What are the main differences between the various models?

[oboeterry]

Hi,

I am currently full-timing in a Roadtrek Independent 190 and I have (very unfortunately!) sunk over $20K (!) into it over the past two years that I've had it and its still got a lot to go :-/

I have really likes the Toyota mini-rv's I've seen around and have read up a bit, but I am confused as to all the different models (Sunrader, Dolphin, Nova ?, Americana, etc). Since I full-time, I'd also appreciate any advice on if these can be parked on streets at all, V6 vs 22(?), maximum speeds, mileage, etc... Thanks sooo much!

Terry

[linda s]

Well you own a Roadtrek. I assume you have seen the Pleasure way and Coachman and other vans like yours. Same differences in a Toyhome. Older ones have a 4 cylinder and 89 and newer to my knowledge all have a v6. Their are a few little models. Winnibago warrior 19ft. A Dolphin 20ft. and the Sunrader 18ft ones. Most are 21 to 22 feet and a few are 23. Not as stealthy as a van. It's obvious you are in an RV instead of a van conversion, which yours can be mistaken for. Top speed for most is 70 but mileage much improves slowing down. Mileage is around 15 mpg for most. Really too general of a question. You need to narrow down what your interested in and then ask. Go find some near you for sale and test drive them. That will tell you more than I can.

Linda S

[oboeterry]

Thanks for the reply You did actually help with the models (how long they are); is there anyplace to find the floor plans for the various models? And where do people who full-time in Toys park when they're in cities? Thanks so much!

[linda s]

I had a friend who lived in a 18ft Sunrader for about 10 years in Los Angeles to save money to retire early. He just moved around a lot and learned where he wouldn't get bothered. Here's is a link to some manufacturers brochures with floor plans. This is from the toyota-camper group on yahoo and I think you'll have to join to see it.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-campers/files/Coach%20Manufacturer%27s%20Information/Owners%20Manuals%20and%20Brochures%2C%20Etc./

Linda S

[Odyssey 4x4]

If you start looking around at all the different models made you'll start to get an idea at all the different commonly used floor layouts (bathroom in rear or front, kitchen location, table location, etc.) Like Linda said, the earlier models are the toyota 22r and 22re engine (I believe the 22r is carbed and the 22re is fuel injected). They're small enough to fit into pretty much any parking spot, yet obviously they are an RV so someone will know you're in it most likely. Most walmarts allow free overnight stays, same with a lot of truck stops and some casinos. National forests are also free to stay at for up to I believe 21 days? I shopped around for a couple months before I finally purchased mine. Something to keep in mind when looking, the older models had a bad axle setup from too much weight from factory, be sure to purchase only the ones with the newer 1 ton axle. This 1 ton full floater axle is the correct type to support the already overweight camper.

This axle setup you want looks like this on the rear tire.

The non 1 ton axles had catastrophic failure on the early models and there is a recall on them but some have still not been fixed!

Also another thing to consider is the v6 models had a problem with the head gaskets from the factory and most have been fixed with a recall but some have not. So if you're considering a 3.0 model make sure it has had the head gasket issue taken care of.

[86rader]

Differnt models have different advantages/disadvantages.

The sunrader with its fiberglass clamshell construction is very weather tight. Not much in the way of exterior seam issues, but, they are a little cozy on the inside. If you are more than about 5'10" this could be an issue. I used to have one and I had to slouch a bit to keep from rubbing on the ceiling. I am 6 ft.

I now have an Odyssey. it is cavernous, next to the sunrader. More headroom, maybe 6'2" or 3". The cabover bunk has more room as well. But, it does have those damned seams that like to leak now and then. Keeping up on them is a little work, but, not impossible.

As for layouts, My Sunrader was a rear bed, 21 ft. The rear bed is kind of rare (for good reason, now that I look back. I borrowed someone's 21 ft rear dinette and I liked it much better. I think it is the ideal layout. The rear bath models have a separate shower, but it is a very small shower. The rear dinette has a "wet bath" which means the bathroom IS the shower. I prefer this as it gives you a rather spacious shower with a handy seat.

There is also the rear kitchen model which has a 'wet bath" in the rear driver's side corner. I have no first hand experience with this layout, but, I think I would like it.

So, if you are vertically challenged a sunrader might suit you just fine. As for drivetrains, I would look for the 4 cylinder. It is absolutely bulletproof and the V-6's handful of extra ponies really aren't worth the added hassles. I say this as a V-6 owner who had the misfortune of doing a V-6 valve adjust last year. Not much fun. You can do a valve adjust on the 4 cylinder during your lunch break. And as a rule, V-6s bring a fair bit more money. They also give up a few mpgs, typically.

As for stealth parking, I think you'll be OK. It's not a 40 ft Prevost. It will fit in most normal parking spots. Pretty near the same footprint as the roadtrek,

[oboeterry]

Linda: thanks for the link... I joined the Yahoo Group and have been looking around a little; it's going to take some time, I think!

I<3MyEscaper: Thanks for the pic... but I am curious what the "wrong" axle would look like (so that I could compare?). Thanks!

86rder: Thanks for the comparison between the 4 cyl and V6; I am a bit concerned about how slowly I'd be going up hills, though... I may have to risk it :-?

Any advice on what models/ years if I'd like the most I could get in the smallest package (length)? Thanks so much, everyone!

Terry

[5Toyota]

the bad axle is a five lug flat end no long stick out like that in the pict. if you look at national r v archives you will find floor plans on the dolphon by national rv parris calif

[oboeterry]

Ok, I think I understand that... thanks!

[Odyssey 4x4]

Yup, on the "wrong" axle there will not be that center round section sticking out of the middle (that's the hub).

[waiter]

Different model considerations.

Toys built in the 70's and early 80s were all unique and seems like they were "one ofs". Look at the Chinook. Manufactures were buying pickups off the lot and pulling the box off and building on that chassis.. Early/mid 80's they started buying standard factory chassis with no box.

Somewhere around the early to mid 80's it seems like all the manufactures used the same (or similar) appliances, with similar layouts, engine/tranny packages were all about the same. - About 1985 things got standardized, 4 cyl with auto tranny, 1989 and above was 6 cyl with auto tranny. Before 1985, engines were 4 cyl, but trannys varied.

Around 1986 the Chassis started getting delivered with the one ton dully axle.

There are probably 6 main manufactures that built on Toyota mini pickup chassis. National RV (Dolphin) is probably the most popular, Winnebago (Itasca), Sunrader, Americana, Nova, are also right up there.

Sunrader is unique in that the exterior is a fiberglass shell. This is nice as its less prone to water leaks and hence wood rot. Most others are "stick built" as in a wood frame with fiberglass panel sides and aluminum roofs. Any water leaks that go unresolved usually result in wood rot of the frame. I would say that the cab-overs seem like they are most prone to this.

One of the manufactures used aluminum frame, (can't remember the name) so its less likely for wood rot, but still suspect-able to water leak.

I think its your personal preference as to the layout. I know the Dolphins (same as Seabreeze) have four different configurations and modem numbers. The 900 is the most popular. Toilet/bath in back, jackknife couch, table w/ bench seats This is the same as mine.

Somewhere around the early to mid 80's it seems like all the manufactures used the same (or similar) appliances.

ENGINE / TRANNY - Models 1988 and before had a 4 cyl. somewhere around 85/86 these had EFI ( I prefer EFI over carb) 1989 and up had the 6 banger with auto tranny.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[linda s]

Just to add, there are quite a few v6 models with a 5 speed. Not as common but they are out there.

Linda S

[oboeterry]

Thanks so much, all of you!

Terry

[DanAatTheCape]

I will add that the itasca spirit & winnie warrior are the same units/ there are basically 2 versions - 321-rb (21.5 foot with rear bath & another version slightly shorter. The shorter version does not have the flip sofa as the longer one does. Note there is a version with a front bath (rate) & a version with a L shaped settee.

The I/W's have a metal frame for the cab - not very heavy. Also they have a thin metal covering on the roof & underneath the cabin. Many of these campers have all wooden cabins with stick built sides/ roof. If those units get a leak the cabins can be essentially "totaled".

EXpect 14-15 mpg from the 6 cylinders. They can do colorado - I have had mine up to 12k on gravel roads. Top speed on highways (for me) is about 65. I have 2 campers - the first one liked about 58, my current one likes 62. What I mean by "like" is the speed where the engine does not feel like it is lugging. .

[bufbooth]

If you are tall, be sure to check out the Odysseys. They have the tallest ceiling..6 feet 3 inches, except for

under the ceiling A/C unit where it is 6 feet 1 inch. Also, the Odysseys are a couple inches wider.

Dennis...

[oboeterry]

Dennis,

Thanks for he tip about the Odysseys; I am a hair under 6' and having to slouch a little in my RT all the time is getting to my back. You wouldn't know if they come with the manual V6, would you? That sounds ideal (and probably impossible to find!) Thanks again,

Terry

[linda s]

Dennis,

Thanks for he tip about the Odysseys; I am a hair under 6' and having to slouch a little in my RT all the time is getting to my back. You wouldn't know if they come with the manual V6, would you? That sounds ideal (and probably impossible to find!) Thanks again,

Terry

I have seen a few manual and v6 Odyssey's but extremely rare. if one comes up you need to jump fast.

Linda S

[Bob C]

I have an '88 Escaper built by Damon Industries. It is built with an aluminum coach frame. It has a rear kitchen & bath, 2 captain's chairs, sofa bed, and the usual overhead double bed.

The second image is from taken the rear and the third is taken from the cab end.

The previous owner had removed the non-functioning 3 way refrigerator and installed a dorm refrigerator. I removed it and installed a 12 volt marine frig that came out of a scrapped out boat. I insulated the frig with an extra 2" of Styrofoam and it stays cold and does not run very often.

I am very pleased with the quality of the RV.

[oboeterry]

Linda & Bob: thanks so much for all of your input! I am taking notes so I'm am prepared when I'm ready to start looking

Terry

[JoeyDeezNutzz]

the 76 - 78 toyota chinook newports are a full on fiberglass shell ;p

[linda s]

the 76 - 78 toyota chinook newports are a full on fiberglass shell ;p

All Newports and Omegas were made in 1978. I have seen some tagged 79 but probably cause they were made late in the year

Linda S

[stamar]

one thing i wanted to add just for fun, is that the odyssey is a 22 foot model. as well as ez ryder and perhaps a few others.

its significantly wider.

so a lot of models went for 21 foot but a couple went even bigger.

[Joseph]

I found something funny, why during title and registering it I've been told its a 17 ft dolphin when its a 21.5 ft? not sure which model flip down side seat rear shower and bath just got the dead engine computer to work and pass emissions but two reg cards same Vin two different model numbers. Is this a stolen chop job? I can't find any identification Vin numbers anywhere except the dash and if you look a few bolts and you could swap it out. Anyone know anywhere on the frame where a Vin number would be? No red flags at DMV but every part of this rv is off something else it has 300,000 miles or more of wear and a gauge odometer that reads 112,000 I had to repair so much had been left apart to dangle, someone please help my phone has issues getting notification on this site bjbrads74 @gmail.com I need answers my only home.

[Derek up North]

Can't help you with the VIN, but this is what a 1987 should  look like.

1987 Dolphin Micro Mini.pdf

[Joseph]

Close but not even, I checked the Vin is also listed too a prius!? Or a incorrect Vin it has compartments everywhere not anywhere near that shape or color its raining or I would give good pictures is there even a 17 ft toyota for that year of 86-87? It was registered to two different counties in less then a month same year as title.

[Derek up North]

The only thing close in length in those years is an 18' Sunrader.

[linda s]

Vin locations information plate on firewall

There is another on the frame behind the passenger side wheel. Might be another on the floor on the passenger side of the driveline hump inside the cab.

Your already following this thread. When you go to this site click on unread content and you will see if anyone has added any info

Linda S

[Joseph]

Frame is all I got to hope for already seen a piece of floor cut out and hammered where the hump would be, its a jt5rn75u8g0010083 number the 5 means its a incomplete model meaning it could be any length style or weight I might be able to figure something out if vin doesn't match if it does there is a typo somewhere with Toyota bigger problems I have to find a vin or model number on the frame to match other vin tags on chassis but thank you everyone I'll keep looking this thing should be in the grave like me though both of us dont have much time unless I get help.

[linda s]

1 hour ago, Joseph said:

Frame is all I got to hope for already seen a piece of floor cut out and hammered where the hump would be, its a jt5rn75u8g0010083 number the 5 means its a incomplete model meaning it could be any length style or weight I might be able to figure something out if vin doesn't match if it does there is a typo somewhere with Toyota bigger problems I have to find a vin or model number on the frame to match other vin tags on chassis but thank you everyone I'll keep looking this thing should be in the grave like me though both of us dont have much time unless I get help.

Incomplete chassis is how all our motorhomes came. Means they were finished here and in your case by National RV in California. I sent you the info I got and everything is fine with the vin.

Linda S

[Joseph]

Oh ya I saw a 82 with a four listed, how in the world did they determine class that way if DMV is telling me its whoever says what length it is? Length equals a specific model generally on these things or toyota RVs. DMV every state charges by the foot starting usually at twenty no less but I'm being told if the title goes through its in a specific class generalized as 17 ft or less I'm so confused, 22 ft 17 ft it shows on title and reg at least 17ft, a cop pulls me over for any reason a extra 5 ft is a obvious flag is this a import thing? Dmv with weird rules no one cares under 20 foot? I gotta match the frame vin thats my only guess I'm right on this. Length on these things is really tripping me out on models for 3 years hardly any specifics on model or length even my dealer book says nothing but dolphin and there was like 4 models for this year all different lengths and styles if only I could figure out its exact model and what the deal is on length but thanks.

 

[Totem]

if I could do it all over again I would Target the rear dinette Odyssey Americana, the advantages of the hugeness and best floor plan and the fiberglass of the sunrader.

 

my sunrader is the  rear kitchen model which has a 'wet bath" in the rear driver's side corner layout. Its been running my wife and two daughters and German shepherd around but each summer the space is getting smaller.

Soon I will have to forget the wife at home to make room for the Dog.

[Derek up North]

16 hours ago, Joseph said:

... 4 models for this year all different lengths and styles if only I could figure out its exact model and what the deal is on length but thanks.

 

This might help. But there are only 2 lengths. 21'-4" & 21'-7".

1987 Dolphin Micro Mini.pdf

[Joseph]

Bumper to bumper its 22.7 but every vin I pulled says its 17 ft but driver tag shows twenty different models on this year and class must be a import thing frame vin wasn't all there but proves its the same as chassis and model vin numbers the ac units on these things prove exact model I found out but mine is gone and I can't find a top view of one only have markings to go by and weight the damage to roof and complaints show its at least a 200 pound high output model with a angled inside and outside covers very strange shape I've never seen but on the Toyota Winnebago its definitely not that model it must be a odyssey ac was wired for 35 amps and pulled that much judging by the melted outlet too it by the fridge outside outlet, not original generator only puts out 25 amps a little more with a tweak I did got 30 amps but its legal thats what was most important to me just red flags on the title and registration for any known reasons probably has to do with a divorce, now if I can just find someone in Oregon that will help me attach a frame too my roof before the coach and fiberglass folds in on the top I'd show pictures but I haven't figured out how to post pictures on this site files always to big its dropped four inches inside and out in the direct center outside pushing the roof to a concave popping caulking and sealing loose constantly it has to be jacked up in the rear centered or it pisses water everywhere I put my weight on the roof and it bends in more the other issues I can resolve myself but less then 500$ a month to work with and crippling pain is making it impossible to get anywhere with no friends left in this state any resources you can give me would be greatly appreciated barely have the ecu working and it never worked for twenty years but I learned how to keep passing it through emissions even if the computer is working slow lean/rich. Common problem on the one ton 699-35040 model ecu impossible to replace without 600$ for a completely new one rebuilt ones last for two years at most for that computer not chancing a 300$ used reman. Thank you so much for your help my rv has a lot of work to be done to save it from the grave, also requires a special thermostat I found after new one kept overheating a drilled hole fixed that.

[Derek up North]

Can you post some pictures? I'm pretty sure we can tell you what you've got, even if we can't help if there's something fishy with your VIN.

[Kevin O]

I'll put my oar in the water - we just returned from a 3 month trip in a new to us 87 22RE. Put on 10, 854 miles running from Maine through the desert Southwest, from 0 to 9500 ft. above sea level. The 22RE was a wonder - it worked hard at altitude, and up those steep Western Mountains, but loves to cruise at 55-60mph. Watch out in Utah where the speed limit is now 80 and everyone is going 90!) Love out little 4 cylinder - we used it hard and it performed beautifully - just doesn't blend in with the Suguaros very well!