Toybox and snow

[ShaggyRV]

Hello:

First I want to apologize for not having photos. I forgot my camera. I drove the 86 Granville from Bunker Hill, WV to Canaan Valley state park, WV. While driving up it began to snow. I was on Rt 50 heading up 6-9% grades. the road started to get snow covered and I was a bit nervous. Well I never slid or spun a tire. The 6000lb toy performed flawlessly. There were alot of 15mph switchbacks where I had to drop to 1st then back up to 2nd after the turn. I managed 30 to 40 mph on these grades in 2nd. Not too bad really. I then took Rt 93 up to RT32 in Davis, WV. It snowed pretty much all day on Friday and was snowing again when I woke up Saturday. There was about 6 inches of new snow. The state park kept the campground roads pretty clear after I got there. when I arrived there was about 4in of snow in the campground roads. I was going to stay 2 nights but the wife forgot her bag. Ugh. So we had lunch and headed out in the snow. Some places at high elevation near Mt Storm was a whiteout. The Toyota never spun a tire and was rock solid in the snow. On the way down I kept speeds slow and downshifted to 2nd and all was well. So anyone who was wondering how they do in the snow I say go for it if your tires are good. now if it gets a bit icy then that changes everything. Also a wet snow can become packed and turn icy. the snow I went through was a nice dry fluffy powder.

[Derek up North]

And what tires are you using?

[fred heath]

Sounds like a good trip.
I left NH on Dec 29 headed to Raleigh,NC. Hit major snow storms in Conn.and PA. The traction as you stated was great. The only problem I encountered was most of the weight is concentrated over the rear axle. In my case it made the front end very light. If I hit any icy patches I found it very challenging to keep the front wheels headed in the right direction. Other than that my toy is great in snow.

[ShaggyRV]

And what tires are you using?

The rears are coopers. I can't remember the name. fairly aggressive looking tread. They are not passenger tires! The fronts are Yokohama tires. they are also not passenger rated. Anyhow I didn't really encounter any ice as it was very cold and the snow was fluffy powder and not really melting on contact and then freezing. Ice would be a problem if you were driving just about anything!!

[Derek up North]

Ice would be a problem if you were driving just about anything!!

Studs or chains, though 'Ice Tires' have really improved.

[ShaggyRV]

Sounds like a good trip.

I left NH on Dec 29 headed to Raleigh,NC. Hit major snow storms in Conn.and PA. The traction as you stated was great. The only problem I encountered was most of the weight is concentrated over the rear axle. In my case it made the front end very light. If I hit any icy patches I found it very challenging to keep the front wheels headed in the right direction. Other than that my toy is great in snow.

I recently weighed my toy. I had 4000lbs at the rear and 2000lbs on the front. a bit unbalanced but pretty good i think.

[ShaggyRV]

Studs or chains, though 'Ice Tires' have really improved.

The worst part of the whole thing was spraying the whole vehicle off in 20 deg temps this morning to get all the salt off!!

[Derek up North]

I recently weighed my toy. I had 4000lbs at the rear and 2000lbs on the front. a bit unbalanced but pretty good i think.

They all seem to have 1/3 weight front, 2/3 rear.

[ShaggyRV]

BTW the Canaan RV park is pretty nice if ya want to go up there in the winter. $20 a night taxes included. No water but there is electric and a nice clean heated bath house. If you make arrangements with the front desk at the lodge they will have the shuttle come to the campground to take you up to the slopes.

[aptruncata]

I hope this question doesn't sound too stupid but can you put chains on rear duallys?

[waiter]

Not a dumb question at all. I carry a set of "Cable Chains", but have never had to install them, yet.

My concern would be the chain rubbing on the sidewall of the other tire.

Has anyone had experience with this topic?

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[90toydolphin]

would like to hear from someone using chains on a regular basis, two only on dual rears? inside or outside tire?

[Dolphinite no longer here]

I've used chains before on my '85 Dolphin. I put a set of the criss-cross kind on the outside tire on each side. I had no problem with the chain contacting the inner tire but the chain did want to hit the wheel well a few times. I solved that problem by using those rubber tensioners on the chain. I put three on each chain-a total of six- but it worked. I did have to keep my speed down to under thirty, actually more like twenty-five.

My problem wasn't going, it was stopping. The chains sure helped, but the going was very slow. I made it, though...

[powdrhound]

This question recently came up on the Yahoo forum.

I copied my reply:

Although my Nokian tires really need No assistance from chains, in California I have to use them when it goes from R1 to R2.
I use the Z-chain's on the outer tires. They work great. Z-547.

I carry two 8" long pieces of 2x6. Set one flat, one on top, angled down in between the 2x6 and the inner tire. The top 2x6 acts as a ramp, and pivots easily when I back onto it.

This lifts the outer tire completely off the ground, and allows me to easily hang the z-chain on the outer tire. And allows me to make all of the final adjustments quite easily.

With our limited clearances, I have to run the chains quite tight against the tire. Often I have to use a bungie cord to tighten the chains so they will not rub. You may need to pump more pressure in your air bags to increase your clearances.

With new tires, I adjust the chains to one lug from full tight. With used tires, I run the z-547's at full tight, with the bungies as necessary. I am back on the road within 20 minutes.

When properly adjusted, I can drive up to 40 mph with confidence, if the conditions allow. Usually, I do drive slower.

My last trip, I had to drive for way too many miles of dry road, but they had R2 posted for a couple icy spots. One of the cross-members snapped. I was able to tie it off and continue, but I was pissed at CalTrans for the un-necessary R2requirement. Replacement cross-members are available thru special order.

Let me again voice my recommendation of the Z-chain. Since there is always some portion of the Z cross-member between the tire and the road, you have NONE of the whump-whump-whump you get with regular perpendicular cables or chains. You
get a much smoother ride.

I have had several occasions where, after staying for the week at Kirkwood during the storm week, with the chains on for the week, the snow and slush has frozen into a do-nut between the tires. This traps the inner cable completely within the ice do-nut. I then spend 20-30 minutes per side chipping away at the inside ice pack. No fun.

In summary, the Nokian Hakkapeliitta tires do not need chains for EXCELLENT traction and control, but when required while in California, the Z-chain is my best choice. I have driven thousands of miles on ice and snow covered roads in Oregon, Washington and Idaho with complete non-chained control.

Enjoy your trip.
John


Let it Snow!

R1: Chains required, except Autos & Pickups with M&S tires on all wheels. (We
are heavily overloaded pickups)

R2: Chains required, except 4WD with M&S on all wheels.

R3: Chains required. (Usually closed before R3)

You have to watch out for the sign, see which way it is turned.
The phone line (800-427-SNOW) is usually pretty accurate, but there are times where rapidly changing chainlines are slow to be updated.

[fred heath]

Off the snow subject a bit.

I carry a short section of 5/4 (true 1 inch) x 4 next to my jack. It's beveled on both ends and about 24" long. If your outside duel should go flat, position wood by the inside duel and drive it up and onto the wood. You can now remove the o/s wheel without jacking the rear axle off the ground. Makes roadside changes real easy.

[paulnptld]

This question recently came up on the Yahoo forum.

I copied my reply:

Although my Nokian tires really need No assistance from chains, in California I have to use them when it goes from R1 to R2.

I use the Z-chain's on the outer tires. They work great. Z-547.

I carry two 8" long pieces of 2x6. Set one flat, one on top, angled down in between the 2x6 and the inner tire. The top 2x6 acts as a ramp, and pivots easily when I back onto it.

This lifts the outer tire completely off the ground, and allows me to easily hang the z-chain on the outer tire. And allows me to make all of the final adjustments quite easily.

With our limited clearances, I have to run the chains quite tight against the tire. Often I have to use a bungie cord to tighten the chains so they will not rub. You may need to pump more pressure in your air bags to increase your clearances.

With new tires, I adjust the chains to one lug from full tight. With used tires, I run the z-547's at full tight, with the bungies as necessary. I am back on the road within 20 minutes.

When properly adjusted, I can drive up to 40 mph with confidence, if the conditions allow. Usually, I do drive slower.

My last trip, I had to drive for way too many miles of dry road, but they had R2 posted for a couple icy spots. One of the cross-members snapped. I was able to tie it off and continue, but I was pissed at CalTrans for the un-necessary R2requirement. Replacement cross-members are available thru special order.

Let me again voice my recommendation of the Z-chain. Since there is always some portion of the Z cross-member between the tire and the road, you have NONE of the whump-whump-whump you get with regular perpendicular cables or chains. You

get a much smoother ride.

I have had several occasions where, after staying for the week at Kirkwood during the storm week, with the chains on for the week, the snow and slush has frozen into a do-nut between the tires. This traps the inner cable completely within the ice do-nut. I then spend 20-30 minutes per side chipping away at the inside ice pack. No fun.

In summary, the Nokian Hakkapeliitta tires do not need chains for EXCELLENT traction and control, but when required while in California, the Z-chain is my best choice. I have driven thousands of miles on ice and snow covered roads in Oregon, Washington and Idaho with complete non-chained control.

Enjoy your trip.

John

Let it Snow!

R1: Chains required, except Autos & Pickups with M&S tires on all wheels. (We

are heavily overloaded pickups)

R2: Chains required, except 4WD with M&S on all wheels.

R3: Chains required. (Usually closed before R3)

You have to watch out for the sign, see which way it is turned.

The phone line (800-427-SNOW) is usually pretty accurate, but there are times where rapidly changing chainlines are slow to be updated.

Hey John,

Just out of curiosity, how much do the Nokian tires cost?