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Timing, idle speed. Has the engine had a compression check?? Last time the valve clearance was checked??

Cowboy compression check, with the engine warm, let it idle and with insulated gloves pull off 1 spark plug wire at a time. If it gets worse then that cylinder was working. If no change then that's a bad cylinder. Check all 6 you could have 2 bad ones.

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10 hours ago, WME said:

Timing, idle speed. Has the engine had a compression check?? Last time the valve clearance was checked??

Cowboy compression check, with the engine warm, let it idle and with insulated gloves pull off 1 spark plug wire at a time. If it gets worse then that cylinder was working. If no change then that's a bad cylinder. Check all 6 you could have 2 bad ones.

Yes I checked compression. Shop said they narrowed it down to misfire in cylinder 1, how they did that I don't know. They said they checked compression in that cylinder and did leakdown test and checked spark plug wires. I had previously checked compression in all cylinders before taking it to them. Their diagnosis was EGR valve and temp sensor which I replaced. Timing I checked but it was my first time so maybe I didn't do it right, I've got a friend coming tonight to check timing again but he and another say it sounds like a vacuum leak. I don't know when or if ever valves were adjusted. Once I got this misfire figured out I was going to put it in shop to replace timing belt and do valve adjustment.

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That does not sound like a EGR miss fire usually it's more of a stumble than a miss fire does this thing run OK at speed? Try this remove the #1 injector wire and see if that makes any difference. They seem to think it is #1 cylinder so that's were I would start. Some thing else I wonder about is fuel pressure it should be some where around 35 PSI. It's running  pretty bad it should not be real hard to find.

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Some thing else to try, see if you can extract any codes even if it is not showing any. I'm sort of curious why it is not  showing a code if any thing I would expect to see an O2 sensor code because it's running poorly.

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5 hours ago, Maineah said:

That does not sound like a EGR miss fire usually it's more of a stumble than a miss fire does this thing run OK at speed? Try this remove the #1 injector wire and see if that makes any difference. They seem to think it is #1 cylinder so that's were I would start. Some thing else I wonder about is fuel pressure it should be some where around 35 PSI. It's running  pretty bad it should not be real hard to find.

Well it did not run that poorly till after changing out egr.It had misfire before but would stay running at idle.The other stuff you say to do sounds above my paygrade.I dont know how to extract a code

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2 hours ago, redskinman said:

Well it did not run that poorly till after changing out egr.It had misfire before but would stay running at idle.The other stuff you say to do sounds above my paygrade.I dont know how to extract a code

It's not that hard. Even I can do it and I'm a girl. Here are instructions and codes. Just by passing the correct terminals and counting flashes

http://www.troublecodes.net/toyota/

Linda S

 

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Ok I get it now on the codes.I will not be able to extract a code because they are cleared when battery is disconnected.I just had a friend come over to help me double check the timing to make sure I did it right when I checked it and I had,it is in time.But I was explaining to him how it was running better with the old temp sensor{that wasnt really connected because shop had broke the wires off}

So for experiment while it was running I unplugged the brand new temp sensor and it started idling a lot smoother,not perfectly smooth but its a steady idle unlike the up and down idle as seen in video.So then we hooked temp sensor back up and it starts the up and down bad idling again,so then we pulled off top vacuum line going to EGR valve and it immediately starts running better but at a high idle,plug vacuum line back in and it starts running like crap again,so now I'm even more confused.

From the way its acting when everythings hooked up makes you wonder if the brand new EGR valve is messed up,and if it is why isnt it throwing the check engine light? I am so frustrated at this point,plus I do not think this EGR crap has anything to do with the misfire,I think thats a separate problem altogether

Edited by redskinman
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An increase in RPM when a hose is removed is a sign of a vacuum leak. Try plugging the hose, golf tee.

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16 hours ago, redskinman said:

Well it did not run that poorly till after changing out egr. It had misfire before but would stay running at idle. The other stuff you say to do sounds above my paygrade. I don't know how to extract a code

If the EGR is in place and not blocked off remove the vacuum line and see if that makes a difference.

OK what is happening the vacuum line is pulling open the EGR valve and dumping exhaust gas into the intake at idle. There should be no vacuum at the line at idle. Two things there maybe a temp controlled valve in the EGR circuit I do not remember, or  whom ever was tinkering the truck did not get the vacuum lines connected properly.  There should be a vacuum line routing sticker under the hood some where. The ideal is to inject exhaust gas at road speeds to reduce cylinder temp basically it takes up space with some thing that can't burn to reduce emissions but you can see what would happen at idle the engine is just not turning fast enough to deal with and inert mix. As far as a high idle with it removed yes extra air will cause that but more likely some one kicked up the idle to compensate for the miss behaving EGR.

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45 minutes ago, Maineah said:

If the EGR is in place and not blocked off remove the vacuum line and see if that makes a difference.

OK what is happening the vacuum line is pulling open the EGR valve and dumping exhaust gas into the intake at idle. There should be no vacuum at the line at idle. Two things there maybe a temp controlled valve in the EGR circuit I do not remember, or  whom ever was tinkering the truck did not get the vacuum lines connected properly.  There should be a vacuum line routing sticker under the hood some where. The ideal is to inject exhaust gas at road speeds to reduce cylinder temp basically it takes up space with some thing that can't burn to reduce emissions but you can see what would happen at idle the engine is just not turning fast enough to deal with and inert mix. As far as a high idle with it removed yes extra air will cause that but more likely some one kicked up the idle to compensate for the miss behaving EGR.

I'm not sure what you mean about this first sentence? because I just explained new EGR is hooked up and when I remove vacuum line it runs better at high idle.

Yes my friend said it was like the EGR valve was stuck open at idle but it's brand new so not sure there.It's pretty hard to mix up the vacuum lines going to the valve,one on top goes to the top and one on bottom goes to the bottom of valve.As far as vacuum lines anywhere else being mixed up thats very possible.

There are 2 lines that are not hooked up to anything that are plugged with bolts.I told the shop I took it to about them and they definitely messed with them because the other hose that was wrapped around them is now missing.I was told one line most likely went to power steering pump and where the other one goes I dont know.Shop mentioned nothing about it in their diagnosis.

As far as idle goes I dont think anyone kicked up the idle but anythings possible.Only time it has idles like that is when I pulled vacuum line off.

 

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One other thought (it has been a long time since I played with this stuff) the temp sensor maybe related to the egr valving via a vacuum solenoid regardless it's letting exhaust gas into the intake at idle. The EGR valve it's self is a very simple device nothing more than a vacuum operated valve that allows exhaust gas in to the intake it is a dumb part that only responds to a vacuum input.

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20 minutes ago, redskinman said:

I'm not sure what you mean about this first sentence? because I just explained new EGR is hooked up and when I remove vacuum line it runs better at high idle.

Yes my friend said it was like the EGR valve was stuck open at idle but it's brand new so not sure there.It's pretty hard to mix up the vacuum lines going to the valve,one on top goes to the top and one on bottom goes to the bottom of valve.As far as vacuum lines anywhere else being mixed up thats very possible.

There are 2 lines that are not hooked up to anything that are plugged with bolts.I told the shop I took it to about them and they definitely messed with them because the other hose that was wrapped around them is now missing.I was told one line most likely went to power steering pump and where the other one goes I dont know.Shop mentioned nothing about it in their diagnosis.

As far as idle goes I dont think anyone kicked up the idle but anythings possible.Only time it has idles like that is when I pulled vacuum line off.

 

I think they did increase the idle to keep it running at idle but deal with fixing the EGR problem first. If you put your finger over the line when it's unplugged the idle should drop if it does not then they have kicked the idle up. When you remove the vac line the EGR valve closes cutting off the exhaust flow to the intake that is why it smooths out that tells me that the EGR is working as it should, it by it self does nothing it has to have vac applied externally what I am trying to say it should have no vacuum at idle if it does it is going to be open and it should not at idle. The two lines you have in your hand probably go to the vac kick for the power steering it allows extra vac into the intake when the power steering is against the steering stops to increase the idle. There is a vac line screw up some where holding the EGR open it is not the EGR causing the problem it is the vac opening the EGR when it shouldn't.

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3 hours ago, Maineah said:

One other thought (it has been a long time since I played with this stuff) the temp sensor maybe related to the egr valving via a vacuum solenoid regardless it's letting exhaust gas into the intake at idle. The EGR valve it's self is a very simple device nothing more than a vacuum operated valve that allows exhaust gas in to the intake it is a dumb part that only responds to a vacuum input.

It does have temp sensor connected to egr but what it's job is I dont know,but temp sensor is brand new and it is def doing something because like I said in earlier post when I unplug temp sensor from egr idle smooths out but at a low idle,not the high idle I get when unplugging vacuum line from egr.

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3 hours ago, Maineah said:

I think they did increase the idle to keep it running at idle but deal with fixing the EGR problem first. If you put your finger over the line when it's unplugged the idle should drop if it does not then they have kicked the idle up. When you remove the vac line the EGR valve closes cutting off the exhaust flow to the intake that is why it smooths out that tells me that the EGR is working as it should, it by it self does nothing it has to have vac applied externally what I am trying to say it should have no vacuum at idle if it does it is going to be open and it should not at idle. The two lines you have in your hand probably go to the vac kick for the power steering it allows extra vac into the intake when the power steering is against the steering stops to increase the idle. There is a vac line screw up some where holding the EGR open it is not the EGR causing the problem it is the vac opening the EGR when it shouldn't.

What your saying is making sense now got to try and track down the problem.I will try to get another video of doing the experiment pulling the vacuum line out and putting finger over it and how the vacuum lines are hooked up.

Thanks

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13 hours ago, WME said:

lol yep that would have helped a lot but now that I actually have the egr valve installed and I've installed the temp sensor and I cant take them back I will most likely just leave those on and try and figure out the problem,but that thread will help a lot if I do go that route.

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Try disconnecting the vacuum line to the egr and plugging it. Then install the 10 k resistor. See how things react.

If the egr is good this should duplicate what the block off would do.

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21 hours ago, WME said:

Try disconnecting the vacuum line to the egr and plugging it. Then install the 10 k resistor. See how things react.

If the egr is good this should duplicate what the block off would do.

Ok I have tried this, it idles steady now {drove it to parts store and back} but still has misfire {which I expected, I don't think they are related} What is the difference between doing this procedure and putting on the block off kit?

thanks

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About $260 in parts;)

You still have the PAIR (passive air injection) valve installed too.

Edited by WME
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58 minutes ago, WME said:

About $260 in parts;)

You still have the PAIR (passive air injection) valve installed too.

LOL yep

Yeah I am supposed to remove that when installing the block kit,but thats what I'm wondering,if I should leave it like it is,does it harm engine any to run it like that? I'm thinking I should just remove everything and figure out how to install that block kit so I dont have to worry about any part of the egr sytem and can concentrate on the misfire being something else.

Speaking of the misfire,I bought a Berrymans 3 step fuel inj cleaning kit.First step is removing boot from intake and starting truck and spraying cleaner into intake,well truck wont start with boot removed and if you start it then remove boot it dies,is that normal? Or is that a result of the egr sytem not functioning correctly?

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Engine wont run with the intake disconnected. There is an air valve with the air cleaner. It acts as a crude airflow meter. Removing the boot means no air flow measured.

The PAIR valve is after the engine so other than noisy leaks it should not effect things.

Edited by WME
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The vane in the air flow meter has to open it controls the fuel pump relay along with the fuel mix.

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OK thanks. It must work different on some other cars. My intake looked pretty clean when I removed the boot and unfortunately this kit didn't help it run any better. I was hoping I would get lucky and the misfire was from a clogged fuel inj and this would help but no luck. It still could be a bad fuel inj but if you believe what the shop said {they said they narrowed down misfire to cylinder 1 and tested fuel inj} then at least 1 is ok.

 

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7 hours ago, redskinman said:

OK thanks. It must work different on some other cars. My intake looked pretty clean when I removed the boot and unfortunately this kit didn't help it run any better. I was hoping I would get lucky and the misfire was from a clogged fuel inj and this would help but no luck. It still could be a bad fuel inj but if you believe what the shop said {they said they narrowed down misfire to cylinder 1 and tested fuel inj} then at least 1 is ok.

 

Personal opinion, snake oil. Yours will not work like that because of the way the air flow meter is designed. The old systems did get  pretty yucky at the throttle body and would cause throttle plate sticking but not a miss fire of any sort. People have been dumping cleaners in fuel tanks for decades as far as I know there has never been a case that it actually did some thing. Many are sure that it did because it said so on the can. The only way to try and clean injectors would be to run the engine on a cleaner under pressure, that actually was popular in the 70's - early 80's and I still remain skeptical that that actually did any thing either.

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16 hours ago, Maineah said:

Personal opinion, snake oil. Yours will not work like that because of the way the air flow meter is designed. The old systems did get  pretty yucky at the throttle body and would cause throttle plate sticking but not a miss fire of any sort. People have been dumping cleaners in fuel tanks for decades as far as I know there has never been a case that it actually did some thing. Many are sure that it did because it said so on the can. The only way to try and clean injectors would be to run the engine on a cleaner under pressure, that actually was popular in the 70's - early 80's and I still remain skeptical that that actually did any thing either.

Well it wouldn't work on my engine for the first step but it worked great for the 2nd step, hooking the vacuum line  from brake booster up to the hose in the bottle and it sucked it dry, that's the part I was hoping would work if it was clogged fuel inj, I wasn't expecting the cleaning of the throttle body to fix the misfire but I was hoping cleaning the fuel inj with the cleaner might. I'm still not convinced it's not a fuel inj causing the misfire, either by being too clogged to fix this way or 1 or more need replacing.

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This is an interesting article about finding the cause of a misfire on only 1 cylinder. Mind you this truck is newer and is OBD computer tested. You have driven your truck far enough to reset the bad codes though if you want to try it. The fuel injector for that cylinder could still be bad. They just grabbed one from a junk yard and replaced it

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/car-maintenance/how-to-do-it-yourself/diy-engine-misfire-diagnosis-and-repair

Linda S

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9 hours ago, linda s said:

This is an interesting article about finding the cause of a misfire on only 1 cylinder. Mind you this truck is newer and is OBD computer tested. You have driven your truck far enough to reset the bad codes though if you want to try it. The fuel injector for that cylinder could still be bad. They just grabbed one from a junk yard and replaced it

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/car-maintenance/how-to-do-it-yourself/diy-engine-misfire-diagnosis-and-repair

Linda S

ok thanks

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14 hours ago, redskinman said:

Well it wouldn't work on my engine for the first step but it worked great for the 2nd step, hooking the vacuum line from brake booster up to the hose in the bottle and it sucked it dry, that's the part I was hoping would work if it was clogged fuel inj, I wasn't expecting the cleaning of the throttle body to fix the misfire but I was hoping cleaning the fuel inj with the cleaner might. I'm still not convinced it's not a fuel inj causing the misfire, either by being too clogged to fix this way or 1 or more need replacing.

The cleaner does not go through the injector it just passes by it might have a nice shiney tip but that's about it it will do nothing for what actually makes the injector work. Injectors do go south but rarely, injectors can become partly plugged and cause a poor spray pattern but that's not common either. What happens if you remove the #1 spark plug wire and start/drive the MH? Does it make any difference? If it does not then for sure you have an issue with #1 cylinder if it's worse then you are barking up the wrong tree. The problems run from bad compression, bad plug, bad wire, bad cap, bad injector, bad wiring connector to the injector, bad injector driver in the ecu, vacuum leak at #1 cylinder even a bad cam shaft. Be methodical check simple things first.

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Linda that was a very informative web page you posted. Thank you.

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1 hour ago, Maineah said:

The cleaner does not go through the injector it just passes by it might have a nice shiney tip but that's about it it will do nothing for what actually makes the injector work. Injectors do go south but rarely, injectors can become partly plugged and cause a poor spray pattern but that's not common either. What happens if you remove the #1 spark plug wire and start/drive the MH? Does it make any difference? If it does not then for sure you have an issue with #1 cylinder if it's worse then you are barking up the wrong tree. The problems run from bad compression, bad plug, bad wire, bad cap, bad injector, bad wiring connector to the injector, bad injector driver in the ecu, vacuum leak at #1 cylinder even a bad cam shaft. Be methodical check simple things first.

I just replaced distributor cap and ordered new wires which should come today to cover all my bases. I'm off tomorrow and will install them tomorrow and while I'm doing that I will try the misfire test by pulling each wire off 1 at a time, I have not tried that yet.

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7 hours ago, redskinman said:

I just replaced distributor cap and ordered new wires which should come today to cover all my bases. I'm off tomorrow and will install them tomorrow and while I'm doing that I will try the misfire test by pulling each wire off 1 at a time, I have not tried that yet.

Now your talking!

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