Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 More mention of the 'colorfully' (and mysteriously) named 'Blue Fan Clutch':- "... the blue hub fan clutch has been adjusted using either LandTank's wet method or Tools-r-us' dry method ..." http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/592234-coolant-temperature-very-hot-while-towing-2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 wow so you managed to find one clutch that is serviceable. I don't think anyone's forcing you to read things posted here. However, it is one way to learn things. I do, and am not so insecure as to admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Ive seen the Yosemite Sam method of pouring sawdust into a failing transmission too... doesn't mean you should do it. Some things are just not "user serviceable" this means you shouldn't be doing it not that its impossible. You aren't addressing why the oil leaked burned etc. His "stages" are merely differing amounts of fluid in the clutch. His repair solution is to replace fluid but not addressing what caused the leak or viscosity breakdown. and the fluid itself; where does he get that? why does he not know EXACTLY how much fluid to put in? maybe its because he is draining something that's not meant to be torn down.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Fan_Clutches-b-content.aspx i don't relish posting a competitors information but this is actual information worth reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 "A closed mind is like a closed book; just a block of wood" - Chinese Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Man who run in front of car, often get tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Not bad. So you do have a sense of humor! "All men eat, but Fu Manchu" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 The original post in thread leaves out some important info. What specfic aftermarket clutch was not satisfactory? Brand, LD or HD? What specific Aisin clutch is now being used? The OEM seven-bladed mechanical fan on a Toyota truck pushes 1600 CFM of air at 1000 RPM and 3200 CFM of air at 2000 RPM. That is with the 15% slippage of the fan clutch factored in. Note that Aisin does NOT sell a HD clutch for the Toyota. Only LD that when "on" slips 15-20%. Aisin DOES sell two different clutches. One for standard trans and one for automatic. Same used in cars and trucks and all AISIN lists are light-duty. LD clutchs tend to run fans at 70-75% engine speed, whereas HD clutches run 85-90% engine speed are are rarely found on fans with tiny pitches like Toyota has. Toyota trucks only have a 1 3/4" fan-blade pitch. My Ford F250 diesel has a 3" pitch. There are several companies that sell bolt-on electric fan kits for Toyota trucks. They have adjustable thermostats and AC relays and manual override switches. E.g. a Black Magic kit # 31148 comes with an eight bladed 15" electric fan that pushes 3000 CFM when on full. Draws 20 amps at 13 volts DC. Has an install footprint of 18" X 16" X 4 1/2". Note it does not push as much as the stock Toyota fan when the Toyota runs at 2000 RPM. There are also dual fan kits for Toyota trucks and they push less air then the single fan kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Not bad. So you do have a sense of humor! "All men eat, but Fu Manchu" That sounds almost as bad as what my beer-drinking, guitar-stumming dad told my brother when he came home from MIT with his nose up in the air. My brother told my dad he was uneducated and "ignornant" and did not even know what "Pi R squared" meant. My dad gave him a silly look and said - "no Bob, you've got it all wrong." "Cake are square and pie are round." My brother was ticked off over that till the day he died. I thought it was funny as h*ll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 ... and the fluid itself; where does he get that? Apparently available (or was) as near as your local Toyota Dealership. Confirming the picture* in the other link. "The only reference to this stuff that the Toyota parts jock could find, was a TSB from 1975 specifying the fill procedure for the clutches of that year, which evidently arrived empty. The 3,000 Cst. was for all Toyotas except for the Celica, which got 6,000 Cst. The 10,000 Cst. was not assigned an application by the TSB. He guessed maybe the Land Cruiser but didn't really know. Anyway, the part numbers are 08816-03001, 08816-06001, and 08816-10001, respectively." http://www.nichols.nu/tip482.htm * http://neuralfibre.com/paul/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/p3230009.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 It would appear that the fan couplings of at least some Mercedes Benz models can be 'serviced'. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/195595-refill-viscous-fan-clutch-pictures.html And BMWs:- http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-6-7-8-series-technical-forum/512843-how-test-visco-fan-clutch.html Seems as though Toyota is the #1 source for the silicone fluids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I find it difficult to understand why somebody would want to go through the bother of trying different fluids in their fan clutch. The stock Toyota fan pushes 3200 CFM @ 2000 RPM and seems plenty adequate for even the biggest motorhomes. That being known - seems fair to deduce that when a Toyota RV is having cooling problems - something is not working AS designed . . rather then the truck needing a NEW design. If the fan clutch is suspect - an optical tachometer pointed at a hot fan would immediatley tell you if it's doing its job or not. If the fan is turning near engine RPMs, then it's time to move on to some other cause. Usually radiator coolant flow. I must disclose I have little experience driving a heavily loaded 21 foot Toyota RV on hot summer days. I have however used Toyota 1 ton dually box-trucks many times with auto-trans and 2.4 engine. An auto trans model has more cooling issues then a standard trans and none I drove had any heating problems even climbing the steep roads around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 For some people, 'because they can' is enough reason. Not saying it makes sense, but reading about it can be interesting, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 the only fan clutch i ever replaced was a 20 r wagen it froze up and roared like mad at cold temptes and the eng would not warm up at all. was froze solid all oil leaked out. and yes all i have seen have a blue hub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Now I will enlighten you all on the newest generation of cooling tech which actually talks to a computer and regulates fan speed based on engine needs not just heat expansion of a spring.. Called cool logic...But these drives only benefit highly computerized and large heavy diesel and automotive applications. Sounds rather like a development of what Sachs has been offering since 1999, if you believe Horton. Directly Controlled Viscous Fan Drive After the first electromagnetically controlled viscous fan drives were introduced to European standard series production by Sachs in 1999, the company has been putting its expertise into developing a convincing new product. Based on a PWM signal (pulse-width-modulation) from the engine management, the directly controlled fan drive adjusts its speed to meet the engine cooling requirements. The integrated speed monitoring system ensures a constant fan speed that is largely independent of the engine speed. http://www.industrysearch.com.au/Horton-Viscous-Air-sensing-Fan-Drive-and-Directly-Controlled-Viscous-Fan-Drive/p/51050 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I like simple when possible. The old flex fans worked pretty well in some rigs. No clutch. Just fan blades designed to flatten out at high RPMs so less drag. Worked very well in vehicles that had good passive air flow and only needed the fan to work at low RPMs. No temp sensing though. If somebody really had a desire for more fan on a Toyota - seems a different fan blade could do a lot. The OEM Toyota fan has pitched fan blades that are only 4" long each. That on a fan that is 15" in diameter. Lots of room for more fan-blade action without changing the OD of the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 A fan blade moves 90% of its air flow with the last 20% of the blade. The old style flex fans would actually limit air flow at hwy speeds, when the blades flattened out they blocked airflow when in a shroud. WME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I like simple too. Toyota spec'd a 190F thermostat. To me that indicates that they wanted the engine to reach 190F as quickly as possible. Simple to me would be to install a thermostatically controlled electric fan set to come 'On' at 200F(210F?) and 'Off' at 190F(185F?). As said before, I don't see any point in any energy being wasted on the fan moving any air until the coolant reaches 190F. Or just make sure that everything installed at the Factory is working as it should be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 A fan blade moves 90% of its air flow with the last 20% of the blade. The old style flex fans would actually limit air flow at hwy speeds, when the blades flattened out they blocked airflow when in a shroud. WME Yes and since the OEM Toyota fans are 15" diameter with 4" long blades with 1 3/4" pitch - a fan with more CFM would be an easy fit. Increase the blade length and/or pitch. Apparently not needed though. Datsun, Nissan, et. al. (from Asia) have had a knack of using what is needed and not going overboard. I know that drove Ford engineers nuts during the 70s. Many American autos had some parts greatly overbuilt and other parts underbuilt. The Japanse stuff tended to be consistent with using what was needed. Not much more and rarely less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I like simple too. Toyota spec'd a 190F thermostat. To me that indicates that they wanted the engine to reach 190F as quickly as possible. Simple to me would be to install a thermostatically controlled electric fan set to come 'On' at 200F(210F?) and 'Off' at 190F(185F?). As said before, I don't see any point in any energy being wasted on the fan moving any air until the coolant reaches 190F. Or just make sure that everything installed at the Factory is working as it should be! Heavy duty truck fan clutches are usually designed to start engaging at 30 degrees below what the coolant thermostat area temp is. My Ford diesel has a 210 degree F thermostat and the clutch is set to engage at 180 degrees F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Curious. I'll have to try to wrap my head around why you want to blow air across a radiator with no water flowing through it! Cool other underhood components? I used to have a car where the cab heater fan wouldn't come on until there was hot water flowing through the heater core. Was nice to not be blasted by cold air when it was already -20 degrees. I think it might have been a 1981 Buick LeSabre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Curious. I'll have to try to wrap my head around why you want to blow air across a radiator with no water flowing through it! Cool other underhood components? I used to have a car where the cab heater fan wouldn't come on until there was hot water flowing through the heater core. Was nice to not be blasted by cold air when it was already -20 degrees. I think it might have been a 1981 Buick LeSabre. There is always coolant flow regardless if the thermostat is open or closed. That's done by the thermostat bypass. My Ford specs do not mention exacty what part of the radiator is 30 degees less and the can vary a lot between the input and outlet. Most of the GMs 70s-90s used air blending doors with full coolant flow through the core all the time. Unlike many Fords that used a coolant-flow valve that altered actual flow through the core. Seems in a GM blending-door setup - having a thermostat in there to limit when the blower worked would be a simple setup. I never had one but I never owned any fancy GMs either. Just cheap cars or trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Curious. I'll have to try to wrap my head around why you want to blow air across a radiator with no water flowing through it! Cool other underhood components? I took a look in the Hayden truck parts catalog. For fan clutches they pretty much say the same as in my Ford F250 manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 ... I never owned any fancy GMs either. Just cheap cars or trucks. Company car. The only new cars I've ever 'owned'. The newest I currently own is actually from this Millenium. 2001! Most still have cassette players, though none with 8-Track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Company car. The only new cars I've ever 'owned'. The newest I currently own is actually from this Millenium. 2001! Most still have cassette players, though none with 8-Track. I used to really like 8 track decks. I was kind of disgusted when cassete decks took their place. Oh well. I still have an Edison wax cylinder player and recorder here but not for a car. To erase the "soundtrack" you put it on a little lathe and cut the OD of the wax off. That's how the original Dictiphone worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Enjoyed the merc link, I'm with the guy that asks the oh so ridiculous question," but won't the oil just leak back out whatever hole it did before? " This is a temporary fix at best but ok you win. I yield. Our drives at work are non servicable and that is the main reason, sanity. Personally I would just buy new but then again I add oil to my slow burn engine on each trip rather than go to the trouble of fixing the leak. This is a bit opposite in that you would be painstakingly tearing down something you know to leak or burn in order to add oil .. But ok i guess you get the special olympics medal in this argument. Now I would go on to say cars can't boat, but a am sure you would show me a can of super leak fix and link to their commercial or a link to the old GM boat car. I think I am starting to get your sense of humor too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Not sure about GM, but Chrysler and Healey (as in Austin Healey) used to make boats. http://www.chryslercrew.com/ http://classicshowcase.com/index.php/inventory/make/Austin%20Healey Takes more than a can of snake oil though. And your favorite Olympic Event would be skating? EDIT: Oh, look what I just found! http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/chevrolet-corvette-turns-speedboat-1-7-million-price-163902457.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Can't yahoo, no account sorry. I did thoroughly enjoy reading the posts of all the failed attempts to refurbish drives on Toyota blues etc. seems not one person got one to work correctly per stock specifications , or got the correct amount of fluid or ended up with a drive that wasnt stuck on all the time and many cursed the expense and bought new; these are what you are referencing to "because they can". I also saw people warning about fan blades cracking and becoming projectiles... And packing grease in them. So I guess by getting sucked into the black hole of tmh.org this time I would say I entered the special shooting event and shot myself. But I do have one for you... Nothing can escape the black hole... Nothing . Be a star, not the black hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I did thoroughly enjoy reading the posts ... Glad you enjoyed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Now I would go on to say cars can't boat, but a am sure you would show me a can of super leak fix and link to their commercial or a link to the old GM boat car. Farmer next to me has a 1960s German boat-car in his barn he hopes to fix up some day. Has a little Triumph engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 The Amphicar was too obvious! Lousy as a car, lousy as a boat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 The Amphicar was too obvious! Lousy as a car, lousy as a boat! It was a fun idea but I never saw one that didn't have rust holes in it and leaked something awful. But I live in the northeast. Might have been a fun car where steel didn't rust out. The one my neighbor has is rusted something awful. Makes me think of the old VW bug commercials showing a new Beetle landing in a pond and floating no problem. I personally never tried it and wonder how it would really work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 My Toy doesn't run hot at high speeds, it's when I'm going up a steep hill in first / second gear. At that time engine speeds are high , but low road speeds. When I had much larger radiator and water pump put on my 71 Dodge, 318 V8, 2 barrel carb, A-727 auto trans, 3.55 rear end, van it still ran too hot at 75 to "no comment" MPH in the valley. The shop then put on the 6 blade deeply valanced fiberglass fan and WOW instant huge improvment!! If the blades are flatting out at speed how did that work so well, maybe not all the fans are made the same. When I quit racing and used her to tow an loaded 18' OB boat no problems either. I think the cooling system made by Toyota on this truck wasn't designed for the way we are using these RV's and doesn't work well in hot weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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