Jump to content

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, Derek up North said:

Plugs gapped at 0.031"?

Yes

Ok just did test to see which cylinder is misfiring, cylinder 4 showed no change when pulling wire off dis cap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 222
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

If you don't own a multi-meter you are now officially in the market for one.

Remove #4 plug and check it, remove distributor cap and check it. Look for carbon tracks, cracks, broken terminals and such like. Check the resistance of the plug wire with meter.

Follow Linda's post about using a meter to check fuel injector coil resistance.

NO meter (yet) ?? swap spark plug to different cylinder, no change, then swap ignition wire. IF your new wires showed up then just repace # 4 wire, later change all wires. Swapping injectors is a PIA so get a meter

Edited by WME
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, WME said:

If you don't own a multi-meter you are now officially in the market for one.

Remove #4 plug and check it, remove distributor cap and check it. Look for carbon tracks, cracks, broken terminals and such like. Check the resistance of the plug wire with meter.

Follow Linda's post about using a meter to check fuel injector coil resistance.

NO meter (yet) ?? swap spark plug to different cylinder, no change, then swap ignition wire. IF your new wires showed up then just repace # 4 wire, later change all wires. Swapping injectors is a PIA so get a meter

I have multimeter but dont know how to use it.To check fuel inj dont I have to remove the plenum? If so above my pay grade.

Removed the plug,pics attached.Went ahead and checked compression again,tester measured 153 but I think its 10 lbs high,but still good enough reading.Installed a NEW plug and NEW wire and did test again,still no change when pulling wire off.This is brand new dis cap also.

 

IMG_9586.JPG

IMG_9587.JPG

IMG_9588.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fuel inj"s have been my #1 suspect this whole time{especially after seeing all the dirt in fuel filter I removed} but to test and or replace is above my pay grade,hence why I've tried seafoam and the Berrymans 3 step fuel inj cleaning kit.Whether thats the problem I dont know.

IMG_9434.JPG

IMG_9435.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 OK simple test. Take a long screw driver place it on the injector put your ear on the handle end start the engine you should hear sort of a buzzing noise this means the injector is getting a signal from the ECU if you get no noise it's either a bad injector or an issue with the ECM. I do not believe the V6 had injector resisters but I could be wrong about that they some times went bad on the 22RE. A "noid" light is the best way to check for a signal from the ECM but in a pinch a 12v test light will work between the two injectors wires it should light with the engine running.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, redskinman said:

Fuel inj"s have been my #1 suspect this whole time{especially after seeing all the dirt in fuel filter I removed} but to test and or replace is above my pay grade,hence why I've tried seafoam and the Berrymans 3 step fuel inj cleaning kit.Whether thats the problem I dont know.

IMG_9434.JPG

IMG_9435.JPG

Yep that looks like just about every Toyota fuel filter they never get changed! That ones full of rust. Answer yes that can plug up an injector they do have a very fine screen in the very end of the injector. See if it's making noise first before you pull it out if it is then it's probably plugged up. This is also what I was saying about spray pattern it maybe spraying but not as it should in other words sort of working.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I replaced the fuel filter there was quite a bit of rust in it.  Not being a real mechanic I put no thought into it, only to figure out later all the rust was the inside of the fuel tank.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Post a pic of the meter, we'll tell you what function to use to test the injector..

Edited by WME
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the tips,I will have to get back to fuel inj another time,I wanted to finish the egr block kit today.Pain in the butt to get to some of those nuts but anyway,made this youtube video to see if I am putting the caps where i am supposed to.It came with 3 small caps and 1 large,although their diagram only shows using 2 small caps.

http://www.lcengineering.com/LCInstructions/3VZ EGR_delete.pdf

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

200K should be fine it however will only tell you that the coil is not open it does not mean that it is working. Switch to 20 v range probe the injector plug with the engine running the voltage will be all over the place you can try the 200 volt AC range but I don't think you'll have much luck you can only expect so much from a $8 meter. It's OK though close enough for what you are trying to do. I still suggest the sound test that at least means it's trying to do some thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK digital meter.

Black probe goes COM, red probe goes to the middle port. Install battery, turn on meter, turn dial to 200 ohm (ohm symbol is upside down horse shoe). Short the red and black leads togather, the meter should read 0.

CAREFULLY remove wire harness from #4 injector, with the meter in 200 ohm position  touch one lead to pin/contact in the injector the other lead to the other pin. A good injector coil will read 14-16 ohms. .00 anything is bad. A total open bad. Check a good cylinder injector just to make sure you got it right,

You can have a good injector coil and still have a bad injector.

Forget about measuring the injector pulse with that meter.

Edited by WME
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been googling this but cannot find a definitive answer.Since cylinder #4 seems to be where misfire is coming from but compression is good,does that eliminate the need for a leak down test? Or is leak down test only neccessary when compression is bad? Is it possible I might have a bad valve even if compression is good?

thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A leakdown test is part of evaluation of an poor engine, compression test first. If the compression test is OK then no leakdown is needed. IF compression is bad or all over the map, then a leakdown will help identify the problem in each cylinder. Bad rings, bad valve or bad head gasket.

We also use a leakdown test on new HP engines to check ring seal, then every so often you do it again and compare. If it drops more than a few % its time to rering.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, WME said:

A leakdown test is part of evaluation of an poor engine, compression test first. If the compression test is OK then no leakdown is needed. IF compression is bad or all over the map, then a leakdown will help identify the problem in each cylinder. Bad rings, bad valve or bad head gasket.

We also use a leakdown test on new HP engines to check ring seal, then every so often you do it again and compare. If it drops more than a few % its time to rering.

 

Ok thanks,thats good news.I'm trying to eliminate all the things it could possibly be.Compression in all the cylinders was in 140-150 range

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You got spark and vacuum stuff is all checked out. I found some misfire stuff online and a guy spent tons of time just like you have. Turned out it was the fuel injector on only that one cylinder that was bad. It happens. His literally fell apart when he removed it

Linda S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, linda s said:

You got spark and vacuum stuff is all checked out. I found some misfire stuff online and a guy spent tons of time just like you have. Turned out it was the fuel injector on only that one cylinder that was bad. It happens. His literally fell apart when he removed it

Linda S

Thats what I am hoping it is

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Used injectors $12-$18, really! are you that desperate? 

Remfg injectors $35-$50 ea, or $125-$300 a set. New are $75-$175 ea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, WME said:

Used injectors $12-$18, really! are you that desperate? 

Remfg injectors $35-$50 ea, or $125-$300 a set. New are $75-$175 ea.

???

I'm confused,I dont know what you mean am I really that desperate? Who said anything about buying a used injector? I am just hoping it's a bad inj and nothing else.As far as how much they cost the issue would be I dont have the skills to replace them myself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think he was referring to you since you never said anything like that. The article I posted said something about throwing in the junk yard injector. Maybe he was thinking of that. Yeah I couldn't replace an injector either. I'm just lucky enough to have a family member who can if I ever needed one.

Linda S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That line wasn't about you. There are used injectors all over EBay.

All that is involved to change an injector, labor, new o-rings and gaskets, who would install a used injector? But there they are, so somebody is doing it. 

Edited by WME
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, WME said:

That line wasn't about you. There are used injectors all over EBay.

All that is involved to change an injector, labor, new o-rings and gaskets, who would install a used injector? But there they are, so somebody is doing it. 

Oh ok,I had no clue what you were talking about.

Turns out #4 inj is under throttle body,I cant get to it to test with meter but putting screwdriver up to it and listening I can hear the clicking sound so thats not good,doesnt help me find the problem.I'd feel a whole lot better about it just being the inj if it passed a leakdown test on that cylinder.I think I'll probably end up buying the Harbor Freight tester and testing it myself,I'm leery of believing anything a shop tells me at this point.

A guy on the toyotech forum said when his  last head gasket let loose a cold compression test still showed less than 1-2 psi variation, small enough to not be measured on the Napa gauge I have.He had 120 psi at #1 and around 125 on the rest, with a dead battery, the gasket failed between #2 #3

Edited by redskinman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is what someone told me on toyotech forum after seeing pics of the plug out of # 4

 

" You have ash deposited, that shows it is/was firing at least some at one point.

It's dark and chunky not dark and sooty, that means oil not over fueling.

bottom third of the ground strap is still shiny, that means it's not been ran up to higher speed or maybe its not combusting more than half of what it's given at WOT.

Pretty typical of a leak at the valve stem..

It looks like the electrode might be bent, anybody else seeing that(?), that's not a denso feature that I am aware of..


Wondering if you can get any garbage out of that cylinder.. I would pull the computer fuse, the #4 plug, hook up jumper cables to another running engine, hold a clean white catch rag to #4 and crank the bejebus out of it... Or put a bore scope down it if that's more hillbilly than you have in you.. "

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok so I did the leak down test yesterday but I believe I screwed the pooch and I didnt realize it till after I had put everything back together and I was too tired and disgusted with myself to start over,will tackle it again Sunday weather permitting.
So I tested cylinders 2,4,and 6 first.For the first 3 cylinders I had truck in gear with parking brake on.Then I took a lunch break and when I did the other 3 cyl I forgot to put truck in gear like I had the other test,this is where I think I pooched it.
So first cyl I tested was 4,where I thought I had the misfire.I did the test multiple times on each cylinder,it seemed like i would get a different reading depending on how fast I could get them coupled together.This Harbor Freight tester looks like it works a little differently then the other testers I have seen on youtube.At 40% leakage it still says that is moderate.
So cylinder 4 tested under 10 % 3 times.
Cylinder 2 I got readings of,10,20,and 18
Cylinder 6 I got readings of 25,30,and 30.
Then took lunch break
Came back,forgot to put truck back in gear.
Cylinder 5-40,38,35
Cylinder 3-34,40,45
Cylinder 1-40,40,didnt do a 3rd test
So after these other readings were so much higher then the first 3 I went back and checked cyl 2 and 6 again and got readings of 40%,a lot different then the first readings when I had truck in gear.

At no point did I ever hear any air leaking anywhere.I checked tailpipe,looked for bubbles in radiator,heard no air coming out of dipstick tube.
But I did forget to take oil cap off and listen there,and I listened for air at throttle body but forgot to open intake and listen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you have a stick or automatic?? IF an automatic then being in gear doesn't matter. But you need to turn the engine so that each piston is at TDC when checked

Sounds like your Sunday is going to be busy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, WME said:

Do you have a stick or automatic?? IF an automatic then being in gear doesn't matter. But you need to turn the engine so that each piston is at TDC when checked

Sounds like your Sunday is going to be busy.

It's an automatic.So if that's true then maybe that Harbor Freight tester is crap.Like I posted,first time I checked cyl 4{with truck in gear} got less than 10% leakage.When I came back and tried it again with truck not in gear it had 40% leakage so somethings not right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you turn the engine by hand to ensure each piston is at TDC?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/12/2017 at 1:05 PM, redskinman said:

Oh ok,I had no clue what you were talking about.

Turns out #4 inj is under throttle body,I cant get to it to test with meter but putting screwdriver up to it and listening I can hear the clicking sound so thats not good,doesnt help me find the problem.

Yes actually it does that means there is not a computer/wiring issue it pretty much points to a pouched injector read plugged up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Maineah said:

Yes actually it does that means there is not a computer/wiring issue it pretty much points to a pouched injector read plugged up.

Yeah I worded that wrong,like you said it does let me know it is working{or trying to work}but i still did not find the problem.I'm still not wording it right.I was hoping I would not hear any clicking sounds so I would have that "aha" moment and know that was the reason for the misfire,but since it was clicking I didnt get that moment.I know it could still be a plugged inj.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, WME said:

Did you turn the engine by hand to ensure each piston is at TDC?

Yes I did.I used a balloon attached to compression tester hose{without gauge attached}so when the balloon started to fill up with air I knew I was on compression stroke,then I would stick screwdriver in and stop at its highest point.

I am going to take this tester back to HF and exchange it this morning and see if i get different results when I test it tomorrow.

Also if fuel inj is bad,shouldnt I be getting a code for this? I have had this misfire the whole time but only codes have been for EGR malfunction,and first place I took it to also said it was reading a code for a lean condtion,but 2nd shop never mentioned that code.

I havent put any miles on it since putting on the block kit.When I get home from work today I'm going to take it for a spin and put at least 50 miles on it,see if I get check engine light to come on and then I'll see how spark plugs look tomorrow.

Edited by redskinman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do the leak check with the new tester see what happens. If the results are all over the map, squirt some oil in each cylinder and bump the engine over for a few turns and re do the check. UNPLUG the dist trigger wires.

If your injector is electrically OK, but mechanically bad you may not get a code.

Disconnect the battery for 15 min to clear codes before the drive. Then check the codes your self.

Put #4 spark plug in a different cylinder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok put 75 miles on truck last night.Check engine light came on,its flashing code 25,which I believe is lean condition.
Took truck for short spin this morning and pulled plugs to get ready for leak down and found something disturbing.
Spark plug1,2,5 and 6 looked fine,spark plug 4 was dark and had some oil on it like before,but sparkplug 3 is what is freaking me out.The gap in it was huge compared to others,it had a growth sprouting up from center electrode,and ground electrode had a round indention in it,wtf?
On to the leak down

#3a.JPG

#3b.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Time for really dumb questions^_^

Are the plugs all the same brand and PN? #3 looks like an Autolite double Platinum. Did you move #4 to  different cylinder?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, WME said:

Time for really dumb questions^_^

Are the plugs all the same brand and PN? #3 looks like an Autolite double Platinum. Did you move #4 to  different cylinder?

Excellent catch! I had ordered 8 denso k16r-u plugs from advanced auto.Well that plug that is all messed up is a Denson pk20tt that was in a k16r-u box,wtf advanced auto? Would 1 wrong plug cause it to do that? I'm 99% sure I gapped all those plugs so I dont know how that gap got so big.

As for moving #4,I did not move it before I drove it last night or today because when I did the test Wed that plug looked brand new,it had 0 miles on itonly run time on it was from starting truck in the driveway.I did move it to cylinder 6 after test today.

Edited by redskinman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...