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Gasoline is not explosive in liquid form.  Hopefully if you spring a gasoline leak - you will smell it before it makes a cloud of vapor if that is possible. My 65 GTO used have the carbs flood and catch fire often.  In fact, many 60s GTOs with tri-power had three little round burn marks in the hood from small fires. No explosions that I heard about.

Many of the old Freon alternative fix-it cans had a lot of propane in them.   Seems the propane they use is odorless too.  So unlike the propane in our propane tanks (in our RVs), the stuff used as refrigerant seems not to have any odor-added.  Not saying it is dangerous.  Can't say I've ever heard of an AC system filled with propane blowing up either.

134A is cheap - so far.  I cannot find any good reason to use an R12 alternative instead of retrofitting to 134A.  I've done over a dozen R12 ro 134A conversions with few issues.  My 1994 Ford F250 still has its factory-charge of R12 and over 300K miles.  I hope it stays in there.

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20$ a can for two cans vs changing the hoses and oil and the conversion kit. Sounds like a deal to me.

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I spent a great amount of time and effort to convert to 134a.  I replaced all parts of my AC system and spent many hours on the web learning how to evacuate and properly charge the system.

While all this is going on I have an acquaintance telling me to go to Wal Mart and buy a couple of cans of snake oil and jam it in there, never a problem.  While he is telling me this he does not mention that he is on his second compressor since I have known him! Before I left Florida on this trip he was buying his third AC compressor! Claims the compressors they are selling today are junk :rolleyes:

What I did learn from all this is that we convert to 134a because R12 is expensive and hard to buy. Was true some time ago, now most of the cars that are on the road are 134a and there is lots of R12 on the market so the price is dropping. It appears there is a glut of R12.

If I had it to do again I would stick with the R12, only my opinion and experience.    HTH  Jim

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12 hours ago, WME said:

20$ a can for two cans vs changing the hoses and oil and the conversion kit. Sounds like a deal to me.

Yes, if it does not leak back out when done. I suspect with most "repair' jobs, it does.  AC leaks can be pretty elusive and just because an AC system holds a vacuum for 24 hours does not mean it will not leak under pressure.  Many people have stuck their $40-$50 worth of R12 in there, just to have it gone a week later.  Besides - where was the leak to start with?  If the system is dead - there is obvisously a leak. Might mean the rubber hoses need to be changed anyway.

Typical conversion to 134A costs around $25-$30.   If you do it and find more leaks to fix, you are only out $10 worth of gas and you can buy more legally and locally.  

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10 hours ago, jjrbus said:

 

What I did learn from all this is that we convert to 134a because R12 is expensive and hard to buy. Was true some time ago, now most of the cars that are on the road are 134a and there is lots of R12 on the market so the price is dropping. It appears there is a glut of R12.

.    HTH  Jim

Where is this "glut" of cheap R12? Most I see is $30-$40 per 12 ounce can and you need a license to use it (if you want to be legal).   Please steer me towards any "cheap" R12. I'd love to have some.

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Yeah, no surprise. I already mentioned I've see some sell for $20 a can. Not exactly a "glut" at that price though.  Most are $30 to $40 per can and all require a license to install if anyone cares about being legal. 

No such license required for 134A.

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What happened to cheap?  The average person not experienced with working on AC is not even going to pass that test unless some learning takes place.  Then there is the cost of Freon.  Then is the risk of losing it from a small leak after recharging (very common).   Hey - I like Freon and I've been licensed to service equipment with it for years. Not the point, or at least not mine.  134A overall to the average person is a lot cheaper and forgiving overall.   Nothing is different in a R12 system versus a 134A system other than some changes in the evaporator.   Subsequently, some original  R12 systems do not work as well with 134A unless it happens to be something a bigger evaporator is available for.  I'd much prefer R12 over 134A if R12 was not so expensive.  But it is.

 

 

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I've heard propane works great for a refrigerant.  Not brave enough to ever try it myself.  The idea of having flammable propane running in rubber hoses in pressures up near 300 PSI is kind of scary.  A burst hose and any kind of spark seems would make quite a bang or flame.  R12 is harmless that way. In fact, the first shop I worked in we used a flame-tester for R12 leaks.  That is before we knew that putting a flame to R12 makes a fatal nerve-gas.

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4 hours ago, jdemaris said:

Yeah, no surprise. I already mentioned I've see some sell for $20 a can. Not exactly a "glut" at that price though.  Most are $30 to $40 per can and all require a license to install if anyone cares about being legal. 

No such license required for 134A.

   If you go to completed sales on Ebay you will see very little of the R12 is being sold at the inflated prices. asking $50 a can does not mean they are selling it for that.   Then cheap is relative,cheaper than converting, I certainly think so!    Like I said knowing what I know now I would stick with R12 and keep an eye on flea mkts and garage sales for a supply.

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I have never seen any R12 ever at a yard sale or flea market.  Maybe things are different in Florida.  I did not search "completed sales" at Ebay since I find it a waste of time. I checked all that is actually for sale, right now, with a price (i.e. "buy it now").   Hey, to each his own.   That includes opinions.

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14 hours ago, jjrbus said:

   If you go to completed sales on Ebay you will see very little of the R12 is being sold at the inflated prices.

I said most are $30-$40 a can and from I see, that is what most have sold for. I have no idea where you are finding a "glut" of cheap ones.  Here are the first five "sold" that come up on Ebay right now.

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So I have discovered that the DKS15BH in our rigs is not really that but more like a TM15HD.. I bought an 58521 4 seasons from summit racing which states it is a DKS15BH replacement new not re manufactured, I wanted new so not to have to worry about it. However the manifold is not the same and it does not fit! Sorry RiggerRob yours likely isn't going to fit either... A motor mount is in the way... It would be possible to mount it with only 2 of the 3 bolts but that would leave the bottom loose and flooping around. And requires plugging up the High pressure port as well as getting an angled adapter for the low pressure port. I did also see the option of using spacers and longer bolts to mount it making the inside grove line up with the crank pulley. But that also seems ill advised and would involve more modding.. I actually looked on the back of my compressor something that couldn't be done with it mounted and got this part number 48822022B. And upon googling it found this. http://aczk18.com/products.asp?/2229.html

And yes 57511 is at summit but they want $300 plus a core of $20. So I did some more searching and found this one on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-C-Compressor-Compressor-4-Seasons-57511-Reman-fits-85-88-Autocar-ACL-14-6L-L6-/351793281721?hash=item51e8837ab9:g:Sr0AAOSwHoFXvTUV&vxp=mtr

Just got off the phone with summit and they PRICE MATCHED! So i'm getting one shipped directly from 4 seasons for the same price as the one on ebay! This is my first experience with Summit but it surely won't be my last! 5 star service!!

As far as the R12/134 discussion. I'm going to be doing 134a this new compressor is Pag46 oil previous owner replaced 2 lines and I just replaced the other two due to leaks plus I'm replacing the drier and Expansion Valve and flushing everything really good so I may as well. And Menard's has it cheaper then Ebay right now in my area (WI) 4.88 a can for 134a. Also if you want to reclaim refrigerant all you need is empty cans of R12 or 134a, hell maybe even a propane tank lol, hook them up to your system and put them in a salt+ice+water bath. Let sit and it will pull the refrigerant out of your system! Cooling the gas that collects in the can when you hook it up will compress it causing a vacuum which = more gas which = more vacuum next thing you know you have a full can of refrigerant!! Dry ice will work better but if your not in a hurry and want to save a buck ice,salt, and water will work slower.

 

Edited by zulandio
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On 9/17/2016 at 9:04 AM, jdemaris said:

Where is this "glut" of cheap R12? Most I see is $30-$40 per 12 ounce can and you need a license to use it (if you want to be legal).   Please steer me towards any "cheap" R12. I'd love to have some.

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Looks like I am wrong on the glut!  After I converted to 134a there was a large amount of r12 on the market, it was going unsold on Ebay.   

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Replacement compressor showed up today. Drier is part number 33318 (that's what it was at O'Reilly)  Compressor 57511, and expansion valve 38608 hoses made at local radiatior shop flushing with acetone then ac flush after. 

 

And no need for these adapters I got now since this has the flare fittings. 

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EPA 609 states that it is illegal to sell it to some with out the certificate. Yes you can apply for a licence but you'll need the recycling gear to go along with it. Yes it's done every day that does not make it right why not just do it right in the first place and be done with it? Propane under pressure as a liquid expands to 270 X it's volume once the pressure is released you want that under your hood when the hose blows out?

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On 9/18/2016 at 9:01 PM, zulandio said:

So I have discovered that the DKS15BH in our rigs is not really that but more like a TM15HD.. I bought an 58521 4 seasons from summit racing which states it is a DKS15BH replacement new not re manufactured, I wanted new so not to have to worry about it. However the manifold is not the same and it does not fit! Sorry RiggerRob yours likely isn't going to fit either... A motor mount is in the way... It would be possible to mount it with only 2 of the 3 bolts but that would leave the bottom loose and flooping around. And requires plugging up the High pressure port as well as getting an angled adapter for the low pressure port. I did also see the option of using spacers and longer bolts to mount it making the inside grove line up with the crank pulley. But that also seems ill advised and would involve more modding.. I actually looked on the back of my compressor something that couldn't be done with it mounted and got this part number 48822022B. And upon googling it found this. http://aczk18.com/products.asp?/2229.html

And yes 57511 is at summit but they want $300 plus a core of $20. So I did some more searching and found this one on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-C-Compressor-Compressor-4-Seasons-57511-Reman-fits-85-88-Autocar-ACL-14-6L-L6-/351793281721?hash=item51e8837ab9:g:Sr0AAOSwHoFXvTUV&vxp=mtr

Just got off the phone with summit and they PRICE MATCHED! So i'm getting one shipped directly from 4 seasons for the same price as the one on ebay! This is my first experience with Summit but it surely won't be my last! 5 star service!!

As far as the R12/134 discussion. I'm going to be doing 134a this new compressor is Pag46 oil previous owner replaced 2 lines and I just replaced the other two due to leaks plus I'm replacing the drier and Expansion Valve and flushing everything really good so I may as well. And Menard's has it cheaper then Ebay right now in my area (WI) 4.88 a can for 134a. Also if you want to reclaim refrigerant all you need is empty cans of R12 or 134a, hell maybe even a propane tank lol, hook them up to your system and put them in a salt+ice+water bath. Let sit and it will pull the refrigerant out of your system! Cooling the gas that collects in the can when you hook it up will compress it causing a vacuum which = more gas which = more vacuum next thing you know you have a full can of refrigerant!! Dry ice will work better but if your not in a hurry and want to save a buck ice,salt, and water will work slower.

After spending many hours researching and many dollars on parts I refused to put made in China by lowest bidder 134a of unknown composition in my system!

http://www.labnews.co.uk/features/a-chilling-story-23-10-2012/

The people on the DIY AC forum also suggest not using it.            Jim

 

 

 

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