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Anybody Tried "enviro-Safe" Refrigerant In Their R12 System?


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I've converted most of my vehicles with R12 to 134A. That being said - my 1994 Ford F250 and my 1979 Datsun 280ZX both still have R12 and work great. I just got around to checking the cab AC in my 1988 Mini-Cruiser and to my surprise - it still works. Just a bit low on R12 going by the foam in the sight-glass. So at this point - I kind of hate to convert to 134A. I have no R12. I've heard some people say they like the Enviro-Safe refrigerant. A friend of mine has a supermarket with a cooler that have leaky R12 sytems and that's what he uses. Anybody here tried it? I hate to spend the money on the gas and an adapter so my old R12 manifold set will attach to a can with 134A type threads. Note I don't care what the stuff is made of as long as it works. Can be made from cow farts for all I care.

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Make sure your substitute Freon is for R 12 and NOT R 134. The EnviroSafe stuff I've seen is R 134.

Google Freeze 12, also Real R 12 is all over Ebay for $ 25 or so a can

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My understanding is there is a good supply of R-12 in Canada.

I'm not sure how close to the border you are.

Derek can probably determine if this info is accurate.

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Make sure your substitute Freon is for R 12 and NOT R 134. The EnviroSafe stuff I've seen is R 134.

Google Freeze 12, also Real R 12 is all over Ebay for $ 25 or so a can

The company that makes and sells EnviroSafe sells it in cans with a 134 threaded port but it's intended for use in many systems including R12 systems. To charge an adapter is needed to connect a 134A type can to an R12 charge port.

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My understanding is there is a good supply of R-12 in Canada.

I'm not sure how close to the border you are.

Derek can probably determine if this info is accurate.

There's lots of R12 available where I am. Just not willing to pay $25-$30 a can for it.

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Many names for the R12 replacement (freeze12 etc.). I have used it, it works fine it is a blend but mostly R134 the issue is the oil and all of them claim it is compatible. If the system is empty I believe I would start all over with R134 and an oil change. The R134 systems use PAG oil and the R12 uses mineral oil they don’t play well with each other.

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I've converted many R12 systems to 134A. I've got two cases of the stuff here along with a 30 lb. bottle.. Normally I would of just converted this 1988 Toyota. But since it actually works and is just a little low - I hate to mess with it. Rubber hoses on R12 systems tend to develop leaks when 134A is put in. That is unless they are the new "barrier" hoses which this 1988 does not have. The AC works fine. Just showing foam in the sight-glass so it doesn't need much. The Enviro-Safe stuff is listed as compatible with the oil that's in there. I'm sure there are other replacements as well. Normally I wouldn't try it - but in this case - guess it cannot hurt to try.

134A is on the way out now - from what I've read. Wonder what's going to be next as a retrofit for the 134A systems?

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You are correct, 134 is being phased out & by 2017 Dupont will have their replacement in all production vehicles..This came from an old friend that has been in the service field his entire life. He said that 134 will take a GIANT price leap as R12 has done... It will still be available for the millions that have converted to it or the factory equipped units now on the road, but it will be costly.........may as well bite the bullet & get a couple of cans of R12..Donnie

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If you have the R-12 hoses its a cheap fix to buy R-12. $25-30 dollars and its done. What will you save by going something else. Maybe have to redo the entire system, that will cost.

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where will you buy r12 can't buy any where I live. MY home ac is r22 I was told by a heating cooling outfit they can't get that can only sell used recycled r22 out of old ac units for a very high price

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Both R12 & R22 are all over Ebay.......costly, but available....Donnie

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If you have the R-12 hoses its a cheap fix to buy R-12. $25-30 dollars and its done. What will you save by going something else. Maybe have to redo the entire system, that will cost.

What I'd save with the Enviro-Safe is the price. I can buy it for $4 a can. 8 ounces of it equals 18 ounces of R12 and 16 ounces of 134A.

Only hurdle was having to buy an adapter to convert the can with 134A type threads to an R12 fitting. I have an R12 gauge manifold set - but need an adapter to hook one of these cans to it.

The best deal I could find on R12 was $40 for one 12 ounce can shipped to my door and by doing that - I'm technically breaking the law.

I'd never use this stuff for a total charge. If that was needed - I'd just install a new drier, change the oil, pull a vacuum, install new barrier rubber hoses, and change to 134A. I stocked up on it when it was $3 a can have a lot .

If it works to just top off a slightly low R12 system - I see it as a good deal. And if it doesn't work - I'm not out much. R12 is just too expensive in my opinion to take chances with.

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Yes it is out there but there is "fine print" all sales have to post this warning ebay or other sellers it is federal law. Per eBay rules:To list a refrigerant, you have to include the following information in your description:

  • The buyer has to be EPA-certified.
  • The buyer has to show proof of certification before paying and before the item is shipped.
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I have no license and don't intend to get one (although it's pretty easy to get). I no longer do any AC work for the general public. Just for myself.

I know several R12 sellers including many on Ebay that will sell to anyone IF the person swears he/she is not going to actually use it themselves.

I have no problem breaking laws I do not like. Laws are made my men and some men are jerks - and the laws they make not much better.

Main thing with me is - the expense. Very easy to have a recharge go bad or spring a leak soon after. Very easy to be quickly out a lot of money by sticking with R12.

I've been using 134A on R12 systems for years and done fine with it. But I hate to convert a working R12 system.

Many claimed to have used EnviroSafe to top off R12 systems with good results. True or not - I guess I'm going to find out;

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I have used Freeze 12 (same stuff) it has posed no problems. Selling Freon R12 to a non-certified person is illegal it is just the way it is if they sell it, it is breaking eBay’s rules and Federal laws. I’m sure there are a number of people out there that just don’t care I'm one that happens to care. The plan was years ago to price it out of the market and so far it has worked for the most part.

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In some ways the restrictions put on refrigerants had a reverse effect of what was intended by erudite law makers. Junkyards were no longer accepting junked cars with any charge in the AC system so after the law - many just cut the lines and sent it all into the atmosphere before scrapping. Many NY junkyards (not metal scrappers) were required to have recovery systems but the few owners I know - never used them. They advised people to just "make sure the system was empty" before bringing stuff in. One of the reason why many did not want to mess with recovery is because of all the new exotic "R12" replacements that had been added to systems. In my opinion - absolutely nothing useful was accomplished with the R12 regs. I doubt overall - it was any more harmful than 134A.

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Yes that is true many just cut the lines, that does not make it right. There were also those that saw a market and recycled the R12. One of the main ingredients of R12 is methane it was and still is a ozone depleting gas no methane in 134. During the time R12 was being priced out of the market we found many things in A/C systems including butane and propane until the R134 became common place, that was not right either. It contaminated the recycling systems and ruined what R12 was already in the recycling tanks and put many people in danger. . I also think those that had the for sight to realize that ozone depletion was not a good thing also had the for sight to know there were those would not play by the rules but the risk was worth it to get R12 off the market.

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Making something "the law" does not make something right either. We have always had bad and good laws. That because laws are made by bad, good, dumb and smart people.

If we were serious about protecting the atmosphere -we'd have restrictions on air-travel. That is the #1 destroyer of the earth's upper atmosphere. Yet it goes unchecked. But hey - jet engines also add ozone here and there. So maybe we just need more air travel and more R12 and just say "the heck with it."

For myself - I'll pick and choose which laws I want to obey. Wasn't long ago that in New England - only negros, American Indians, and Portuguese could intermarry and not go outside that circle. The house I live in right now has a deed restriction not allowing negros or pigs on the property. Obviously only the pig part still stands (maybe). I'm not trying to start a racial argument here. Just pointing out how absurd some laws can be. Didn't just happen in the 1700s either. Happens every day.

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Jet aircraft for decades have had catalytic converters they convert O3 to O2 and H2O perhaps they should be removed to provide more ozone to counter the release of R12. Frankly I'll be happy when they close down the coal plants. Old laws are just that, unenforceable old laws that have never been written off. Most laws have a genuine purpose some are better than others. Having worked for a PD for 15 years I kind of try to stay within the laws what ever they happen to be (OK I do tend to speed a bit). I'm not sure what all this has to do with R12 substitute though.

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