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Very popular out in the woods especially where the sun doesn't shine much. As for Dometic not being the same company, large multinational companies go through lots of ownership changes with the core still being essentially the same. They also own Waeco, Attwood and a ton of other RV and marine product companies. Focus has not changed.

Linda S

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10 hours ago, linda s said:

 Focus has not changed.

Linda S

Yes, and that main focus has always been for use in Caravans AKA RVs.    Not because it is an efficient method of cooling. Sometimes in some places it was the only viable method used with propane, kerosene, and even firewood at times.  It offers the convenience of a "one fuel" setup in camper.  If someone has a cabin off-grid and wants efficient cooling - absorption technology takes a  back seat to compressor-refrigeration.  The latter is much more efficient.  Now adays in an RV?  Much has changed in the past 20 years and it is no longer the only OEM choice of cooling food in an RV. 

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Here are some figures on refrigeration and types of fuels and costs. Not always easy to make direct-line comparisons, but I tried.  Also - about Dometic.  Personally - I think their service stinks.  I called them last month for some parts info on the refrigerator in my 1988 Minicruiser.  They could not even come up with old part #s for me, much less new parts.  Now - maybe they are better in Europe - I don't know. I recently tried to get some parts for my West German Stihl chain-saw.  1987 vintage but a  high-end professional saw.  Stihl USA told me it is obsolete and no parts available anywhere.  Then I later found out that sellers in West Germany had all the parts I needed.  So, who knows?  In my world-view - a company like Dometic who deals with built-in refrigerators in RVs that often only get used a few weeks a year - ought to have better support for a product made in 1988.  That  being said - I just had a 15 year old Jenn-Air oven crap out in our house and the replacement board is "obsolete" and "not repairable" according to the company.  So, maybe this is what I should expect with anything USA now adays.

I know this.  At our remote cabin in the NY Adirondacks - for years we used a pair of 4 cubic foot absorption refrigerators (one Dometic and one Japanese Travl'r). If we stayed for two weeks in mid-summer and had our 20 lb. tanks filled at the local campground - it took $35 in propane for that two weeks.  When we later switched to a large tank and had a gas  guy fill it once a year - two weeks using propane cost $16.80.  We then switched to a Sundanzer 5.8 cubic foot compressor refrigerator powered by a pair of 120 watt solar panels and one 110 AH battery and then cost for two weeks was a total of $1.68 and no running around for propane refills.  Note my $1.68 for two weeks is based on a cost-per-day projection of a solar electric system with a 20 year life.  

 

My AC vertical Samsung 4 cubic foot chest refrigerator hooked to an inverter.

430 watt-hours per day @ 70 degrees F

 

My AC chest Igloo 3.5 cubic foot refrigerator hooked to an inverter

129 watt-hours a day @ 70 degrees F.

 

Sundanzer 5.8 cubic foot chest refrigerator DC power

100 watt-hours per day @ 70 degrees F

 

Dometic vertical 4 cubic foot absorption RV refrigerator

15,600 BTUs per day, equals 4500 watt-hours of electricity

 

Costs?

Propane with a Blue Rhino exchange at Walmart - $1.27 per pound /21,600 BTUs

$1 buys 17,000 BTUs

 

Gasoline - $2 per gallon equals 124,000 BTUs, so $1 buys 62,000 BTUs

 

Grid power - $1 buys 28,500 BTUs

 

Solar power - 560 watt-hours a day for 12 cents a day = 1900 BTUs

$1 buys 15,830 BTU

 

 

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efficient in your definition is of course at heavy expense to your wallet and also of course with the "assumption" that you will get enough sun to power it; which in places like Seattle is not always a given...Propane however will ignite and burn in all circumstances; is readily available and has great energy to weight density; does not require huge lead bricks to store itself in and as Dereck mentioned, can be used to heat and cook. Its really a no brainer; solar panels are fun for off-grid but strapping them and their requirements onto an RV is costly and weight bearing. I also challenge the "efficient" comment you make. How many panels, batteries and inverters would you need to do what OP was looking to do. It seems he tried and it wouldn't work reliably.... so reliability must come into play in the consideration of "efficiency"  a hang glider is more efficient than a plane; but without wind its useless where as the plane can always fly.

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5 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

Here are some figures on refrigeration and types of fuels and costs. Not always easy to make direct-line comparisons, but I tried.  Also - about Dometic.  Personally - I think their service stinks.  I called them last month for some parts info on the refrigerator in my 1988 Minicruiser.  They could not even come up with old part #s for me, much less new parts.  Now - maybe they are better in Europe - I don't know. I recently tried to get some parts for my West German Stihl chain-saw.  1987 vintage but a  high-end professional saw.  Stihl USA told me it is obsolete and no parts available anywhere.  Then I later found out that sellers in West Germany had all the parts I needed.  So, who knows?  In my world-view - a company like Dometic who deals with built-in refrigerators in RVs that often only get used a few weeks a year - ought to have better support for a product made in 1988.  That  being said - I just had a 15 year old Jenn-Air oven crap out in our house and the replacement board is "obsolete" and "not repairable" according to the company.  So, maybe this is what I should expect with anything USA now adays.

I know this.  At our remote cabin in the NY Adirondacks - for years we used a pair of 4 cubic foot absorption refrigerators (one Dometic and one Japanese Travl'r). If we stayed for two weeks in mid-summer and had our 20 lb. tanks filled at the local campground - it took $35 in propane for that two weeks.  When we later switched to a large tank and had a gas  guy fill it once a year - two weeks using propane cost $16.80.  We then switched to a Sundanzer 5.8 cubic foot compressor refrigerator powered by a pair of 120 watt solar panels and one 110 AH battery and then cost for two weeks was a total of $1.68 and no running around for propane refills.  Note my $1.68 for two weeks is based on a cost-per-day projection of a solar electric system with a 20 year life.  

 

My AC vertical Samsung 4 cubic foot chest refrigerator hooked to an inverter.

430 watt-hours per day @ 70 degrees F

 

 

My AC chest Igloo 3.5 cubic foot refrigerator hooked to an inverter

129 watt-hours a day @ 70 degrees F.

 

Sundanzer 5.8 cubic foot chest refrigerator DC power

100 watt-hours per day @ 70 degrees F

 

 

Dometic vertical 4 cubic foot absorption RV refrigerator

15,600 BTUs per day, equals 4500 watt-hours of electricity

 

 

Costs?

Propane with a Blue Rhino exchange at Walmart - $1.27 per pound /21,600 BTUs

$1 buys 17,000 BTUs

 

 

Gasoline - $2 per gallon equals 124,000 BTUs, so $1 buys 62,000 BTUs

 

 

Grid power - $1 buys 28,500 BTUs

 

 

Solar power - 560 watt-hours a day for 12 cents a day = 1900 BTUs

$1 buys 15,830 BTU

 

 

 

that's all great and how MANY panels? how MANY batteries? does it take? seems this is better suited for a cabin not an RV.

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13 hours ago, Derek up North said:

I think one reason they're still around is that a lot of people find it more than convenient to use one fuel source for their fridge, stove and furnace.

Bingo UpNorth. I hate to agree with you but that convenience you mention is the main reason;

1.) great weight to energy density

2.) easier to control a small flame powered by propane to run a heating element that will run a chiller unit than gasoline; - gasoline is liquid and falls and cannot be flowed upwards as reliably in flamepoint

3.) fumes or the lack there of; gasoline burns far dirtier than propane. Who wants to smell that when they are enjoying camping?

4.) Sundanzer 5+ cubic fridges are not cheap at $700 plus, solar panel is at least $120, battery suitable for frequent discharge at 12 if only one $250 or two 6 volt coscos at $160...Sundanzer draws 5 amp according to specs...236 amp hours battery required according to my math...that must be one heck of a 110ah rated battery you have there in some serious sunny areas JDE...or some warm skunky beer.

5.) stock working fridge came with rig (0$ extra if working) and $11 propane will run said fridge for a month or more.

:)

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1 hour ago, Totem said:

that's all great and how MANY panels? how MANY batteries? does it take? seems this is better suited for a cabin not an RV.

Yeah, and my response originally was to the guy who WAS talking about his CABIN (Payaso Del Mar).  Your comments were not specific to RVs as far as I can perceive.  RE "how many solar panels?"  If an RV and just talking about a compressor refrigerator - the answer is "none" if the engine is started and run a bit at least once every two days.  If we are talking about an RV that is parked and not driven - then it seems it no longer has the "vehicle" part of RV being used anymore.   To long-term camp with a compressor refrigerator like the 3.5 cubic foot Igloo I have - a single 100 watt panel would be enough, along with a single 110 AH "house" battery. Not a huge investment and not a lot of added weight. My el-cheapo Igloo that I just put into my Toyota Chinook runs on 129 watt-hours a day when air temps are 70 defrees F.  A single 100 watt solar panel makes 200-300 watt-hours a day.  

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1 hour ago, Totem said:

 

 

 battery suitable for frequent discharge at 12 if only one $250 or two 6 volt coscos at $160...

Sundanzer draws 5 amp according to specs...236 amp hours battery required according to my math...that must be one heck of a 110ah rated battery you have there in some serious sunny areas JDE...or some warm skunky beer.

stock working fridge came with rig (0$ extra if working) and $11 propane will run said fridge for a month or more.

 

Walmart  type 29 battery is projected to last 500 cycles of being discharged 40%. For $90, that is a lot. Note is is also rated for 100 % discharges just like the Trojans. Just cannot handle as many. Walmart is rated for 250 cycles when run stone-dead, and the Trojan is rated for 750 cycles.  For my use? If I discharge our house battery to 40%, 20 times a year it is a lot. At that rate - the Walmart battery would last me 25 years. Obviously not an issue since the battery will die of "old age" long before that.

Walmart Everstart Maxx 29DC, type 29 deep-cycle battery (made by Johnson Controls, flooded-lead-acid).  Cost $90.

 100% discharged – 250 cycles, 80% discharged  – 300 cycles, 60% discharged – 500 cycles, 40% - 800 cycles, 20% discharged – 1500 cycles

The amps the Sundanzer draws when running has nothing to do with any of this. What counts is overall power use per day. That is 100 watt-hours @ 70 degrees F. That is 8.3 amp-hours per day.  Walmart  type 29 "house" battery is rated for 110 amp-hours. Math is not all that difficult. One battery can easily power it for 3-4 days without being severely discharged. YOU use some very strange math.

 Dometic rated their refrigerators made in the 70s-90s at 500-650 BTUs per hour of energy use when air temps are 70 degrees F.  New ones are supposed to be 20% ,more efficient.  A $18 exchange tank at my local Walmart has 324,000 BTUs of energy. A 500 BTUs per hour - that amounts to 27 days of use for $18.  That is about 66 cents a day IF temps do not go over 70 degrees F.  When I was buying propane in the Adirondacks - only place local was a campground and they charged $25 to fill a 20 lb. tank.

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3 hours ago, Totem said:

is readily available

true in the US or Europe.  not always so if you travel elsewhere.....sun is much more readily available in rural Mexico than propane.;)

i'm not trying to argue there's only one right answer here.  i see merit in both approaches depending on your situation.  in a Bandit, weight is always an issue and you can store a hell of a lot of energy in a pound of hydrocarbons.   

but I think JD is right on this when he notes that PV technology is the way of the future and is quickly making propane fridges more or less obsolete, the biggest snag being, yes, the energy storage.  (the person who comes up with better energy storage will make the guy who invented Viagra look like a pauper.....) 

the 150 watt panel I just got for the top of my Bandit weighs about 24 lbs.  it cost me $120 + about 40 shipping.  900 watt-hours a day at 6 hrs/day.  to be conservative, let's assume that due to panel temp and other factors, we're actually gonna see more like 750 watt-hours per day.  also bought a 2d one that I plan to hook up as a free standing exterior auxiliary and plug in via a 12v marine outlet, so double all those figures.  I'm cannibalizing the charge controller from our last cabin (Blue Sky 2512iX) so I already have that, but would be another $250 otherwise. I have one house battery already in my MH, as do most of you.  gonna add a second one so an additional $90 or in my case 200 for an AGM.  35 lbs each and total of 110 amp-hours or 1320 watt-hours. 

the factory 110/12V Norcold fridge....no empirical tests but rated at 5.5 amps @ 12v......so  66 watts/hour and 1584 watt-hours a day!  (guess I need to look into one of those Igloos...:rolleyes:).  This figure is inflated since it's based on when the compressor is running, and with enough insulation, you can cut the run time quite a bit, but ouch. 

still, the two panels (i'd put em both up top if I wouldn't have to hoist em when I raised the poptop) will generate enough per day to run even this juice hawg in Sonoran or Baja Sur summers.  indefinitely.  without beating the crap out of your vehicle over the 20 miles of washboard back into whatever resembles a town for propane, assuming you can find it.  without depleting your travel budget since you already spent the $ (I can afford it now, but when I retire, avoiding the $20 propane fills will be nice.......). 

so yeah, when you add it all up, I think DC fridge on PVs is mostly the way to go....plus, with a battery combiner, you always have the option of charging via the alternator in an emergency.

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BTW--Totem, thanks for that info on the batteries.  how many volts is each cell? 

and yes, after something over 1200 transactions on fleebay, I do tend to discount the sellers' claims.....for Chinese goods, which will be most all fridges these days, I tend to discount the specs from the manufacturer too.........

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1 hour ago, payaso del mar said:

BTW--Totem, thanks for that info on the batteries.  how many volts is each cell? 

and yes, after something over 1200 transactions on fleebay, I do tend to discount the sellers' claims.....for Chinese goods, which will be most all fridges these days, I tend to discount the specs from the manufacturer too.........

18650 lithium's should be stable at 3.7 volts. that 18 cell power bank I gave link to is of particular interest because its rebuild-able with cells that can be had for free for many.

I wont bother wasting time telling the energy to weight density advantages of LIFEPO4 vs SLA or lead batteries; also note that those 18 cell banks can be daisy chained as the 12 volt port on them is both input and output. 3 of them would be a 140 AH bank and weigh less than one wallmart battery although the cost would be very high.

I chew my nails every time I see the spot welders for sale for those on ebay; I want one to build better packs for experiments. its relatively safe to weld groups of 6 into a BMS chip in series, and then from there into other configurations and plenty of people are strating to make large packs to run ebikes and other things. though the car makes like Elon Mush put a BMS on every pair for safety reasons because their banks are YUUUGE on the Tesla.

I have seen some youtube vids of a guy that takes old dead lead batteries like JDEs wallmart one and open them up and fill them with cells in arrays making a yuuuge packs that reuse the terminals etc and could be used in susbstitution of car batts.

main thing to remember with lithium: you will need a BMS for each array (battery maintenance system) as well as a lithium charger (different from the ones that charge lead batteries) . 

I have 2 electric scooters that I have used with my toys that ran on 3 SLA wheelchair batteries that finally gave up the ghost; I am swapping to a 36v 30 AH LIFEPO4 that I just bought on fleabay... it was not cheap but has a dual use in that it will also run the ebike I am building out of my old suspension mountain bike. that pack on my 1000 watt scooters would give them like a 40-50 mile range at 35 mph I think... but on a 500 watt brushless front hub ebike much further but only at 18-20 mph.

The scooters could end up getting me a ticket counting as motorcycles with no plates but the ebike is federally legal in all 50 states and is illegal to ticket me on thanks to some recent lib laws that forbid states to require licenses for peddled bicycles. -Hey the only way to fight taxes and laws these days is by using them yourself to your own advantage; so the ebikes are probably going to be my go to over the scooters with the scooters reserved for places/trips where I know they are ok locally by state law.

 

 

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thanks!  this may be very useful, as I have a bicycle HID headlight that needs new battery, and the new ones from NiteRider are likely Beyond Exorbitant.  you don't have to convince me of the power for weight advantages: one of the best things I ever did for my XR650L was replace the lump o lead under the seat with a lithium battery at 1/3 the weight.  it really seems like the major issue with lithium batteries is cost, due to limited supply of lithium....else, they'd be the choice for RV setups where weight is an issue.  so if your solution to use a buttload of these is workable........

those damn libs and their laws, next thing you know people will be able to breathe in the L.A. basin.....;)       Remember that the de facto libertarian paradise is just south o here, not too many laws there or at least no ability to enforce em due to budget.  chugging tequila while driving, no problem, until you crash.  John Galt prolly lives somewhere in the Sierra Madre, where there are REALLY no laws....  Just joking there, but really, living out west where you don't have many neighbors (NM, AZ, NV, CO, WY, MT, etc etc) is the way to be able to live your life as you wish w/o too much gummint interference if that's what's important to you....even JD didn't move far enough west to totally escape the nanny state.....

IMHO, any cop who pulls you over on an electric scooter is likely looking for business, to the point that they'd find something to pull you over for no matter what you were driving!  currently working on a suppression motion where cops claimed FedEx truck was straddling lanes....yeah, right, that's why the patrol car dashcam video shows 6 cops with guns drawn rushing the truck as soon as it stops, a lane violation......

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to follow up on my comments on thermoelectric coolers....agreeing with Maineah-----from the Wikipedia page:

This technology is far less commonly applied to refrigeration than vapor-compression refrigeration is. The primary advantages of a Peltier cooler compared to a vapor-compression refrigerator are its lack of moving parts or circulating liquid, very long life, invulnerability to leaks, small size and flexible shape. Its main disadvantage is high cost and poor power efficiency. Many researchers and companies are trying to develop Peltier coolers that are both cheap and efficient.

Peltier elements are commonly used in consumer products. For example, Peltier elements are used in camping, portable coolers, cooling electronic components and small instruments.[8] The cooling effect of Peltier heat pumps can also be used to extract water from the air in dehumidifiers. A camping/car type electric cooler can typically reduce the temperature by up to 20 °C (36 °F) below the ambient temperature.

thus it sounds like 40-45 degrees below ambient would even be charitable.  so make that 60 degree beer on a 95 degree day..........:(      why do jokes about Lucas refirgerators and warm Brit beer keep coming to mind?

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On 4/14/2016 at 7:35 PM, payaso del mar said:

     why do jokes about Lucas refirgerators and warm Brit beer keep coming to mind?

Yes. Lucas was also know as "The Prince of Darkness."  Especially when going down the highway at 70 MPH at night in a 60s Sunbeam, MG, Triumph, etc. and have all the headlights go out.

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JD - That's the same nickname that Click and Clack gave to Lucas and for good reason.  You mentioned going down the highway at 70 at night and having all the lights go out.  I had that exact thing happen to me in my Triumph TR2 on a lonely 2 lane Illinois road many (Many!) years ago...

John

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On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 7:12 PM, payaso del mar said:

thanks!  this may be very useful, as I have a bicycle HID headlight that needs new battery, and the new ones from NiteRider are likely Beyond Exorbitant.  you don't have to convince me of the power for weight advantages: one of the best things I ever did for my XR650L was replace the lump o lead under the seat with a lithium battery at 1/3 the weight.  it really seems like the major issue with lithium batteries is cost, due to limited supply of lithium....else, they'd be the choice for RV setups where weight is an issue.  so if your solution to use a buttload of these is workable........

those damn libs and their laws, next thing you know people will be able to breathe in the L.A. basin.....;)       Remember that the de facto libertarian paradise is just south o here, not too many laws there or at least no ability to enforce em due to budget.  chugging tequila while driving, no problem, until you crash.  John Galt prolly lives somewhere in the Sierra Madre, where there are REALLY no laws....  Just joking there, but really, living out west where you don't have many neighbors (NM, AZ, NV, CO, WY, MT, etc etc) is the way to be able to live your life as you wish w/o too much gummint interference if that's what's important to you....even JD didn't move far enough west to totally escape the nanny state.....

IMHO, any cop who pulls you over on an electric scooter is likely looking for business, to the point that they'd find something to pull you over for no matter what you were driving!  currently working on a suppression motion where cops claimed FedEx truck was straddling lanes....yeah, right, that's why the patrol car dashcam video shows 6 cops with guns drawn rushing the truck as soon as it stops, a lane violation......

I actually like the lib law forbidding the forced licensing of or illegality of ebikes, doubt it will last as its not intended to promote ebikes or cause pollution to dissipate as you believe...

 

In the USA, Congress has defined an electric bicycle as any bicycle or tricycle with fully operable pedals, an electric motor not exceeding 750 W of power and a top motor-powered speed not in excess of 20 miles per hour. An electric bike or trike that meets these limitations is regarded as a bicycle [8] by Public Law 107-319.[9] This Law defines electric bicycles only for the purpose of Consumer Product Safety.  - not to restrict states from fining you and that part you got correct.

So what this means also is that in the states that have banned motor assisted bicycles (including Kalifornia and NY); you can attempt to evade being called a motor assisted bicycle with federal law proving that its just a "bicycle" -  and have a solid chance in argument if they attempted to prove otherwise. hence why my bike is 500 watts and 18-20 mph topped out. The Battery is the beauty; get a nice one and you have free travel with no pollution as a side benefit. The fact that's is banned in blue states is not overlooked or lost on me; just

I have chosen a build that meets federal guidelines to be so wimpy as to be considered by them to be a bicycle; and plan to use it accordingly to assist on large mountain pass hills etc.  I wish more environmentalists would lead a movement to stop the ban on these methods of transportation in cities like NYC, LA and others so that they could replace cabs, traffic and pollution.

 

I wouldn't however count on breathing decently in that LA basin; it has been determined just being there causes cancer you know. I'll happily avoid it..

 

 

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E-bikes are not banned or restricted in any way in California that I know of. I have one friend who uses one as his only transportation. No license plate or personal license required. This includes one with no pedals as long as 20mph is the top speed. Ones with a top speed of 28mph require a helmet and minimum age of 16

Linda S

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1 hour ago, Dolphinite said:

JD - That's the same nickname that Click and Clack gave to Lucas and for good reason.  You mentioned going down the highway at 70 at night and having all the lights go out.  I had that exact thing happen to me in my Triumph TR2 on a lonely 2 lane Illinois road many (Many!) years ago...

John

I heard the "Prince of Darkness" used for Lucas way before Click and Clack existed.  I assume they picked up the phrase just like I did.  From disgruntled British car and motorcycle owners.   It is even mentioned in my Royal Enfield  Meteor-Minor workshop manual that was printed in 1959.

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48 minutes ago, linda s said:

E-bikes are not banned or restricted in any way in California that I know of. I have one friend who uses one as his only transportation. No license plate or personal license required. This includes one with no pedals as long as 20mph is the top speed. Ones with a top speed of 28mph require a helmet and minimum age of 16

Linda S

That's why I am building a 500 watt ebike. My 1000 watt scooters are not California legal. they are also banned on the beaches and some cities there also.

NY outright banned them (both ebikes and non licensed scooters) however in NYC and the rest of the state I believe. You cannot get a scooter license if from out of state.

Edited by Totem
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The law here has no mention of wattage, only speed. I see lots of 1000 watt bikes that still have a top speed of 20mph. Totally legal here and if yours does go faster how are they gonna know if they don't catch you on radar or something. Even the faster ones come in at 30mph. No way to differentiate between 28 mph or 30 to the human eye and even radar could be easily contested. 28 is legal just need to wear a helmet and be over 16

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2015/10/08/california-governor-signs-law-modernizing-e-bike-regulations#.VxewrDbmpjo

Linda S

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excellent. Now just need NY to do the same.

also, wattage determined speed in these things most of the time; if stock. that's why some states have a ban on 750 and above; as those will role to 23-30 mph

Edited by Totem
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Linda's correct.  keep in mind, we;'re talking muni code violations, not murder charges here.  assuming you aren't driving like a complete pendejo, cops aren't likely to even look at your speed* or check the amperage of your motor, unless they have nothing else to do that day or have a real hardon for you for whatever reason.  and any iffy ticket to which there might be a legal defense, even if not a strong one, is quickly ditched by overworked muni prosecutors.

 

Y'all malign Joseph Lucas.  just cuz the head of Group 44 once, upon being asked how he could make British Leyland vehicles finish a race and sometimes even win, said: "we remove everything with the word "Lucas" on it and replace it with something with the word "Bosch""     my MGB now has a Walbro fuel pump, Weber carb, and Jacobs Ignition.  nuff said?

 

*a human body plus 50# of tubing and electrics is an ATROCIOUS radar target....not much to reflect radar, and what there is, is curved so the reflection scatters every which way

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As an old time Triumph, BSA owner/rider, I've always used "Sir Lucas, Lord of darkness."

http://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html

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that link is hilarious.  my first car was a positive ground MG I bought for $50........the nice thing about Brit cars is that no matter what you do to them, your engineering is likely better than the factory's.

hmmm, sounds like Toyota RVs (the RV part, not the Toy part so much).  an axle that snaps under reasonably expected loads sounds veritably English........

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Back when I was a foreign auto mechanic in the 70s the question was "Why do the British drink warm beer", the answer being "Because Lucas makes all their refrigerators."

Coming up on about a year of living in our RV full-time w/ 2 golf cart batteries, a 2000w Xantrex inverter, 240w of solar panels, an MPPT controller, and a 5.1 cu. ft. freezer converted into a fridge, I have a few comments to make re. AC refrigeration in an RV for full-time use.

1) The inverter draws 0.5a at idle, just waiting for the fridge to run.  That translates to about 12 ah/day wasted.  

2) We spent much of last winter down in Baja California and most of the fall and early spring in the SW US.  In November in Nevada, even on a bright sunny day, I barely made enough power to run the fridge.  Once I made the panels tiltable, so I could compensate for the lower winter sun, things got much better.  Everything was great over the winter, we had plenty of power - of course, it we also only had one or two overcast days down in Mexico and, because we were much nearer the equator, didn't have to tilt the panels.  

3) The freezer surges up to near 20 amps DC at startup, and once it starts it draws about 11-14 amps depending on where it is in its run cycle.  Thankfully, the chest design doesn't spill too much cold air when opened, so even more thankfully, it doesn't run all that often.  All the same, I estimate that we use around 60 - 70 ah/day, mostly for the fridge.

4) Once we started moving north a few weeks ago, we had 4 overcast and rainy days - the panels just couldn't keep up so we had to either run the generator or move to get things charged back up again. 

We love the chest fridge - great space, storage, but there's a trade-off - no freezer, hence no ice.  Tough to give it up, but since we're not planning to stay in the SW US this summer or next winter w/ lots of sunlight, we're looking at alternatives.

We have friends with a 4.7 cu.in. Vitifrigo 12vdc fridge rated at 3.2a.  They're really happy with it, and, as much as we hate to spend the money, I think we're going to bite the bullet and get one, too. On our boat, our Adler-Barbour 12v fridge had about a 20 - 30% duty cycle.  Expecting about the same, it seems like the Vitifrigo would use about 23 ah/day at 30% duty cycle - about 1/3 as much as our current 60-70 ah/day chest fridge.  That would be a luxury.

 

 

 

 

Edited by mustrmrk
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4 hours ago, mustrmrk said:

 

3) The freezer surges up to near 20 amps DC at startup, and once it starts it draws about 11-14 amps depending on where it is in its run cycle.  Thankfully, the chest design doesn't spill too much cold air when opened, so even more thankfully, it doesn't run all that often.  All the same, I estimate that we use around 60 - 70 ah/day, mostly for the fridge.

 


Something is wrong with those figures or very wrong with your refrigerator. I have a 3.5 cubic-foot chest refrigerator and it uses about 20 amp-hours a day - at most. That is 1/2 of what you say your's is using.  When hooked to an amp-meter - it uses 129 watt-hours a day (around 10-11 amp-hours per day).  When I check the battery that  is powering the inverter - it is discharged at the rate of .88% per hour.  That comes to 21% discharge per 24 hour day with a 120 amp-hour battery.   The 60-70 AH per day you posted comes to 720-840 watt-hours per day. Makes no sense (at least not to me).

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they make small portable ice machines now that will crank enough for a mixed drink every 5 minutes.. they dare I say use massive peltiers that instantly freeze the ice donughts (it makes like the hotel ice round stile donught cubes as it just quick freezes the water on a post ). I actually use mine at home but have also taken it in the rig its low power enough to run on a small inverter safely. says it draws 160 watts.

http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/IGLOO-ICE102-Counter-Top-Ice-Maker-SILVER/10992967/product.html

 

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Totem, that's not a Peltier:   This countertop ice machine features the compressor cooling system

I don;'t think Peltier units get cold enough to make ice.  and when we're talking about fridge efficiency and battery drain, i'm not sure that adding a 2d unit burning 100-200 watts/hour is a good plan........altho if you ran it while you were driving and then put the ice into a cooler......???  still, seems like an extra item to haul.

Edited by payaso del mar
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25 minutes ago, payaso del mar said:

Totem, that's not a Peltier:   This countertop ice machine features the compressor cooling system

I don;'t think Peltier units get cold enough to make ice.  and when we're talking about fridge efficiency and battery drain, i'm not sure that adding a 2d unit burning 100-200 watts/hour is a good plan........altho if you ran it while you were driving and then put the ice into a cooler......???  still, seems like an extra item to haul.

if theres a compressor in that tiny ice maker then I'll be a monkeys uncle. its so small ... and it makes 0 noise just a fan ...I'll tear mine open tonight and see maybe i am wrong. I also find it hard to believe an 800 watt inverter would run even the smallest dollhouse cooling compressor....

Edited by Totem
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Yup compressor based units. Here's the description from Walmart.

You can make ice cubes for parties or hot summer days within a few minutes with the Igloo Ice 102 Portable Ice Maker. Its compact and contemporary design makes it easy to transport and stylish to display. With 2.0 lbs capacity of ice cube basket, this Igloo ice maker saves space in your freezer for other food. It features a 3.1L capacity water reservoir that can make up to 26lbs of ice in 24 hours. You need not drain the melted ice as it drains back to the reservoir. This countertop ice machine features the compressor cooling system and operates at low noise. The modern design and adjustable cube size add to the unique functionality of this Countertop Ice Machine

Linda S

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as I understand thermoelectric coolers, the only way you'd be able to get them to make ice is to run em outside when the outside temp is below 60?  the only claims I've seen that they could cool more than 35-40 degrees F below ambient come from people trying to sell em.......

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Then truly you do not understand Bismuth power units or thermoelectric cooling.

I have both peltier units as well as TEGs at home, I have played with both, and there is only one simple rule:

the greater the delta the greater the power; that is to say the greater the delta on each side of the chip the greater the TEG's power generation OR the greater the electrical need to cause the delta.

Each side of the chip is the opposite; like a magnet, but instead with power or temperature.

You can easily you tube videos of people pumping juice to a peltier and having it instantaneously freeze water on top of it; no secrets there.  Peltiers and TEGS are almost the same thing and can almost interchange, however TEGS are designed instead to focus on consuming the delta where as peltiers are designed to create it.

 

Edited by Totem
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Then truly you do not understand Bismuth power units or thermoelectric cooling.

i'd be the first to agree......I know nothing about the tech aside from what I read on W'pedia and elsewhere.  I will wholly defer to you on that.  but we may have a gap here between the theoretical potential of the technology, as you describe, and the reality of what's for sale out there and how it works.  I guess I should have qualified my statement:  I meant TE units you can buy as a unit and actually use while camping. not someone's science project experiment on Youtube. 

i'm not aware of any TE icemakers or freezers, and a search on Amazon brought none up.  you know of any?  I noted that the claim for the Igloo TE is:  Cools to 38F below ambient temperature

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