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Hello everybody,

its been a while since i posted anything on the site since my images where not being uploaded but long story short i formated my p,c and the images should work now.I recently purchased a totaled 87 sunrader with 6 lug rear full floating axle with airbags for $500. i jumped on the deal and drove it home even though the front end was a mess(driver fell sleep at the wheel). we replaced the rear axle ontop my 82 and it drives fine the shocks had to be mounted differently since it would not fit right and the brackets were altered aswell. it drives fine from what i can see and with airbags its much smoother. my only concern is the 87 e-brake cable seems to be much longer then the original 82 1/2 ton axle and it feel even though i have tightened the cable to its max its not getting tension when i pull on the ebrake and i feel its only partially engaging the brakes if at all. other then this it feels fine but i would like to know from anyone that has done this swap before to tell me what to look for and if theres anything else i can do to make the ebake cable get tension i did mount all the brackets for the cable not sure what else im missing ...ill upload photos as soon as i can..thank you all.

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Congratulations on scoring the deal with the 87! What are you doing to do with it?

My donor Sunrader was the 21'er and my keeper is a shorty so I had to shorten the parking cable. It's been a while since I did that but I'm pretty sure I just cut the long cable to the proper length and used a thimble with ferrules and stops that I bought from Home Depot. If you don't have enough extra cable length to work with, then perhaps you could cut the cable a lot shorter and then just "scab" a new piece of cable on to the old cable by crimping them together with ferrules and stops. It sounds kinda funky and rube goldbergish, but crimping those cables together with ferrules is never going to come apart, and besides, it's just a parking brake anyway.

These aren't necessarily the correct sizes but at least you'll know what I used for the job...

Thimble: http://tinyurl.com/kazlnoq

Ferrules and Stops: http://tinyurl.com/jvuucvl

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Hello everybody,

i would like to know from anyone that has done this swap before to tell me what to look for and if theres anything else i can do to make the ebake cable get tension i did mount all the brackets for the cable not sure what else im missing ...ill upload photos as soon as i can..thank you all.

Yes, I done the swap three times into a 1978, 1982, and 1984. With all three - I retained the original parking-brake cables that had been previsously attached to the OEM semi-floater rear and all fit fine. Why don't you just do that?

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thank you Jdemaris and stevo for replying to my message.

I thought the ebrake cables are attached to the axle? i looked underneath and cant really tell where i could remove them.I would prefer to use the original cables as suppose to tampering with the original and slap the longer cable with the 5 lug axle back onto the wrecked 87. Jdemaris if you may can you help me by guiding me where exactly i need to look for by removing the ebrake cable.The 87 also has 6 lug fronts and i want to do the swap as well but this is tricky since i dont know what exactly should i swap over or not. can i just use the rotors and brakes? they look much bigger. and this will also just make me need one 6 lug spare tire if i do this swap. both sunraders are 18ft. thank you again for those taking the time to reply .

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the driver was a diabetic. he fell asleep at the wheel and was hitting both sides of the guard rail the doors are bent in from the long side mirrors the front end is gone and fiberglass damage all around from guard rails when i get to it ill post some pics its not worth it, although id have loved to save it, believe me id prefer the 87 over my 82 but its not worth the repairs, the owner just wanted it gone it was rotting in his driveway.

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Someone might be interested in the shell to put on a newer truck. Your in California right. easiest place to sell Sunrader parts. Now that I think of it parts are good. If you can't find anyone who wants the whole shell the windows, inside roof beam all good stuff. Did the front wrap around windows live. just those could sell for 2 or 300 bucks. New ones are 300 bucks each

Linda S

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Someone might be interested in the shell to put on a newer truck. Your in California right. easiest place to sell Sunrader parts. Now that I think of it parts are good. If you can't find anyone who wants the whole shell the windows, inside roof beam all good stuff. Did the front wrap around windows live. just those could sell for 2 or 300 bucks. New ones are 300 bucks each

Linda S

x2, I will take the roof beam pls, if you decide to sell it. :-)

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If you're not in a hurry, that is so true about selling Sunrader parts in California. Put an ad in Craigslist with lots of photos and just keep renewing it. I probably paid for my keeper Sunrader from the parts I sold off of it and the donor.

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  • 3 months later...

Another person looking to find a 1 ton rear axle. I'm in Vancouver, BC and I just purchased an 82 sunrader with the original half ton rear end. Does anyone have a line on where I might be able to track down a rear end in BC or Washington state? Also, if anyone has used a mechanic in the area to do the swap with good results and a decent price, I'd love to know about it.

Thanks

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4.56 to 1 works the best if you want some use out of your overdrive. Toyota did not make any dually trucks (as used for RVs) with it. Most are 4.10 to 1 and a few are 4.30 to 1. In 1988, cab & chassis trucks came with 3.90 to 1 if manual trans and 4.10 to 1 if auto. If you like whatever you have now, the center-section from the semi-floating rear is a bolt-in swap into the full-floating dually.

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  • 3 months later...

I was just crawling the Marlin site and noticed they have Yukon chrome-moly rear axles with a lifetime warranty against breakage. they only have em for '86 and up axles, and not cheap @ $153/each, but cheaper than being stranded if your axleshaft breaks, and a whole lot cheaper than wrecking your rig. has anyone ever tried these?

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I was just crawling the Marlin site and noticed they have Yukon chrome-moly rear axles with a lifetime warranty against breakage. they only have em for '86 and up axles, and not cheap @ $153/each, but cheaper than being stranded if your axleshaft breaks, and a whole lot cheaper than wrecking your rig. has anyone ever tried these?

An 86 or newer Toyota motorhome would already have the full float axle so no upgrading is needed

Linda S

Well unless it happens to be one of the very rare 4x4 motorhomes. Many 4x4 owners have upgraded to a full float but these stronger axles might be an option on the Odyssey 4x4's which came with single wheels in the back

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My girlfriend and I just purchased a 1978 Toyota Sand-Pak. It comes in at a whopping 16ft. We are the second owners and it has 47,000 original miles. It was used by the original owner to go deer hunting. We are planning to live out of it full-time with our 4 year old son. The beauty has the original 5-lug duelly rear axle, and I was wanting to get more information on whether I should do the swap or not. We live in Lincoln, Nebraska, and I found a rear axle for $750 that has no wheels. Is it worth the extra cost to replace the axle and the wheels+tires? Or is the fact that we have a 16 footer make it OK for travel?

Edited by Eartha's Travels
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If the problem is the foolies, would I be safe to do a single wheel rear axle assembly?

Possibly. There were single wheel rv's made by Dolphin that weren't recalled. Important to weigh your rig and make sure the tires can hold that weight with only one tire on a side. I would also have the bearings replaced to make sure they haven't already sustained some damage. Ya got your kid in that rig. Safety is very important.

Linda S

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My girlfriend and I just purchased a 1978 Toyota Sand-Pak. It comes in at a whopping 16ft. We are the second owners and it has 47,000 original miles. It was used by the original owner to go deer hunting. We are planning to live out of it full-time with our 4 year old son. The beauty has the original 5-lug duelly rear axle, and I was wanting to get more information on whether I should do the swap or not. We live in Lincoln, Nebraska, and I found a rear axle for $750 that has no wheels. Is it worth the extra cost to replace the axle and the wheels+tires? Or is the fact that we have a 16 footer make it OK for travel?

The weight of a 16 footer is not an issue. Just a matter IF it has dual-wheel conversion kit on the back. It's the excessive offset of the add-on kits that puts the dangerous stress on the rear axles, not the weight. If you have - or convert to single rear wheels - it will be fine. Just make sure the rear axle is in good shape as it needs to be when used even in a light mini-truck with no camper attached. If you want a deal on two brand new wheel bearings for your rear-axle, let me know. I'm sorting through some of my surplus new parts. They cost $35-$75 each depending on where you buy. If you want mine -$15 each plus whatever actual shipping is.

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The weight of a 16 footer is not an issue. Just a matter IF it has dual-wheel conversion kit on the back. It's the excessive offset of the add-on kits that puts the dangerous stress on the rear axles, not the weight. If you have - or convert to single rear wheels - it will be fine. Just make sure the rear axle is in good shape as it needs to be when used even in a light mini-truck with no camper attached. If you want a deal on two brand new wheel bearings for your rear-axle, let me know. I'm sorting through some of my surplus new parts. They cost $35-$75 each depending on where you buy. If you want mine -$15 each plus whatever actual shipping is.

Actually, it is an issue.

Due to the limited wheel well clearance, the single wheels (tires) have to be able to carry the weight of what used to be carried by duel wheels.

Anything over 4K needs an "E" rated tire to be safe. The problem I encountered is the smallest "E" rated tire I could find was 29" in diameter. Too large for my rig.

I'm using European van tires (load range D) and I'm at the upper end of the weight requirements.

Weight does make a difference with single wheels.

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Actually, it is an issue.

Due to the limited wheel well clearance, the single wheels (tires) have to be able to carry the weight of what used to be carried by duel wheels.

Anything over 4K needs an "E" rated tire to be safe. The problem I encountered is the smallest "E" rated tire I could find was 29" in diameter. Too large for my rig.

I'm using European van tires (load range D) and I'm at the upper end of the weight requirements.

Weight does make a difference with single wheels.

You lost me. I don't see it as an issue at all. Single rear wheel Toyota trucks with 14" tires are used over-seas with 6000 GVWR. The 1978 Toyota RV calls for tires with a 25-26" diameter. A pair of 185R-14" tires @ 65 PSI have a total weight capacity of 3,748 lbs. That is way more then is ever supposed to be on the back axle. Add the back two with the two in front and there is a total weight capacity of 7,496 lbs. That is WAY over the GVWR of that RV. You see that as a problem??? Note I'm talking about D rated tires. When new - Toyota only put C rated tires on the HD truck & chassis rigs and they still had way more weight capacity then needed.

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You lost me. I don't see it as an issue at all. Single rear wheel Toyota trucks with 14" tires are used over-seas with 6000 GVWR. The 1978 Toyota RV calls for tires with a 25-26" diameter. A pair of 185R-14" tires @ 65 PSI have a total weight capacity of 3,748 lbs. That is way more then is ever supposed to be on the back axle. Add the back two with the two in front and there is a total weight capacity of 7,496 lbs. That is WAY over the GVWR of that RV. You see that as a problem??? Note I'm talking about D rated tires. When new - Toyota only put C rated tires on the HD truck & chassis rigs and they still had way more weight capacity then needed.

Your talking research and reference.

I'm talking real world, been there, done that.

My rig has a total weight of 4200#'s.

The rear tires still "squat" with 70#'s of pressure in them.

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I'm talking real world, backed up by reference material. Radial tires all squat. That is what they are supposed to do. All have a pre-engineered "loaded radius" and profile.

If what you were saying indicated a real problem -rigs like Winnebago Lesharos or Phasars or Centuri tires would have awful problems. They too have single rear 14" tires and do fine. Those RVs had their problems - but inadequate tires is not one of them. I drove one for awhile and the owner before me logged 80,000 miles with it and NO tire issues. And not a LeSharo is rated for over 2000 lbs. more GVWR that a 1978 Toyota RV and the Lesharo uses single 14" tires in back with a 26" diameter.

The companies that put dual wheel kits on the back of 70s-80s Toyota RVs did not do it to increase weight capacity. They did it to get more stability. Some put on dually kits, and some just used single super-wide Daytona style L60-14" tires that has 10" -11" width of tread. I make that statement based on interviews with people who were designing them at the time.

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I'm talking real world, backed up by reference material. Radial tires all squat. That is what they are supposed to do. All have a pre-engineered "loaded radius" and profile.

If what you were saying indicated a real problem -rigs like Winnebago Lesharos or Phasars or Centuri tires would have awful problems. They too have single rear 14" tires and do fine. Those RVs had their problems - but inadequate tires is not one of them. I drove one for awhile and the owner before me logged 80,000 miles with it and NO tire issues. And not a LeSharo is rated for over 2000 lbs. more GVWR that a 1978 Toyota RV and the Lesharo uses single 14" tires in back with a 26" diameter.

The companies that put dual wheel kits on the back of 70s-80s Toyota RVs did not do it to increase weight capacity. They did it to get more stability. Some put on dually kits, and some just used single super-wide Daytona style L60-14" tires that has 10" -11" width of tread. I make that statement based on interviews with people who were designing them at the time.

You win JD. (as always).

Not worth my effort to debate.

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Trying to reduce my comments to something silly - is silly in itself. I posted well known, easily verified facts. If you disagree - post a fact that supports your disagreement. The plain fact is - any 1978 Toyota motorhome has a GVWR from Toyota of 4650 lbs. maximum. The rear axle has a max weight load rating of 2905 lbs. That is 1452 lbs. per side MAX allowed by Toyota on the rear axle. Plenty of 14" tires with 25-26" diameter that do that job. Even after year 2000, in Europe, Africa, etc. - Toyota trucks were still using single 14" tires in back with GVWRs that are 2000 lbs higher then a 1978 Toyota sold in the USA. E.g., a 2004 Toyota cab & chassis truck in Australia uses single 195R-14C tires in back and has a rear axle max rating of 3311 lbs. Just a little higher then in a 1978 USA Toyota truck.

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Thanks for all the information JD! It is very helpful and informative and I really appreciate it.

I went and got my rig weighed today and these were the results:

Steer axle 160 lb

Drive axle: 4260

Gross Weight: 4420

With that information and what I'am gathering with the above comments the 1 ton axle (single tires) would be sufficient? I would just need to find a pair 185R-14" tires? I have found a couple of full ton rear axles I just want to make sure I am buying the right thing before spending money on something I can't use.

Also, if I do the swap would I have to make other modifications to make the rearend fit? Or would it be an easy switch out?

And about those bearings....I am interested in buying the from you.

Edited by Eartha's Travels
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Someone made a mistake. There is no way your front axle weight is 160lbs. Your engine is up front and that alone weighs at least 350. I'm betting front is closer to 1500 which would make the rear just under 3000. Try again somewhere else to get a real figure. Think about it. You might try and let a 160 lb man stand on your chest but no way your going to let me park there.

Linda S

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Thanks for all the information JD! It is very helpful and informative and I really appreciate it.

I went and got my rig weighed today and these were the results:

Steer axle 160 lb

Drive axle: 4260

Gross Weight: 4420

With that information and what I'am gathering with the above comments the 1 ton axle (single tires) would be sufficient? I would just need to find a pair 185R-14" tires? I have found a couple of full ton rear axles I just want to make sure I am buying the right thing before spending money on something I can't use.

Something is WAY off with those figures.

19978-1979 Sand-Pak when new had a "wet weight" of 4170 lbs. That means with all tanks full but no passengers or cargo. An extra 430 lbs. was allowed for the latter. At that wet-weight of 4170 lbs. - 1380 lbs. was on the front axle and 2790 lbs. on the rear axle. Most 16-17 foot Toyota RVs have approx. 37% of the weight on the front axle and 63% on the rear.

It came with single 7.50-14" tires, front and back with a 6 ply rating. 26.8" unloaded diameter - and when loaded with proper PSI, a 12.2" loaded-radius due to tire-squat that is supposed to happen. These tires were rated up to 1700 lbs. each which comes to 3400 lbs. in the rear and exceeding the max rating of the rear-axle that is 2900 lbs.

A popular US tire used for Toyota, Nissan, and VW campers is the 185R-14". Toyota used 6 ply rated versions and Nissan used 8 ply rated versions. (C or D ranges). As I recall, the 185R-14" is actually a 185R/82-14" tire. It has an unloaded diameter of 25.6". It has a loaded-radius of 11.4" due to tire-squat that is supposed to happen when proper inflation is used. These tires can be bought many places in the US in C or D ranges.

On the subject of a different rear-axle - what are you calling a "1 ton" rear axle? The term is kind of useless. The 1 ton Toyota pickup trucks have rear axles with the same wheel bearings and same weight capacity as you have in your 1978 or 1979 Sand-Pak. Your original rear-axle has an actual weight-bearing capacity of around 3200 lbs. (1.6 tons). But a so-called "1 ton truck" is supposed to be able to carry 1 ton of extra cargo. Your truck originally was called a 3/4 ton when it came in the cab & chassis version. The full-floating rears used in larger and newer Toyota RVs have actual axle ratings up around 5000 lbs. They are used in some 26 passenger school buses.

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I guess the main thing I am looking for is some key terminology to be using in my search. What type of axle should I be looking for? If it is a dually what should i be looking for? If it is a single wheel axle what should I be looking for? What is the difference between a dually rear end and one that only uses one set of wheels? To be honest, I am completely overwhelmed and don't even know where to start. Advice?

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The key term is "semi-floating" versus "full-floating" rear-axle assembly. Each assembly has two axles - one on each side. Semi-floating means that the axles not only drive the wheels - they also support the load. With a full-floating axle - the axles ONLY drive the wheels and carry NO weight. Toyota mini-trucks sold as pickup trucks all came with semi-floating rear-axles. Even the "1 ton" trucks. Toyotas sold as HD cab & chassis units are what was used by RV makers (for the most part). Around 1986 - for just the cab & chassis HD units - Toyota started using full-floating rears that were previously used in Japanese school buses. These are easy to ID because they use an odd-ball wheel with 6 lugs and a 7.25" bolt-circle. NOT to be confused with 4WD mini pickups that also use 6 lug wheels but with a different bolt-circle.

Your rear axle assembly with 5 lug wheels is semi-floating is rated at around 3200 lbs. for continuous use. Toyota derates it down to 2900 lbs. due to other factors like brakes, springs. spring perches,etc. For short-term loads that rear-axle can probably handle 4000 lbs. with no damage. I've seen people do it and nothing broke or bent. I'm sure if it was done too much parts would wear out prematurely.

I love over-building and with most things - work on the principal that "bigger is better." That's the beauty of Toyota RVs and/or just the mini-trucks themselves. They do the job with great longevity and no over-building.

I don't know of anybody having any premature wear or axle failure problems with Toyota RVs in the size of your Sand-Pak. If you want to over-build and stick in a rear axle that is twice as heavy as you need - you want a full-floating rear-axle assembly. If you put one in, you will no longer have one spare tire that fits front and back.

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In model-year 1986, the full-floating rear-axle assemblies were pretty-much standard equipment in Toyota motorhomes and in most Toyota cab & chassis trucks. But many older 20-21 foot Toyota motorhomes later got retro-fitted with the full-floating axle-assemblies with a little help from Toyota. So you can find a 20-21 foot Toyota motorhome made well before 1986 with a full-floater if it was upgraded. Easiest way to get a positive ID over the phone is the type of wheels used. Nothing else in the USA uses a 14" one-piece wheel with 6 lugs and the 7.25" bolt pattern. So if the rear uses those wheels - it has to be correct. The only 14" wheel that is remotely close is what was used on Datsun/Nissan motorhomes a few years earlier then Toyota. Those rears are also full-floating and 6 lug but use a different bolt-circle at 6 11/16". The 4WD Toyota truck wheels are also 6 lug but they have a 5 1/2" bolt-circle.

Note -because the wheels are scarce - if you buy a full-floating rear-axle, make sure you get five wheels to go with it. Not always easy to find, or cheap.

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