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HD 14" tires the same size that the Toyotas use has been a major topic for Volkswagen campers. Lot of info around.

http://www.type2.com/library/tires/t2tirefq.htm

Type 2 Tires: Frequently Asked Questions

by the Type2 Mailing List

Summary of Tire Requirements for a Type 2:

This is a conservative outline of how to choose the best tires for your Type 2 based on factory recommendations. Running tires that are insufficiently load rated, for a passenger car, or too wide (especially on a heavier Type 2 camper) can lead to problems such as: tread separation and blowouts, poor handling, and premature steering component wear. Wider tires such as 205s will fit under the wheel well, but might scrape the bodywork in turns and will be more difficult to steer from a standstill.

  • SIZE: 185R14 (195 is also acceptible providing they meet the other load and sidewall requirements)
  • LOAD RANGE: "C" or "D" Light Truck (LT) tires.
  • MAXIMUM LOAD RATING: 1500-1700 lbs +
  • MAXIMUM INFLATION PRESSURE: 50-65psi.
  • SIDEWALL: Must have reinforced sidewall (i.e. more than the standard one ply sidewall found on a passenger car tire). Preferably 4 ply sidewall--this is the critical factor for improved handling.

Other considerations:

  • ALL SEASON: M+S (mud and snow) rated, all season (depends on your individual driving conditions/climate/local laws)
  • TREAD: Preferably aggressive

An Example of an Ideal Tire Meeting All the Above Criteria:

Yokohama LT195/75/R14

Tire rack #37047

1750 lb/D load range, 8 ply, LT tires

The Yoko Y370 LT 195/75 R 14 M&S are D load rated with 6 Steel belts and 2 Nylon. The sidewalls have 2 steel and 2 nylon.

HIGHWAY ALL SEASON

LT195/75R14 YO Y370 D 58.00(must be special ordered)

**Note: The Yoko Y370G are passenger car tires--avoid these

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HELP THE TIRE FAQ GROW! :
If you've discovered a tire model that meets the above criteria and is not listed in the table below, please
send information
on the tire including the Brand, Model, Size, Plies/Load Range/Maximum PSI and Weight rating and any comments. The information will be tabularized.

Thanks to Matt Judd, Rodney Boleyn, and Bruce Pattington for contributing!

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Detailed Tire Information from the Type2 Archive:

From Ken Hooper on Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:01:38 -0600:

Filched from the Bus FAQ in the Vanagon Files Archive, whence come many useful things:

TIRES -- check out: The Tire Rack

All Models, Buses and Vanagons

(1968-1991) "REGULAR" TIRES (highway/all season) Tire Brand and Model Size Plies/Load Range/Max. PSI/Max. Weight Comments BF Goodrich

All-Terrain TA LT

Triguard Sidewall radial

(also known as "Baja Commanders" or "Baja Champions?"

27x8.50 14

5/C/50/1515

(3+2 tread, 3 sidewall)

camper: loves them; stiff, somewhat noisy; good handling; higher ground clearance Bridgestone

RD-603 LT

185R14ST D

6/D/65/1850

(marked "8 ply")

(2+2 tread, 2 sidewall)

Nice and stable; Too early to know wearing qualities. Beautiful handling; no wander. Cooper

SRM II Radial LT

185R14C

-------

195R14C

Load Index: 102; Speed Symbol: Q; 65psi; 1875 max load; load range: D Highway tread

-----------

Load Index: 106; Speed Symbol: Q; 65psi; 2095 max load; load range: D; Highway tread Dunlop

SP LT5 Tubeless

LT5

185R15

185/75R14

6/C/??/????

?/D/55/????

???

good handling Goodyear

Aquatread

P205/70R14

4/*/44/????

*Standard Load;Treadwear 340;Traction A / Temp B;Great hi/lo speed handling esp when wet Goodyear

Interceptor

P215/70R14

4/*/44/???? Kelly

Safari All-Terrain 850x27R14 ?/?/??/???? ??? Michelin

XA4 M+S

XCH4 LT

XZX Reinforced

MXL Reinforced

MXT Reinforced

215/70/14

195/75R14

185/70SR14

205/70R14

205/70R14

?/?/35/????

6/C/50/1453

6/?/40/1540

6/B/40/????

7/?/50/1709

good handling, nice feel

Good (imho)

1=Good, 1=Horrid (squirrely)

1=good grip,stable Michelin

MX Reinforced

185R14

Plies: 6PR (2+2 tread, 2 SW); Load Range: 94R; Max PSI: 40 psi; Max Load: 1540 lbs.

(Aug99) Meet the bare minimum specs for a bus, officially passenger tires, not LT, not M+S rated, and for $72.95/ea from Big-O they seem expensive. Treadwear 240, Traction A, Temp. B. Michelin's Model# is NA0024210. Firmer than the previous non-reinforced passenger tires I had on my bus, but no other reactions yet. Is this the replacement for the (NLA?) XZX line? Sears

Trailhandler A-T

Trailhandler APT

LT195-75R14

195/75R14

6/C/50/????

6/C/50/????

1=horrid high speed, 1=good all round

Good+(so far) 40k warranty Summit

Trailclimbers LT

205/75R14

?/C/65/????

good traction, good stability, good cornering Uniroyal

Laredo 195/75R14 6/C/50/???? opean tread all-season, OK (lowish) noise, Handling ??, only 1 mounted, doesn't wallow; full set: quiet, good handling, cheap price Yokohama

Radial 371 AII

Y370LT

?

195/75R14

6/?/??/????

?/D/53/1700

long wearing

quiet, smooth, tough, excellent wear/handling SNOW TIRES Tire Brand and Model Size Plies/Load Range/Max. PSI/Max. Weight Comments Pirelli

Winter190

195/70R14

4/?/??/????

stiff, don't squirm Nokia

Hakkapeliitta 10 M+S

195/70R14

5/B/44/1356

tires have a rotation arrow, so they must be mounted correctly

Microbuses, 1963-1967 (from Bentley manual):

3/4-Ton Payload:

4-1/2 K x 15 Rims

6.40-15 Tires, 4 ply rating

1-Ton Payload (including Firetruck):

5 JK x 14 Rims

7.00-14 Tubeless Tires, 6 ply rating

Vanagons (from Bentley manual):

185 R 14 C

7.00-14 8 PR

185 SR 14 Reinforced

205/70 R 14

For tires using the P-metric designation (e.g., P245/50ZR16)

Format:

[Width]/[Aspect][Speed][Construction][Size]Code:P = PassengerLT = Light truckT = TemporaryLTP = Light truck, personal useWidth:Width at widest point, sidewall to sidewall, in millimetersAspect: the Aspect Ratio, ratio of tire sidewall height to tread width. Tire height in mm, measured tread to bead, divided by width above, multiplied by one hundred.Speed:Speed Ratings, the maximum speed the tire can maintain at its maximum load rating.Q - 100 mphR - 106 mphS - 112 mphT - 118 mphU - 124 mphH - 130 mphV - 149 mphW - 168 mphZ - more than 168 mphConstruction:R - Radial plyB - Bias beltedD - Diagonal biasSize: The diameter of the wheel the tire is designed to be mounted on, in inches.Other information:Maximum Air Pressure - This is the max pressure the tire is designed to hold (note this is more than the recommended inflation pressure)Maximum Load - Weight the tire can supportLoad Index - A code that indicates the maximum weight the tire can carry at its speed indicated by its speed ratingConstruction - Tells the number and type of plies used in the construction of the tread and sidewallDOT Serial Number - Identifies the plant, manufacturer, and date of productionTread Wear Index - A rating of the tire's resistance to wear. 100 is the reference. A 250 rating indicates 2.5 times the wear resistance of the reference tire. This number cannot be accurately translated to mileage.Traction Index - A rating of the tire's ability to stop on wet pavement. There are three grades, A, B, and C, with A being the best. This index does not reflect the tire's traction performance on dry, snowy, or icy pavement.Temperature Index - A rating of the tire's ability to dissipate and resist heat. There are three grades, A, B, and C, with A being the best.Bren SmithFrom Steve Lashley on Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:28:15 -0700:I got my new tires from The Tire Rack delivered today. UPS left them on the front porch. Here is what they say on them:YOKOHAMA RADIAL 370 STEEL BELTED M+SPLIES: SIDEWALL POLYESTER 2TREAD POLYESTER 2 + STEEL 2LT19575R14LOAD RANGE DMAX LOAD SINGLE 775KG (1710 LBS) AT 450 KPA (65 PSI) COLDMADE IN JAPANY370BThe sticker also says 8PR LT on it, although the tires don't say 8PR. I'm not sure how they get the 8 ply from the above description.The tread is much more aggressive than the Y356 tires I have now. These really look like mud and snow radials. I expect to have a little rougher an noisier ride once they are installed.No you won't find the Y370s on the Tire Rack site. They do carry them. I just received mine last week. $58 ea, plus $27 shipping. Make sure you speak with someone who knows what these tires are. There is some confusion regarding these because Yokohama makes a Y370G tire which is a passenger white wall.From David Raistrick:As for what tires I WOULD recommend: Yokohama 370 LT195/75R14Sears can get them. Load D tire, mild allterrain tread. I've put almost 35k on them since september when I bought them. Rain, dry, dirt, mud, ice. No snow. Gravel too...:)Love them. A little noisy, but easily bearable.One note: Don't let anyone tell you to get the 185 or 195 Yokohama 356's. Why? They are highway rib tires, that do not have sideways grooves to allow water out.....though they are Load D tires.There are a few 195/75R14 or 185R14 tires available, Bridgestone makes one, I know..in the Dueler line. Decent tire also. You need a load C or load D tire, and you want an all season radial, not a highway tire...:)From Stephen T Whetstone:I'm not certain if these tires have been discussed much before, but the tires I bought for my '78 Westfalia were Continentals. I believe the models are Contact CS/CT21. They have the 185r14 reinforced.I ordered mine through Sears and believe I ended up paying $304 (10% off sale) for four after mounting/balancing/disposal/ taxes/etc. I've notice that handle noticeably better than the previous Michelins that were on it when I bought it. I believe the old tires were "XZX" & ?I had originally seen a set on a Westie at one of the BugOuts in Manassas, VA last year.From Jack Stafford:I bought some new tires at my local FLATS. Bridgestone RD603, 8-ply rating, Load Range D, Max load 1850lb @ 65psi cold. $72 each, mounted and balanced. They are the stock size, 185R14 so my snow chains will still fit them. End of tire testimonial...From William Warburton:As far as choosing good tyres is concerned my recommendations (and those of other listees) would be to look for:	an "LT" designation, with "Load range C" or "Load range D".	the "C" suffix on the tyre designation- ie 185R14C _not_ 185R14	A maximum inflation pressure of 50-60psi. not 40psi	A maximum weight rating of over 1500lbs.Although I am talking only about 185R14 sized tyres you should be aware that VW specified 195R14 as a valid alternative, so you can use those, too. It's perfectly possible to go with some other sizes- 195/75R14, for example, or possibly 215/70R14, however you are then diverting sufficiently far from stock that you should make sure you understand the implications of the size, speed and weight ratings, sidewall stiffness and tread design before going ahead- unfortunately you can't trust the tyre-people to do this right as they often don't have the knowledge and experience to know what works well on a bus. The weight ratings of "Passenger car" tyres are different from those of "Light Truck" tyres- hence the preference for the "LT"s If you're looking at passenger car tyres then you might find it useful to know that VW specified a load index of 97R to be appropriate for a vanagon. That's a weight rating of 1609lbs at a maximum of 106mph, if memory serves. Most arn't this high- 92 or 94 is more common.Steve Lashley wrote:I don't have the Yokohama book, but I have a list from them and all of these tires are listed under Y370G:1857514 #37050 max load 1279 lbs1957514 #37051 max load 1389 lbs2057514 #37052 max load 1521 lbsLT195/75R14 #37047 8ply load range DThese are all considered 40,000 mile, all season tireshave been told that any of these tires will fit the Vanagon.There are also Y356 tires available that are still all season but with a less aggressive tread.185R14 #35601 6 ply load range C185R14 #35603 8 ply load range D LTLT195/75R14 #35602 8 ply load range DGeorge Lyle on Sat Jan 10 12:52:42 1998 responds:My recent tire follies have shown that there is a big difference between the rated load of 185R14 and 195/75R14 tires, with the _185R14_ having the higher load rating. (yes, I typed that correctly). The 195/75R14 tires were slightly smaller in all dimensions (except tread width, which was equal) than the 185R14.My standard-load 185R14 tires are rated at 1450 pounds at 36PSILoad range C 185R14 tires are rated at over 1700 pounds (don't remember the exact number) at 50PSI.The load range C 195/75R14LT tires I bought were only rated at 1435 pounds at 50PSI! Note that this is _less_ than the standard load 185R14 tires. Very disappointing!The specified tire load rating for my '71 station wagon is 1520 pounds at 40PSI.Seems that if you want to use tires of the proper capacity for a bus, you need to get either 185R14 load range C, or 195/75R14 load range D, with the former size being closer to the original 700-14 specification.I've seen the 185R14 in a Hercules brand for a reasonable price, but the load range C version of that tire isn't rated M+S. Darn!Two more considerations:Bus steering boxes are pretty fragile and expensive. Wider-than-stock tires (and they're all wider than stock nowadays!) put more stress on the steering box than the originals. There's no cure for this other than making sure that you are rolling a bit before cranking the wheels around.Tire chain clearance is limited. Both the 185R14s and 195/75R14 have sufficient clearance on my bus if you are careful to install the chains (limited clearance type) carefully. I avoid chains like the plague, but if I have to use them I don't want to destroy anything!From Roy D. Robertson on Fri Jul 11 10:11:32 1997:A number (too many) threads in the archives discuss tires. But which tires to buy is a big decision - I've regretted not buying the best tires for my bus before, so here's my advice on the subject again:

A VW bus, particularly a Westy, needs reinforced-sidewall tires. VW recommends 185R14 tires. P-rated tires, such as P185/14, are passenger tires and not rated for the heavier loads/sidewinds buses experience. Reinforced-sidewall tires help keep the bus in its lane on the highway instead of being blown about so. A bus, and especially a Westy, has a higher carrying capacity than most cars, and needs more heavy-duty tires to take full advantage of this capacity.

I've bought tires from The Tire Rack

1-888-362-8473, x 373 Don

Their selection is much larger and their prices much lower than what you can usually find locally. I bought four Yokohama Y370LT195/75R14 tires from them a few months ago. They cost $58 each, plus UPS ground shipping.

These tires seem to be perfect match for my VW bus. They have an all-weather tread design that gives good traction on dirt roads, while preserving a smooth ride on the highway. Being stronger tires than P-rated radials, the maximum air pressure for these is 65 psi. I keep mine inflated to about 52 psi rear, 40 psi front. I think that the decreased rolling resistance provided by the extra inflation pressure gives the bus something like 1~2 mpg better fuel economy than with P-rated tires. The 195/75 tires are slightly taller than 185 tires, providing a little more clearance on rough roads and slightly higher over-all drive (gearing) ratio.

From George Lyle on Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:09:30 -0700 (PDT):

The gross weight of the camper and station wagon is the same, so the tire requirement (at least from the factory) is the same. You can get by with lesser tires in a station wagon as the empty weight is a lot less than a camper and you usually don't get fully loaded. I don't recommend this...

VW requires a load rating of 1400 pounds. I'm pretty sure that the 185R14 "C" tire will handle this. A "D" rated tire is up around 1700+ pounds so it will handle a bus easily.

With most of these tires you will get 2 polyester plies in both the sidewall and tread (they wrap all the way around) and two steel plies in the tread area only. Standard load tires will have only one sidewall ply. The "ply rating" is a marketing gimmick that does not state the actual number of plies. For example, my Bridgestones are "8-ply rated", but only have four plies in the tread and two in the sidewall. I suppose that this is probably as strong or stronger than the original rayon-carcass bias-ply tires that the bus came with.

The real story is in the fine print on the sidewall that tells you the actual load rating in pounds. If the number is 1400 pounds or greater, you're cool.

From Steve Lashley on Sun, 22 Jun 1997 19:50:41 -0400:

I've read several posts about tires recently, and it seems that many tire shops are trying to talk Bus/Westy owners into some nice in stock passenger car tires. I suggest if they do this, insist on the correct tire, or go somewhere else. At least the Firestone guy was on the right track. My 8ply tires are rated at 1850 lbs. My Buses rear end weighs 2800 lbs, and the Bus weighs 4961 lbs empty. If I add all of my gear, and five passengers then I'm getting close to 6000 lbs total weight, thats 1500 lbs per tire. I don't think that the 8 ply tires are too much tire at all.

When I purchased my '74 Campmobile, it had passenger car tires on it. I immediately put on the Yokohama 356s and there was a major improvement in handling.

If you can still get the 6 ply Yokohama or Michelins, then thats what I would do. If you can't find these and 8 ply Firestones are available, then I would go for it.

From George Lyle on Wed Jul 30 12:45:10 1997:

I know that it's probably blasphemous to say it, but I get along very nicely with Hercules YP-821 4-ply-rated 185R14 standard-load tires (also sold under the brand names of Merit, Jupiter, etc.) Their load rating is 1450 pounds which gives me a comfortable margin even fully loaded (which is seldom). Their treadwear rating is 300, traction rating is A, Temperature B (which doesn't matter at bus speeds). The bus handles well with them and they cost a bit over $200 for four, mounted and balanced. One very nice thing that I have noted is that these tires don't tend to wear on the edges as did other tires (including expensive ones) I have tried.

After fighting one bad steering box in my '71, I wouldn't put anything wider than a 185 on my bus. Even then, I never turn the wheels with the bus stationary, since modern radials require more effort to turn at rest than the original bias tires. Forget the 205s!

Other tips:

If you haven't yet done so, install metal screw-in valve stems. One less thing to worry about.

If your rims need painting, the best time to do it is when changing tires, since you don't have to mask the tire.

Don't let the tire folks install the lug nuts with an air wrench. They should torque them by hand if you ask nicely.

Some tire stores attempt to balance the wheels with weights on the inside of the rim only for aesthetic reasons. If that's your thing, fine, but they can do a better job if they put weights on both the inside and outside.

From William Warburton (on non-stock rims and tire profiles):

... I have ... decided instead to source out a new set of alloy wheel rims and lower profile tyres, thus, achieving the same effect, or nearly, and the desired look.

Which effect? Lower profile tyre should reduce sidewall squish in a turn but will not lower the centre of gravity unless you reduce the overall size of the wheel+tyre quite a bit. This will obviously impact gear ratio (at the rear) and speedometer accuracy (at the front).

Well, how low.....and how wide ? Are there limits ?e.g.: 16 " wide rims with Pirelli P6's ?...and does this mess with your speedo ?

If you look at the way-kewl kustom buses, they run some very low profile rubber. This looks flash but the general concensus seems to be that it doesn't work too well for driving... and driving busses is what this list is all about.

The main issues are (1) The bus steering box is quite fragile. Low profile tyres and fat rubber increase the strain and lead to premature wear. (2) Ultra-low profile tyres just don't work that well on busses. I don't have a good explanation of why this is the case but it seems pretty widely accepted. My guess is that the combination of high centre of gravity and unsophisticated suspension mean you just don't get the benefits you might expect and have to live with tough parking, tramlining, aquaplaning, poor ride etc. Couple this with the fact that fat tyres decrease wet weather grip and it looks like it's best not to go too far, unless you tow your bus to the showground.

As far as speedometer accuracy is concerned, you just need to ensure that the overall diameter of the front wheel+tyre remains the same. This is known as "plus sizing": "+1" is a 1" increase in wheel diameter coupled with a 1/2" decrease in tyre sidewall height (there are two sidewalls per diameter), "+2" goes up two inches on the wheel (14"->16") and decreases the sidewall height by 1" etc.

If you want to make a modest change, you can go to a +1 setup with a 15" wheel and run 195/70R15C tyres. This reduces the sidewall height a little and gives you a slightly fatter tyre. The same wheels could be used with wider, lower profile tyres, too: 205/65R15 is the same size. The next width isn't as neat: 215/60R15 is a bit smaller than stock and 215/65R15 a bit larger. I havn't researched the options for 16" wheels, but the same principles apply. There's a good bit of info in the archives (check the vanagon ones, too) on the topic.

The final, and important, point is that bus tyres need to be substantially stronger that car tyres. This is particularly true if you actually want better handling. Most low profile tyres are designed for lightweight, sporty cars (this may be less of a problem in the USA than in Europe, mind you) and won't have adequate load carrying capacity for a bus.

You need a weight capacity of over 1500lbs for safety, and more than that for a good stiff sidewall. Tyres have a load index on the sidewall and for a bus you want something like 97S (730kg/1609lbs) or better (good van tyres are often 100 or more). The letter is the speed rating (S=up to 113mph) and generally isn't an issue for a bus :-). Eurovans use a 195/70R15C tyre, they will be strong and relatively cheap. Once you get over 195-section most of the tyres available in adequate weight ratings (look for "reinforced" tyres) are for big, powerful saloons/estates and they get a lot more expensive. You're typically paying for a 140mph speed rating you don't need.

Also, will any 5-stud wheel fit......can anyone suggest a happy and attractive combination ?

There are a few possibilities, though none seem to be perfect. You need a wheel with a 5-stud pcd (Pitch circle diameter) of 112mm. This matches a few fords, some Mercedes and some of the bigger Audi and VW saloons. You can also get adapters to fit Porsche wheels to a bus- some folks say that adapters are always a bad idea. Others that good adapters are OK, and the Fuchs wheels are so good (strong, light) that the combination is worthwhile. Genuine Fuchs wheels are expensive, copies are dangerous.

Unfortunately you also need to get the relationship between the tyre centreline and the hub correct. For a bus the "offset" is 41mm. Some of the Mercedes wheels are correct. Some are close (I don't know how close it needs to be) and I don't know about the others.

Finally, few of these cars have a hub that's as big as a bus and the profile of the lugnut seat needs to match. Depending on your situation, you might be best to work out how big you want to go, check you can get tyres to match and then hunt around some breakers yards for wheels that fit. Check the offset carefully before trying them and then make sure you can fit them OK.

You can, of course, buy new alloys from an aftermarket wheel supplier. If you go this route I would not trust the fitter to know what they are doing with a bus: even if they've fitted alloys to a bus before it was probably for someone who wanted them for show use not driving.

Finally, the steel rims that VW used are actually pretty good. They are lighter than many cheap alloys and lightness is a good thing in a wheel (unsprung weight).

I hope this is helpful, sorry it's so long but I still feel I've left out a lot of important detail!!!

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Thank you!

I'll check some more tires out. I was going to go with the Hankook RA08, but they actually look to be pretty much just highway tread. I'll check out some of those other options in your post and see what I can get in an A/T. Although from your first post with all those tires, the Hankooks are the only all season tire. I think I'll be ordering them.

The guy measured my front bolt spacing and he got 5 x 112mm, 14". Is 112mm close enough to your 114mm that it's all the same? If I've got some options in aftermarket rims (unlike what the tire guy told me), that would be cool.

But if your Chinook rims are in un-rusted shape and you're willing to part with them, send me a private message with price and all that, please!

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Thank you!

I'll check some more tires out. I was going to go with the Hankook RA08, but they actually look to be pretty much just highway tread. I'll check out some of those other options in your post and see what I can get in an A/T. Although from your first post with all those tires, the Hankooks are the only all season tire. I think I'll be ordering them.

The guy measured my front bolt spacing and he got 5 x 112mm, 14". Is 112mm close enough to your 114mm that it's all the same? If I've got some options in aftermarket rims (unlike what the tire guy told me), that would be cool.

But if your Chinook rims are in un-rusted shape and you're willing to part with them, send me a private message with price and all that, please!

There are rims for sale all over the place to fit the older Toyota trucks. Often $35 each plus shipping. No sense buying mine if you can find someone closer where shipping is less. The Toyota 2WD trucks (and many other makes) have the same patern from 1969 up to the late 90s.

The Chinook came with 14" rims, 5 lug X 4.5" pattern (114.3 mm), 67 mm centerhole, a medium offset, and 5" wide. Very common. You can buy the original 5" wide rims or buy newer 14" rims that are wider and made for wider tires (which I assume you do not need). They come in 5", 5 1/2", 6" wide, etc. I'm talking about OEM steel wheels. There are also hundreds of types of alloy and chrome wheels to fit your truck at a high price.

The same exact wheels that came on your Chinook are $35 each here . .

http://www.capitalwheels.com/store/customer/search.php?substring=Toyota+pickup&in_category=&x=20&y=7

and here . .

http://www.capitalwheels.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=1800&cat=&page=1

Some aftermarket here . . .

http://www.summitracing.com/search/department/wheels-tires/part-type/wheels/wheel-diameter/14-in/wheel-bolt-pattern/5-x-4-1-2-in

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Great, thanks. I got led very far astray by that tire guy...

I'm going with the Hankooks, and might just go with those stock rims. They're definitely the cheapest option.

Do I need to pay attention to backspacing? They don't seem to vary too much, but there definitely is some difference in the aftermarket wheels. The stock wheels don't say.

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We are very happy with the RA08's on the Toy and the Hankooks on my Aerostar.

The old HD bias-ply tires would often get flat spots when parked and you had to drive them for awhile and get them hot before they got round again.

I really liked the nylon bias ply's I got for many years back in the day, rode well, strong, light, great traction. But the "nylon thump" as it was commonly called was very objectible to some. As you said it went away as soon as the times warmed up. When I couldn't get them anymore was told it was the reason, so I had to go to steel belts abd to get the load factor I was used to had to also go to a wider tire, which also made me go to a wider rim, the stock Dodge wheels rounded the new tires too much.

When I was talking to the tech at Hankook about a load/pressure chart for my RA08's he told me that there were 3 plys in the sidewall, but it was for sure an 8 ply rated tire.

Love this forum

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Do I need to pay attention to backspacing? They don't seem to vary too much, but there definitely is some difference in the aftermarket wheels. The stock wheels don't say.

What you DON'T want are wheels designed with an offset/backspace for a front wheel drive application. They'll place the tire too far 'in' and will probably cause interference with suspension, steering etc.

If you want new and something different from stock and don't want the hub cap 'look', you could try these:-

http://www.tirebuyer.com/wheels/pacer/310w-white-spoke/p/style/37128

They seem to be popular on Chinooks.

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When I was talking to the tech at Hankook about a load/pressure chart for my RA08's he told me that there were 3 plys in the sidewall, but it was for sure an 8 ply rated tire.

The '6/8-ply' designation is way the 'old' system. AFAIK, the tire manufacturers would love for it to disappear as soon as people forget about it. It has nothing to do with the number of plies that are needed to built a safe tire with modern tire. You won't find any 8-ply tire that actually have 8 plies!

About as relevant, in reality, as 'Horse Power' is to horses!

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I HATE white spoke rims :)

It's a character flaw, I know, but I can't stand the way they look, and to a certain extent I really do care how things look.

They're what I have on the back now, and even before I knew I was going to have to replace the rear rims due to size issues, I was planning on replacing them anyways, because they're white spoke rims. Black spoke rims would be a whole other deal...and that's what I was originally going to go for.

So most of the rims JD posted (aftermarket ones) are between 3.something - 4" backspacing. They don't mention whether they're for front wheel drive or not.

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Sand blasting and hammer finished silver paint will hide a bunch of ugly rim issues.

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The '6/8-ply' designation is way the 'old' system. AFAIK, the tire manufacturers would love for it to disappear as soon as people forget about it. It has nothing to do with the number of plies that are needed to built a safe tire with modern tire. You won't find any 8-ply tire that actually have 8 plies!

About as relevant, in reality, as 'Horse Power' is to horses!

The ply rating still applies and has important meaning. But it is based on equivalency and not actual plies. If you read the small print in the tire specs a "6 ply tire" is a "6 ply rated tire." That means it has the durability of the older bias-ply truck tires that actually had 6 plies. If you buy a new tire with a "6 ply rating" it will be more durable then one with a "4 ply rating."

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When the wheel has an offset that puts the tire closer to the center of vehicle - that is "positive offset." It first became common in front-wheel drives but is now also common in rear wheel, all-wheel, and four-wheel drives. With Toyotas - vehicles with high positive offset include Avalon, Echo, Camry, Celica, Corolla, Land Cruiser, MR2, RAV4, Sequoia, Sienna, 2WD Tacoma truck, Tundra, X-Runner, inside wheels on dually RVs, etc., &c.

The 1/2 ton 5" wide and 14" diameter wheels used on the 70s to early 90s 2WD 1/2 to Toyota trucks have a 3/8" positive offset (10 mm). The 6 lug dually-type rim used on the 1 tons and newer RVs have a huge 2 1/8" negative offset (54 mm) on the fronts and on the outside wheels on back. The two inside wheels are reversed and have a huge 2 1/8" positive offset.

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I just stumbled across a few sites that indicate that ~2005 the Toyota 2WD 5x114.3 rims changed offset from 10 mm to 38 mm. So I guess if you're looking for wheels in the junkyard, make sure they aren't too new! :)

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When the wheel has an offset that puts the tire closer to the center of vehicle - that is "positive offset." It first became common in front-wheel drives but is now also common in rear wheel, all-wheel, and four-wheel drives. With Toyotas - vehicles with high positive offset include Avalon, Echo, Camry, Celica, Corolla, Land Cruiser, MR2, RAV4, Sequoia, Sienna, 2WD Tacoma truck, Tundra, X-Runner, inside wheels on dually RVs, etc., &c.

The 1/2 ton 5" wide and 14" diameter wheels used on the 70s to early 90s 2WD 1/2 to Toyota trucks have a 3/8" positive offset (10 mm). The 6 lug dually-type rim used on the 1 tons and newer RVs have a huge 2 1/8" negative offset (54 mm) on the fronts and on the outside wheels on back. The two inside wheels are reversed and have a huge 2 1/8" positive offset.

Ok, so if the stock wheels had less than half an inch positive offset, how does that compare to, say...3.5" backspacing? The word backspacing doesn't make it obvious to me whether it's positive or negative offset.

Or am I missing the point?

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Backspace is how far from the 'back' of the rim the wheel mounting surface is. Relating tha backspace to the offset will depend on the rim width. If you have a 7" wide rim, there's zero offset. A 5" rim will have 1.5" offset. Assuming your 3.5" backspace.

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When the wheel has an offset that puts the tire closer to the center of vehicle - that is "positive offset." It first became common in front-wheel drives but is now also common in rear wheel, all-wheel, and four-wheel drives. With Toyotas - vehicles with high positive offset include Avalon, Echo, Camry, Celica, Corolla, Land Cruiser, MR2, RAV4, Sequoia, Sienna, 2WD Tacoma truck, Tundra, X-Runner, inside wheels on dually RVs, etc., &c.

The 1/2 ton 5" wide and 14" diameter wheels used on the 70s to early 90s 2WD 1/2 to Toyota trucks have a 3/8" positive offset (10 mm). The 6 lug dually-type rim used on the 1 tons and newer RVs have a huge 2 1/8" negative offset (54 mm) on the fronts and on the outside wheels on back. The two inside wheels are reversed and have a huge 2 1/8" positive offset.

Are you sure you don't have your rear wheel offset descriptions reversed? Front and inner rears are the 'same', it's the outer rears that're reversed.

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Well, it's still clear as mud to me. I'll likely just go with those stock wheels JD posted and move on. The price is definitely right.

If the tire is 6" wide with 3.5" back spacing...what does that tell me? Because that's the info given for all those aftermarket wheels. No idea if that's positive or negative offset.

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Are you sure you don't have your rear wheel offset descriptions reversed? Front and inner rears are the 'same', it's the outer rears that're reversed.

Yes, I flipped things over in my mind. Rear inner wheels have positive offset and rear outers have negative. I also have trouble keeping "positive" and "negative" straight. For some reason my brain sees "positive" as a wheel sticking out further and "negative" as one sticking in further. A*s-backwards as usual. Mental dyslexia.

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Bass Ackwards! :greedy:

And are you sure about that 2 1?8" offset? I think the rims are 5 1/2" wide, so wouldn't it have to be at least 2 3/4" to just be able to mount them back to back? Add another inch to give some tire clearance? I don't have a rim to measure without driving 40 minutes each way.

Finally, I guess technically, the rear outside rims would have an offset (negative) greater by the thickness of the web? :shit:

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Don't know exactly how this off set is measured but my duallies are 7 1/2 inches from mounting surface to outside of the rim. maybe you can figure it out from that. Tell me if there's something else I should measure. My rig is right outside

Linda S

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Thank you. Unless anyone sees a problem with those stock 79-88 wheels JD posted, that's what I'm going to go with. The price is right, and there's no offset or back spacing to worry about.

http://www.capitalwheels.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=1800&cat=&page=1

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Wheels still installed? If so, the easiest way to get a rough number would be to measure from the center of 1 tire to the center of the other tire. Divide by 2 and that's the negative offset of the outer rim. Subtract the thickness of the wheel (1/8"?) and that's the positive offset of the inner wheel.

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Don't know exactly how this off set is measured but my duallies are 7 1/2 inches from mounting surface to outside of the rim. maybe you can figure it out from that. Tell me if there's something else I should measure. My rig is right outside

Linda S

At this point I am confusing myself. Here are some photos with measurements that describe better then I do verbally. But - let me try to put one techincal aspect in words (I'm not good at expressing via a keyboard).

The 1 ton wheel has a 6" wide rim. The distance from one outside edge of that rim to the mounting plate (where the lug holes are) is 7". The distance from the other outside edge of that rim to the mounting plate (where the lug holes are) is 1 1/8", more-or-less.

Now - take the 6 lug hub if in front. The mounting area for the wheel sticks out away from the center of the truck 2 1/2" more then the standard 5 lug, 1/2 ton hub.

So for a half-ton, 5 lug wheel to be in the same track as a 6 lug dually-type wheel on the HD hub, the 1/2 ton, 5 lug wheel needs a distance of 4 1/2" from the inside edge of the rim to the mounting area (where the lugs are). Hope that makes sense because I am starting get lost in my own figures again. Thus the photos.

post-6578-0-65745400-1360616119_thumb.jp

post-6578-0-94059300-1360616122_thumb.jp

post-6578-0-59502400-1360616125_thumb.jp

post-6578-0-92303400-1360616127_thumb.jp

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Here I go again. Having a bad day. Maybe the snow is getting to me. Disregard the "caption" on the first photo. It makes no sense.

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Ok. After re-reading some posts...I gather, based on what I've seen that ANY rim with back spacing is going to have positive offset. Correct? Because any amount of back spacing will be the lug nut holes moving in, towards the center of the vehicle, from the the center of the wheel, which by definition is a POSITIVE offset, since the center of the wheel is now out past the mounting surface. Do I FINALLY understand?? :)

And within reason, since my Chinook is kind of wide, the more back spacing the better, since it'll widen my stance a little? It would follow that the more back spacing, the less likely the rim would rub any vehicle parts, since its sticking farther out away from the vehicle than in?

Yes? No?

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Ok. After re-reading some posts...I gather, based on what I've seen that ANY rim with back spacing is going to have positive offset. Correct? Because any amount of back spacing will be the lug nut holes moving in, towards the center of the vehicle, from the the center of the wheel, which by definition is a POSITIVE offset, since the center of the wheel is now out past the mounting surface. Do I FINALLY understand?? :)

And within reason, since my Chinook is kind of wide, the more back spacing the better, since it'll widen my stance a little? It would follow that the more back spacing, the less likely the rim would rub any vehicle parts, since its sticking farther out away from the vehicle than in?

Yes? No?

This off-set, postive and negatives, back-spacing, etc. drives me nuts. But yes, aftermarket wheels often stick out further (away from the center for the vehicle) and give a wider track.

I'm going to quit while I'm behind and go back in the shop where I can do less damage. Two more pictures hopefully with descriptions that make more sense.

post-6578-0-56935400-1360616997_thumb.jp

post-6578-0-92061200-1360617000_thumb.jp

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since my Chinook is kind of wide, the more back spacing the better, since it'll widen my stance a little? It would follow that the more back spacing, the less likely the rim would rub any vehicle parts, since its sticking farther out away from the vehicle than in?

Yes? No?

The one down-side to aftermarket rims with a lot of negative offset (making the track wider) is more uneven load on the wheel bearings. Not a huge issue unless they stick way out.

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I'm hoping you meant positive offset, or else everything I just thought I understood goes out the window... : )

Thank you!

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The one down-side to aftermarket rims with a lot of negative offset (making the track wider) is more uneven load on the wheel bearings. Not a huge issue unless they stick way out.

Which is what he's got at the moment and is trying to get rid of. :)

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Well, the factory steel rims only have 10mm of positive offset, so IF an aftermarket rim is designed to move the rim further 'out' (but still the same width rim), you'd be into 'negative territory' pretty fast. But most aftermarket rims are usually a wider rim, so the offset might stay the same, with some rim width added inside and some outside.

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So, reading through the posts again, please clarify...which is positive, and which is negative? I thought positive offset meant that the mounting surface moved back, making the tires be out farther (wider). If I'm looking at an aftermarket rim with +12mm offset, is this wider than stock, or more narrow?

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So I had it backwards when I thought I had it figured out, a few posts back? Negative offset makes my rear slightly wider, positive slightly more narrow? Should be a very straightforward question...

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As far as I've read, the factory rims have 10mm of positive offset. 12mm is less than 1/8" difference. You won't notice it without using calipers. But very, very slightly narrower. But if you installed a set of rims with a typical FWD offset of 35-50mm, it would be a lot narrower.

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So if I'm looking to have my tires set slightly wider than stock, I'm looking for a NEGATIVE offset. Correct?

Or say with these...since their offset is zero, they would stick out slightly farther than stock?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wvi-12-451203/overview/

Most of the wheels I've been seeing have positive offsets.

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