Petemoss Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 No popcorn, no beer, no problem. And some people watch television for entertainment! I can't be responsible for the drugs you're on. I think we frightened the grad student back into his books. Remember the person who started this thread entitled, "Lookin to buy?" Who's on first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The ordinance, please paste. Bet it has written permission clause. And if walmart isnt the owner of a walmart parking lot who is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I like kettle corn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibs Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The ordinance, please paste. Bet it has written permission clause. And if walmart isnt the owner of a walmart parking lot who is? yes, if the ord has exclusion clauses, sure what ever the exclusion is you can get away with it. But I was talking about most cities have banned parking overnight in mall, walmart, etc parking lots. Cities are not alone in cracking down on overnight parking, even in state owned DNR parking lots, there are posted signs saying the parking lot closes from 2 am till 4 am and says no camping allowed. This is to ticket anyone sleeping in their vehicles. Found this out last fall when I was out fishing salmon. This year I will book a camp ground spot to sleep in my car, $30 a night is better than a $150 ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The ordinance, please paste. Bet it has written permission clause. And if walmart isnt the owner of a walmart parking lot who is? I'm not sure what ordinance you speak of. I'm not posting any more such documents. If it's just for your request, seems a waste of time. Again though - not sure what or who your request is pointed towards. In reference to the "angry farmer" that has the big signs out? He was given a summons for being in violation of part of the "Land Use Regulations for the Town of Worcester, Otsego County, NY adopted 1976." He was in violation - according to the wildlife-cop (who has the same legal powers as a NY State Trooper). Reason being - he had a camper trailer on his property with a permanently fastened TV antenna on it. The TV antenna - according to the cop - made it clear that the RV was not ready for travel. After the cop entered the land without asking first (which got the farmer very angry) - he found that the camper also had no license plates on it.. The local law of 1976 requires any RV on private property to be registered and "ready to travel", or it must be considered a "single family residential structure", be installed with a building permit, meet building, electrical and board of health code, get inspected, and get a C.O.E. As to Walmart and ownership? Whoever has the authority and powers of ownership is also able to sell the property if they like. I don't think you are going to find anyone working in a Walmart store that has that sort of authority. Somebody or some board near the top of the corporate structure, I suppose. Easy way to find out would check real-property tax records and see where the tax bill goes. Now I'm sure Walmart could authorize such permission slips and have them authorized and preprinted - ready to hand out to parking-lot campers if they want to. For all I know maybe it's been done somewhere. Not that I've ever heard of though. Legal documents are usually written in specific ways with certain words on purpose (unless someone screws up). In fact, going back to Old English law which much of our USA legal system is still based on - any word used within a legal document MUST be defined within that same document. If not - the word is to carry the "everyday" dictionary connotation. That is why virtually any properly written legal document carries a vocabulary to define what words mean in that context. Even so, our laws are still constantly "open to interpretation." The Santa Cruz document states clearly . . "written consent of both the business institution and property owner." Note it does not say "either-or", it says "both." If you were to walk into a Walmart, finding someone that represents the institution would likely be fairly easy. Finding someone who has power of "owner" , not so easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I assume I'm "preaching to the choir" and "beating a dead horse" all at the same time here. But here's another city ordinance virtually identical to the one in Worcester, NY were that farmer put his angry signs up when he had to go to court over his "illegal" RV. This one is from a city in Oregon. Just something I can across on the Net. I have NO specific knowledge of what that city is like to live in, or try to camp in. Same sort of wording as in Worcester, NY. NO RVs can be slept in anywhere within city limits regardless if on private property (unless in a registered campground). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 There are a number of Walmarts where overnight parking is not allowed. Some because there are municipal by-laws, some because there just isn't enough room in shared parking lots. As I said before, I don't care why there's NOP, only IF there's NOP. Doesn't matter to me if it's because of a law or any other reason. I suspect most feel the same way. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 And if you got BOTH permissions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 You try it and let us know how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 And if you got BOTH permissions? It would be similar to what is going on now in the state of Colorado. The state made marijuana legal yet it is still illegal according to Federal law . Technically Federal Law has precedence over state laws in matters like this (but not all). So Colorado says it's okay, and the Feds say "no it is not." Issue here is - that we have a Federal Government and a president that picks and chooses which laws to enforce and so far -this is not one of them. So go to a Walmart where a City has clearly made sleeping in an RV illegal and then Walmart says it is okay with them? It would clearly be illegal. Is someone going to enforce the law? Who knows? When it comes to local laws - what usually becomes a big issue is when laws are "selectively" enforced. President Obummer gets away with it. On a local level it tends to get noticed more. I think this is all moot. I doubt any Walmart is going to give written permission to camp within a city where it knows it is illegal. One case-in-point. The RV problems in the town in NY where I lived 40 years. It all started when two families got into a feud. They were next-door neighbors. One had a guy living in an RV and he'd stand out there and pee in sight of the neighbors. They got mad and called the local law - the local constable. He called ENCON (department of natural resources). Local law people tried to solve without getting "legal." But the feud went on. Then the neighbor with NO camper got two pigs and built a pen right on the property line. Then the neighbor WITH the illegal RV called the law again. Now we had an illegal RV and illegal pigs. The Town Board asked for advice from our local Town attorney (Marvin Parshall). He said that if the town wanted to enforce any law - they'd better make sure it's across the board. I.e. one person gets a ticket for their RV, then everyone else in town with an "illegal" RV also get a summons. Same for "illegal" farm animals. That's when the big fights got started. So in this case - it was all started by two idiot neighbors. If one had just shot the other we'd all of been better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 "Good fences make good neighbours." Then my municipality limits the height of walls and fences to 6 feet and doesn't allow barbed wire (unless you're a 'Farm'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I much prefer "no neighbors." Living somewhere that has neighbors in sight is fine as long as everyone gets along. If there's one person that you are at odds with - it can be a never-ending hell. I sold my 40 acres here in northern Michigan that was virtually in "the middle of nowhere" due to a feud that started 30 years before we owned it. My wife and I bought the place to build an off-grid rural home and be "left alone." We soon found out there'd been a feud with the previous owners of our land and the 240 acre hunting-club "next door." The feud reached a high point 20 years ago when one owner (the guy who had our land) pulled a gun on people from the hunt club. It went to court (the gun threat and property dispute). Ended up the property line in dispute was "etched in stone" by Court Order. So I had a legal court order saying where the line was. Well we soon found out that these hunt club members felt the court order was "unfair" and started trespassing on our land. Note - none of them lived in the area. All down-state city-people from Lansing and Detroit. It got to a point they actually put a gate across a road I owned and locked it. So I called a sheriff and told him I was going over with my bulldozer to knock the gate down. Note even though it was MY land - knocking down the gate was considered illegal. The sheriff came and said he might have to write me a summons if I destroyed the gate. I did it anyway and he held back. After that the hunt club people backed off a bit. That until I leased my land to a bunch of deer and bear hunters the following. I was in NY when I got an angry phone call from the people I'd leased the land too. Seems on opening day morning, over 20 four-wheelers with armed hunters came into our land from that hunt club. After that - my wife and I said "the hell with it." This sort of thing takes any joy out of owning land. Seems this feud was never going to end and we'd never feel comfortable on our own land. We bought 50 acres and an old farm house 30 miles away and love it. NO goddam feuds and what few people there are in the area - we like them and get along great. By the way - funny who we sold the "problem land" too. The hunt-club banned ALL woman from hunting with the men. So these guys come up year after year and the wives were forced to "stay at camp." A bunch of the bitter wives got together and bought our place so they could hunt RIGHT in view of the men. And maybe continue the feud in a new way? This is in Case Township near Onaway, in northern Michigan for anyone that cares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibs Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I much prefer "no neighbors." Living somewhere that has neighbors in sight is fine as long as everyone gets along. If there's one person that you are at odds with - it can be a never-ending hell. I sold my 40 acres here in northern Michigan that was virtually in "the middle of nowhere" due to a feud that started 30 years before we owned it. My wife and I bought the place to build an off-grid rural home and be "left alone." We soon found out there'd been a feud with the previous owners of our land and the 240 acre hunting-club "next door." The feud reached a high point 20 years ago when one owner (the guy who had our land) pulled a gun on people from the hunt club. It went to court (the gun threat and property dispute). Ended up the property line in dispute was "etched in stone" by Court Order. So I had a legal court order saying where the line was. Well we soon found out that these hunt club members felt the court order was "unfair" and started trespassing on our land. Note - none of them lived in the area. All down-state city-people from Lansing and Detroit. It got to a point they actually put a gate across a road I owned and locked it. So I called a sheriff and told him I was going over with my bulldozer to knock the gate down. Note even though it was MY land - knocking down the gate was considered illegal. The sheriff came and said he might have to write me a summons if I destroyed the gate. I did it anyway and he held back. After that the hunt club people backed off a bit. That until I leased my land to a bunch of deer and bear hunters the following. I was in NY when I got an angry phone call from the people I'd leased the land too. Seems on opening day morning, over 20 four-wheelers with armed hunters came into our land from that hunt club. After that - my wife and I said "the hell with it." This sort of thing takes any joy out of owning land. Seems this feud was never going to end and we'd never feel comfortable on our own land. We bought 50 acres and an old farm house 30 miles away and love it. NO goddam feuds and what few people there are in the area - we like them and get along great. By the way - funny who we sold the "problem land" too. The hunt-club banned ALL woman from hunting with the men. So these guys come up year after year and the wives were forced to "stay at camp." A bunch of the bitter wives got together and bought our place so they could hunt RIGHT in view of the men. And maybe continue the feud in a new way? This is in Case Township near Onaway, in northern Michigan for anyone that cares Gotta love the law protecting trespassers, I love it, we need more women with guns out there hunting and shooting. My 11 year old gets quite the look when she pulls out a M1 garand to shoot at the range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I think where I am, a 'neighbour' is technically anyone living within a mile of your property. So even if they can't see, hear, smell or taste what you're doing, they can still make a complaint as a 'neighbour'. Anonymously, of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Where I live (in NY or MI) a "neighbor is anyone who owns land contiguous to another. I've found that it takes at least 100 acres and having your home right in the middle to be somewhat protected from things neighbors do - like making noise, burning trash, etc. Problem is once you get over 100 acres - many people just treat it like it's public land and trespass. And that is NOT a "trespass" according to law. The law says you must prove a person knows they are trespassing to be found guilty of it. So they often just play "stoopid" when and if the law arrives. Last year I found a small SUV hidden in the bushes on my land during big-game season. This was during a time when there had been some local break-ins of rural unoccupied homes. We have no local police. So I called the State Police and asked if they could check the license plate number of the SUV that was hidden on MY land. They said "no." The trooper suggested that I hide in the woods near the SUV and wait for the owner to come back if I wanted to know who it was. So much for help from law enforcement ! I then called the county sheriff's office and told a deputy I was going to tow the SUV with my tractor. He warned me that if I damaged it I might be held liable and suggested I chain it to a tree so the owner could not leave. I did. Boy was the guy ticked off ! He was hunting on my land and claimed he thought he was on state land. Yeah - right - with posted signs all over the place ! County sherrif's deputy came right over and checked the guy out. No auto insurance, no driver's license, and no hunting license. He got in trouble for all that but did NOT get a trespassing summons. I later did the same with the local power company when some of their Canadian workers rolled over a huge machine on my land and cut a bunch of trees without my permission. I chained their machine to my tractor and then THEY called the State Police. This time the cops came. But once they got there they decided it was more of civil matter then a legal matter. I demanded cash payment for damages from the power company and they finally complied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibs Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Where I live (in NY or MI) a "neighbor is anyone who owns land contiguous to another. I've found that it takes at least 100 acres and having your home right in the middle to be somewhat protected from things neighbors do - like making noise, burning trash, etc. Problem is once you get over 100 acres - many people just treat it like it's public land and trespass. And that is NOT a "trespass" according to law. The law says you must prove a person knows they are trespassing to be found guilty of it. So they often just play "stoopid" when and if the law arrives. Last year I found a small SUV hidden in the bushes on my land during big-game season. This was during a time when there had been some local break-ins of rural unoccupied homes. We have no local police. So I called the State Police and asked if they could check the license plate number of the SUV that was hidden on MY land. They said "no." The trooper suggested that I hide in the woods near the SUV and wait for the owner to come back if I wanted to know who it was. So much for help from law enforcement ! I then called the county sheriff's office and told a deputy I was going to tow the SUV with my tractor. He warned me that if I damaged it I might be held liable and suggested I chain it to a tree so the owner could not leave. I did. Boy was the guy ticked off ! He was hunting on my land and claimed he thought he was on state land. Yeah - right - with posted signs all over the place ! County sherrif's deputy came right over and checked the guy out. No auto insurance, no driver's license, and no hunting license. He got in trouble for all that but did NOT get a trespassing summons. I later did the same with the local power company when some of their Canadian workers rolled over a huge machine on my land and cut a bunch of trees without my permission. I chained their machine to my tractor and then THEY called the State Police. This time the cops came. But once they got there they decided it was more of civil matter then a legal matter. I demanded cash payment for damages from the power company and they finally complied. you should the DNR, they are ticket happy, will gladly ticket the guy for trespass. they seem to have more power... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 you should the DNR, they are ticket happy, will gladly ticket the guy for trespass. they seem to have more power... Yes, the local conservation officer in my area of New York is our "local cop." He lives in town and gets called for near everything. If he is not around, the county sheriff gets called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKUltra Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 No popcorn, no beer, no problem. And some people watch television for entertainment! I can't be responsible for the drugs you're on. I think we frightened the grad student back into his books. Remember the person who started this thread entitled, "Lookin to buy?" Who's on first? HER books, thank you very much. Haha yeah I'm pretty much cross-eyed from reading already so there's no way I'm keeping up with this post. What were we talking about again? Oh yeah, ruled the Americana out - top end of my budget and figuring high mileage means more work, plus it's ugly as sin inside. Guy with the Rogue/Sandtana was supposed to get back from Joshua Tree yesterday but I still haven't heard back from him and ad is down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail powered Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I'm in San Diego for grad school and am exploring all options for affordable living situations for the duration of the program. It's just me, so I don't need anything huge, but I don't want to be clawing at the walls and claustrophobic either. Kind of glad now that the Chinook I initally wanted to buy didn't work out. Would have been rad to drive, probably not so much to live in. Gas mileage is more important to me than power, and ease of driving and parking is pretty high up there, too, so that plus cost would be the advantages of the Rogue. It's 4 cylinder, automatic, and the Americana is V6, automatic, probably nice to drive, just bigger and more gas consuming. Anybody know what kind of mileage they get? I've heard claims from 12 to 22. My guess would be right in the middle of that. If you are looking for an RV to live in while going to school in San Diego and are not going to be on private land you should look for a converted high top van that is not obviously an RV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKUltra Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 There's a really nice 77 Chinook that's been for sale for 3+ months, and I think the only reason it hasn't sold is because of the price. It was up for $9000, then awhile later relisted for 8000, then recently 7000. 52k miles, coach redone, outside perfect. Says mechanically fine. I'm thinking if it still didn't sell at 7k that's probably too high but it is a nice truck. I would like to make an offer on it but don't know what an appropriate price would be. If I just went by how much I wanted it I would've been selling plasma or something since I first saw it listed. Are there guidelines for pricing? I don't wanna insult the guy with an offer when he's already dropped his price twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail powered Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 that's pretty much what it sold for when it was new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 There's a really nice 77 Chinook that's been for sale for 3+ months, and I think the only reason it hasn't sold is because of the price. It was up for $9000, then awhile later relisted for 8000, then recently 7000. 52k miles, coach redone, outside perfect. Says mechanically fine. I'm thinking if it still didn't sell at 7k that's probably too high but it is a nice truck. I would like to make an offer on it but don't know what an appropriate price would be. If I just went by how much I wanted it I would've been selling plasma or something since I first saw it listed. Are there guidelines for pricing? I don't wanna insult the guy with an offer when he's already dropped his price twice. Are you talking about a Toyota Chinook or a bigger Chinook on a Dodge or Ford platform? None of them usually sell for more then $3000. Not where I've been or looked. 1979 was the last year for Toyota Chinooks (more or less) and I've come across many that were not perfect but ready to drive and use in the $2000 price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKUltra Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 It's a Toyota Chinook. I've never seen one that high, but relative to others I've seen sell out here and their condition, 7000 almost seemed reasonable. A refurbished Chinook Newport went for around 5000 and I almost bought a 76 very similar to this one for 6000 that wouldn't smog, needed brakes, needed the AC charged, and had an oil leak, and I'm sure there was more. Somebody else bought it for that price and took it out of state where the smog thing wasn't an issue. Yeah I think this is higher than what it went for new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 The price of a new Toyota Chinook in 1978 adjusted to today's US dollar is $26,000-$27,000.. Regardless, I've seen pretty nice pop-up roof Chinooks all over the country with prices from $1500 to $3500. I paid $500 for mine and it drove fine. Interior was a mess. I'm in the NE or northern midwest and micro-minis of any make or kind are scarce. Pop-up Chinooks even more so. They were only sold in three states when they first came out. I see many more 17'-21' high-roof micros near me then anything else. There's a pretty nice 1984 Datsun for sale near me right now that I've tried to buy but the old man will not budge on price. I assume he's a retired Detroit auto worker with money to burn. He bought it just as a "curiosity" a few years ago and has never used it. Not even once. His wife wants nothing to do with it. They have a big Class A and she won't step foot in the "little" Datsun/Nissan. It's a high-roof 18 footer, NO rust anywhere. Supposed to have 84K original miles that might be true. Looks like it and runs like it. He wants $3500. I don't need it, just want it and won't pay that high a price. It's a pretty nice one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKUltra Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 And you're in Detroit? Geez, maybe I should just fly home to visit my parents in Cleveland and then buy that one and drive it back. : ) They seem to be high out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I'm not anywhere near Detroit. I'm at the "tip of the mitt" in northern Michigan. The Datsun Minicruiser is in Oscoda, ZIP 48750, about 40 miles from me. 2.4 EFI engine, power steering, AC, 5 speed trans, full-floating rear. No rust anywhere that I could find. It has passenger-car tires on it with very slight weather-checking. I would not be afraid to drive it with them. I didn't check any of the RV stuff inside and I know the owner never did. He doesn't even have a clue what it is supposed to have. Obvious things I saw wrong are . . the 3-way refrigerator is gone and he stuck a dorm-sized 120 AC refrigerator in its place. No aux battery set up like it's supposed to be. He (the owner) has a battery he just sits on the floor and hooks to an inverter to run the microwave and refrigerator. I don't think he has ever really tried either for more then a few minutes. There is a compartment built OEM for the aux battery with an outside door. Just not being used. Also the waste-water tank is broken at the outlet. Looks like someone bottomed out and hit a tree-stump with it. It's ABS plastic and can be fixed with a little bit of patience and the correct black ABS solvent-glue (not always easy to find). He also has it listed as a 20 footer which has to be wrong. I have a 20 foot minicruiser and this one is 14" shorter. So I guess it should be called a 17 1/2 footer or an 18 footer. Pretty nice rig and with some - what I"d call minor work - it would be REAL nice. I'd love to know what kind of MPGs it gets. I'd like to think 17 MPG on the highway but that's only a guess. The old guy doesn't know. He hasn't even put a tank of gas in it since he got it two years ago. I almost think he just got it to p*ss off his wife. I know SHE wants it gone. He doesn't seem to care either way, as least so he says. He told me that if he doesn't get $3500 he' s going to use it for deer hunting. I asked him if he's ever even tried driving it in the snow and he said "no." If I could buy it for $2500-$2700, it would at my place by now. Spring is coming and prices on rigs like this will shoot up. My problem is - I don't need anymore RVs. So when I buy them now - I tell my wife it's an "investment" to fix up and sell. Problem is - once I get them, I don't want to part with them. RV "hoarding" I guess. I'm going to check out a 1983 Dolphin today. 21 footer on a Chevy S10 truck chassis with 2.8 V6, AC, power-steering, auto trans with lockup and OD, etc. $800. I'm just not sure if it's worth messing with. Fake duallies on back. An auto trans I KNOW will be a problem even though it works well right now. An 83 trans cannot even be upgraded to a point where it's reliable. Only good way to fix is find a 1988 or newer trans. upgrade it, and swap it in. Also a dog 2.8 GM V6 that is likely to get a lot worse fuel mileage then a Toyota or Datsun 2.4 four-cylinder. I drove it. It runs well. Been sitting with snow on top for several winters and even though I see no leaks inside, it's sure to have substantial rot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 These are the sort of ads I call on, and ignore the ones with the high prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKUltra Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 Picked this up today! They were willing to deal. http://m.ebay.com/itm/121533409694 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKUltra Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 I love Michigan and especially northern Michigan. I haven't been to the UP yet though! I surfed on the Great Lakes for 12 years before I moved to San Diego for school and we used to take surf trips to western Michigan, St. Joe's, Muskegon, and New Buffalo mostly. Haha it sounds like that guy is just getting his wife's goat. Sounds like a nice camper, maybe he'll come down eventually. All three of those ads look cool, prices are definitely higher out here. Like I said, half of Ocean Beach lives in one with HAKUNA MATATA and rainbows painted all over it. I went with the smaller Chinook to be a little less conspicuous (obnoxious). Also it seems like the more conveniences and features, the more problems to fix. Sounds like you're willing/able to do a lot more work than I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbit Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Nice unit! Congratulations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I love the map table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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