Air Conditioner

[Vanman]

I was talking by phone to a repair place and mentioned that my 1991 Dolphin's A/C doesn't blow near as cold as the Toyota cab A/C, might it need to be recharged?? Was told "those old A/C's do not have the fittings to re-charge and it's too hard to get an A/C man out to install them so we just replace with new".

Is he right about that or just trying to get more $$$$

And would a new roof A/C unit work better that the older ones anyway????

[Dolphinite no longer here]

It is hard to get someone to work on the roof top A/C but they are definitely rechargeable. I called all around my home town until I was referred to a retired gent who would work on my 13,500 btu unit. I don't know if the newer ones are any better than the old ones but you can get smaller ones that use less power and, if you're running the A/C off a portable generator, the Honda 2000 will power the Coleman 7,500 btu unit which will usually give you about a 20 degree temperature drop in a 20-foot Dolphin.

John

[Maineah]

They are made with out fittings however any A/C repair shop has clamp on fittings just for that reason, once installed they stay there.

[zero]

I was talking by phone to a repair place and mentioned that my 1991 Dolphin's A/C doesn't blow near as cold as the Toyota cab A/C, might it need to be recharged?? Was told "those old A/C's do not have the fittings to re-charge and it's too hard to get an A/C man out to install them so we just replace with new".

Is he right about that or just trying to get more $$$$

And would a new roof A/C unit work better that the older ones anyway????

He's probably correct and doing you a favor. Most do not have fittings but any A/C repair guy would just add cheap "pierce valves" to service it. The issue it - why does it need recharging? Obviously it has a leak. The repair guy is probably trying to avoid an angry customer who pays for a service call and recharge and winds up with a dead A/C unit a short while later. If it does not have a leak - the cost of a service call probably outweighs the cost of a new unit - in the long run.

A/C systems don't leak unless there is a problem. In older cars and trucks is can be minor since the OEM A/C hoses naturally leak if updated to the new 134A refrigerant. New "barrier" hoses are needed to contain its smaller molecular structure. In self-contained 120 VAC power units there are no rubber hoses to leak.

[Maineah]

The only way to find out if it's worth fixing is to check the pressures it's up to you new ones are around $600 a compressor maybe $150. 1/2 pound of R11 installed maybe $50 lasted 25 years get another 5 you're smiling.

[zero]

The only way to find out if it's worth fixing is to check the pressures it's up to you new ones are around $600 a compressor maybe $150. 1/2 pound of R11 installed maybe $50 lasted 25 years get another 5 your smiling.

A new 13,500 BTU roof unit can be bought new for $400-$450 is some shopping-around is done. Coleman Mach 3 # model 48203B876 is one example of several. Granted that fixing an AC unit for $50 sure beats buying a new one. But if a person is paying for the diagnosis and work - it is often not worth it.

http://www.adventurerv.net/coleman-13500-btu-roof-air-conditioner-top-unit-p-1331.html?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=Froogle&gclid=CPye0Kn2iLUCFUqf4AodPn0A1A

[Guest Ken and Tina]

What are the opinions on what is the best A/C units to put in on a 18 foot Sunrader powered by a Honda 2000?

Thanks guys

Ken

1987 Sunrader Classic 4x4

[linda s]

What are the opinions on what is the best A/C units to put in on a 18 foot Sunrader powered by a Honda 2000? Thanks guys Ken 1987 Sunrader Classic 4x4

The only AC that will work with a Honda 2000 is the 9200 BTU Coleman Polar Cub. I've been told PPL RV parts has the best price including shipping.

Linda S

Got your new wheels on yet? Send me a pic

[Totem]

you will most likely need the better start capacitor for your AC unit if you intend to run off of the 2000 dont forget...

[linda s]

My friend Mark in Texas has this combo and did not need to install a hard start capacitor. Gets pretty hot in Texas

Linda S

[fred heath]

My unit is an original 1978. It blows plenty cold.

I too checked into a recharge. I was told the system was a sealed unit and could not be recharged. As JD said, it would be cheaper to replace the whole unit.

Here in NC it stays around 95 degrees with high humidity. Don't know what I'd do without it.

[douglitas]

just hooked up shore power and Coleman roof A/C for first time on our 1987 Seabreeze which we've had since jan. Blows cold for 5 min then blows a breaker in the house elec panel. End of cord feels hot to touch. cord coming out of Toyhouse has a 220v male plug plugged into a convertor that has the conventional 3-prong 110 AC plug which I connected to house power. The little door to the power closet on drivers side of Toyhouse says "110 V only"....what could be wrong? the other end of the cord is connected to the breaker box/ power convertor under the sofa.

Someone converted something to 220? and then back with weird plug convertor? anybody else with problems like this? thanks!

[zero]

just hooked up shore power and Coleman roof A/C for first time on our 1987 Seabreeze which we've had since jan. Blows cold for 5 min then blows a breaker in the house elec panel. End of cord feels hot to touch. cord coming out of Toyhouse has a 220v male plug plugged into a convertor that has the conventional 3-prong 110 AC plug which I connected to house power. The little door to the power closet on drivers side of Toyhouse says "110 V only"....what could be wrong? the other end of the cord is connected to the breaker box/ power convertor under the sofa.

Someone converted something to 220? and then back with weird plug convertor? anybody else with problems like this? thanks!

Most Toyota RVs of the "full-size" range, i;e. 18, 20 and 21 footers (that's I've been acquainted with) have a 240 volt male plug but it's not there to run 240 volt appliances. It is split with one leg going to your 120 volt control center or converter-power-center. The other leg would get used just for the roof-top air conditioner if so equipped. I've seen adapters that allow you to plug your 240 volt male plug into a 120 volt, 15 or 20 amp outlet. When used - only one 120 volt circuit is being powered in your RV and the air conditioner shouldn't work at all - unless someone has rewired it. To the converse - my little Toyota Chinook came OEM with a power cord that has a 120 volt, 15 amp male plug. When I want to plug into a 240 volt outlet - I have an adapter that converts that male 120 volt plug into a male 240 volt plug and just utilizes half of the 240 volt source.

If your AC unit works at first ,but 5 minutes later labors and heats up the cord - you might have internal compressor problems. But - if you are using anything else on AC in the RV at the same time your AC unit is running - all on a single 15 amp, 120 volt circuit you are begging for problems.

[douglitas]

thanks for the reply jdemaris. the only thing I had running was the A/C just to test it out in the driveway. Our Seabreeze is 20'. I was thinking to just replace the plug with a straight 110 plug, but after reading your post I will take it to the shop and get their opinion first.

I have no 220 plugs in the house that I can test it with (at least non that I can find). maybe I should stop by an RV park and see what they offer for plugs and then try it out there.

[WME]

What you most likely have is what the RV folks refer to as a 30 AMP plug. The RV parks have power boxes with 15 amp (house hold plug) 30 amp like you have and some of the more modern parks have a 50 amp plug.

Most houses have 15 or 20 amp breakers. So your A/C is pushing a 15 amp hard.

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-power-cords/power-grip-replacement.htm

[Manny V.]

My roof air conditioning does same thing when I plug the motor home power cord to my house front yard oulet. But the problem is not the air conditioning unit or the motor home power cord. But the 15 amps outlet in my house. When I plug my motor home to a 30 amps power in a rv park my air works for hours until a turn it off.

[zero]

.

Sounds like you've got some old or bad wiring in your house. At least in the places where I've wired houses - I have not seen a 15 amp circuit for outlets in new wiring for over 30 years. That includes NY, VT, and MI. 14 gauge wire and 15 amp circuits is usually reserved for house lighting only. Appliance circuits usually get a minimum of 12 gauge wire and 20 amp breakers. The outlet duplex receptacles them selves may be 15 amp prong configuration - but are attached to a 20 amp feed and have 20 amp pass-through. Also, if a 20 amp circuit has a long run, 10 gauge is needed instead of 12 to prevent a large voltage drop. 35 feet is about the limit for a 12 gauge wire on a 20 amp circuit. 10 gauge can extend it to 55 feet with only a 2% voltage drop at 20 amps

[Maineah]

just hooked up shore power and Coleman roof A/C for first time on our 1987 Seabreeze which we've had since jan. Blows cold for 5 min then blows a breaker in the house elec panel. End of cord feels hot to touch. cord coming out of Toyhouse has a 220v male plug plugged into a convertor that has the conventional 3-prong 110 AC plug which I connected to house power. The little door to the power closet on drivers side of Toyhouse says "110 V only"....what could be wrong? the other end of the cord is connected to the breaker box/ power convertor under the sofa.

Someone converted something to 220? and then back with weird plug convertor? anybody else with problems like this? thanks!

It's not a 220 volt plug just looks like it should be there is nothing 220 volts that it will plug into. It is a 30 amp 120 volt RV plug. When you use an adapter on the 30 amp plug it becomes a 15 amp cord the adapters are only rated 15 amps will it carry more probably, will it get hot? yes.. You should have two breakers one 20 amp and the other 15 it may also have a 30 amp main what breaker is it tripping? Try plugging in to a 30 camp ground socket. I would guess if it starts and runs there is a good likely hood that the compressor needs a new start cap. After they have run for a bit the head pressure builds in the compressor and they become harder to restart (draws more current) it would be a cheap thing to try before replacing the unit..

[waiter]

Maineah is correct, 220 volts is not on that plug, if it is, the RV park is wired wrong and will probably blow out every appliance and light bulb plugged into it.

This is a 30 amp plug that you will see at the trusty RV park. Its wired for 110Vac and the plug can safely handle 30 amps.

This is a typical adapter that most of us use. Plug the shore power cord into it, then plug it into a standard wall outlet.. Its probably acceptable for the vast majority of us, and is good for 15 amps


If you want to run your A/C unit, your probably going to need the 30 amp service. If your adapter is getting hot, you might replace it. Also look at the 30 amp plug on the end of your shore power cord. if it looks like its been overheated, you may also consider installing a new plug on the end.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[zero]

I'm working on a big Class A right now that has a NEMA 6-50R plug on it (240 volts, 50 amps).

My 1988 Toyota Mincruiser has a NEMA 5-50R plug that is 120 volts and 50 amps.

The two look very similar but the prongs are slightly different.

[Maineah]

The 6-50r can be either 220 or 120 the 5-50r is 120 volts the larger pins are reversed a 5-50r can not be plugged into a 220 volt outlet. The 6-50r in a motor home is two 120 volt circuits just about any thing unless it's only a few years old had no 220 volt circuits. Some modern huge class A's have 220 volt wiring.

[douglitas]

wow thanks for all the help, folks!

I had it connected to a regular duplex plug in the garage and the breaker that switched was labeled GFI. I had it connected via a 75' 10ga extension cord. I dropped the Toyhouse off at the shop today...we'll keep you posted on the outcomes. thanks again! PS the house is 20 years old and wiring seems to be in good shape.

[douglitas]

our hopes are to visit granddaughter in AZ and park in their driveway and power our A/C from the house...maybe not going to happen?

[linda s]

our hopes are to visit granddaughter in AZ and park in their driveway and power our A/C from the house...maybe not going to happen?

Have your grandaughter check the circuits for the plugs closest to the driveway. At my house that would be my washing machine and that is a 20 amp circuit. Then run the shortest heaviest duty extension cord you can use. Should be enough to run your AC

Linda

[zero]

wow thanks for all the help, folks!

I had it connected to a regular duplex plug in the garage and the breaker that switched was labeled GFI. I had it connected via a 75' 10ga extension cord. I dropped the Toyhouse off at the shop today...we'll keep you posted on the outcomes. thanks again! PS the house is 20 years old and wiring seems to be in good shape.

75 feet is too long for a 10 gauge stranded-copper extension cord if that AC unit really needs 20-25 amps to start. Even if you have modern wiring - with 12 gauge copper (or 10 gauge aluminum) and a 20 amp breaker. If the 12 gauge line from the breaker-box (entrance panel) is 40 feet long (just a guess), and you've added a 75 foot 10 gauge extension cord - you've got a total voltage drop of 4.2% to 6% depending on what that motor's start-surge is. Some AC units spike at over 25 amps for a second.. That's enough loss to cause motor starting problems. If you are sure you're plugged into a 20 amp circuit with 12 gauge copper wire or bigger - try a shorter extension cord.

[zero]

I forgot to factor in the extra loss from the cord on your RV.

[Maineah]

Here is the deal as the voltage drops (any kind of loss) the current climbs long extension cords, adapters and poor connections just makes matters worse because the current draw is all ready high. Very few houses have 30 amp RV outlets so if you want to try and make your A/C work use only the RV cord and an adapter and try to keep your power demand down by running as few things as you can in the MH. If you can find a 20 amp outlet in the house use it, you can tell because one of the slots in the outlet will be a sideways "T" shape. linda s is right though usually a short (25') heavy extension (min of #12) is good enough to run the A/C.

[douglitas]

the A/C starts and cools great for about 5 min..then trips the breaker. Lots of great advice--thank you!. I will check for a 20A plug around the house and see what I can put together as far as a decent extension. I could make my own #8 extension just buying the wire in bulk at Home Depot if it looks to be a long run from the plug.

[zero]

AC units tend to start easier cold (or when they've been off awhile) because pressure is low and starting is easier. Once warmed up and with normal pressure - starting current needs can spike higher. I think you need to plug directly into a good 20 amp circuit somewhere with NO extension cord just to verify the AC unit is OK. Then you can start thinking about making a heavy gauge cord. For a 75 foot cord with 25 amp start-surge - #6 copper has a 1.6% voltage drop and #8 drops 2.1%.. That could still be the "straw that broke the camel's back." A typical RV with a 30 amp cord is 25 feet long with 10 gauge wire. That's 1.3% drop. The circuit in your house if a good one can have 30-40 feet of 12 gauge wire which gives a 2.8%. It all adds up. Thus why running any heavy draw appliance on a extension cord problematic.

[waiter]

Did you install a hard start capacitor on that A/C unit? This might help if the unit is tripping the breaker when the A/C compressor cycles.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[douglitas]

waiter, I just learned of the hard start capacitor...very interesting technology! I'm checking it and other stuff on the Mod your RV site linked above.

[zero]

Worth a try for only $12. But . . seems it ought to be called an "easier start" cap kit. They ALL start pretty hard except for some of newer soft-start units.

http://www.amazon.com/SUPCO-SPP6-Start-Relay-Capacitor/dp/B0002YTLFE

[Maineah]

the A/C starts and cools great for about 5 min..then trips the breaker. Lots of great advice--thank you!. I will check for a 20A plug around the house and see what I can put together as far as a decent extension. I could make my own #8 extension just buying the wire in bulk at Home Depot if it looks to be a long run from the plug.

That's an expensive way to go and heavy. You would need to terminate it on one end with a RV 30 amp outlet to get rid of the adapter and then you would need to know what is available on the other end to provide you with enough current I also doubt you'll be able to get a #8 wire in a 20 amp cord cap.. If there is a camp ground near you ask them if you could plug in your camper in to their 30 amp service and see what happens before spending a lot of money on some thing that might not work any way. Off the top I'm going to say a 50' #8 3 wire cord will cost in the $150 + range not including the cord caps. The problem could well be your A/C and no amount of current will fix it. As I said before if it starts and runs but will not restart the first trick would be a start cap for the A/C unit. I have run mine with a 50' #12 wire not the best plan but it worked and I slept well in my backyard.

[zero]

That's an expensive way to go and heavy. You would need to terminate it on one end with a RV 30 amp outlet to get rid of the adapter and then you would need to know what is available on the other end to provide you with enough current I also doubt you'll be able to get a #8 wire in a 20 amp cord cap.. If there is a camp ground near you ask them if you could plug in your camper in to their 30 amp service and see what happens before spending a lot of money on some thing that might not work any way. Off the top I'm going to say a 50' #8 3 wire cord will cost in the $150 + range not including the cord caps. The problem could well be your A/C and no amount of current will fix it. As I said before if it starts and runs but will not restart the first trick would be a start cap for the A/C unit. I have run mine with a 50' #12 wire not the best plan but it worked and I slept well in my backyard.

I've got a 150 foot extension cord with #6 cable and 120VAC/20 amp ends. Each end has a junction box with a short 12 gauge lead for the male 20 amp plug. I use it for powering electric engine block heaters or air compressors. I certainly wouldn' t of made it just run an air-conditioner. 6 gauge (6/2 UF) is around $1.50 per foot. I just had to wire-up a 20 amp 220 volt deep well pump with #6 UF cable and had one heck of time stuffing the #6 leads into the pressure-switch box. I needed #6 because the well is 150 feet from the house and 200 feet deep (i.e. a 350 foot run).

[zero]

wow thanks for all the help, folks!

I had it connected to a regular duplex plug in the garage and the breaker that switched was labeled GFI. I had it connected via a 75' 10ga extension cord. I dropped the Toyhouse off at the shop today...we'll keep you posted on the outcomes. thanks again! PS the house is 20 years old and wiring seems to be in good shape.

Some info from my Winnebago-Coleman RV book in regard to the rooftop air conditioner. Total wire run from AC unit to main or sub-panel. Source must be rated 20 amps with either a time-delay 20 amp fuse or an HACR type slow-trip circuit breaker (just about all household circuit breakers are rated the equivalent now adays).

Total wire run:

0 to 25 feet - 12 gauge copper or larger.

26 to 75 feet - 10 gauge copper or larger

76 to 100 feet - 8 gauge copper or larger

101 to 160 feet - 6 gauge copper or larger

Note that these lengths are from the AC unit to where ever your household main panel or sub-panel/branch circuit it. I.e. where ever the 12 gauge wire starts from the household breaker.

My old farm house is 80 feet long. I have a 200 amp main "entrance" panel in the basement. 1st floor has two sub-panels - with one at each end of the house. 4/0 aluminum cable to the main panel and 2 gauge aluminum to the each of the indoor sub-panels. I also have a 100 amp panel outdoors that is 150 feet from the house. It is connected with 2/0 USE direct-burial cable. This keeps all circuit runs fairly short. The longest 20 amp circuit in my house has 24 feet of wire and I used 10 gauge copper instead or 12 to keep loss down.