Questions for the purposes of designing an energy independent Toyota motorhome please!

[Stevo]

I need to understand how much energy certain appliances use for the purposes of planning the most efficient energy independent Toyota motorhome intended for off-the-grid living. I'm just starting to learn this stuff so please be patient as I ask lots of dumb questions.

For starters, I just bought this Edgestar 80 quart 12 Volt fridge/freezer ($278 shipped to my door) here http://tinyurl.com/b4zgfjw after reading a lot of this looooong thread here http://tinyurl.com/a7dp3ru that started 4 years ago. Biggest complaint with the Edgestars is that many were shipped with a disconnected wire that won't let them work on the 12 volt side. This is a 3 minute fix that involves unscrewing a panel and plugging the wire in place. The other problem is that the DC cord that comes with it is junk and should be replaced with a better one.

Here are a couple of questions to start please...

1) According to the specs, the Edgestar draws 80 watts/1 amp DC but I need to know how much it spikes when it starts. To determine that spike for DC, do I need any additional cables or connectors for this multimeter http://www.harborfre...eter-37772.html that don't already come with it?

2) I have a little 16" x 27" Uni-Solar solar panel (MBC-262) I've never used that came with a boat I used to have. The specs (see attached images) say the panel puts out 11 Watts peak power. Could this panel be used to charge the battery I power the fridge with in my home for this test (The fridge compressor only turns on a few times a day with it being empty)?

Thanks!

Steve

[Maineah]

The power ratings are a little vague 80 watts at 12 volts is close to 7 amps but at 120 volts like .6 The meter is fine for what you want to do. 11 watts is not much, that is good enough to keep a battery up with little use but it won.t keep up with the fridge use If the fridge runs a max of 1 hour on a given day 80 watts? even on a bright sunny day I doubt you'll see 50-60 watts from the panel during sun light they are rated in a perfect world. The start current for motors are around 220% over normal draw but it does not last but a second till the motor is up to speed.

[stamar]

the most energy efficient refrigerator for off grid living is...... propane.

[Totem]

^ what he said. a propane fridge could run for a month or more on a full tank with little to nothing else being used off of the gas.

add a wood burning small stove into your rig for heat and cooking and you are set; just need wood and occasional propane fill up.

[zero]

the most energy efficient refrigerator for off grid living is...... propane.

How do you define "effcient?" If you are cooling with propane, you are buying a petroleum byproduct to burn (i.e. propane). I assume you use fuel to drive somewhere to buy it (more fuel used). Even more used in the production of it.

A solar fridge uses the sun, a battery, and only "burns" fuel when it's been dark for maybe three days straight or more.

I cannot see by any measure I can conjure up - how you and Totem find propane to be more efficient. Maybe it is more convenient for you - but that is a different thing.

An RV sized DC fridge can run three days at 70 degrees F from a single 115 amp-hour battery (.e.g. a BCI type 29 like Walmart sells).

An older propane fridge can use a pound per day doing the same. Some newer ones use 3/4 pound per day.

In addition, in many states it is illegal to drive with the propane gas tank turned "on." That then requires using the propane fridge in the highly inefficient DC mode.

I can one a 5.8 cubic foot DC refrigerator, in the fairly dark state of New York, on a single 120 watt solar panel. I've done it all summer with no needs for alternative charging. This is a fridge that measures 37" X 26" X 35". On a 70 degree F day it uses 100 watt-hours. On a 90 degree F day it uses 240 watt-hours. A 120 watt panel easily exceeds that and some days makes 700 watt-hours. A 120 watt panel only needs two hours of bright sun to power this DC fridge for 24 hours. Note also that a 60 watt panel can make near 400 watt-hours a day in a sunny area.

[zero]

I need to understand how much energy certain appliances use for the purposes of planning the most efficient energy independent Toyota motorhome intended for off-the-grid living. Thanks!

The refrigerator you mention runs with a current draw of 6-7 amps at 12 volts and probably spikes at about double that . . i.e. 12-13 amps at the first surge-start. Some companies now are using slow-start motors that don't spike like that but I don't know if the Edgestar has it. Seems if it did, they would mention it. You'd have to know exactly what model Danfoss compressor it has.

The little el-cheapo Harbor Freight multimeter can read up to 10 amps and is not forgiving. It uses a quick-blow fuse. If something surges to 12-13 amps - it will blow the fuse. No extra leads needed. You just unplug the red positive voltage lead and plug it into the 10 amp port - for taking amp readings. For a few bucks more you can buy the next step bigger HF meter that allows testing up to 20 amps.

I got looking at the specs for the refrigerator you bought and they don't give much about actual daily usage. Many RV places are converting RVs to DC electric and doing away with propane. So, going by the specs of a similar size DC refrigerator very popular in Volkswagen Westys - I'll guess your's will run at 22 amp-hours per day when it's 70 degrees F. A 60 watt solar panel in a sunny area will make around 22 amp hours a day (same as the fridge uses). A 120 watt panel would be the minimum to use in my opinion. A 120 watt panel can make 42 amp-hours on a good day and 22 amp-hours on a fairly bad day.

I've got DC refrigeration in just about all my RVs now, and also in a 2nd home I have. One RV I have has an AC fridge that runs off an inverter and it is almost as efficient as the DC setups and is a cheap chain-store type dorm fridge. I did however add a lot of insulation to it. That's a nice bonus with electric refrigerators. You can sometimes double their efficiency by simply adding insulation. You can't do that so well in a gas fridge since it has a verital venting that cannot be sealed up.

Overall - nothing that I know of is more efficient then a well insulated DC refrigerator. It is also a lot nice to travel and "spot" camp with. No screwing around trying to make an RV level so the propane fridge can work properly. DC fridges don't care how cockeyed they are. Convenience is a different matter. If you stay parked a lot and propane is easy to get and cheap - it might be your preference. It is never cheap on the east coast.

[stamar]

What does propane cost on the east coast? Its 2.50 retail here and there are easy ways to get it wholesale.

A wasn't necessarily thinking of a dc friidge like an electric compressor model I was thinking of a three way fridge like most toy homes have.

Ammonium. And its totally true the need to light the propane means I never use it too inconvenient. For me one day I might get even more solar and a dc fridge.

But for less than 20 bucks propane lasts a long time. It has an investment of zero whereas a electric fridge and solar is pretty expensive. Batteries etc

I'm not sure the op has a real 12 volt fridge

[stamar]

Ya actually my fridge was on for 3 weeks straight and didn't even use enough to move the propane guage. Its a dometic rm461. I don't. Understand how it could even be using a pound a month I. Have to think that's a full size refrigerator from a class a.

I actually have never had to refill my propane tank in three months, some of which I was cooking every day.

Propane is perfect for camping. One tank should cover an entire summer of every day use.

Its true though in the event I was replacing the fridge based on new retail prices I would buy a dc fridge so I could leave it on permanently, I prefer those. Id buy it its own solar panel and another battery

[zero]

What does propane cost on the east coast? Its 2.50 retail here and there are easy ways to get it wholesale.

A wasn't necessarily thinking of a dc friidge like an electric compressor model I was thinking of a three way fridge like most toy homes have.

Ammonium. And its totally true the need to light the propane means I never use it too inconvenient. For me one day I might get even more solar and a dc fridge.

But for less than 20 bucks propane lasts a long time. It has an investment of zero whereas a electric fridge and solar is pretty expensive. Batteries etc

I'm not sure the op has a real 12 volt fridge

The last delivery of propane I got a 4-5 months ago to get my 1000 gallon tank filled it was $3.29 per gallon. If I was getting only a small tank filled it would of been $3.79 per gallon. Last year it was near $4 per gallon. Propane if figured by dollar per BTU has been more expensive then gasoline and diesel for many years in my area. Natural gas is the only bargain - for those that can get it.

A propane fridge (when run with electricity) is very inefficient - but that's not what the subject has been here. The guy posted with questions about his new DC fridge.

[zero]

Ya actually my fridge was on for 3 weeks straight and didn't even use enough to move the propane guage. Its a dometic rm461. I don't. Understand how it could even be using a pound a month I. Have to think that's a full size refrigerator from a class a.

I actually have never had to refill my propane tank in three months, some of which I was cooking every day.

Propane is perfect for camping. One tank should cover an entire summer of every day use.

I've got some retired friends in Flordia that come here (to NY) every summer and camp on some farmland they still own for 2 months. They use a 6 cubic foot RV propane fridge that I lend them. They go through a 20 lb. tank every 2-3 weeks to run just the fridge. That's in late July, August when temps tend to be 75-95 F. Servel (part of Dometic now) claim that their newest propane fridge is the most efficient they have ever made. It's a 6 cubic foot fridge and rated to use 1.1 lbs. of propane per day at 77 degrees F. That's 16 days on a typical 20 lb. tank.

[Maineah]

Efficiency in terms of dollars still is propane as far as fridges are concerned. Even a small DC fridge is $1800 then you either have to park next to power or install 200 watts of solar another $300+ batteries. I know I can keep my stuff cool on propane on less then 10# of propane all summer or around $8 so if I go camping for the next 10 years I'll be 77 and have spent $80 to cool my grub.

[Eve "n" Stephen]

Sundanzer makes a nice small 12V 4.7 Cu. Ft. model for $972 +shipping

• 
  

  Voltage: 10-31VDC

  
  

• 
  

  Average Energy Use: 70°F - 460 Whrs/day, 38 AH/day; 90°F - 720 Whrs/day, 60 AH/day; 110°F - 1050 Whrs/day, 88 AH/day

  
  

• 
  

  Gross Capacity: 134 L / 4.7 cubic feet; Refrigerator: 115 L / 4 cubic feet; Freezer: 19 L / .7 cubic feet

  
  

• 
  

  Exterior Dimensions (WxDxH): 23.5x26x33in

  
  

Novakool has models from 4.3-7.5 cu. ft. $920-$1232

Look at

Backwoods Solar Electric for a variety of propane and electric refrigerators and freezers designed for solar systems. They are knowledgeable and good people.

Steve

[stamar]

No I froze ice cream for three weeks using less than a quarter gallon with is two pounds.... full blast.

Ambient tempperature is like 60. Much less than two pounds probably less than one pound. That's real life. I couldn't waste enough propane to use a gallon a month which is 8 pounds.... or 250 here 350 there...... its dirt cheap. Cooking two meals a day and coffee and running the furnace and the fridge.

Its pretty effecient... your usage is something different than a toyhome set up we all have the same experience.

A 12 volt fridge I would have if money were no object because its better. I would even get an ac fridge and a 500 watt panel before id get another propane friidge actually. That would be a smart investment because then the only breakable part of the system costs 80 bucks new at walmarrt and the inverter and solar panel are ready for a new one

[stamar]

I had a job last year driving a minivan converted ice cream truck.

It used just the large inverter and a small fridge from kmart.

Cheapest parts available to start the business up basically. But moving that over to an rv takes investment in batteriies and solar.

Its all dollars and cents which one works out cheaper to start with. However as soon as the fridge breaks that is the cheapest way to go. A dc or a propane fridge is expensive to replace. An ac fridge you might even find free on craigslist.

[Stevo]

Thats interesting that your AC fridge is "almost as efficient" as your DC fridges because I thought using a DC to AC inverter was the most inefficient way to power stuff based on a discussion on another thread about powering a laptop where you were saying that how much more efficient it is to power DC stuff with DC instead of using the AC thing that comes with it and then using an inverter. How is it possible then that the AC fridge with an inverter was "almost as efficient" as your DC fridges? Please understand that I'm not trying to argue with you but just wanting to understand this stuff. And if thats the case, then I might return this DC fridge and buy an AC fridge and inverter.

One RV I have has an AC fridge that runs off an inverter and it is almost as efficient as the DC setups and is a cheap chain-store type dorm fridge. I did however add a lot of insulation to it. That's a nice bonus with electric refrigerators. You can sometimes double their efficiency by simply adding insulation. You can't do that so well in a gas fridge since it has a verital venting that cannot be sealed up.

[stamar]

I didn't say it was as effecient ii actually have no idea and don't care at the moment

Where an ac fridge is much more efficient is in dollars it costs like 80 bucks. Actually I think they cost 60 bucks now.

I know I explained it clearly but ill say it again and just read the sentences below this one three times.

Whatever it costs to buy the different kinds of friges for your rv in the beginning the cheapest way is going to be an ac fridge as soon as the frig breaks because replacing that part is 60 bucks and the solar and inverter don't wear out much.

[stamar]

I'm sure I didn't compare its effeciency actually. If it uses twice as much power its still probably a better buy though. Get twice as many batteries and panels.

Then when it breaks you don't start over... and you have a bad behind electrical toyhome as opposed to just a bad behind fridge....

[Derek up North]

I didn't say it was as effecient ii actually have no idea and don't care at the moment

I know I explained it clearly but ill say it again and just read the sentences below this one three times.

He wasn't actually responding to anything you'd posted. Perhaps you might want to read things 3 times. Supposedly it works.

[Bob C]

My MH had a dorm refrigerator in it when I bought it. It ran great on 120 volt but when I tried using it with inverter, the frig would not run. I even borrowed a 1500 watt (3000 watt peak) inverter and the frig would not run. Maybe I did not have a pure sine wave inverter. I was lucky and bought a 12 volt marine refrigerator from a guy that was scraping out a medium size Lake Michigan sailboat. It is about 4 cu ft and runs great. I have a series 29 battery and the frig will run about 2 days without a recharge. For my wife and I, it is perfect because we do a lot of moving around (driving) when on vacation.

[waiter]

Bob,

The 1500 watt inverter may not have enough oomph to start the compressor. A similar experiment, I tried running my 5000 btu A/C on my 1500 watt inverter, it will run the fan, but trips out when it tries to start the compressor. Not sure if a pure sine wave would help (probably wouldn't hurt).

The small cheap dorm frig ($60) are a good alternative to a propane ($700) depending on your life style and how you use the Toyhouse.

I'd be curious if someone on the group had a larger inverter that they could try and run a small frig and report back to us.

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Totem]

To me the only thing that would justify 300 to 500 lbs of batteries, inverters and gear would be stuff that supports air conditioning. If you are so concerned with preserving food to the point of adding that much weight you are ignoring the purpose and innovation of the original design and most assuredly won't be getting the mpg that it could. Nothing is lighter cheaper or better than propane fridges. But hey feel free to put 100000 watts of solar 5 batteries and a 9000 watt inverter. It will make being on the side of the road much more comfortable.

[zero]

Bob,

The 1500 watt inverter may not have enough oomph to start the compressor. A similar experiment, I tried running my 5000 btu A/C on my 1500 watt inverter, it will run the fan, but trips out when it tries to start the compressor. Not sure if a pure sine wave would help (probably wouldn't hurt).

The small cheap dorm frig ($60) are a good alternative to a propane ($700) depending on your life style and how you use the Toyhouse.

I'd be curious if someone on the group had a larger inverter that they could try and run a small frig and report back to us.

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

The problem is not about "true sine wave" verusus "modified sine wave." Nor is it always about the rated max wattage of the inverter. Often it's about the brand and make of the inverter. Some are just plain awful. I have one RV with an AC fridge and it works great with a 1500 watt AIMs modified wave inverter (cheapest AIMS sells in 1500 watts). I first tried using the same fridge on a 4000 watt Vector (Black & Decker) and it would not run the fridge. It's kept tripping it's "trouble sensor" and shutting down. I called a supplier I buy a lot of inverters from and he laughed a little. He told me it's a problem with the new "combination trip" many new inverters are using. They can trip due to electrical imcompatibility, low voltage, heat, high amperage, etc. and when they do - you have no idea what the specific problem is. He told me he sells a lot of the cheap AIMs 1000 and 1500 watt mod-wave inverters to hot dog and ice cream vendors who use refrigerators. So I got one a few years ago and it's worked flawlessly with a fairly large AC refrigerator (6 cubic foot). I monitored overall amp draw when testing in my 65 degree shop. It ran for three days hooked to a Walmart type 29 battery and drew - on average, 2.4 amps per hour. After I installed in my RV and added 1" of polysi insulation - it uses less then 2 amps per hour on 12 volts.

[zero]

To me the only thing that would justify 300 to 500 lbs of batteries, inverters and gear would be stuff that supports air conditioning. If you are so concerned with preserving food to the point of adding that much weight you are ignoring the purpose and innovation of the original design and most assuredly won't be getting the mpg that it could. Nothing is lighter cheaper or better than propane fridges. But hey feel free to put 100000 watts of solar 5 batteries and a 9000 watt inverter. It will make being on the side of the road much more comfortable.

Using a little hyperbole for a weak argument?? An large RV electric fridge will draw around 2 amps per hour @ 12 volts at 70 degrees F. If you have just one BCI type 29 battery - it can run that fridge for 60 hours before any recharge is needed. A single 120 watt solar panel is all that is needed to run it (when the sun shines). If an AC fridge is chosen instead of an DC unit - a 1200 watt inverter can work just fine. Your argument claiming 10,000 watts of solar, 5 batteries, 9000 watt inverter is just plain ridiculous. If you disagree - why not use some accurate data? And your other statements about weight and prices? Propane refrigeragtors are just about always more expensive then DC electric units and also heavier. A new Dometic 4.7 gas fridge weighs 130 lbs. and costs $1100-$1200 new. A new 4.7 cubic inch DC fridge like a Sundanzer or Vitrifrigo is $900 new and weighs 75 lbs. I'll add that small AC refrigerators are dirt cheap. Often $75 brand new and $20 at yard sales.

Note that many RV owners have batteries and solar panels already.

DC electric refrigerators in RVs, big truck cabs, boats, etc. are becoming mainstream. Some run on 1 amp per hour at 12 volts which is impressive. Read some data on "Truckfridge" or "Vitrifrigo."

http://www.vfsales.net/

http://www.truckfridge.com/tf65.html

[Totem]

lets put one (ANY one) 12 volt fridge in July to your test; the only thing that ends up being weak I think will be your test results in 80F + air temps with 100% humidity. And you only get one group 29. And you are not allowed to assume 100% LED toyhome. I had been referring to dorm fridges not 12 volt but I'll bet lunch you'd have a dead battery with normal use without a genset or solar etc. (no input charge voltage to be clear.) My argument isn't weak in the context of summer....

[zero]

lets put one (ANY one) 12 volt fridge in July to your test; the only thing that ends up being weak I think will be your test results in 80F + air temps with 100% humidity. And you only get one group 29. And you are not allowed to assume 100% LED toyhome. I had been referring to dorm fridges not 12 volt but I'll bet lunch you'd have a dead battery with normal use without a genset or solar etc. (no input charge voltage to be clear.) My argument isn't weak in the context of summer....

The air temp where the fridge is - in part - determines the power draw. The amount of insulation around the fridge also determines how often it has to run. Summer or winter - some RVs are heated inside where the fridge is. Put a fridge outside in the winter and it uses nothing.

The person who started this post was specifically asking about a 12 volt DC compressor-type refrigerator and I gave info specific to that. You and Stamar chimed in about propane being the "most efficient" which is not true. You also said a propane fridge is cheaper and lighter - also not true.

In the context of summer and using a refrigerator outside ? I do it every summer and so does my friend that comes up from Florida and camps for two months. He was much happier with my big dc Sundanzer fridge that I lent him. But after he put a bullet hole in it - I took it back and he now uses propane. He uses a 20 lb. bottle about every two weeks in August. He ran the big chest DC fridge with one battery and two 80 watt solar panels with no issues. That fridge cost me $900 and it was brand new when I let him use it. He got chasing a woodchuck with a .22 rifle and shot my brand new fridge! I was pissed and he was pretty embarrased. Things happen I guess. My 5.8 cubic foot 12 -24 volt DC Sundanzer fridge now sits outside in a shed in the Adirondacks. Shaded yes but still near as hot as whatever the outside air temps are. It will use, on average around 3 amps per hour for a full summer day with highs usually in the 80s but sometimes high 90s. A Walmart type # 29 would run it for a day and half with no recharge. But I always have some sort of recharge avaialble. For an RV that gets driven every day or so - recharging is done by the engine's alternator. If not driven -then obviously some other means is needed or the battery gets ruined. A pair of120 watt panels would do it during the summer for a big 6 or 8 cubic foot non-RV fridge - even in the New York Adirondack mountains where my fridge is. I've been using it every summer, all summer for five years now. A smaller RV sized DC fridge can draw as little as 1 amp per hour at 70 degrees and 2 amps per hour at 90 degrees F. Add some insulation and it gets better.

You mentioned earlier about using a Toyota motorhome as designed. That's fine but obvisouly none were designed to be lived in full-time, off-grid. If that's what someone wants to do some mods need to be made.

I have lived totally off-grid full-time as have some of my neighbors. In this dark area of NY, there will always be a month or so with virtually NO sunlight that will power a solar panel (winter and early spring). So some other "fuel" must be used if a person wants heat, electricity, etc. Propane is the most convenient way to do it. Not the most efficient way to do it. The two off-grid users near me both got rid of their propane refrigerators and both now have electric. Their backup electric generators however DO run on propane and that is what they use to recharge their battery banks during dark months. If somebody truly wanted the best efficiency - an electric generator on wood-gas would be the way to go. I have one. A lot of hassle to build, get going, etc. but if a person has wood and patience - it's the way to go.

By the way - I have a Chevy RV with two T-105 six volt batteries, a large AC fridge and a 1500 watt inverter to run it. I've left it for a day and half in the middle of the summer with no recharge and no issues. That was with the fridge going and two AC fans blowing. My two 6 volt Deka T-105 clones have the same power as two 12 volt type 29 batteries from Walmart. I particulary like having the ability to run fans since we put our dog in there when we park, go somewhere and have to leave him behind on a hot day. Note I said it ran for a day and half and was still going. Not dead yet. I never ran it longer then that without a recharge. I don't want to. It just shortens the lives of the batteries.

[Maineah]

I forgot my propane camper fridge was on it was still running 21/2 weeks later.

[Totem]

propane is the most efficient and lightest if you aren't going to bolt 300 lbs of panels, controllers, wire, insulation, generator, reserve capacity batter(ies) etc.

If you are just going to use the fridge and run your alternator though I might agree with you.

[zero]

propane is the most efficient and lightest if you aren't going to bolt 300 lbs of panels, controllers, wire, insulation, generator, reserve capacity batter(ies) etc.

If you are just going to use the fridge and run your alternator though I might agree with you.

if someone is using and RV for travelling and camping (a mix of both) a DC fridge setup with all the needed things to run it can be just as light as a propane setup. In fact, if refrigeration is the only "luxury needed" - the DC setup is a lot lighter then a propane setup. No propane gas tank needed, no chimney needed, and the DC fridge itself is lighter then an equal sized propane unit.

Last I checked, just about any modern RV (built within the past 20 years) already has a house battery and means to charge it. If somebody wanted to add a DC fridge - no other equipment would need to be added. Why do you suppose the sleeper cabs in all those Mack and Freightliner over-the-road trucks have DC refrigerators and not propane? A small RV fridge that only draws 1-2 amps @ 12 volts per hour takes very little to run.

I'm sure many prefer propane and just as many prefer electric. If you like propane that is fine but why inflate the argument with negative fiction when discussing DC? They both have their positives and negatives - just as anything does that I can think of.

[Totem]

yeah but can it make ice keep ice cream from melting and chill 5 cases of beer? mine can.

[Boots]

I need to understand how much energy certain appliances use for the purposes of planning the most efficient energy independent Toyota motorhome intended for off-the-grid living. I'm just starting to learn this stuff so please be patient as I ask lots of dumb questions.

For starters, I just bought this Edgestar 80 quart 12 Volt fridge/freezer ($278 shipped to my door) here http://tinyurl.com/b4zgfjw after reading a lot of this looooong thread here http://tinyurl.com/a7dp3ru that started 4 years ago. Biggest complaint with the Edgestars is that many were shipped with a disconnected wire that won't let them work on the 12 volt side. This is a 3 minute fix that involves unscrewing a panel and plugging the wire in place. The other problem is that the DC cord that comes with it is junk and should be replaced with a better one.

Here are a couple of questions to start please...

1) According to the specs, the Edgestar draws 80 watts/1 amp DC but I need to know how much it spikes when it starts. To determine that spike for DC, do I need any additional cables or connectors for this multimeter http://www.harborfre...eter-37772.html that don't already come with it?

2) I have a little 16" x 27" Uni-Solar solar panel (MBC-262) I've never used that came with a boat I used to have. The specs (see attached images) say the panel puts out 11 Watts peak power. Could this panel be used to charge the battery I power the fridge with in my home for this test (The fridge compressor only turns on a few times a day with it being empty)?

Thanks!

Steve

Hi Steve,

I don't get it, you said 80 Watts (@12 volts) / 1 amp - the math doesn't work at a theoretical level... 80watts/12 volts equals 6.7 amps, thats a long way from 1 amp.

[Boots]

^ what he said. a propane fridge could run for a month or more on a full tank with little to nothing else being used off of the gas.

add a wood burning small stove into your rig for heat and cooking and you are set; just need wood and occasional propane fill up.

I have seen two RV's burn to the ground, using wood stoves, three people dead. Is that your idea of roughing it?

Brian

[Stevo]

He wasn't actually responding to anything you'd posted. Perhaps you might want to read things 3 times. Supposedly it works.

Thank you!

[Stevo]

I don't know those things which is why I started this thread. I only went by what it said in the "Specifications" on this page http://tinyurl.com/au3tgtu so please check it out and tell me whats wrong.

Hi Steve,

I don't get it, you said 80 Watts (@12 volts) / 1 amp - the math doesn't work at a theoretical level... 80watts/12 volts equals 6.7 amps, thats a long way from 1 amp.

[Maineah]

I thought I posted once.What didn't you understand with the answer? If it's truly 80 watts I highly doubt your 11 watt solar panel will be enough to keep up all by it's self. The problem lies with the conversion 80 watts at 120 volts is not much .6 amps but when the voltage is reduced to 12 volts it becomes 6.7 amps and that is a pretty good hit. The way they listed the power consumption was a little vague.

[Totem]

I have seen two RV's burn to the ground, using wood stoves, three people dead. Is that your idea of roughing it?

Brian

I've seen people accidentally set themselves on fire by not following safe practices also; I have also seen homes burn down from not havinig proper chimney maintenance.

I have also seen a guy in here (timmy) survive in Alaska with a woodburning stove in a toy home and he is just fine. I have no issues using one personally; I will install it to code. But to answer your question that's my idea of bad luck, improper burning technique or improper stove installation. My idea of "roughing it" means no shore power for extended time period. I'm always open to ideas.