Rot Rot Et Rot - Part Deux

[shibs]

It was been raining for the past 3/4 days off and on.

I drove to the storage place today to check out the water intrusion and pinpoint the leak source.

As I unlocked the door and entered it an overwhelming feeling of "Oh expletive, this is probably way beyond what I can handle" came over me.

I kept digging at the rotting plywood and reached the foam boards. It was pretty amusing to see how winni sandwiched the foam boards to the ply to the frame.

I carefully removed the foam board from the center, then the 2 side foam pieces.

I discovered that there are 2 triangular metal pieces attached to the inside edge of the cabover (see pic below).

The front of the foam boards weighed a ton as winni used an open cell foam board which absorbed water.

then I began to clean up all the loose plylayers and reached the fiberglass skin of the cabover.

I was surprised to see that the center wood going to front of the cab over is NOT attached to anything in the front.

I found that the passenger side sagged like half an inch and the previous owner tried to attach an aluminum plate to edge, which I pulled to see and bent it :-(.

I checked my phone and it was time to head back home as the midgets are going to wake soon.

I started to bag the garbage wet rotten ply pieces and told myself that this is doable and I just needed to break the task down to manageable pieces.

I also found that the roof around the a/c has sagged around an inch. How do I fix this?

So here is the plan:

1. seal all the windows and marker lights and edges.

2. temp seal the pass side edge above the door

3. fix water leak above bathroom

4. seal awning both holes

5. seal the entire length of the edge trim.

[zero]

Not many options to fix the roof that I know of IF you want to retain the original thickness and strength. Winnebago and many other RV makers use "structured panel" design where 1 plus 1 basically equals 3. Foam glued to thin plywood gives a sum strength that exceeds each part individually. The roof of the house I'm living in is built the same way but with 10" of foam and OSB wood - all glued together. My Toyota Minicruiser is built the same way and also had open-cell foam. Also Luan based plywood that delaminated something awful so I assume it was "interior" grade wood.

[chefdave]

Hi
your over cab floor is better state than mine before repairing mine. front seal looks like it is fixed using butyl tape and bottom is pop rivets through aluminum on sides. not sure about rest as my dolphin has a different set type of construction. no open cell foam insulation or metal plates. just a timber frame.
Others on here hopefully guide you better than myself. job is very doable have rebuilt my overcab floor using two sheets of ply and roof batterns. took me about a day. upgraded the thickness of ply to 6mm and wood frame to 20mm x 50mm. it is very stiff.

[jdfrost64]

picture #3 they probly just forgot to staple it . that's what trailer rats are known for.hurry hurry your mini was probly built from ground up in less than 4 days. that is why so much stuff gets missed. we used to build forty footers in 5 days. I,m restoring a sunland express.i have a whole page of crap that I had to redo because the inspectors were lazy. first time a saw mini that I bought. i seen there was a four foot piece of sidewall trim that was forgotten from the factory

[shibs]

Not many options to fix the roof that I know of IF you want to retain the original thickness and strength. Winnebago and many other RV makers use "structured panel" design where 1 plus 1 basically equals 3. Foam glued to thin plywood gives a sum strength that exceeds each part individually. The roof of the house I'm living in is built the same way but with 10" of foam and OSB wood - all glued together. My Toyota Minicruiser is built the same way and also had open-cell foam. Also Luan based plywood that delaminated something awful so I assume it was "interior" grade wood.

jdemaris,

No way, you live in a sips panel home, wow, that is soooo cool. Did you have it built from scratch?

I am bit versed with sandwich panels being an engineer in my last life, I have been looking at energy efficient homes construction as a hobby. it was interesting to see how the winnie was put together.

I plan to replace the foam boards with closed cell rigid boards. Any recommendation as to which one I should get, pink board?

I don't really need the a/c as most of my trips will be during the cooler months.

Will adding sqaure beams to the roof to add to the support from the inside be any good?

[shibs]

Hi

your over cab floor is better state than mine before repairing mine. front seal looks like it is fixed using butyl tape and bottom is pop rivets through aluminum on sides. not sure about rest as my dolphin has a different set type of construction. no open cell foam insulation or metal plates. just a timber frame.

Others on here hopefully guide you better than myself. job is very doable have rebuilt my overcab floor using two sheets of ply and roof battens. took me about a day. upgraded the thickness of ply to 6mm and wood frame to 20mm x 50mm. it is very stiff.

Dave,

what kind of ply did ya use? and what the wood frame attached to at the rear/base of the base over?

yes, I plan to get some butyl tape when I take my HR to flush out the grey and black at general rv. it wil rain again this week, so I have to wait to seal the front windows and marker lights.

[shibs]

picture #3 they probly just forgot to staple it . that's what trailer rats are known for.hurry hurry your mini was probly built from ground up in less than 4 days. that is why so much stuff gets missed. we used to build forty footers in 5 days. I,m restoring a sunland express.i have a whole page of crap that I had to redo because the inspectors were lazy. first time a saw mini that I bought. i seen there was a four foot piece of sidewall trim that was forgotten from the factory

Jody,

4 days, wow, now that is fast, were the walls preforms?

can I staple the pieces of wood in question to the foam board that is sitting next to it?

Are you still working on your toy?

[chefdave]

Hi shibs
my dolphin over cab is 4 foot front to back and width was 7 foot. easy cut. put down one sheet made up frame out of battern. battern was attached using the outside trim fixing. ie metal trim runs down sides and another lot underneath. used 1 1/4" screws. then put foil bubble insulation between batterns same as loft insulation fitting. then put second sheet on top. screwed it into batterns. all my over cab floor and walls are attached to this frame. something like 50 screws used to attach walls and floor. followed all original holes in body work. electric screw driver huge bonus. ply i used was bog standard then going to use a yacht vanish wash to soak in and seal ply. as marine ply is not easy to obtain and has to be specially ordered. if using marine ply i could of used 4mm instead of 6mm. as alot stronger but heavier.

[zero]

jdemaris,

No way, you live in a sips panel home, wow, that is soooo cool. Did you have it built from scratch?

I am bit versed with sandwich panels being an engineer in my last life, I have been looking at energy efficient homes construction as a hobby. it was interesting to see how the winnie was put together.

I plan to replace the foam boards with closed cell rigid boards. Any recommendation as to which one I should get, pink board?

I don't really need the a/c as most of my trips will be during the cooler months.

Will adding sqaure beams to the roof to add to the support from the inside be any good?

The house we live in during the winter (approx a month from now) was built with SIP walls and roof about 15 years ago. As far as I know, it was first one built in this area. I think the walls are 10" and the roofs 14" thick. OSB sandwiches with white foam in the middle (NOT PolyIso). The house is tight but still very expensive to heat when using propane. It has an awful in-floor PEX hot-water-boiler heating system and very high "open design" ceilings which also make it harder to heat. I'm in the process of putting in wood-heat and we'll see how it goes this year. I also wonder what happens in a house like this when the roof has leaked and the OSB on top rots? The total structural integrity of the roof depends on the total glued sandwich of OSB against foam core against OSB. No rafters up there. We'll see.

In regard to your RV, the pink foam has less R value then the polyiso but . . the pink board is what is usually used when glued to plywood for strength. In regard to adding square beams? I did it with my Toyota Chinook. Only had 1" of space and I used heavy-wall 1" square aluminum tubing. When I redid my 1988 Toyota Minicruiser - I used wood. The strongest and most rot-resistant I could find - i.e. White Oak. Granted that pressure-treated southern-yellow-pine is also strong and rot-resistant. But with that - it often comes wet and will warp as it dries and the chemicals used in the treatment are often very corrosive to metal. Especially bad if it contacts aluminum. Thus the reason why I used white oak.

[Skydancer2992]

My Warrior had water damage in the shape of a U on the floor of the bunk area over the cab. I pealed the wood down to almost the foam. Then cut fiberglass cloth to fit over the affected area and then over about four inches of the remaining "good wood". Poured about a quart of mixed epoxy resin over the surface. The fiberglass cloth swelled up with the resin. The remaining dry rot wood melded well inside the resin.

Next, a U - shaped piece of carpet covers the area around the cab opening everything looks like new.

For extra integrity, I placed a couple of 2' X 5' plywood boards over the bunk area. Folding over the futon mattress, I can slide one board forward to open up the cab "ceiling" but usually I never do.

[jdfrost64]

shibs should have mini done by spring. finishing up outside.just welding on new 4 inch sewer bumper sunday. only thing left on outside is new airbags one e brake cable and then seal mini. then over the winter do inside completely. new ceiling,complete carpete .new lights kitchen and bath vanity. bathroom and kitchen paneling. have compete rebuild of inside of the overhead cab done. only about 6 feet of wood on mini is factory.funny thing 95% of the wood was either gone or rotten on mini .only a small 8"x10" spot was bad on entire floor. everything above the floor was rotten or gone. the back was the worst had to use the stains from were the wood was for patterns. I have 125 pictures of every step on rebuilding it. guess working 30 years in a rv plant came in handy lol

[shibs]

The house we live in during the winter (approx a month from now) was built with SIP walls and roof about 15 years ago. As far as I know, it was first one built in this area. I think the walls are 10" and the roofs 14" thick. OSB sandwiches with white foam in the middle (NOT PolyIso). The house is tight but still very expensive to heat when using propane. It has an awful in-floor PEX hot-water-boiler heating system and very high "open design" ceilings which also make it harder to heat. I'm in the process of putting in wood-heat and we'll see how it goes this year. I also wonder what happens in a house like this when the roof has leaked and the OSB on top rots? The total structural integrity of the roof depends on the total glued sandwich of OSB against foam core against OSB. No rafters up there. We'll see.

In regard to your RV, the pink foam has less R value then the polyiso but . . the pink board is what is usually used when glued to plywood for strength. In regard to adding square beams? I did it with my Toyota Chinook. Only had 1" of space and I used heavy-wall 1" square aluminum tubing. When I redid my 1988 Toyota Minicruiser - I used wood. The strongest and most rot-resistant I could find - i.e. White Oak. Granted that pressure-treated southern-yellow-pine is also strong and rot-resistant. But with that - it often comes wet and will warp as it dries and the chemicals used in the treatment are often very corrosive to metal. Especially bad if it contacts aluminum. Thus the reason why I used white oak.

14 inch thick ceiling, in terms of insulation that is 10 inches more than what I probably have in my 60 year old ranch ;-).

I am sorry to hear about the roof leak, you will probably need to add timber framing from the inside to support the load of the roof at the seam.

Plex heating was probably done so the floor hold the heat and radiates it as you have vaulted ceilings. maybe adding a few fans to the roof will circulate the air and make it comfortable and save some heating expense. you want to some body with lotta mass, like concrete floor and then that radiates the heat slowly.

ok, I will get polyiso, it is closed cell, I found it in lowes,

I am not sure what i am going to use for the bottom and top layer to replace the rotting plywood for the cab. I am trying to understand how the cab was constructed.

[shibs]

My Warrior had water damage in the shape of a U on the floor of the bunk area over the cab. I pealed the wood down to almost the foam. Then cut fiberglass cloth to fit over the affected area and then over about four inches of the remaining "good wood". Poured about a quart of mixed epoxy resin over the surface. The fiberglass cloth swelled up with the resin. The remaining dry rot wood melded well inside the resin.

Next, a U - shaped piece of carpet covers the area around the cab opening everything looks like new.

For extra integrity, I placed a couple of 2' X 5' plywood boards over the bunk area. Folding over the futon mattress, I can slide one board forward to open up the cab "ceiling" but usually I never do.

Sky,

I like the idea to use resin and fiberglass cloth, it will bond everything and add strength.

I am sorry I did not quite follow the last paragraph. any pics?

Thanks,

[shibs]

shibs should have mini done by spring. finishing up outside.just welding on new 4 inch sewer bumper sunday. only thing left on outside is new airbags one e brake cable and then seal mini. then over the winter do inside completely. new ceiling,complete carpete .new lights kitchen and bath vanity. bathroom and kitchen paneling. have compete rebuild of inside of the overhead cab done. only about 6 feet of wood on mini is factory.funny thing 95% of the wood was either gone or rotten on mini .only a small 8"x10" spot was bad on entire floor. everything above the floor was rotten or gone. the back was the worst had to use the stains from were the wood was for patterns. I have 125 pictures of every step on rebuilding it. guess working 30 years in a rv plant came in handy lol

jdfrost,

I have to swing by sometime before the white stuff start coming down to take a peek at your build.

I can't believe how much time you spent on the build.

can you please tell me which plywood you picked for you build and where did you source them from?

I went to menards wyoming and they had marine grade ply, it was 2x the price of regular ply. Also, how are you sealing the edges?

Thanks,

[jdfrost64]

shibs

I,ll give you a call back on Friday after 8 pm I should be out of the woods by then. as for sealing edges I take u mean the sidewall. there two ways .either take trim off and reputty tape . or if putty tape still looks good clean old chalk off and go around both inside and outside of trim with mek or laqu thinner make sure get as much dirt and chalk off. use dicor non leveling sealent chalk go to a rv dealer it,s about 9 bucks a tube. it,s better than silicon when it comes time to reseal later down the road. as for ply . if your mini needs a lot of work u might be better off driving down here .and we can get the parts you need. I can get you the right material to rebuild your whole outside and new roof of your mini for around four or five hundred

[SCRIPAL]

You and others might find this presentation helpful in locating leaks.

This Simple Leak Test Will Find Small Undetected Water Leaks.htm

[shibs]

I love the idea of leak test, I am going to perform it next spring, it got down to 24F in the morning so I don't want to add more H2O to the camper now.

I drove down to check out the leaks yesterday.

What does a guy who is afraid of heights do check out the top of the camper? use his truck bed as a platform to stand on. Notice my buddy setting up the ladder on top of the truck bed.

First thing I realized that the camper is NOT that tall, look at pic #1.

I found that water leaking from the back above the stove where the awning is attached, I looks like it is leaking from the edge seam above the awning, notice the awning screws are backing out (pic#2)

I pulled up the trim cover and could not tell if there is a gap there.

Then it struck me as I looked over behind the a/c. wow, the fridge vent cover is BROKEN, it is cracked and is missing a large piece (pic #4)

Where do I get a new cover? what size is it?

[jdfrost64]

I have a frig cover if you want it

[shibs]

Jodi, sure, I will take it, Thanks

[jdfrost64]

if it doesn,t fit I can get you a new complete vent both halfs for around 15 or

20 dollars . won,t get your way until lakes ice up.

[shibs]

Jodi, I will opt for both pls :-)

I went yesterday and taped up the hole with a/c aluminum tape, the plastic was very brittle, just a mere touch would crack it.

No worries, I won't work on it till spring anyway, I am going to cover the toyo. Thanks,

[jdfrost64]

better off just putting a whole new one in then it will last . u can put a new vent in about 30 minutes.just pull old one off clean roof putty tape new one screw it down then seal it. then u are done. I could do it for you

[shibs]

better off just putting a whole new one in then it will last . u can put a new vent in about 30 minutes.just pull old one off clean roof putty tape new one screw it down then seal it. then u are done. I could do it for you

I agree, new one it is, I will take you up on the offer [Thanks!], but the we are supposed to get snow here, and it will be in the 20s and 30s, will dicor stick in cold temps?

[Motion_man1]

I am searching for replacement vents as well and am not seeing what I'm looking for on Google. I measured 7.5" span on current broken vent so I would be looking for an 8" vent and cover?

Any suggestions of where to purchase?

[shibs]

I am not sure, was that a special size from Winni? or a regular size?

[linda s]

I am searching for replacement vents as well and am not seeing what I'm looking for on Google. I measured 7.5" span on current broken vent so I would be looking for an 8" vent and cover?

Any suggestions of where to purchase?

This is the only size vent I know of smaller than the standard 14x14 vent used on motorhomes. I have 2 of these in my Tiger Provan but have never seen one on a Toyota. If this isn't it we are going to need a picture

http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-x-9-Mini-ROOF-VENT-for-RV-Bathroom-Trailer-Camper-Cargo-Tent-pop-up-WHITE-/181320094792?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a37851448&vxp=mtr

Linda S

[zero]

This is the only size vent I know of smaller than the standard 14x14 vent used on motorhomes. I have 2 of these in my Tiger Provan but have never seen one on a Toyota. If this isn't it we are going to need a picture

I've installed two of those 9" vents. Both came from some place called "Hengs" in China and both the ones I got were absolute pieces of junk. Maybe things have changed but when I was searching for a 9" square vent last year - the Hengs were all I could find.

[linda s]

I've installed two of those 9" vents. Both came from some place called "Hengs" in China and both the ones I got were absolute pieces of junk. Maybe things have changed but when I was searching for a 9" square vent last year - the Hengs were all I could find.

Yes both of the ones in my Tiger had to be replaced and they are from Hengs. Yes they are very cheaply made but unless you want to cut bigger holes in the roof you make do

Linda S

[Motion_man1]

These are circular roof vents on the 1985 Mirage--one above the kitchen area and one above the marine bathroom. I will take pictures at home and post soon. "Roof vent" may not be the correct or commonly used term for this part.

[Motion_man1]

12v roof vent with fan on eBay seems like it would work, though I would opt for regular vent without power if it would knock the price in half:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ventline-Inc-Vanair-12v-VP-543-/231475832166?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6393

[Derek up North]

I'm not sure how much air movement you'll get with a 6" diameter, non-powered vent. There's certainly not much with a 14" square one.

[Motion_man1]

These are pictures of the two smaller vents. One is in the bathroom and one over the kitchenette area in back of the '85 Mirage. I've decided to first buy and install the Fan-tastic 14" vent for the main ceiling vent that pooped out a few years ago (factory original). I think that's going to do more for our airflow in summer than the two smaller vents.

[zero]

These are pictures of the two smaller vents. One is in the bathroom and one over the kitchenette area in back of the '85 Mirage. I've decided to first buy and install the Fan-tastic 14" vent for the main ceiling vent that pooped out a few years ago (factory original). I think that's going to do more for our airflow in summer than the two smaller vents.

My 1988 Minicruiser had a round ceiling vent in the bathroom that kind of looks like one you posted. I put a 14" 3 speed reversible Fantastic vent in the ceiling in the center of the roof and love it. It's quiet and draws a lot of fresh air from all the windows if open when run in reverse. My dog likes it too when we leave her alone for short periods on hot days.

[DanRT66]

Hi shibs

my dolphin over cab is 4 foot front to back and width was 7 foot. easy cut. put down one sheet made up frame out of battern. battern was attached using the outside trim fixing. ie metal trim runs down sides and another lot underneath. used 1 1/4" screws. then put foil bubble insulation between batterns same as loft insulation fitting. then put second sheet on top. screwed it into batterns. all my over cab floor and walls are attached to this frame. something like 50 screws used to attach walls and floor. followed all original holes in body work. electric screw driver huge bonus. ply i used was bog standard then going to use a yacht vanish wash to soak in and seal ply. as marine ply is not easy to obtain and has to be specially ordered. if using marine ply i could of used 4mm instead of 6mm. as alot stronger but heavier.

chefdave, I don't know if you'll see this, but I am not very good at visualizing by description and I'm trying to understand how your repair came together. So you added a layer of plywood over the floor that was already there, in the same shape? What is the frame you constructed, was that in the side walls? My side walls are okay, it's the floor directly in front and behind the horizontal metal band that pulls the fiberglass up against the floor of the cabover, and some of the wood under the bottom edge of the metal molding that runs all around the edges of the cabover. I'm thinking I can use a sheet of plywood as I think you did (with the long screws to re-attach the molding) but I'm confused as to how I can replace the bad wood under the lower edge of the molding on both sides...does that make sense?

[ModocMade]

Trying multiple threads here: 

I just got 87 Dolphin.  It has major wood rot in the overhead. I'm looking for advice on an idea.  I thought i could replace the side walls with 3/4" wood instead of the foam/wood paneling.  Does anyone thins this would be to heavy for the overhead?  Also Plan on using 3/4" wood sheet  for the bed over cab.