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I know where there is a dual-wheel full-floating axle for sale for $350. Northern NY. It's in a 1983 Sunrader Toyota. Note that this also has the 6 lug fronts on it so no extra spare tire needed. I don't know what the guy wants for the extra front end parts. I was there to buy doors and a windshield when he gave me that price for the rear a few weeks ago. The Sunrader has 7 of the odd-ball 6 lug X 7.25" bolt-circle X 14" wheels.

I just took apart a 1986 dual-wheel box-truck to get myself a full-floating rear. 1986 dual wheel and 2.4 four cylinder engine. I paid $500 for the truck and dismantled it. I found that the HD 6 lug front hubs fit the standard hubs on ligher trucks. So it looks like all you have to do to convert the front is change the hubs.

I've been studying parts on these full floating axles and matching up with commonly found parts #s if someone needs it. It's not so easy to run down the auto parts store and order parts for a dual wheel Toyota full-floater. The parts are redibly available but the problem is the parts catalogs.

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Just for the record, AFAIK, nobody has ever died as the result of an axle failure. Certainly, at the time of the recall, there was no mention of fatalities in the Recall documentation.

How can any of us know that for a fact? Just in my area of New York State, I've seen many traffic deaths over the years attributed to tire blow-outs, broken axles, along with "undetermined but suspected" mechanical failures,etc. Just last summer a tour bus on the NY Thruway crashed and killed several and it was blamed on a "suspected" tire blowout - which I do not believe. If a bus cannot be handled with a blown tire - what sane person would ever ride in one? I suspect it was a combination of speeding, overloading, and driver error. I also read about a guy getting killed in a little Ford Windstar minivan when his axle broke or fell off. I wonder how hard to handle a 20-something-foot Toyota motorhome is if a rear wheel falls off? Can't say I've experienced it yet but also cannot say I want to. I'm going to assume that if you were doing 55 or less and had some room to weave around - you'd be okay. If in tight traffic and going 70-80 ?? I suspect it would not be too hard to lose control and get killed or crippled.

When it comes to motorhomes - I doubt all crashes even get thoroughly investigated. We had a big Class A Winnebago crash near me on Interstate 88 a while back and the State Police made a statement that "maybe" it was caused by a failed tire or suspension part. That tells me it was not investigated at a high level.

I DO know this. The standard 5 lug rear-end that Toyotas use has a single sealed ball bearing on each end - very similar to what Ford F150 (1/2 ton) pickups use. If it completely fails - it can cause the entire axle to fall out with the wheel still attached to it. The entire rear-axle load-rating is around 3800 lbs. more-or-less. Take that light rating and also the chance of an owner not checking the bearings once in awhile - and it most likely has, and still can lead to disaster. I check all my vehicles with "sealed" bearings every year -since I know they get no outside source of lube. A full floating axle not only has twice the bearings - it is also NOT sealed and can get lube from the gear oil reservoir in the center-housing of the rear-axle assembly. That is a big plus. So is the fact that if the axle even broke off - the wheel could not come off with it. Another plus.

I had the rear wheel and axle fall off my 1965 Ford F150 once. I was only doing around 35 MPH on a back road when it happened but I DID have a load of firewood on the back. I did not get hurt but - it was not fun and if I'd been going faster in traffic - it would of been a disaster. The 5 lug Toyota setup is almost identical to the Ford F150. Each axle only held in by the integrity of a sealed ball bearing and a pressed-on steel collar.

To make things even worse in some Toyota motorhomes is those with 5 lug "1/2 ton" axles with dual wheels. Those add-on dual wheels put uneven stress on the little axles and caused some to actually snap in two .

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How can any of us know that for a fact?

I didn't state it as FACT. I said 'as far as I know' according to the Recall documentation. If you can come up a reference other than what floats around the internet, please post it.

"... 7 crashes with injuries and 93 instances where the rear wheels fell off the rear axle." (pg 41)

I'll also suggest you read the 2nd half of pg 42. I'm too slow on the keyboard to type it all out again.

I am NOT advocating that people DON'T upgrade. Just providing what FACTS I've come across so that people can make an informed decision. I just find that warnings to not even drive it around the block are kind of alarmist. Same with driving with tires that are 7 years plus 1 day old.

YOMV

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/ACM45515/RC-91V060-NN.PDF

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I'm going to assume that if you were doing 55 or less and had some room to weave around - you'd be okay. If in tight traffic and going 70-80 ?? I supect it would not be too hard to lose control and get killed or crippled.

Well, don't think I have to worry about that. This thing couldn't do 80 with a hurricane pushing it. )

However, I am thankful I have the good axle. I would not have bought her otherwise. I just can't wrap my head around the 1 ton rear and the 1/2 ton front, WTH was Toyota thinking when they did that?

I will be changing the hubs to 1 tonners, probably when I get back home to TX. Do you have a parts list for the conversion? I'm assuming there will be hubs, wheels, rotors and calipers, but what else?

Apprently there is a Toyota boneyard in San Antonio, about three hours from where I live. I want to be able to walk in, get what I need, and take it home with me.

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I suspect the 1-Ton axle was probably an off the shelf item from another model in their truck range. The 1.5-Ton Dyna perhaps? The front end took a little longer to develop (Improvise(?) with those huge spacers)?

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I dunno. Mine is an '87, and my understanding is that from '87 on all Toy scalpers were sent out with 1 ton axles. Of course, mine is an '86 chassis with an '87 coach, but I don't think that matters. Also, my Toy is not unique in this regard. Others report the same configuration.

Another thing that leads me to believe that the axle is OEM, is that there are no airbags. I suspect that anyone who had the axle upgrade done would have installed them. It does have spring helpers, so that theory may be shot to hell too, but all indications from the previous owner and what I can see under there is that the axle is original.

Just my opinion, with not much basis in fact, but there it is.

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One of the things one would need to consider with loading on the axle is the huge over hang of the 21 footer beyond the axle further increasing the load as it takes more weight from the front axle and transfers it to the rear kind of like an overloaded trailer on a hitch. And they seem to put a lot of stuff back there too like kitchens or holding tanks and maybe both. The scales don’t lie but you are far better as far as loading with an 18 foot then an 21 so if it comes in under the mark it’s doable would a 1 ton rear be better yeah, I would love one under my new Tacoma so I could haul a yard of dirt. I don’t think there was much if any difference in the ½ ton axles when they went to 6 lug about the only thing you would gain is wheel diameter. The real issue with the small axles was the fact the flange broke off and you lost not only the wheel(s) but the brake drum too.

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I suspect the 1-Ton axle was probably an off the shelf item from another model in their truck range. The 1.5-Ton Dyna perhaps? The front end took a little longer to develop (Improvise(?) with those huge spacers)?

The full-floating rear axle was an option on certain Toyota Land Cruisers. Maybe some other things also.

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I don’t think there was much if any difference in the ½ ton axles when they went to 6 lug about the only thing you would gain is wheel diameter.

There were tweaks along the way with beefier parts inside the ring-and-pinion area of the axles. Also the OD of the tube was increased over the years from 2 1/2" up to 3 1/8". But the actual load-carrying capacity was never changed as far as I can tell. Splined axle diameters and the single sealed ball-bearing on each side remained the same over the years. The only big jump in actual load capacity was the full-floater with dual lubed bearings on each side and no weight bearing on the axles.

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I am NOT advocating that people DON'T upgrade. Just providing what FACTS I've come across so that people can make an informed decision. I just find that warnings to not even drive it around the block are kind of alarmist. Same with driving with tires that are 7 years plus 1 day old.

YOMV

I mostly agree. When it comes to tires I go by their appearance and not their DOT stamped age. My snow plow truck has tires on it that are 18 years old and still fine. To the converse - I've got tires on my Subaru that are only four years old and already showing signs of dry-rot cracks. Much depends on the rubber compound that is used. I would not knowingly drive any motor vehicle that would lose control from a tire failure since there is no 100% way to avoid it. The entire Ford Explorer Firestone tire thing was silly as I see it.

With Toyotas and the lighter rears with load-bearing wheel-axles? If I had one that I knew was grossly overloaded AND it had the "fake" duallys on it - I would NOT drive it anywhere. You can somewhat predict a failure from a wheel bearing going bad but you're not going to predict an axle snapping off from any observable "symptoms of distress." There are Toyota 18 foots around I would not be too worried about - especially if single -wheeled. But the fake duallies? Not for me. That is one experiment I don't want to make.

I suspect many failures in Toyota motorhomes are from neglected axles. I can't imagine owning any vehicle - car or truck -with non-lubed wheel bearings and not checking every year. Considering the wind-noise a motorhome makes - it's not always easy to hear a bearing going bad. Very easy to just jack it up in the air and feel it to make sure it' not lose and feels smooth when turning it. New wheel bearings only cost $15 each and are a cheap investment.

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Yep... DEATH axle.

Saying there is no documented evidence that it resulted in a death is akin saying there is no documentation that someone dies from smoking Marlboro brand of cigarettes... Many times deaths, and their circumstances are locked in tort and sealed post legal settlements. I would bet there have been death(s) personally based on the recall severity level.

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OK, can you Google me one Toyota motorhome accident report that resulted in a death? Whatever the reason given for the accident?

Again, I am NOT advocating going on a 12000 mile road-trip.

P.S. I'll bet you a nickel. (I'm not a betting man usually, so that's HUGE!) :)

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you are asking me to resolve the bet by Googling...which skips over the premise of my following sentence which clearly stated that in death cases the results are often classified and sealed by the court (this often happens in the USA). I would have to scour microfiche of local obituaries and newspapers world wide to get my nickel.

so... is this a Canadian nickel because that's worth more... ;-)

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OK, can you Google me one Toyota motorhome accident report that resulted in a death? Whatever the reason given for the accident?

Again, I am NOT advocating going on a 12000 mile road-trip.

P.S. I'll bet you a nickel. (I'm not a betting man usually, so that's HUGE!) :)

Well my friends sons teacher from Soquel Ca just died last summer in a Dolphin but it was a headon collision when another truck drifted into their lane. had nothing to do with the axle. I will say the 2 other passengers not only survived but were not seriously injured which is quite an accomplishment if you look at the wreckage. Total destruction. I didn't save the pics but BAD. As far as the death axle I see so many old beat up not maintained fake duallies rv's out there I have to question it. I met one guy, hobo type, who proudly claimed he had flipped the odometer twice which meant the rig had almost 300,000 miles on it. I believe him too. Sure looked like it, axle still intact.

Linda S

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Well my friends sons teacher from Soquel Ca just died last summer in a Dolphin but it was a headon collision when another truck drifted into their lane. had nothing to do with the axle. I will say the 2 other passengers not only survived but were not seriously injured which is quite an accomplishment if you look at the wreckage. Total destruction. I didn't save the pics but BAD. As far as the death axle I see so many old beat up not maintained fake duallies rv's out there I have to question it. I met one guy, hobo type, who proudly claimed he had flipped the odometer twice which meant the rig had almost 300,000 miles on it. I believe him too. Sure looked like it, axle still intact.

Linda S

Any chance that he weighed his rig? was he the only occupant?

good point on that wreck that happend; there wasnt much left of the vehicle at all; I wonder how many axle wrecks that happened that the results werent recorded because the wreckage was so scattered like at the base of a huge mountain pass etc...

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In the Recall documentation dated May13, 1991 (yes, over 20 years ago) US Dept of Transportation letter:

"... there were 406 reports of failures, 7 crashes with injuries, 98 instances of the wheels falling off..."

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

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Ya, I think I'd rather have the peace of mind knowing that the Full-floater was under mine...even though it is an 18fter...still on the hunt for a donor truck/rv (might as well do the front hub-swap too) near Northwest AR. (unfortunately, the Nashville one is a goner).

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7 crashes with injuries... I wonder if any of the resulting injuries lead to or complicated death later on... I may earn a nickel...

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I owe Linda a nickel, even though the bet wasn't with her. Canadian or US (not wooden) when we meet. If she wants it sooner, she'll have to mail me a stamped, addressed envelope.

"... classified and sealed by the court ...". Do they happen to keep them on a grassy knoll?

" I would have to scour microfiche of local obituaries and newspapers world wide ..." I didn't say find them all. I said 1.

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I check all my vehicles with "sealed" bearings every year -since I know they get no outside source of lube. A full floating axle not only has twice the bearings - it is also NOT sealed and can get lube from the gear oil reservoir in the center-housing of the rear-axle assembly. That is a big plus.

This is not entirely correct. The Full Floating Axle, commonly called the 1-ton axle used by our later model Toyota MH has an oil seal on the axle (to keep differential fluid from entering the wheel hub) and the two wheel bearings are lubricated with grease. Differential lube can enter the hub if the shaft seal fails but this is not what Toyota intended for bearing lubrication. If the shaft seal continues to leak, fluid can eventually enter the brake drum and negatively affect braking.

http://personal.utul...xle/34reara.pdf

Scroll down to page SA127.

Edited by shim 'n bucket

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7 crashes with injuries... I wonder if any of the resulting injuries lead to or complicated death later on... I may earn a nickel...

"I wonder if ..."? Sorry, but that doesn't win bets North of the Border. :)

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yes the Toyota one ton six lug has grease packed bearings . you will find with Toyota much depends on the month of manufacture my Dolphin in the pict is cab and chassis dated march 1986 the camper is dated Sept 1987 it is a full 6 lug front and rear. Toyota was always good about same parts several different models even years. but if you have a 1986 motorhome it could in fact be on a 1985 chassis. also common on the titles in wash state at least manufacture date November 87 on paper called 1988

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This is not entirely correct. The Full Floating Axle, commonly called the 1-ton axle used by our later model Toyota MH has an oil seal on the axle (to keep differential fluid from entering the wheel hub) and the two wheel bearings are lubricated with grease. Differential lube can enter the hub if the shaft seal fails but this is not what Toyota intended for bearing lubrication. If the shaft seal continues to leak, fluid can eventually enter the brake drum and negatively affect braking.

I understand what you are saying but I've got one apart right now. Brakes are dry (i.e. no oil contamination). Bearings have original grease and also some residual gear oil from the center section. I only find one oil seal and that seal is on the inside the bearing-hub. It seals the hub to the stationary stub sticking out. I have found nothing that actually seals the OD of the splined axle so oil from the center-section is blocked from entering the hub assembly. The hub that holds the two bearing cones and cups has the seal on the inside (on the stub) and the axle-flange end gasket on the outside that seals the hub-assembly and keeps oil or grease from leaking out. Maybe there is something that's been modified or removed from this axle but like I said - I find nothing actually sealing the splined axle. Just the hub on the stub. Where is this 2nd seal in the diagram? This Toyota dually axle is setup very much like a Dana 60 or 70 in an American full size full-floater. The hub seal that does NOT seal the axle shaft OD is National # 226285 or SKF # 24635. 3.35" OD and 2.4" ID where it seals on the hub-stub.

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all two wheel drive Toyota trucks were originally five lug. only the 4 whee ldrive and the true one ton full floating rear axle were six lug and they are NOT the same set up

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This is not entirely correct. The Full Floating Axle, commonly called the 1-ton axle used by our later model Toyota MH has an oil seal on the axle .

Where is the seal that actually rides on the axle and not the stationary stub? I can't find it.

1-3.jpg

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