing is for 5th wheels towed by a Ram. Mic drop out.

Redundancy would be a valid argument, not that I like to argue.      2 Honda's @ 92 lbs, replacing a microlite 2800 @ 113 lbs is a 21 lb savings, plus now having an xtra 400 watts of power to impress people with.    

[Totem]

or ditch the honda and get a 2500 watt single 70 lbs solution.. and again there is no redundancy if AC is the goal and you require 2 to run it. I don't understand the resistance to the idea; you have plenty of inverter genny companies offering lighter solutions that actually make enough power to run the AC without the duality; so again you are LESS redundant as you REQUIRE TWO running units. Now if you are seriously going to tell me that multiplying the number of units by 2 doesnt also double the possibility of a fail I am will simply have to laugh; 1 of those gennys, it was stated, can NOT run the AC.. and therefor is useless without both.

 

Here's another thought... if Honda is so awesome why cant they make a light weight mid class that you can lift that can run a rooftop in one unit? perhaps the name is not worth what you think.

Ive already posted a guy that opened one up... it was cheap and plastic. and it was also dead. and the guy got no support. this was a eu2000. perhaps a diseased unicorn..

Edited May 25, 2016 by Totem

[jjrbus]

This is from a guy who tested his AC and genset on a 73° degree day and declared it a success!  Come 95° and 60% humidity you may have a 70lb anchor!   I hope you don't as another option is always nice to have.

In my experience I would not tell anyone to leave home with 1 small genset and be depending on it to run a roof air, without testing it first! The reports on this are all over the place and of course rarely include, temp, humidity or elevation.