Not A Ff Debate, But Need Information

[jerlwe]

I like many others on this forum at one time or another, have purchased a new home. It is an '82 Dolphin with 150k on her odometer! The exclamation point was because it still has the 5 lug, fake duallies and seems to be doing just fine. That being said, I will be strapping about 400lbs to my rear bumper and want to make this baby as strong as I can get her. I will be doing the FF rear end swap and don't mind putting in time to build, adapt, and bleed for this project, but I do need to know what other equipment I will be needing besides the axle itself. I will be using a shop with a large amount of tools at my disposal. My brother is also quite talented with custom fabricating things and I know the owner of a machine shop or two. I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row before I start shooting. Any advice on parts or steps involved would be greatly appreciated. I did many searches but was unable to find what I needed. Thanks for your input!

- Jeff

Edited May 17, 2014 by jerlwe

[fred heath]

I have the 5 lug with "foolies". (fake duel wheels).

As long as your weight is around 4K you should be fine.

I've logged over 30k with mine, and no problems.

I would make it a point to change your rear bearings and seals. I also use 75/140 syn. in the rear axle.

Good luck. Fred

[zero]

I'm pretty sure an 82 has the narrow frame and springs and smaller diameter rear axle tube. So to swap in FF rear - you might have to cut off the spring perches on the rear and reweld them out further. You'll also need new u-bolts and bottom brackets since the later rears are 3 1/8" tube diameter and your's is probably got 2 1/2" tubes. Shock mounting will also need some fabrication. Later axles are set up for staggered shock mounts. If both your shocks are in front of the axle and not staggered - you can weld new stubs to the new bottom brackets if you want (I've done two that way). Or weld new mounts to the truck frame and convert to staggered shock mounts.

[jerlwe]

Thank you Fred, but I plan on biting the bullet and doing the swap.

Thank you for the information jdemarris!

That all seems quite manageable. I checked the shocks and they are not-staggered. How many of these have you converted? Have you welded any mounts to the truck frame or just to the bottom brackets? Are those the biggest obstacles to cross? Does the driveshaft need any modification or does it bolt directly on? Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

-jeff

[zero]

Thank you Fred, but I plan on biting the bullet and doing the swap.

Thank you for the information jdemarris!

That all seems quite manageable. I checked the shocks and they are not-staggered. How many of these have you converted? Have you welded any mounts to the truck frame or just to the bottom brackets? Are those the biggest obstacles to cross? Does the driveshaft need any modification or does it bolt directly on? Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

-jeff

I've done two swaps into older Toyotas. A swap into a newer one with staggered shocks and wide frame would require zero mods.

#1 - I did not weld shock mounts onto the upper frame into either. I could have. But I found it easier to keep the original shock setup (all on one side of the axle front). The original lighter axle has 2 1/2" diameter axle-tubes. The bottom brackets that attach to the U-bolts have a curve to match the axle diameter. So they will not fit the larger FF axle tubes that are 3 1/8" OD. The original brackets are where the original non-staggered shock mounts are. I cut a section off the old brackets with the bottom shock mounts and attached them to a set of later brackets. As far as I know, Toyota never made any newer rear axles with the 3 1/8" tubes without staggered shocks so there are no factory-made brackets available with non-staggered bottom mounts.

#2 - modding the driveshaft depends if your truck has the narrow or wide u-joints. Toyota changed the width sometime in the early 80s. Both mine (a 78 and a 81 as I recall) had the narrow u-joints. I could of adapted the driveshaft end in several ways. One is to just buy a pinion flange adapter available aftermarket. It comes drilled for several driveshaft patterns. I opted NOT to do that. I just took the center-section (Hotchkiss part with ring, pinion and diff) out of the old rear and stuck it into the 1988 full floater. They interchange. I was going to pull the axles out of the full-floater anyway to put in new brakes and grease the bearings. So swapping center-sections was easy.

The original parking brake cables fit the FF rear with no mods. Nice of Toyota to make the cable-housing mounts and the cable ends the same for either.

Other things to consider are - using the rear stabilizer bar that partly mounts on the FF. For that I bolted on brackets where it attaches to the rear frame.

Also the front hubs? If you want one spare tire to fit the back and front - you need the newer 6 lug (X 7.25" circle) to go on the front. They are a bolt-on swap. Wheel bearings, spindle, and adjuster nut are the same with either. Problem is - brakes. For older trucks with coil-spring suspension - the newer bigger brakes will not fit. I found a way to mount the 6 lug hubs with the older 5 lug rotors and small brakes. If your truck has torsion-bar front suspension - the bigger brakes and rotors are a bolt-on swap. I have a few sets laying around.

[zero]

Here a few photos to go along with my BS.

By the way - I use an RV to go places and try to maybe . . relax. The last thing I want to worry about is an axle on a SF rear snapping off. Driving around with near 4000 lbs. on the back of a 3000 lb. max rated SF axle is asking for trouble. Even worse with the poorly off-set fake duallies that put undue stress on the axle-ends. Do any not snap? Sure. It's a crap-shoot. All depends on what kind of risk-taker your are. Same can be said for people who put 2 tons of firewood on the back of their 1/2 ton pickup and brag about getting away with it. Some do and some do not. It not just about use either. I'm sure some axles left the factory with more strength then others. The SF rears in the Toyotas are very similar in durability and design as Ford 1/2 ton rears used in the 60s -90s.

[zero]

A few more . .

[Saltlakecamper]

I swapped in a FF two months ago. I was fortunate enough to find a beat up dolphin for $500, which allowed me to pick and choose what parts worked best. The RV I am rebuilding is an '83 the donor vehicle was an '84. The shock mounts were not the same between them, so I used the '84 u-bolts with the '83 mounting plate, I had to break out the cutting torch and egg the holes out 1/4" to fit the larger u-bolts. The drive shaft flange bolt patterns were also different, again when I replaced the u-joints I swapped them around and it worked great. Those were the biggest obstacles I faced in doing this swap. I have put around 2000 miles on it since.

[jerlwe]

Thank you for all of that information, jdemarris!! That is great, it looks like this project will be more reasonable to pull off than I imagined. A real big thanks for the pics as well. I am on my way to the junkyard to pick up my FF rear end this morning and can't wait to get started on the project. I'll post a pic or two after I get it.

I agree with you, I want to relax and enjoy my trip, not wait for my rear end to blow up. I will be living in my dolphin for 6+ months next year and would like to keep her out of the shop as much as possible.

Thank you as well, Saltlakecamper. I wish I had a donor vehicle to snag parts from, but I will just have to deal with the obstacles as they come.