Heavy duty clutch?

[gjewers]

I have an '88 Itasca with a 22r and a 4 speed manual trans. I need to replace the clutch as it is beginning to slip and there is no adjustment as it is hydraulic. Do I need to get a special heavier duty clutch for a 1 ton or will one slated for a pickup work? Also, any good links out there for r&r instructions for the clutch? Thanks. gj

[zero]

I have an '88 Itasca with a 22r and a 4 speed manual trans. I need to replace the clutch as it is beginning to slip and there is no adjustment as it is hydraulic. Do I need to get a special heavier duty clutch for a 1 ton or will one slated for a pickup work? Also, any good links out there for r&r instructions for the clutch? Thanks. gj

The 2.4s in 1 ton trucks use 8 7/8" clutches with 21 splines just like the older trucks including with the 2.2 engines. The turbocharged 2.4s and the 3 liter V6s use 9 1/4" clutches with 21 splines. It may be a bolt in swap but I can' t verify that. I'd stick with the 8 7/8" like it came with unless I knew for sure the turbo-clutch fit in with no mods.

[Maineah]

I don't think the bolt pattern for the clutch cover will except a larger clutch disk the only upgrade would be some thing with more clamping force.

[zero]

I don't think the bolt pattern for the clutch cover will except a larger clutch disk the only upgrade would be some thing with more clamping force.

If Toyota does like like Ford and GM do it, the later flywheels might be drilled for two different bolt pattern and sizes of pressure-plates. I would assume the flywheel from a turbocharged 2.4 with the 9 1/4" clutch would bolt right up to a non-turbo 2.4. I cannot say for sure though.

For a HD upgrade the same size - it would probably be done with a metallic material instead of organic like Aisin uses OEM. That's the way it's done in just about everything else. But that sort of upgrade is a trade-off. I wouldn't want it.

Using a metallic clutch means it lasts longer - BUT wears out the flywheel as quick as the clutch disk. When time comes to replace -sometimes a new flywheel is needed due to all the metal wear. With the shorter lived organic clutch and hydraulic self-adjuster - the disk often wears with NO wear on the flyweel and is designed to slip so bad you can't drive it before any metal contacts metal.

We had to tear apart a lot of industrial tractors with failed HD metallic button clutches and then . . the preferred "upgrade" was a downgrade to the organic clutches what did less damage.

[Maineah]

I have seen only one drilling arrangement it is quite possible the turbo flywheel does have a different drilling pattern I don't know but that is a very rare animal and probably quite expensive. So I have to ask how long did the first one last? And would spending the extra money be worth it? After all it's 24 years will you still be driving it in another 24 years?

[zero]

I have seen only one drilling arrangement it is quite possible the turbo flywheel does have a different drilling pattern I don't know but that is a very rare animal and probably quite expensive. So I have to ask how long did the first one last? And would spending the extra money be worth it? After all it's 24 years will you still be driving it in another 24 years?

No. The turbo 2.4 flywheel is easy to buy and cheap. $40 brand new. From reading the specs it looks like an easy bolt-in swap. If I was putting in a new clutch and knew for-sure that the bigger clutch fit with no mods - I'd put it in. Just happens I do not have the experience with a little Toyota. I've upgraded many US trucks. I would NOT install a so-called HD same-size clutch with buttons and kevlar. Bigger clutch, heck yes. A complete tubro 2.4 kit with new pressure plate, disk, flywheel, aligner, throwout bearing and pilot bearing can be bought for $150.

The non-turbo flwheel (8 7/8"clutch) is the same OD as the turbo flywheel that takes a 9 1/4" clutch.

New Sachs turbo 2.4 flywheel is $40. It has: 11.6" OD, 115 teeth for starter, 3 dowel pins, 6 bolt holes for 11.3 mm bolts. Clutch friction area is 9.375" OD and 5.75" ID. Crank-hub centerhole is 1.6". Flywheel is 1.4" thick.

New Sachs non-turbo 2.4 flywheel is also $40. It has: 11.6" OD, 115 teeth for starter, 3 dowel pins, 6 bolt holes for 11.3 mm bolts. Clutch friction area is 9" OD and 5.75" ID. Crank-hub centerhole is 1.6". Flywheel is 1,5" thick.

[Maineah]

OK from what I have been seeing the true 1 ton and the turbo used the same assembly 88 should be a factory 1 ton.

[aptruncata]

i have a 84 21ft 4speed and changed out the clutch this weekend with aisin. Grabs fine and drives fine.

[Allen]

I sure wish I knew about this prior to the automatic to manual transmission conversion I did almost 2.5 years ago. I would have definitely went for the turbo version!

Below are some pictures I found on eBay that show the differences. On the turbo version (left), the ring gear is the same diameter as the flywheel surface. The non turbo version (right), shows the full ring gear, hence the smaller clutch diameter and surface area. At least from this vendor, there is only a $5 difference between the two versions.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item2ec43e508a

[zero]

I sure wish I knew about this prior to the automatic to manual transmission conversion I did almost 2.5 years ago. I would have definitely went for the turbo version!

I can't seen any reason NOT to do it if it all fits. I'd hate to buy the stuff and find out it doesn't. The only possible problem I can think of is clearance between the extra 3/16" of pressure-plate OD and the inside of the bell-housing. I doubt things are that tight,but you never know with Japanese stuff. I've got a bellhousing in my shop from a 2.2. When I get around to it I'm going to center a standard 8 7/8" pressure plate in it and see how much extra clearance there is.

The gain would be nice if it didn't cost much more - but it's not a huge gain. It only adds 4.3 square inches of friction area.

[WME]

Does Toyota list a turbo bellhousing and a standard one??

[zero]

Does Toyota list a turbo bellhousing and a standard one??

Many of the newer transmissions do not have separate bell-housings and some are found in turbo applications only. I have can't say one way or the other if that has anything to do with clearance for a bigger pressure plate. It may just be a beefier trans for the extra torque.

I just laid a 8 7/8" pressure-plate inside a 2.2 bell-housing and there's over 1/4" of room all around. It looks like a 9 1/4" would fit in a 2.2 setup just fine. Again, I haven't done it yet but it sure looks that way.

[gjewers]

Well, thank you ALL for replying to this post. Gives me a little insight and much to chew on. Now I need some nicer weather as it will be done outside in the dirt and right now it's snowing in the Sierras.

Merry Christmas to all and wishes for a new year of happy road trips!

[gjewers]

Anybody recommend a brand of clutch and flywheel? My local shop swears by Lucas. Looking for something NOT made in china. What say the brethren?

Thanks again.

gj

[zero]

Anybody recommend a brand of clutch and flywheel? My local shop swears by Lucas. Looking for something NOT made in china. What say the brethren?

Thanks again.

gj

I don' t know how you'd insure a so-called "Lucas" clutch was not made in China? Lucas makes nothing. The brand "Lucas" is supplied parts by another companay that also makes nothing in France (Donoflex). Donaflex buys parts from suppliers all over the world and resells.

Toyota uses clutches OEM supplied by Aisin, a Japan based company. I can't say where all their factories are and I don't care. I've use Sachs and Aisin and all were the same quality as what Toyota uses OEM.

[gjewers]

Hello all. I wound up installing a LUK clutch and flywheel. It was LUK that the local mechanic said were made in the USA. NOT! Flywheel from china and clutch fro s.africa. But what the hell. Ordered on the net for a good price and wasn't going to send them back. Got the "gold" series clutch which is supposed to have 30-35% more clamping force and figured this was a good thing. Perfect fit. Easy job using cut off longer bolts to slide trans in and out and the grease trick for the pilot bearing. Had enough room to stuff the trans back on the cross member and did not have to completely pull it. I welded up a cradle for a small floor jack and it worked like a charm so minimal armstronging.

What I need now is a diagram of a W series trans and the "shift lever retainer" parts. The nylon ball housing inside that the shifter ball sits in is all busted up. There are two pins that guide the ball and they don't seem to want to come out and look hardened so Probably aren't drillable. I don't want to pound too hard and crack the aluminum. Anyway I got the wrong part from the dealer and would like to get a better parts description for next time. (A friend picked up the part and the dealer is 90 mi. away.)

Soooo, Does anybody have info on good parts diagrams and experience with the shift lever retainer?

Thanks again!

[WME]

http://www.marlincrawler.com/transmission/shifter-parts

These folks have what you should be needing

[zero]

Hello all. I wound up installing a LUK clutch and flywheel. It was LUK that the local mechanic said were made in the USA. NOT! Flywheel from china and clutch fro s.africa. But what the hell. Ordered on the net for a good price and wasn't going to send them back. Got the "gold" series clutch which is supposed to have 30-35% more clamping force and figured this was a good thing. Perfect fit. Easy job using cut off longer bolts to slide trans in and out and the grease trick for the pilot bearing. Had enough room to stuff the trans back on the cross member and did not have to completely pull it. I welded up a cradle for a small floor jack and it worked like a charm so minimal armstronging.

What I need now is a diagram of a W series trans and the "shift lever retainer" parts. The nylon ball housing inside that the shifter ball sits in is all busted up. There are two pins that guide the ball and they don't seem to want to come out and look hardened so Probably aren't drillable. I don't want to pound too hard and crack the aluminum. Anyway I got the wrong part from the dealer and would like to get a better parts description for next time. (A friend picked up the part and the dealer is 90 mi. away.)

Soooo, Does anybody have info on good parts diagrams and experience with the shift lever retainer?

Thanks again!

Marlin crawler does NOT have the parts for a W50. All they sell are a few bearings, universal rubber boot, and might have a new generic plastic wear cap that goes on the end of your shifter. Note I said "might" because W50s came with two different sizes. In regard to the cast-steel piece that has the round bore that the shifter fits into . . there are at least three different ones for the W50. I've been buying small shifter parts from Toyota for W50s over the past few months from their "archived" parts. I suspect with a few, I got the last ones. After I bought, they no longer appeared in the official Toyota parts database. I have one new piece (the one you're looking for ) that did not fit my particular W50. You'd better measure the bore and at least that will narrow things down.

The roll-pins or split-pins that hold the cast-steel piece on the rod do not come out all that hard. You have to back it up with something before you start hammering on them to drive out.

There are many Toyota dealers that have the full parts diagrams posted on the Internet for the W50. I was using http://www.toyotapoartsoverstock.com/

With any of them - you have to look up a W50 for 1979 or newer for a truck. If you can find them I'll post a few later. I saved many in PDF and JPG.

LUK clutch has alway used foreign parts as far as I've seen. LUK was used in many farm tractors. At least for the big stuff, we had nothing but trouble with them.

In regard to a so-called HD clutch. Usually that is done in two ways. More clamping force via heavier springs - and/or a metal-ceramic disk material. None of which are much good for a little Toyota truck. More clamping force just results in more pedal effort and linkage wear. A metal-ceramic disk allows the disk to last longer because it wears the metal off the flywheel and often the flywheel gets ruined.

In my opinion if anyone seeks a more durable clutch in a Toyota, the bigger one used in turbos is the way to go.

[zero]

What I need now is a diagram of a W series trans and the "shift lever retainer" parts. The nylon ball housing inside that the shifter ball sits in is all busted up. There are two pins that guide the ball and they don't seem to want to come out and look hardened so Probably aren't drillable. I don't want to pound too hard and crack the aluminum. Anyway I got the wrong part from the dealer and would like to get a better parts description for next time. (A friend picked up the part and the dealer is 90 mi. away.)

Soooo, Does anybody have info on good parts diagrams and experience with the shift lever retainer?

Thanks again!

I just re-read your post and seems I was referring to a different part. The shifter has a plastic wear cap on the end. That cap sits in the cast-steel piece I was referring too. I guess you are talking about the ball itself on the shifter. That sits in the rectangle shaped piece made of pot metal with four bolts. There are three different ones used in W50s. With most there is a concave wear piece that matches the curve of the ball on the bottom of the shifter and a spring underneath it. I just bought a new one. Those pins ARE hard, solid and tight. Probably takes some heating to remove them from the pot-metal housing.

[zero]

Here are some photos. That cupped wear ring that goes under the shifter ball is soft and easily installs without pulling out those two steel pins. The pins DO press out from the inside but there is no need to remove them.

[gjewers]

Thanks for the posting of the photos and info. My shifter retainer was different than the photos. The cupped ring is larger and is one piece that has the pins going through it. Made of a hard plastic,(unless it is just old and should be softer). I had to get the entire assembly as I could not get the ring separately from the dealer and my local dealer didn't even have the retainer in his catalog any longer. I ordered the part from "Toyota Parts Overstock . com" Had a little trouble figuring out the right part from there web site but called them and they use your VIN to ID track down the right part.

Anyway, the clutch works like a charm; Smooth and easy. Not really any pedal difference for a "gold series" clutch but it feels great. Also changed the slave cylinder as it had a minor leak.

Now converting to a 2 battery system and then on the road again.

[5Toyota]

hi very smart to change that slave cylinder years ago i had one like that drip once in a while i put it off one day it just exploded running out all over dead in the water right there.