Jump to content

Recommended Posts

it has a better stronger timeing chain then the later 22r or re a double wide roller chain. the later only have a single wide set.there all very reliable change antifreze and oil adjust valves dont overheat it run forever .I AM OLD SCHOOL I HAVE OWEND fOUR 20RS and1 22r two 22re seven toyotas all four . WE HAD A 20 R CORONA WAGEN 15 YEARS 200.000miles .NONE OF THEM HAVE INSERT BEARINGS FOR THE OVERHEAD CAM IT RUNS RIGHT ON THE HEAD my 88 4WDXTRA CAB 200.000 plus now. i run 20 W 50 oil always have fro m 1983to now just sold 1978 20rminimax 95.ooo org miles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

in the 1970s the same 20r was in the truck. corona and celica cars my take on it is if you have a good one not trashed be older or newer good deal. if my wagen was not totaled out by others i would still have it . i DO LIKE THE POWER INCRESS I DONT CARE FOR EFI BECAUSE I AM FROM THE CARB ERA> the 20R was rated 96 hp 22re efi at 115

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My 20R SR5 pickup had 385K when I gave it to my neighbor I did have to put a clutch and a radiator in it and rebuild the carb once what a money pit!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If only all cars were built that well!

Up to now, all my experience with Toyotas of any kind had been light duty trucks and cars. For that they've been fantastic. Running a tiny 2.2 or 2.4 in a 6000-7000 lb. motorhome has to yield different results since it's in the medium duty weight class. So far, just about every Toyota motorhome I've seen - either running or in the junkyard has less then 100K miles which isn't really a great test of longevity. I'd love to see some "B" testing but I assume such HD tests never existed for small Toyotas.

A "B" test is used on medium duty engines that work hard most of the time. E.g. an Isuzu diesel truck engine is has a B10 rating of 410,000 miles. That means when used under hard use 90% went 410,000 miles with no major repairs and 10%" did need them. A 3.9 liter four-cylinder Cummins 4BT (used as a replacement engine in some motorhomes) has a B50 of 350,000 miles, and a B10 of 210,000 miles.

I'm in the northeast with lots of steep mountain roads and highways. Hills and winter snow-rot kills a lot of motorhomes of any make. I rarely find motorhomes of any make with more then 100K. But the US powered ones in the junkyards often still have good engines. Just rot damage or were too expensive to drive and got junked. With Toyotas - every one I've found in junkyards so far was there because the engine quit.

I'm sure someone will chime in from other areas with 2.2 or 2.4 liter 7000 lb. Toyotas with 200K miles. I'm sure they exist but I have not come across any first-hand. same goes for the small engine Lasharos with the French four-banger engines.

Note I am not bad-mouthing Toyota. Just stating a fact that a 2.2 or 2.4 liter engine in something that weighs 7000 lbs. and has high wind resistance is really getting a workout just about all the time. I don't know of any small four-cylinder gas engine (for cars or trucks) that was ever built for that type of work - at least not one imported into the USA. Farm tractors and industrial equipment yes. So I guess if a little Toyota even makes it to 100K with a 21 footer and a high roof - that is a statement of very high quality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the 20r is more reliable than either of them

I knew of a 80 toyota pickup with 1.5 million miles. It probably made 2 million miles toyota paid to paint it and advertise it. it was used in the newspaper trade so it ran basically 8 hours a day every single day.

but people like the 22re most because its fuel injected and still extremely reliable, and thats 20 hp with better gas mileage much better for this purpose.

I have actually owned a 21 foot dolphin with the 20r and with the 22re and id go 22re all day every day. its nice to be able to keep up with the semis in the slow lane going up hills. lol.

its nice to be reliable but none of these motorhomes are going to make 300k so id gladly give it up a little.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the 20r is more reliable than either of them

I knew of a 80 toyota pickup with 1.5 million miles.

I'd have to see proof to believe it. That would be very hard to document. That truck would have to be driven 100 miles a day for 40 years. And during those 40 years - a verified service record.

Even if it DID happen (which I doubt at the moment) - it's anecdotal and an anomalie. I got 520,000 miles out of a Chevy 6.2 diesel. Had many, many external repairs along the way but the bulk of the internals were original. That was an extreme anomalie and not a predictor of longevity. Many GM 6.2 diesels were blown to pieces by 150K and few ever made it past 210,000 miles. That goes for the later 6.5 diesels also. The US military has an average service life of the same 6.5 diesel of 5000 miles for the original GM engines. They now have a new company making heavier copies and the jury is out on how much better they will do.

By the way, there is a guy who claims to hold what he calls the world's record in Long Island, NY. A 1966 P1800 Volvo sports car he says has 2,960,000 miles and is still going. Good story with no proof. Who knows?

I'll believe actual controlled testing when trying to predict engine life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

theres not only proof of this vehicle theres a whole magazine devoted to toyota trucks that went over 1 million miles.

magazine articles and a club. pictures and documents.

This particular one is in santa barbara ca, it not only made 1 millions it made 1.5 million, maybe the first one. And probably 2 million. its a work truck but its also sponsored by penzoil.

theres at least half a dozen that made over 1 million.

there are tacomas with over 1 million miles also.

ya this particular one had 1 million in about 10 years and its miles driven were probably 300 a day.

and thats nothing. I recently owned a 5 year old civic with 350k miles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

theres not only proof of this vehicle theres a whole magazine devoted to toyota trucks that went over 1 million miles.

And what exactly is this proof? The magazine?? The owner's word? If it takes 40-50 years how many people are even still alive when the truck was new? How is it verified and does it include details of use and verified repair records?

I'm sure some vehicles have been able to last a long time - of many makes. I saw a Ford Model A from Mexico at the Henry Ford museum that supposedly had 1,000,000 miles. No proof though.

When a car or truck is cruising down the road with very little load on it and good oil pressure and good oil there is almost no metal to metal contact inside the engine except maybe the valve guides. It's often the loads on the engine and cold starting that promote the most wear.

I'm not sure there is any reliable way to verify super high miles unless it's a controlled test and there are outside unbiased auditors and fact checkers. I don't know of any such records for a 1 to 2 million mile truck - but if you know where they are - tell us where.

Yes, I'm skeptical until I see proof. I've worked in disciplines where the burden of proof is rigid and for good reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I'd say Honda beats toyota by a little in the longevity and reliability department.

My only first hand experience is with my 22RE 86 4x4 pickup. 240,000 and either the headgasket went, or the timing chain finally ate a hole through the cover and dumped coolant into the oil. Probably if I had done better on the maintenance, I would have got another 20 or 30 thousand out of it. I would consider timing chains and head gaskets to be routine maintenance. I drove it to NY and back from Utah when it had just over 200,000.

Since then I haven't kept one vehicle long enough to test the high mile mark.

And that truck was not hauling around 1,000lbs of extra weight all it's life. But there are plenty of 2wd and 4wd pickups out there with 20Rs in them with really high miles. I'd call at least 200,000 miles common for any R series motor which has had regular maintenance, before needing a rebuild. I don't know what to call common once they're permanently loaded down with the camper weight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

actually all vehicles mileage are verified in ca by smog certificates.

this one took less than 10 years.

actually most million mile vehicles do it in less than 10 years. This one is verified by toyota as believeable enough to repaint it and feature an article about it.

I dont know about doubting million mile vehicles when theres been im going to say over a hundred. I think theres about 15 just toyota trucks over 1 million miles.

there are even a few american made vehciles that are over a million miles like buicks and dodge trucks.

I guess you can doubt the world is round too.

as far as 2.8 million mile vehciles, that would take 30 years. but because theres only been a handful of those i wouldnt doubt any of them. I think theres a volvo and a mercedes on the way to 3 million.

there are million mile hondas too. hondas have gotten a million miles more recently.

my car a bmw 325 has 4 different million mile owners.

they are allowed to replace the head gasket and timing chain in most standards. things like the clutch but not the transmission.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd call at least 200,000 miles common for any R series motor which has had regular maintenance, before needing a rebuild. I don't know what to call common once they're permanently loaded down with the camper weight.

Honda cars were pieces of junk when they first came out. But they worked real hard and go their quality up fast.

My first experience with a Toyota was in the mid 60s. Mabye 1968. This when all us "cool" kids were working on 55 Chevys or something close. An older friend of mine got . . for a high school graduation present . . a brand new four-door rear wheel drive Toyota. Standard trans and I don't know what engine it has. That car got 6-8 kids jammed into it every night and got beat something awful. Popping the clutch, power shifts, etc. It was also in many accidents. It also got NO maintenance except for adding oil once in awhile. When that car finally got junked it had near 100,000 miles on it which was amazing. it still ran -just had one too many accidents. I know of no car that could take a beating like that and last to 100K with no major repairs. Lot of cars lasted but that was with frequent transmission, clutch, rear axle, and engine changes. I drove a taxi for awhile and we beat on our cars (not that bad though) and none held up close to that. All Chevys and Checkers (with Chevy engines).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

actually all vehicles mileage are verified in ca by smog certificates.

For 40-50 years? And do they verify what parts a person puts in his car or truck when nobody is watching?

California must have some really good record keeping. I was arrested in 1972 in New York City and they can find no record of it - due to old microfilms or paper records getting lost and also the mishaps that ocurred during the changeover to computer record keeping. I'm not even allowed to enter Canada anymore simply because record keeping was so bad 40 years ago. I can't prove what my arrest was 40 years ago so they will no longer let me into Canada (unless I pay them a couple of thousand dollars and get a waiver).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i dont follow....

all the million mile trucks ive seen did it within 10-15 years

the truck im thinking of was brand new in 1980 and went over 1 million miles in the 90s.

the one im talking about went to 1.5 million in just over 10 years.

I dont even really know of a 40 year old car with over a million miles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i dont follow....

all the million mile trucks ive seen did it within 10-15 years

If you drive your Toyota 100 miles a day for a year - that is 36,500 miles.

If you drive your Toyota 100 miles a day for 10 years - that is 360,500 miles.

If you drive your Toyota 100 miles a day for 40 years - that is 1,460,000 miles.

To do it in 10 years you'd be driving 400 miles a day, every week, and every month for 10 years straight. I find that a bit doubtful.

Besides that -in just 1000 miles the valves open and close 2,700,000 times. In 1.5 million miles? 2,700,000,000. Near 3 billion times. Must be good stuff!

For even more fun - the distance the piston skirts travel in 1.5 million miles is staggering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I only know my experience. I was old enough to drive in the early/mid 90's. So my experience is mostly with 80's model trucks & cars, other than the 78 Chinook and a couple 90's Toyotas and Subarus.

The 80's and 90's Hondas I've seen are the longest lasting (non-diesel) vehicles I know of. But I don't know everything, unfortunately. Being around internet communities of Toyota pickup owners, I have a good feel for how long they last, and at what level of abuse and maintenance. I know Subarus in the same way, but to a little lesser extent. They're quirky and problem-prone, but if you know their quirks and problems, they are really long lasting, with just regular oil changes.

Anyways...I think the OP can be confident that the entire R series of Toyota motors are all very reliable. The only difference with the 20R is that it's got a bit less horsepower, but it my opinion it makes up for that with a longer lasting timing chain. Though it's not a bad idea to go with a fresh headgasket and chains around 100,000 miles, just for insurance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to put 20,000 miles a year, at least, on my Toyota. That's just daily driving, with two weekends a month getting out of the boonies and into a city to visit friends, plus a couple summer trips to the desert or a national park. Do that for 10 years, with an occaisional cross-country trip, and you're really racking up the miles. Would still take some time to get to a million, though. But I don't really care. Toyota's are great, and reliable, and I know how to work on them. That's enough for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know Subarus in the same way, but to a little lesser extent. They're quirky and problem-prone, but if you know their quirks and problems, they are really long lasting, with just regular oil changes.

I've been driving Subaru 4WDs and AWDs for over 30 years. I only use them in the winter and they come off the road in the summer. Winters are tough and so are frequent short trips up steep dirt mountain roads as compared to someone racking up highway miles on a long commute. Subarus will go - and stop - in places hardly anything else will. But I would not call hardly any of them very reliable. Consistent yes. The same ones seem to have the same problems over and over. The Loyale 4WDs with stick shift used up front axle joints fairly often (steep angle). Exhaust systems were terrible - OEM or factory. Ever 1.8 I ever owned burned oil and leaked oil. Loyale 4WD automatics were prone to getting stuck governors in the trans and also did not really have 4WD all the time. A throttle-responsive valve turned off the clutch pressure to the rear wheel clutch at low throttle. The external electric fuel pumps were also very short lived in salty areas like mine. Subaru Justys with the three-cylinder engines also had fuel pump problems over and over, along with awful exhaust systems and incredibly small brakes.

The mid-90s Imprezas with AWD and 2.2 engines were fantastic. I had two and never owned a better car in my life - not even a Toyota. I'm driving one (a 95) now with 220,000 miles of nothing but harsh winter driving. No summer commutes. That beats any car getting half-a-million with easy cruisng down the highway. Still has the original stainless steel exhaust. Doesn't burn a drop of oil and it's so rusty I can see through the bottoms of the doors.

My newest Subaru is a 2002 Impreza with a 2.5 and 5 speed trans. A badly engineered piece of junk in my opinion. I am very disappointed with it. Geared wrong. Way too much engine to be revving 2800 RPM at 65 MPH. Gets 26 MPG usually at best which is much lower then it ought to get. Stop and go in the winter it gets 22 MPG. It's been recalled twice. Also has many check engine light problems which are mostly software related. Exhaust system has been replaced three times already. Brakes are way too light and small. Wheel bearings gone bad in the back once already and it only has 130,000 mile on it.

If I ever find a rust free low mile 1995 Impreza -I'm going to grab it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had an 87GL wagon with 4 hi and low, and now have a 93 Loyale. It gets me wherever I want to go. Subarus always leak oil. The ea82 engines get stuck lifters, plus all sorts of other things. But yeah, they keep going. Mine is also just a winter car. And some summer backpacking trips where I need to drive three or four people, my dog and our gear. Otherwise I drive my 83 4x4 Toyota all summer.

I have never driven anything, except a snowmobile, that handled better in the snow than my Loyale, with 4wd and studded snow tires. Around town in the winter (they aren't much for plowing around here and don't use salt), its unstoppable. I love finding unplowed parking lots at trail heads, or the edges of roads where the snow is over a foot deep, and driving through, getting snow to come flowing up over the windshield and roof. Great car. It takes my abuse pretty well, but I'm only mildly abusive of my vehicles. I baby my toyota trucks. The Subaru wagons have always been for rallying...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ya suburus always have the valve cover gaskets bad because they are not horizontal. volkswagons had the same thing but worse

I had a 97 imprezza outback i was going to trade for and it smelled like burnt oil. its a very desirable one. I was going to trade my 96 miata for it.

theres another model like that its the toyota van and previa where the engine is 45 degrees and the valve cover is underneath a seat.

its not that its any worse its just that its such a pain to do it people sell them leaking.

i did the valve cover gasket on the 20r this summer in maybe half an hour. sooooo easy. And I would describe it as a model that also leaks a lot from those half circle things but its so easy to replace and it costs abour 15$ for a set youll never see one leaking.

older suburus were terrible for rust. now i heard they are about the top 3 cars against rust. In fact i believe they are #2 in jdpower after toyota now.

in fact suburu makes toyotas new scion sports car and some camrys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

some of the head gasket problems on the 20 r were caused by useing FELPRO head gaskets which were marketd and sold as perma torq no re torqing ever needed . if for some reason most common blowen hose over heat blow head gasket. we have ironblock aluminum head. i had a frend worked private grage he said the permatorq did not look the same the factury gasket required retorq at about 1000 miles the felpro he said would do good too last two years and awayes blow for no reason at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

theres a saab with a million miles too. not 3 million. many volvos.

theres countless mercedes with a million miles. at least 2 american cars but in general they conspicuously dont ever make a million miles.

i dont know of asians cars other than honda and toyota, a la no nissans.

definitely not a conspiracy with the cia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a Toy home in the for sale section here that had 250K on it. Motor homes don't get driven a lot the one I bought had an average of 1400 miles a year then in the next 3 years I added 20K!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, it blew me away that my 78 Chinook only had 48,000 miles on it. But it was just a weekend warrior, fairly locally used only in the summertime vehicle, so it makes sense.

With any luck, in about 10-15 years ill get back to you guys on how a 20R does with the camper weight, and getting into high miles...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A friend of mine had a 290,000 miles on a 4Runner with the 22R when it finally got stolen. He never did anything to that motor except for oil changes and tuneups. He blasted through Baja in that thing countless times on windsurf/surf trips and it never let him down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had an 87GL wagon with 4 hi and low, and now have a 93 Loyale.

If you ever need parts I have over 20 GL and other Loyale 4WD wagons up in my field. All ran when parked there and all taken off road when the back wheels virtually broke off from rust. I just drove a 92 up there that has new timing belts, new front axles, new u-joints in rear driveshaft, new clutch and four new studded snows. Kind of a shame. It broke in back just like the rest of them and there is no fix. Around here it always seems to be bad luck to install a new clutch in anything. Seems every time I do, some other major thing fails shortly after.

A Loyale 4WD wagon with the hi-low and the 5 speed trans was an amazing car for traction. With automatic - it got nowhere near as good traction and incredibly worse gas mileage.

I've been hoping for a few years now to find a rust-free 4WD Loyale somewhere to swap my parts into -but they do not seem to exist in the east.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

.older suburus were terrible for rust. now i heard they are about the top 3 cars against rust. In fact i believe they are #2 in jdpower after toyota now.

in fact suburu makes toyotas new scion sports car and some camrys.

The rust seems to have depended on body style for the older ones. Loyales rusted something awful. Justys almost as bad. Older Legacys much better and same with Imprezas. My newest 2002 Impreza has a rust recall on it right now.. So far I've refused to bring it in for official Subaru "fix." They say the lower control arms that hold the front wheels on can rust and break off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...