Jump to content

Old Converter Is A Lousy Battery Charger


whyverne14

Recommended Posts

Proving this Forum right again. Which always costs me money.

I can't get a cord to the Dolphin cause it's across the road. So I figured I'd get one of those cheap generators just to charge the battery and run everything while I'm working on it. Coach battery was down to 12.16. Hooked up generator to power cord. Half an hour later battery was up to 12.17. Went down and got my battery charger, hooked it up to battery and generator. Half an hour later, battery was at 12.70. Full charge.

Well I did read it on this Forum. The old converters are trickle chargers. Probably work better to just run the engine for a half hour. Or make some jumpers for the coach battery so that I don't have to slide it out to connect it to the charger. Well the new converter box moves higher up on the priority list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

does the cheap Charlie charger have a 12v out hookup?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Proving this Forum right again. Which always costs me money.

I can't get a cord to the Dolphin cause it's across the road. So I figured I'd get one of those cheap generators just to charge the battery and run everything while I'm working on it. Coach battery was down to 12.16. Hooked up generator to power cord. Half an hour later battery was up to 12.17. Went down and got my battery charger, hooked it up to battery and generator. Half an hour later, battery was at 12.70. Full charge.

Well I did read it on this Forum. The old converters are trickle chargers. Probably work better to just run the engine for a half hour. Or make some jumpers for the coach battery so that I don't have to slide it out to connect it to the charger. Well the new converter box moves higher up on the priority list.

Just about any converter is only going to work at 1/2 or less of it's advertised charge rate when you hook it to a portable AC generator. So if your converter is rated at 15 amps when on grid-power - you'll be lucky to get 5-7 amps when hooked to a portable AC generator.

Most of your cheaper portable generators will not run a cheap battery charger properly. I hate to use a non-technical term like "cheap" but it's the easiest. Most lower-end battery chargers and AC to DC power supplies cannot work properly unless the AC voltage exceeds 150 volts. The so-called "120 volt" current in your peaks to 170 volts. Many if not most portable generators only make 140-150 volts. So when you plug a 20 amp battery charger into such a generator - you'll be lucky to get 5-10 amps out of it. Plug in a 10 amp charger and you might get 2-4 amps. The converters in RVs as well as standard shop-type battery chargers clip the voltage peaks in the 150-170 volt range. When a generator only makes 140-150 volts which is pretty common - you can see why the chargers do not work well. This has been a well known problem for many years in the off-grid solar equipment field. That's why many solar users have built DC generators. Often car alternators hooked to gas engines - to charge batteries. Another fix is to get a more pricey electronic battery charger that will work even with poor-grade AC power. Like a "True Charge 2" from Xantrex. I read a recent test done with a dozen different battery chargers and RV converters hooked to various generators. Most made less then half their rating when hooked to a Honda 3500 watt generator, yet all made 100% when hooked to a 10,000 watt Kohler non-portable generator. One exception to portables are some of the DC to AC inverter generators.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hum I used to get my old diesel tractor started with a little cheap generator and a large battery charger. 120 volts rms devided by .707=169.7 peak volts. If you read 120 volts output the generator is making 170 volt peak voltage. 150 volt peak X .707 the generator output would read 106.5 volts. In order to read peak volts a oscilloscope would have to be involved or just do the math at the output voltage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Proving this Forum right again. Which always costs me money.

I can't get a cord to the Dolphin cause it's across the road. So I figured I'd get one of those cheap generators just to charge the battery and run everything while I'm working on it. Coach battery was down to 12.16. Hooked up generator to power cord. Half an hour later battery was up to 12.17. Went down and got my battery charger, hooked it up to battery and generator. Half an hour later, battery was at 12.70. Full charge.

Well I did read it on this Forum. The old converters are trickle chargers. Probably work better to just run the engine for a half hour. Or make some jumpers for the coach battery so that I don't have to slide it out to connect it to the charger. Well the new converter box moves higher up on the priority list.

Yes the old converter chargers were basically trickle chargers they were some where in the 3 to 6 amp range and poorly regulated. A common modern Toy home charger would be in the 30 to 40 amp range generally 3 stage chargers worth every penny you pay for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope my head doesn't explode. Now the battery is back down to 12.17 according to the after-market gauge the PO installed even though nothing was on all day. I thank you all for the interesting information. I think I'm going to stop worrying about this until I actually run out of power, which I haven't so far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hum I used to get my old diesel tractor started with a little cheap generator and a large battery charger. 120 volts rms devided by .707=169.7 peak volts. If you read 120 volts output the generator is making 170 volt peak voltage. 150 volt peak X .707 the generator output would read 106.5 volts. In order to read peak volts a oscilloscope would have to be involved or just do the math at the output voltage.

Not sure what that means. A 144 cube diesel engine needs around 300 amps @ 9 volts to start at 70 degrees F. So -much depends on how much current the battery in it can supply and how much you have to add. Just 50 amps of boost can do the trick at times. If you had a 100 amp boost-charger and it only put out half of it's rating - the tractor still may of started just fine. Don't know because you give no specifics. Just an anecdote.

Fact remains that just about every RV converter out there that is based on a simple transformer and set of rectifiers (like just about all the older ones are) - can't hardly make half the power it makes on grid-current when plugged into a portable AC generator. A 10 amp charger in an older converter will be lucky to make 1-2 amps when plugged into a small AC generator (not an inverter generator).

I ran a test awhile back on 4 different chargers and 2 different RV converters - hooked to 10 different gen-sets. The results are consistent with what I've mentioned. Many solar equipment sells post results of much more comprehensive tests.

Did it with a Marquette Silver Beauty 60 amp charger/100 amp boost model 8270, Schumacher 12 amp/50 amp boost model SE-1275A, Everstart 6 amp model WM-82-6, Iota DLS-45 charger/converter, Bassler 15 amp RV converter, and a Power Dynamics 30 amp RV converter.

Generators used included a Kohler stationary 10,000 watt, Fairbanks-Morse stationary 17,000 watt. PTO powered 13,000 watt, Homelite 4400 watt HL44, Jetman 1200 watt GG1200, ETQ IN1800 inverter generator, Honda 3500 generator, Subaru Pow'r Guard 3500, Coleman Pulse 1850, and a Honeywell 2000i inverter generator. The two big stationaries, the PTO powered, and the Honeywell inverter unit all worked as well as grid power. The rest cut charge power in half or less. But to my surprise the Coleman 1850 Pulse did much better the all the other portable AC gensets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure what that means. A 144 cube diesel engine needs around 300 amps @ 9 volts to start at 70 degrees F. So -much depends on how much current the battery in it can supply and how much you have to add. Just 50 amps of boost can do the trick at times. If you had a 100 amp boost-charger and it only put out half of it's rating - the tractor still may of started just fine. Don't know because you give no specifics. Just an anecdote.

Fact remains that just about every RV converter out there that is based on a simple transformer and set of rectifiers (like just about all the older ones are) - can't hardly make half the power it makes on grid-current when plugged into a portable AC generator. A 10 amp charger in an older converter will be lucky to make 1-2 amps when plugged into a small AC generator (not an inverter generator).

I ran a test awhile back on 4 different chargers and 2 different RV converters - hooked to 10 different gen-sets. The results are consistent with what I've mentioned. Many solar equipment sells post results of much more comprehensive tests.

Did it with a Marquette Silver Beauty 60 amp charger/100 amp boost model 8270, Schumacher 12 amp/50 amp boost model SE-1275A, Everstart 6 amp model WM-82-6, Iota DLS-45 charger/converter, Bassler 15 amp RV converter, and a Power Dynamics 30 amp RV converter.

Generators used included a Kohler stationary 10,000 watt, Fairbanks-Morse stationary 17,000 watt. PTO powered 13,000 watt, Homelite 4400 watt HL44, Jetman 1200 watt GG1200, ETQ IN1800 inverter generator, Honda 3500 generator, Subaru Pow'r Guard 3500, Coleman Pulse 1850, and a Honeywell 2000i inverter generator. The two big stationaries, the PTO powered, and the Honeywell inverter unit all worked as well as grid power. The rest cut charge power in half or less. But to my surprise the Coleman 1850 Pulse did much better the all the other portable AC gensets.

Are you a wizard? Why do you think Coleman dropped them gensets? I see one on eBay right now. Looks like a deal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you a wizard? Why do you think Coleman dropped them gensets? I see one on eBay right now. Looks like a deal.

Coleman did not exactly "drop" those gensets. Coleman went bankrupt in 2008. So I guess you can say they dropped "everything." Pramac bought the Coleman name and the present Coleman has little to do with the old Coleman. Pramac got it's start in Italy. So now we have Italian Colemans and Italian Chryslers That all being said - some of those older Coleman Pulse generators back from the original Coleman company were pretty rugged. Noisy with those Briggs & Stratton engines, yes. But also made good power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coleman did not exactly "drop" those gensets. Coleman went bankrupt in 2008. So I guess you can say they dropped "everything." Pramac bought the Coleman name and the present Coleman has little to do with the old Coleman. Pramac got it's start in Italy. So now we have Italian Colemans and Italian Chryslers That all being said - some of those older Coleman Pulse generators back from the original Coleman company were pretty rugged. Noisy with those Briggs & Stratton engines, yes. But also made good power.

I didn't know that. Wow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure what that means. A 144 cube diesel engine needs around 300 amps @ 9 volts to start at 70 degrees F. So -much depends on how much current the battery in it can supply and how much you have to add. Just 50 amps of boost can do the trick at times. If you had a 100 amp boost-charger and it only put out half of it's rating - the tractor still may of started just fine. Don't know because you give no specifics. Just an anecdote.

Fact remains that just about every RV converter out there that is based on a simple transformer and set of rectifiers (like just about all the older ones are) - can't hardly make half the power it makes on grid-current when plugged into a portable AC generator. A 10 amp charger in an older converter will be lucky to make 1-2 amps when plugged into a small AC generator (not an inverter generator).

I ran a test awhile back on 4 different chargers and 2 different RV converters - hooked to 10 different gen-sets. The results are consistent with what I've mentioned. Many solar equipment sells post results of much more comprehensive tests.

Did it with a Marquette Silver Beauty 60 amp charger/100 amp boost model 8270, Schumacher 12 amp/50 amp boost model SE-1275A, Everstart 6 amp model WM-82-6, Iota DLS-45 charger/converter, Bassler 15 amp RV converter, and a Power Dynamics 30 amp RV converter.

Generators used included a Kohler stationary 10,000 watt, Fairbanks-Morse stationary 17,000 watt. PTO powered 13,000 watt, Homelite 4400 watt HL44, Jetman 1200 watt GG1200, ETQ IN1800 inverter generator, Honda 3500 generator, Subaru Pow'r Guard 3500, Coleman Pulse 1850, and a Honeywell 2000i inverter generator. The two big stationaries, the PTO powered, and the Honeywell inverter unit all worked as well as grid power. The rest cut charge power in half or less. But to my surprise the Coleman 1850 Pulse did much better the all the other portable AC gensets.

There is no earthly reason it can't transformers are by design in turns ratio x in x out it never changes. It does not matter if you power it with 10 KW or one KW the voltage remains the same particularly with some thing that only puts out 3 or so amps. I live in Maine it gets cold diesels are not real fond of cold, lighting glow plugs and cranking cold engines takes a good bit of current so maybe it only needs 50 amps with a mostly charged battery but that kind of blows a hole in the cheap generator theory it still was able to produce the necessary current with it's meager little 1,500 Chinese watts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no earthly reason it can't transformers are by design in turns ratio x in x out it never changes. It does not matter if you power it with 10 KW or one KW the voltage remains the same particularly with some thing that only puts out 3 or so amps. I live in Maine it gets cold diesels are not real fond of cold, lighting glow plugs and cranking cold engines takes a good bit of current so maybe it only needs 50 amps with a mostly charged battery but that kind of blows a hole in the cheap generator theory it still was able to produce the necessary current with it's meager little 1,500 Chinese watts.

I'm having a hard time figuring what your point is. Obivously you have little experience dealing with this particular issue. Makes me wonder why try to so hard to contradict comments on a subject you have little knowledge of. The issue of battery chargers working poorly when hooked to portable generators is an old and well known problem through-out the industry. That "industry" being the sellers of small generators and the sellers and technicians involved in off-grid solar power. The off-grid differs from grid-tie because the off-grid relies on battery banks, battery chargers, and fuel driven generators during non-sunny times. You have provided zero facts - just anecdotes.

Again - 120 volts house current from the grid peaks at the Hertz Cycles @ 170 volts. Just about every battery charger on the market that is non-electronic (that means just transformer and rectifiers) - clips the Hertz peaks at 150 to 170 volts. Many small generators only peak at 150 volts and thus the problems. Those low peaks have little effect on power tools TVs, etc. Does have a severe effect on battery chargers. I can supply pages and pages of proof written by professionals. This isn't exactly the context for it though. I made a simple statetment. Small portable generators don't work well with common battery chargers. That is well known by those with some experience and is true - no matter how many diesel tractors you've had to start. By the way - I've got four diesel trucks, two diesel bulldozers, three diesel backhoes and one diesel generator set. Dated from 1959 to 1995. So yeah -I have some hands-on knowledge of diesels. Also worked in a diesel pumps shop for a few years.

The reality here is - you don't know what the heck you are talking about on this specific subject. There is a great amount of tech info out there that addresses the problem much more eloquently then me . Obviously you've read none of it. Or - you disagree with the many trouble shooters and electrical engineers who have written this stuff? Also - at least I've taken the time to actually test a number of generators and battery chargers I've worked with - by model number when available. Let's see some of your test results.

This is a part of a service bulletin that addresses the problem of battery chargers not working well from Trace/Xantrex - now owned by Duracell. They used to sell large inverters wtih on-board battery chargers. Those charges used to be simple transformer and rectifier types. They finally stopped making them and now only use fully electronic chargers. I have two of those units A Trace DR2412 with a 70 amp charger. Also a 3624 also with a 70 amp charger. Note that when that 70 amp charger is hooked to a portable generator that makes less then 150 volts peak - it only has an output of 15 amps. Same thing happens with small converters in RVs.

I attached tech info from Xantrex as it relates to the their non-electronic battery chargers included with the DR series of inverter/chargers. I've got hundreds of documents from other companies with the same results.

post-6578-0-45890500-1405340269_thumb.jp

post-6578-0-38569600-1405340270_thumb.jp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All AC generators are sine wave. If the peak voltage is 150 volts the generator output is only 106.5 my cheap loaded generator does a lot better than 106.5 as it has never been below 117 volts. Your chart is very nice and their point is sizing now a cheap generator will not be able to make peak voltage if it is over loaded but driving a small charger will not over load the generator. I know you have a vast amount of knowledge far beyond mortal man and one else has even the slight clue or experience but math does not lie V rms= .707X maximum peak value.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Fred - Formal Logic was my favorite study grad-school. You have just tried to use the very common "false analogy" argument. Look who is "calling the kettle black." There are strict rules to breaking down arguments with formal logic. You do not do it very well.

The fact remains what I said, and how said it . . . is absolutely true. Can't help the few here that cannot comprehend it. Nothing wrong with not knowing something. Casting aspersions to support a weak argument IS wrong in my book.

Not only can I supply text to support what I stated . NOTE I also including results of my own. less scientific testing with specifics. I.e. model numbers, amps involved, etc. None of you guys have presented anything to counter that except for general anecdotal stories with no hard facts. Also note that Mr. Maine AH is incorrect about small AC generators making good sine waves. Some do and some do not. I've had many on scopes. Have you? Many small sets have voltage peaks and at times stepped instead of curved waves. Same goes for many if not most DC to AC inverters - mod wave or so-called "true sine wave."

What baffles me is this. I made a simple general statement about small AC generators often not working well when powering battery chargers. Easily proven. Also relevant to this incipient discussion. Yet a few here - with poor level of knowledge and/or poor understanding insist of trying to knock down my statement with NO facts. Just vague stories and/or allusions. Hey Fred - if you disagree with what I said -why not present some facts to back up your argument? Hey - maybe now that I've once again tried to defend a technical point I've made here - a female moderator will send me a private message and tell me how "mean" I am.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All AC generators are sine wave. If the peak voltage is 150 volts the generator output is only 106.5 my cheap loaded generator does a lot better than 106.5 as it has never been below 117 volts. Your chart is very nice and their point is sizing now a cheap generator will not be able to make peak voltage if it is over loaded but driving a small charger will not over load the generator. I know you have a vast amount of knowledge far beyond mortal man and one else has even the slight clue or experience but math does not lie V rms= .707X maximum peak value.

There are many long documents available of the many tests done on small AC generators and conventional battery chargers. Those lists were compiled by solar users and solar-equipment dealers. The reason being - so when someone wanted to buy a small generator -they'd have some idea of which ones made the best power. Why not add your's to that list if it is, as you say, making a perfect sine wave and perfect grid-like power. As of yet -you've not given any specifics. I DID. How about a make and model # of whatever generator you are speaking of? Also how about some specifics about the make and model of battery charger you say make full rated output when hooked to it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In an attempt to be fair - I don't really know who your are accusing of using false arguments. You did not specify but it's obvious you are accusing someone here of doing it.

Note that with my comments I presented specifics and not unbacked assertions.

You accused someone here of doing this. Since you took the time and trouble of making the accusation - why not go "all the way" and tell us who you are actually referring to? I.e. back up your "argument."

Argument by assertion is the logical fallacy where someone tries to argue a point by merely asserting that it is true, regardless of contradiction. While this may seem stupid, it's actually an easy trap to fall into and is quite common.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fred:

http://www.conservapedia.com/Logical_fallacy

here I fixed it for you, and referenced a legitimate website also. now its credible. :first:

That's funny. Especially the comment in there that reads . . "Logical fallacies are the beloved debating tactic of liberals; for this reason, it is not advised to debate them unless you have to, as you will only end up frustrated when one of them inevitably claims global warming is true because Al Gore said so."

When I studied Philosophy/Formal Logic and had a liberal professor - he used the Dick Nixon "Checkers" speech as an example of how evil conservatives are. Thanks heavens I was 50 years old at that time and did fall for professor's childish nonsense.

Regardless of who says what in other places on the Net. I made a simple general statement here and backed it up with facts and source citations. For a non-technical forum like this - seems that should suffice. But no - allusions and emotional eruptions seem to carry more weight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this tread has about run it's course. So please let's restrict any further posts to something (that hasn't already been said) that answers the original question (IF anyone remembers what it is).

Philosophical discussions are more than welcome in the 'Misc & non-related' Section

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So please let's restrict any further posts to something (that hasn't already been said) that answers the original question (IF anyone remembers what it is).

Original post mentioned slow charge rate using a conventional charger and small generator. Seems this article from Australia is relevant. Long yes. If not interested just don't read. Note the same issue this tech place describes in Australia also happen here.

CHARGING BATTERIES FROM GENERATORS

There is a known problem of battery chargers and, more recently, inverter/chargers, that will not run satisfactorily from motor generators. In some instances the chargers produce far less than their expected output or even none at all. This issue also affects running AC induction motors from generators (and for much the same reasons).

This problem has existed almost since basic battery chargers and AC generators were invented. It is not necessarily related to quality or price. Despite this, the respective vendors tend to claim (a) they have never encountered the problem before; or (B), and sometimes true, that the fault lies with the other’s product. This problem exists and the respective industries are well aware that it exists. If it is denied, the person claiming this is either new to the job, or is denying something known to be true.

There are several possible causes. The most common is that the generator is simply too small for the charger (or that the charger is too big for the generator. This occurs because it is not remotely obvious, to those who do not understand electrics (nor always to those who do), that a 400 watt charger may require a 1000-watt generator. It may well operate with less, but not well.

Conventional Battery Chargers

Typically hardware/autopart store chargers are extremely inefficient (70% is typical). This alone necessitates a generator 30% larger than otherwise required for that alone. But a further issue necessitates the generator to be larger by an extra 30% again.

The alternating current (AC) from the electricity grid, and AC generators, will run things like water heaters, toasters and soldering irons, etc with no problems. A (say) 3000 watt generator will thus drive any such load up to 3000 watts. This is because all such loads are purely ‘resistive’ (for this purpose it is not necessary to know what 'resistive' strictly means).

Conventional battery chargers consist mostly of coils of wire wound around an iron or similar core. These loads are called ‘inductive’ - and behave oddly with alternating current in that the current flowing through them gets out of step with the voltage pushing it.

The effect is called ‘Power Factor’ and is usually expressed as a number between 0 and 1.0. A power factor of less than 1.0 has much the same effect as pushing a kid’s swing before or after the optimum time – in that the same amount of push has less effect on the desired result.

Conventional battery chargers have a power factor between 0.65 and 0.7. Driving them requires a generator that makes extra current available. This extra current is not actually ‘used’ but it must be available - it is sort of ‘shunted to and fro’. Electricity suppliers hate this effect because whilst they have to make the extra current available it does not register on their meters because it is ‘utilised’ but not consumed.

This power too must be available from the generator - so yet another 30% (minimum) must be added to its required size. On top of all this, most low-priced generators can produce their advertised output for more than a few minutes - most are limited to 80% for continual use.

In practice, to drive any conventional charger (i.e. those using big and very heavy transformers) needs a generator of twice the rated capacity of that charger.

Many ‘hardware-store special chargers’ are hugely sensitive to incoming voltage. They may well produce their claimed output when driven from a grid supply, but less than half if driven from a generator in need of attention (or just a lousy generator!).

Generator Big Enough – but the charger still does not perform.

With some generators, adverse power factor can prevent an otherwise adequate-sized generator starting up at all, or developing full power into a battery charger.

A quick and dirty fix (but one that almost always works) used to be to connect a 100-watt incandescent globe across the generator. It’s not light produced that does the job, but simply that the globe, being purely resistive, tricks the generator into working properly. Grid voltage incandescent globes are no longer sold in many countries - but a small soldering iron will do instead.

A better, but costly fix, is to have power factor correcting capacitors added to the input of the battery charger (a licensed electrician will know what this means and probably also why you want to do it). This also overcomes the need for the 30% larger generator needed to overcome the adverse power factor but may cost as much as buying the switch mode type of charger described below.

Switch-mode chargers

Since 2000 or so, apparently similar problems have arisen with some chargers, and also inverter-chargers, that use switch-mode technology (these are much smaller and weigh a fraction of that of conventional transformer-based chargers).

Here, the symptoms tend to be similar, but the cause is usually different.

Switch-mode devices are reasonably efficient (plus 90% is common) and have a more favourable power factor. A 1000 watt generator should be able to run a 650 watt switch-mode charger. But far from all will because switch-mode devices demand 'clean' electricity. And that from cheap generators, and even at least one costly brand, can be very 'dirty' indeed.

What happens technically is this: on each power stroke, a generator speeds up. The speed only varies slightly, but its acceleration (the rate of change of that increase and decrease) is high. On the following compression stroke, it slows again. This rapid and ongoing speeding up and slowing down generates a harmonic series of multiples of 50 Hz – up to 5000 Hz or more. The resultant 'dirty' AC may cause charger protection circuits to cut off the supply.

The cause of the problem is that the flywheel, the inertia of which is intended to mechanically dampen the acceleration and deceleration, is simply too small.

Diesel engines are so prone to this, that their makers have no choice but to use a heavy flywheel. Another fix is a flexible rubber coupling, between the engine and the electrical generating bits, that absorbs the changes in speed. Yet another is a ‘harmonic damper’ on the crankshaft. This is like a rubber coupling combined with a very small flywheel. It was invented by Dr Lanchester around 1905 and used in some cars ever since. But none of the Inverter generators, such as those made by Honda, Yamaha, Robin etc, do not suffer from this, nor do Mastervolt’s or Fischer Panda’s. Most generator vendors will however almost always deny responsibility - often and correctly claiming correctly that their products will drive most electrical loads without problems.

This situation has to change because an ever-increasing proportion of equipment uses switch-mode power supply technology.

In Australia, Power Protection Systems (suppliers of Mastervolt etc) has designed a simple electrical modification (to the Dakar inverter charger. It partially cleans up the dirty AC, and partially tricks the inverter charger into accepting any ‘noise’ that remains. It was designed specifically with Onan’s 3600 petrol generators in mind, but Power Protection Solutions’ Bob Wisniewski says it enables the Dakar charger to work with other generators that exhibit similar problems.

They are a friendly mob and know a lot about stuff like this. The 100-watt globe trick sometimes works with this problem too, but not as reliably.

You can contact Power Protection Systems on 07 3283 7800 (or from outside Australia - on +61 7 3283 7800. Their email is office@powersolutions.com.au.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very cheap generator charging RV batteries

Any specs? Max output rating of charger? Output of same charger when hooked to the generator? Output of same charger when hooked to AC grid power? Battery voltage at time of charger hookup?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"This is because all such loads are purely resistive (for this purpose it is not necessary to know what 'resistive' strictly means). "

"Its not light produced that does the job, but simply that the globe, being purely resistive, tricks the generator into working properly.

Solid state devices that will not properly switch an inductive load has been a problem for a long time. Some industrial controls use a low resistance wirewound resistor as an resistive load so the SCR's switch properly, strange things occur to system performance when the resistor opens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope don't need them, been proven time and time again that it works. The generator does a fine job of charging the batteries despite its perceived down falls. The rms value posted relates to 168.5 volt average peak voltage because it is read as rms (Fluke meters read true rms). The loads are not pure resistive all resistive loads do is to some extent smooth the trash on the sine wave and if you are worried about it plug in a light bulb. Generally larger generators do not have this problem. Now the argument is peak voltage and only 50% efficiency. Cheap generators have a sort of trashy sine wave no doubt about it transformer are not real fond of that but the efficiency deprecation is more like maybe 8% not 50%. Bottom line small cheap generators will charge the batteries just fine might take an hour instead of 57 1/2 minutes. We're not charging huge solar battery banks here just a little MH battery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

. Bottom line small cheap generators will charge the batteries just fine might take an hour instead of 57 1/2 minutes. We're not charging huge solar battery banks here just a little MH battery.

Quite a sweeping statement. If you have comprehensive knowledge of ALL small generators being used by all people - you're way ahead of anybody I know of doing testing.

Note that my statement was NOT specific to just large battery banks. Note also that the tests I included were with just one single 120 AH battery.

Your statement is utterly ridiculous. Note - I never claimed that ALL small generators had problems with all battery chargers. You are the only one here making broad claims. I've already listed one small gen that works well with a few chargers that I gave model #s of. No big surprise if indeed someone else has such a combo too. Proves or negates nothing - except that you might have one example of a combo that works. Can't tell from here unless you provide some specs. You did not.

Sorry Derek. I want to cease due to how ridiculous this conservation has gotten. I presented some facts, test data, and model numbers.. There are a few people on a mission to prove them wrong, yet have provided NONE to back their arguments. As Maine AH has already stated . ."he doesn't have to." It's beyond me why someone who lacks understanding and experience in this matter would work so hard to argue against it - and offer nothing to back up their protestations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...