Chains

[Patreeguy]

Trying to decide on snow chains for my rv. Does any one have advice on wether to put on the dual wheels or just a single wheel on the rear? Also how do these rv,s perform in the snow?

[Maineah]

Don't think there is room for a single chain they do make chains that cover both tires maybe a bit hard to find for a toy home though.

[zero]

Trying to decide on snow chains for my rv. Does any one have advice on wether to put on the dual wheels or just a single wheel on the rear? Also how do these rv,s perform in the snow?

Singles chains would work well enough for traction. Not so easy to get on and off though. You've got maybe 1 1/2" to 2" of room between the dual tires and the inside of the chain has a hook that has to be put into a chain link opening.

You can go single IF you can get your fingers in that opening.

Or - buy two pairs of 185R-14" chains and make dually chains out of them. Easy to do IF you have the special tire-chain spreaders.

Or - buy pre-made dually chains for 7.50 X 15" LT chains and cut them down a bit to fit.

I use tire chains on my plow trucks, Never considered it on a Toyota RV. Anywhere I go - if there's snow there is road-salt. Road-salt kills an older Toyota frame and sheet-metal real fast.

[Maineah]

If the chains touch the other tire witch they probably will it will wreck the tire there is not enough space for one size up in tire size.

[WME]

Thule makes traction chains that are only mounted on the outside.

[zero]

A conventional set of chains made for duallies will work fine IF that's what you want. Somebody with a good set of tire-chain-pliers can cut down a set made for 7.50-15" LT tires and make them fit your's with half-and-hour's work.

Main question is - do you want chains capable of sustaining highway speeds that you'll leave on for long periods of time during storms? Or do you just want something to strap on when you get stuck, get unstuck, and then remove?

[5Toyota]

or use a vice and hacksaw to shorten and a pri bar and pliers to unhook the cross links . after many years i bought some of those plierst

[5Toyota]

i dont know about a moterhome but on the cars i used to have i aways bought the bar reinforced type or VBAR type. in my rear drive cars i was going when no one else could go that type is good on bad ice and compact snow. i have gotten stuck in deep mud and got unstuck with chains. as for me personaly i never had sucess with cable chains thru a set in the garbadge once. never bought any more.

[powdrhound]

The chains that you want for 185R14 tires are SCC Z-547.

Right now on Amazon they are $84.99 w- free shipping.

Installing the chains is about a 15 minute stop, including walking the dog. I carry 4 10" long pieces of almost 2x4's (2x6's that split down the middle. I like the 4 pieces better, so have not replaced them.)

1. Lay out your heavy plastic garbage bag on the ground near the rear of the tires.

2. Behind the inside tire (assuming you are facing uphill), lay one 2x6 flat about 3" behind the inside tire. Centered on the tire, or far enough under that it will not touch the outer tire later. There has to be a good gap to install the chains.

3. Place the other piece at a 45 degree angle, between the tire and block #1. Snug block #1 up to hold block #2 tight.

4. Fire the engine and back up onto the blocks. The angled one tilts up flat, you stop while on top of the blocks. Moving maybe 7-8" or so.

5. Kill the engine, set your brake Firmly.

6. The outside tire is now hanging in space.

7. Determine which side of the chains is tire side and which is road side. They should be curving correctly, but check. Lay them out and insure that they are not twisted.

8. Slide the center of the inner cable under the hanging tire, and up between the tires. Pull it up as far as you can.

9. With your arms covered by the elbow length gloves that come with the chain kit, pull the ends of the inner cable around and over the tire and reach back between and above the tires to hook the C latch. Maintain tension on the chains to avoid the C latch unhooking. Having enough working clearance can be enhanced by having higher air bag pressures. For us without built-in air pumps, carry a bicycle pump.

10. Insert the top outer cable end into it's slot and pull it in a few balls.

11. Give the outer cables a tug to start evening out the cross chains.

12. Insert the bottom outer cable end into it's slot and pull it in a few balls.

13. Continue tugging on the cables, and moving the cross chains, and pulling thru the balls on the top and bottom ends until you can pull the cables to their absolute tightest position. (185R14's)

14. Secure the cable ends. The chains come with heavy plastic coiled tubes that wrap around the cables. Radio Shack carry's similar stuff. Get some. I use two pieces per cable end. Total of 8, and carry spares.

15. Although they say not to use cable tighteners on these chains, I find that our limited clearances forces me to use tighteners. I have big bungie cords with fat plastic ends that I wrap around the outer cables, as tight as I can. Then wrap wire safety fasteners around them, to hold them from flailing, should they fail.

16. Fire the engine and move the rig off of the blocks.

17. Repeat on the other side.

18. Test drive a few feet.

19. If the chains are making contact with anything (mine likes to hit the fiberglass edges) re-tighten the bungie cords. Or add air to the air bags. Or drive slow. Or go home.

20. If all is quiet, start driving, slowly. You may find that you have a speed limit where the cables start to hit. Slow down. Or check that the cables are TIGHT.

With the Z chains, there is always a piece of cable under the tire. No bump-bump-bump-bump of regular cable chains. A smooth drive. 25 MPH is slow. 40 MPH is comfortable. These are the chains the CHP uses on their cruisers.

Removing the chains can be easy, or not. Easy is:

1. Stop the rig with the Red cable end a few inches above the pavement. Preferably on the back side.

2. Unhook the tighteners and cable wraps. Leave the cable wraps partially wrapped on the cable for storage.

3. Loosen both outer ends a few balls, then fully remove the outer cable ends.

4. Pull the cables back behind the tire and create enough slack to unhook the inner C connector.

5. Drag the cables over the tire and lay flat-ish on the ground in front of the tire.

6. Repeat on the other side.

7. Drive forward off of the cables.

8. Shake off as much water as you can, then stuff the cables, bungies and wires into the heavy plastic garbage bag for the ride home.

9. Wash off the cables when you get home, lay out to dry, and pack them back up.

The Not Easy:

3a. If I have been driving through a lot of snow or slush with overnight stays (Isn't that the whole point?), then I develop a ring of ice between the wheels, right about where the inner cable resides. This 2" thick Ice Ring evenly and thoroughly encases said cable. Until the ice ring is removed, the cable is going nowhere.

I carry a long shaft screwdriver to poke through the holes in the wheels, chipping at the ice until it is chunked off. This can take 15-20 minutes per tire. Sitting on the plastic bag. Using an ice pick worked, but just felt wrong. Poking at the tires with a pick...

Also carry side cutting dykes in case a cross member fails (Too many miles on dry R1 roads... California controls can be tight. For the Bay Area drivers that have No right to be on a snow covered road.). Cut it off and get a replacement cross member from SCC through your local dealer. (NAPA)

I have used my chains dozens of times. Drive carefully and cautiously. Don't do anything too fast; accelerating, stopping or turning. We have more traction than power, but stopping is still pure physics. Anticipate the slick spots on the road. (North facing, tree shaded, melt water covered corner on an otherwise dry road. Duh.) Anticipate stopping. Think smooth. I have driven through 2' of snow in the Kirkwood RV lot. Not quickly, but we got out!

Yes, you can.

Let it Snow!

[zero]

The chains that you want for 185R14 tires are SCC Z-547.

Right now on Amazon they are $84.99 w- free shipping.

Those are low-speed cables made for temporary use. No chains I can see. Fine to get out of a mess. I would never use them for any sustained driving.

[zero]

Funny thing I just read about the legal (or illegal) use of tire chains here in Michigan. I've used them for many years in New York but am new to winters here in northern Michigan. I just ordered a set of chains for all four wheels on my plow truck. Now it looks as though they are illegal on public highways in Michigan. Same with studded tires as far as I can tell. Here's the law. Main point is that the chains are NOT allowed to ever touch the road. So if you are driving in snow - they'll touch the road they are illegal. If on ice - I guess it's legal until you hit a soft spot and touch the road surface.

MCL 257.710 of the Michigan Vehicle Code covers the use of tire chains, and states that a person may "use a tire chain of reasonable proportion upon a vehicle when required for safety because of snow, ice, or other condition tending to cause a vehicle to skid." If used, the chain must not come in contact with the surface of the roadway.

[Derek up North]

I guess it might be worth asking around locally to see how the law is applied. I'm guessing that many States might have similar clauses to stop idiots from chewing up the roads needlessly.

Here, studs are allowed but only between certain dates otherwise people on a budget would drive with them all year. Chains are rarely seen (or heard) on the road. I've got several sets but have rarely used them. In fact, I'm not sure if any of them fit any of the vehicles I currently have on the road.

[zero]

In New York, studs are allowed only between Oct 16 to April 30. Here in Michigan the law is arbitrary. Studs are allowed in northern Michigan and the UP (not southern MI) - if they have been tested and certified to not wear the road surface more then 25% over that or non-studded tires. Problem is - there are no tire companies selling Michigan-certified studded tires that I know of. So it seems they are all illegal.

To the converse - there are many rural roads in northern NY and the Adirondacks were chains or studs are legally required and you can get a ticket if you get caught without them during specified winter dates.

[5Toyota]

in wash state studs are legel nov 1 to april 1 can be required in the mtns . chains are often required in the mtn passes. some exemp if you have a 4wd. 2 wh drive when chain requiered sighn is up you better have them on or get a tiket.

[Derek up North]

Here (Quebec) snow tires are requires from December 15th to March 15th. Not for visitors, just residents. I've never heard of anywhere here where studs or chains are required.

A major PITA is that starting this year, the snow tires MUST have a little symbol molded in the side with a snowflake inside a mountain. I've got a few sets of real snow tires (Michelin Arctic 4x4, Yokohame Guardex 600) that are real snow tires but since they don't have 'the symbol', they are technically illegal!!

[chefdave]

Hi

no legal requirement in uk for snow tyres or chains but in scottish highlands most people have two sets of tyres or all season tyres fitted. i have driven through 2" of snow on mountains in a 4x4 which could not engauge 4wd. with snow tyres it was like driving on a dry road. It was very cold windscreen froze around edges with heater on full. was one of the last to use the road before it shut as blizzards where making it impossiable to keep road clear. yes several people knew i was on road before i left. when i got off mountain phoned them to say i was off and safe in a local town. had full kit of sleeping bag flasks of hot water enough food to last 2 days snow shovel and 20kg of cat litter for extra traction also had a tow rope. maybe i could of taken more for winter driving but much better equiped than 99% of other drivers.

[zero]

Here (Quebec) snow tires are requires from December 15th to March 15th. Not for visitors, just residents. I've never heard of anywhere here where studs or chains are required.

A major PITA is that starting this year, the snow tires MUST have a little symbol molded in the side with a snowflake inside a mountain.

That "snowflake" won't mean much on studless-snows once that soft OD wears off.

I just checked around, curious about what other places require snow chains in certain places or at certain times. Kind of interesting (at least to me).

USA Chain laws when chains are required:

California - Required to be equipped with tire traction devices when entering a signed restricted area.

For more information, go to Caltrans’ Web site

Colorado - When the chain law is in effect, drivers will see signs along the roadway indicating which

vehicles should chain-up. In some areas of the state, lighted variable message signs will also alert drivers

of the chain-up information..Metal chains must consist of two circular metal loops, one on each side of

the tire, connected by not less than nine evenly spaced chains across the tread. Commercial vehicles

having four or more drive wheels must chain four wheels. Dual tire chains are acceptable. For more

information, go to CDOT’s Web site

Maryland - In case of declared snow emergency, chains will be required on certain designated

highways. Studded snow tires are not allowed on vehicles having a registered gross weight of more than

10,000 pounds.

Nevada - Requires operators of all vehicles of more than 10,000 pounds (GVW) to install chains when

chains or snow tire requirements are in effect. Vehicles over 10,000 pounds (GVW) are permitted in

chain control areas when equipped with chains or Automatic Traction Devices (MTD) on drive axles.

Studded snow tires are permitted between October 1 and April 30. For more information, go to NDOT’s

Web site

New York - Tire chains are required when a snow emergency has been declared. Cities and towns can also require chains on designated roads.

Oregon - Tire chains are required when conditions demand because of snow, ice or other inclement

weather and signs are posted. For more information, go to ODOT’s Web site

Pennsylvania - One set of chains or snow tires is required when vehicles are likely to encounter any

adverse weather conditions which may require chains. They must consist of not less than five cross

chains and must not project more than an inch on the outside surface of the wheel.

South Carolina - Vehicles likely to encounter conditions requiring chains must carry them and have

them ready for use.

Utah - Vehicles likely to encounter conditions requiring chains must carry sets for at least one driving

wheel on each side. Signs will designate when chains are required.

Washington - The chain requirements are effective when the department of transportation has posted

signs marked “chains required.” On certain routes sufficient tire chains must always be carried on the

vehicle from Nov 1 to Apr 1. The number of chains required varies, depending on the number of axles

and vehicle configuration. At least two extra chains must be carried on the vehicle

Canada chain laws where/when chains are required:

British Columbia - Vehicles in the mountains must be equipped with snow tires or chains from Nov 1

to Apr 30

Newfoundland - Required on drive wheels when there is snow or ice on the surface of the highway

[Derek up North]

It seems that some manufacturers are working towards a 'true' 4-Season tire suitable for Winter/Snow use.

http://www.kumhotire.ca/en/tire/category/car/C1E1B42F-0CB4-4441-9FFE-928F952D63FC

They call it 'All Weather' as opposed to an 'All Season'.

[zero]

I always figured any tire sold as "studless" is an all-weather tire. I'm sold on them. They have worked better for me on ice then real studded tires. Like the Bridgestone Blizzak WS80s or Dunlop Grapic DS2s. Only down-side is their traction-integrity relies on that soft OD that wears off in 10,000-20,000 miles. Once gone, the tires still look great but lose that superior ice-gripping ability. Had them on my Subaru AWD summer and winter for over 10 years. Now they are getting dry-rot cracks due to age.

As I recall, when the tires now called Bridgestone Blizzaks first came out - they were sold as Firestone Snowbiters. I got my first set in 1978 or 79 while living in Vermont along the Canadian border. I was skeptical until I actually tried them. Best tires I ever had and beat anything I'd had with metal studs.

The Firestone name got dropped after that silly Ford/Firestone lawsuit involving Ford Explorers, Firestone tires run at inadequate pressure, and speeds too high for an SUV going around corners. After that, Firestone stopped calling itself "Firestone" in the USA for many years and reverted to it's alternative name used overseas of "Bridgestone."

As I read the literature - the new Blizzaks have to wear 60% before that super-soft ice-gripping OD is gone. That's good enough to make them a full-time tire, it seems.

[Derek up North]

As I see it, those Kumho 'All Weather' tires are 'good' to use in the Summer as well , so they won't wear excessively and suffer from the heat unlike 'traditional 'Snow' tires in Summer. So a real 4-Season (All Weather) rather than 3-Season (All Season) tire.

[powdrhound]

So, considering our choices for the standard 185R14C are getting really slim, what tire size is everybody using?

The choices for the Kumho on a 5.5" rim:

185-60

185-65

185-70

[Derek up North]

Those are all passenger car tire sizes and probably won't carry the weight you have.

Though you won't find dozens and dozens of tires to chose from in 185R14 Load Range c or D, there are still plenty of different makes and models available. Including the Kumho 857.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Radial+857&partnum=8R4857

I don't know why, but Tire Rack has them listed as a 'Trailer Tire'. I don't know why. Kumho doesn't. Besides, a real Trailer Tire would be marked as 'ST185R14' and not '185R14C'.

http://www.tires-easy.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=135&cart_id=25766781.135.9903&sowigan=&Breite=185&Quer=&Felge=14&Speed=&kategorie=6&LoadRange=&Marke=&ranzahl=4&search_tool=standard&tyre_for=&rsmFahrzeugart=ALL&suchen=View+Tires

http://simpletire.com/volkswagen-vanagon-campmobile-185r14c

[kayakthecoast]

I ordered these for my rear outside only dually tires. They have the right clearance and should work ok. Pretty cheap, 30 day warranty, and free shipping! I heard they have good customer relations. They are not light truck rated, my rig is 4wheel drive and I only need them for (legally) accessing National Parks so I went with the cheep ones! 90% of the time I usually only use chains on the front for my local forest roads for backcountry ski trips - with 4x4 it works fine going slow and it seems to plow a nice path for good traction for my rear tires without chains.

http://www.etrailer.com/p-TC1550.html

these fit 215 75 R15, my wheel size and have the "S" rating for minimal tire clearance.

I have a set of heavier duty ones for the front which has plenty of clearance.

[Chris Mac]

Did anyone ever come to a conclusion with the about chains for a dually?

I live in Oregon and sometimes they are mandatory for the passes. Don't want to drive in those conditions but want to have something in the rig for worse case scenario?????