1990 Sunrader Remodel

[Totem]

Karin when do we get to see some pics of new sunrader interior?

[linda s]

I have 2 Sunraders and I don't think mine were a hack job. All window openings are smooth and correct measurement for the window. Cabinets are very flimsy but also very light because of it. I'm very happy with mine as a whole. Glad they didn't put in heavy cabinets and fittings. Like my mileage and handling. And yes I feel a little sick when I see people tearing them apart. I see so few of those ever become a useful motorhomes again. Everyone seems to get so far and then give up. Hello another gutted Sunrader shell instead of fun little camper

Linda S

[Totem]

-thats why i went "over top" of my cabinets and 70's wall paneling with tongue groove cedar and kept all equipment same. The only thing i ripped out of my sunrader was the abomination that was sculpted shag carpet and even that I left in on the ceiling and door surround just to let people know the rig is of age. I added some modern ammenities but resisted the urge to Gut. Rest assured though I always finish what I start and I KNOW I could do much better than they did for floor plan; alas my rig would probably gain weight in the end from all the extra useful space to put stuff. I say useful because half the cabinets cubbies and the closet are almost dollhouse like in their size and capacity.

[Stevo]

So true! I sold my "donor" Sunrader within 4 hours after placing the ad for $250 MORE than I paid for it and I got a 1 ton rear axle with 4 rear wheels, a hood, front bumper and an extra gas tank out of it that I used for my "keeper" Sunrader.

There is never a lack of buyers for a gutted Sunrader.

[MontanaChinook]

I wouldn't say hack jobs on the Chinooks, but certainly "kits". They had all the specs planned and drawn out, and depending on whether it was new guy doing the cutting and fitting or if it was Friday afternoon, some of the work is not top notch.

But to look at my Chinook when it was put together, it was very nice and cozy looking (if you could get past the turquoise paint), and very functional.

And yeah...from first hand experience, I can say that it all seems so easy when you're gutting it...so clear how everything goes back together...then you get into it and realize how much work it is! And how much weird stuff you have to figure out. How did the cupboards connect to the ceiling again? What the heck did they use THIS piece of wood for? Etc....

I've been overwhelmed and discouraged a few times, but then I just keep getting one thing done at a time...and now here I am camping in it again, even though the cupboards and cabinets aren't fully back together yet, and I don't have lights or propane...

[Stevo]

My windows open and close smoothly too. All the ticky-tacky stuff is obvious but you won't see whats really "behind the curtains" until you gut one. But like I said before, based on what I've seen I doubt these were constructed any better or worse than most motorhomes and trailers out there.

My new cabinets will be lighter and much better constructed than the original. I'm still figuring it out but I'll probably use plywood instead of particle board and if I do use a type of particle board then it will be some stuff called "Trupan UltraLite MDF" which is actually lighter than both.

I have 2 Sunraders and I don't think mine were a hack job. All window openings are smooth and correct measurement for the window. Cabinets are very flimsy but also very light because of it.

Linda S

[getout]

You should see the rough hack job that was done when cutting the opening in the back of the cab on my Sunrader.. Guess you can economically hide most any kind of poor craftsmanship with a nice double thick layer of shag carpet. It must be much harder on RV makers since it went out of style

Yeah, mine is horrible. It's like they tried to cut it opened with a can opener and when that didn't work, they went to a hammer claw. Hopefully I can get that cleaned up as part of the remodel. Too bad no one will ever really see/appreciate it when it's done and covered up.

[getout]

Karin, that's a pretty informative link. Thanks for that.

[Stevo]

Yeah that is some good information, thanks! The Gougeon brothers, who started West, pioneered the use of epoxy to build super light ice boats and FAST multihulls that were light years ahead of anything else out there. Their first boat was a super fast self-designed trimaran named Adagio they built in the early 70's and last I read Adagio was still placing high in races 40 years later.

[DaveO]

getout, Did you ever figure out what you are going to do for the 4x4 swap? I am in the same boat as I could really benefit from 4x4 and haven't decide what route to go.

1. Earlier Tundra

2. F-Series (preferably 7.3 Diesel)

3. Sell the Sunrader Gutted as is and find something shorter (I have the 21' and it is impractical to leave at my job when I get shipped out)

Interested into what you decided on.

[getout]

getout, Did you ever figure out what you are going to do for the 4x4 swap? I am in the same boat as I could really benefit from 4x4 and haven't decide what route to go.

1. Earlier Tundra

2. F-Series (preferably 7.3 Diesel)

3. Sell the Sunrader Gutted as is and find something shorter (I have the 21' and it is impractical to leave at my job when I get shipped out)

Interested into what you decided on.

Honestly; no, I haven't. I bought a 1985 straight axle and high steer kit with some lift springs. I would need a transmission and that would be about it for the 4x4 on the front end (other than actually SASing the truck). The rear I'd still need to do something with but I don't know it would be terribly difficult.

The good news is, there's a pretty high demand for 4x4 toyota motorhomes, the bad news is I have significantly less time than when I started this project (not that I had much then, but I have less now). Also, the house seems to be consuming and discretionary income we have with a pending bathroom remodel next.

I don't know. I would hate to throw in the towel because I know it would be pretty cool when it was done, but I have no idea when that would happen.

The problem is, there's not really a very good alternative to any of this. Even if I had a different truck I'd still have to build something custom on the back to make it work for what I want. I don't know if there's any BEST solution to any of this.

[DaveO]

Honestly; no, I haven't. I bought a 1985 straight axle and high steer kit with some lift springs. I would need a transmission and that would be about it for the 4x4 on the front end (other than actually SASing the truck). The rear I'd still need to do something with but I don't know it would be terribly difficult.

The good news is, there's a pretty high demand for 4x4 toyota motorhomes, the bad news is I have significantly less time than when I started this project (not that I had much then, but I have less now). Also, the house seems to be consuming and discretionary income we have with a pending bathroom remodel next.

I don't know. I would hate to throw in the towel because I know it would be pretty cool when it was done, but I have no idea when that would happen.

The problem is, there's not really a very good alternative to any of this. Even if I had a different truck I'd still have to build something custom on the back to make it work for what I want. I don't know if there's any BEST solution to any of this.

Have you thought about purchasing a newer (mid 90's+) Tundra, T100 or Taco and dropping the Dually axle & Camper Frame onto that? It would eliminate the PITA that is welding up a new front end & would give you a chance to upgrade to a engine with some more power & I assume you still have the Axle & Frame.

I have mine gutted to the Shell and Bathroom and to redo it from there on a 4x2 83 Yota body seems like I would outgrow it fast. Like yourself Income was an Issue, Now it is Time and Space.

[getout]

Have you thought about purchasing a newer (mid 90's+) Tundra, T100 or Taco and dropping the Dually axle & Camper Frame onto that? It would eliminate the PITA that is welding up a new front end & would give you a chance to upgrade to a engine with some more power & I assume you still have the Axle & Frame.

I have mine gutted to the Shell and Bathroom and to redo it from there on a 4x2 83 Yota body seems like I would outgrow it fast. Like yourself Income was an Issue, Now it is Time and Space.

I have very much so. I think a Taco with a 3.4l would be really nice. I think, if I was going to do it, I'd get an extended cab, cut the extended part out and re-weld most of the back to make it a regular cab so I get all the round corners and strength that it adds. I'd leave the frame in tact and then move the rear spring hangers back and add some more on the rear of the frame.

This would probably be my preferred approach but it's now it's time and money. The mess isn't costing me anything keeping it as is. I really think most of the money is going to get poured into the interior (despite my plans for super simplicity).

If someone's got a 4x4 Taco laying around they want to give me, I'd be happy to take it and start the project.

[Stevo]

Did you ever consider retrofitting 4wd to your existing Sunrader instead of putting it on another truck? Just wondering if thats possible and how much retrofitting would cost?

[Mikesta]

Someone pinged me a link to this thread, read through it and have a few comments.

1. You are a very brave man

2. You have come a long way!

3. You can complete this and it will be just awesome!

Have a few questions

1. Why don't you use the existing chassis... I'd like to hear more of your reasoning. Are you uncomfortable swapping a 3.4 in there. There are some good forums where people swap out the 3.headgasket fail engine to the 3.4.

2. If you 4x4 it, that would be awesome. You will be lifting it. What is the hang up with the rear axle. I don't see why you couldn't keep it the way it is.... edumakate me here. Gearing can be swapped out.... the driveline can be modified... just lift it and call it a day.

3. It seems that you and I are alike. Hey! I like to progress and accomplish stuff and am really good at taking stuff apart. I find that putting it back together can be challenging. Maybe we aren't alike... but I've learned that the only way to eat an elephant is to take one bite at a time. If I look at the whole thing and what needs to be done... I want to quit. But as I progress my confidence builds and before I know it, its 90% done. Are you like me?

4. Where are you located, if you are close to seattle, I'd be happy to give you some motivation by helping you out (drinking your beer and watch you work) here and there!

Hey man, you can do it... I see your vision and it will be awesome when completed! Just take one thing and focus on that and when completed, move to the next thing!

If funds are tight... that one thing may be just learning how to do something... like reading up on how to convert a 2wd to a 4x4 over at yotatech. or maybe writing up a plan or end Goal and the steps to get there. It may take a few years but you can do it! Don't let it overwelm you!

[getout]

Some answers:

1. Why don't you use the existing chassis... I'd like to hear more of your reasoning. Are you uncomfortable swapping a 3.4 in there?

Using the existing chassis is the plan at the moment. The 3.4l swap would be neat but I think by the time I find a 3.4l and do the 4x4 conversion on the existing chassis, for not too much more money and probably less work, I could have the newer engine PLUS the newer cab and amenities it provides. I most likely won't go this way though and will stick with the original chassis and cab and just 4x4 it.

2. If you 4x4 it, that would be awesome. You will be lifting it. What is the hang up with the rear axle. I don't see why you couldn't keep it the way it is.... edumakate me here. Gearing can be swapped out.... the driveline can be modified... just lift it and call it a day.

The problem is the bolt pattern for the rear is set up for the 14" dually wheels with a really strange bolt pattern. If I want to run bigger tires that are designed to handle the weight from the camper, I've got to change to a bigger wheel. I can either have custom wheels made (but then the bolt pattern wouldn't match the front end) or somehow convert the rear to match a normal Toyota 6 lug wheel. I think that's what I prefer.

3. It seems that you and I are alike. Hey! I like to progress and accomplish stuff and am really good at taking stuff apart. I find that putting it back together can be challenging. Maybe we aren't alike... but I've learned that the only way to eat an elephant is to take one bite at a time. If I look at the whole thing and what needs to be done... I want to quit. But as I progress my confidence builds and before I know it, its 90% done. Are you like me?

The truck doesn't cost me anything just sitting in pieces in the driveway. I just wish it was done so I could use it but I don't have the money (or time at the moment) to throw at it until it's finished. I just do little things while I've got time but it'd be really nice to have a finished product sooner rather than later.

4. Where are you located, if you are close to seattle, I'd be happy to give you some motivation by helping you out (drinking your beer and watch you work) here and there!

I'm in Utah so unfortunately a bit far...though you're welcome anytime.

Did you ever consider retrofitting 4wd to your existing Sunrader instead of putting it on another truck? Just wondering if thats possible and how much retrofitting would cost?

4x4 as it sits is the plan...though that tacoma sure does seem nice.

From what I can gather, major expenses include the follow (guessing rough retail prices, not including tools/skills/etc.):

For the front:

'85 front axle (used) = $300

high Steer kit = $600

ifs steering box (used) = $70

front springs = $300

5 speed trans/tcase (used) = $250

flywheel = $60

clutch pedal install (used) = $100? (pedal assembly, master cylinder, etc.)

front drive shaft lengthening = $100?

shocks = $140

random other installation bits (steel, bolts, shackles, etc.) = $200

TOTAL= $2,120....plus my typical overrun of 50% ->$3,180

For the back:

lug pattern change = $100???

brake discs = $60?

calibers with cable parking brake = $120?

spring over (ubolts, steel, etc.) = $100?

shocks = $140

drive shaft lengthening = $100?

random other installation bits (steel, bolts, shackles, etc.) = $100

TOTAL = $720...$1,080 with overrun

Good information about 2wd to 4wd convertion:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/496869-2wd-4wd-conversion-faq-information-thread.html

[Stevo]

Thanks for taking the time to list what you'd have to do and the projected figures. Is your current Sunrader a manual or an auto trans?

I hear ya about the work involved. I'm rebuilding my 82 shorty Sunrader, and man, it is a heck of a lot of work! I'm almost done with the bodywork on the fiberglass body (glassed in 24 openings!) and then I'll deal with the bodywork on the Toyota front cab so I hope to be ready to shoot the primer in two weeks so I can concentrate on the interior. People keep asking me how much longer and I tell them I don't know at this point but ask me in a month.

[getout]

Currently a 3.0l v6 hooked up to an auto trans.

[MontanaChinook]

Currently a 3.0l v6 hooked up to an auto trans.

Yuck! IMO

[Mikesta]

Not a terrible combo. I've had V6's that were over 170,000 with the 3.0. However they had the head gasket recalled. Getout, did you call toyota yet and see if it was recalled and the head gasket was replaced? This may have been covered already? Sorry if it has.

Of course I prefer a 22re with a 5 speed

[brp]

I believe the gunk that connects/seals the camper to the cab is butyl rubber, you can get it in tape form or like caulk.

Not to hijack the thread, I am gutting a 21' Sunrader and putting it on a F450 7.3 diesel, as someone suggested earlier in this thread.

sunroamer4x4.blogspot.com

PS - I have many parts from my Sunrader that I am willing to give away. I'm in Mpls, MN, let me know if you need anything.

[linda s]

I believe the gunk that connects/seals the camper to the cab is butyl rubber, you can get it in tape form or like caulk.

Not to hijack the thread, I am gutting a 21' Sunrader and putting it on a F450 7.3 diesel, as someone suggested earlier in this thread.

sunroamer4x4.com

PS - I have many parts from my Sunrader that I am willing to give away. I'm in Mpls, MN, let me know if you need anything.

ooh we'll call it the Earthrader

Linda S

[getout]

I believe the gunk that connects/seals the camper to the cab is butyl rubber, you can get it in tape form or like caulk.

Not to hijack the thread, I am gutting a 21' Sunrader and putting it on a F450 7.3 diesel, as someone suggested earlier in this thread.

sunroamer4x4.blogspot.com

PS - I have many parts from my Sunrader that I am willing to give away. I'm in Mpls, MN, let me know if you need anything.

Cool. I'm excited to see how this goes. Out of curiosity, why not just build a shell from scratch? Why start with a sunrader? I would be tempted to build something bigger starting with a larger platform.

[Stevo]

...why not just build a shell from scratch? Why start with a sunrader? I would be tempted to build something bigger starting with a larger platform.

I forget the name of the website but there was a couple a few years back that built their own shell from scratch using foam sandwich sheets. I recall it took them forever, cost a fortune and ended up being super heavy. It would be interesting to know if after all the time and expense invested that they now wish they would have started with a Sunrader shell?

CORRECTION: Actually, they used Nomex instead of foam sandwich.

[Derek up North]

I forget the name of the website ...

The Super Camper

http://thesupercamper.blogspot.ca/2006/09/super-camper-inspiration-concept-and.html

[Stevo]

Yes thats it, the Super Camper! Thank you.

[Derek up North]

It's been years since I read the whole thing. Don't feel like reading it all again, though it was a pretty enjoyable read as I recall. I don't remember mention of the weight. Maybe someone reading the whole thing could post any mention of the weight.

[Stevo]

She has a new website www.hipEhabitat.com and since then married someone else and is living the life down in North Western Nicaragua now.

[getout]

She has a new website www.hipEhabitat.com and since then married someone else and is living the life down in North Western Nicaragua now.

So what you're saying is that building a custom toyota camper means my wife is going to leave me? Is this a plug for building the sunrader or quitting it all?

[linda s]

So what you're saying is that building a custom toyota camper means my wife is going to leave me? Is this a plug for building the sunrader or quitting it all?

Did you look at that site and see the pics of that lady? She's at least a 12 in the looks catagory. She was always going to move on to probably somone richer. I'm betting your wife brags to all her friends about all you do and I told you before you are surely a hero to your kids. Creating something with your own hands and from your own creativity is a wonderful thing. In todays world a rare ability too.

Linda S

[Stevo]

Yes, get the hell out now for gawd sakes so you don't have to pay spousal support (plus child support) for years while the ex-wifee person is flying here and there on expensive vacations with your money!

Just kidding, sort of.

If time is limited, and I know it is, I'd stick with the Sunrader shell. I'm saying that because I'm spending so much time rebuilding my Sunrader and have often thought to myself how much more time I'd be spending if I was building a new shell - or building a cruising catamaran or trimaran which was my original plan.

So what you're saying is that building a custom toyota camper means my wife is going to leave me? Is this a plug for building the sunrader or quitting it all?

[Stevo]

Hah hah!

Don't worry about it, build it and if she leaves ask the judge for full time custody of the Sunrader. She can have weekend visitation rights to you and the Sunrader if she pays support. You can't loose with that kind of deal!

[Stevo]

Sorry everyone but the "multi quote" function isn't working for me today.

Yes she is a cutie but land is cheap there and by the looks of the humble place they are slowly building with their own hands I'm not convinced she married a rich dude.

Linda is right about how cool it is for your kids to see you working on that stuff.

Did you look at that site and see the pics of that lady? She's at least a 12 in the looks catagory. She was always going to move on to probably somone richer. I'm betting your wife brags to all her friends about all you do and I told you before you are surely a hero to your kids. Creating something with your own hands and from your own creativity is a wonderful thing. In todays world a rare ability too.

Linda S

[Mikesta]

Hey, I disagree... punt the sunrader, keep the wife. Sunraders are just a thing. Just sayin... Priorities....

Edit: but if the wife is in agreement, keep the sunrader and finish it up... How are you doing... any progress?

[getout]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on the subject. I'll probably end up keeping both until the wife can't put up with it anymore...or I finish it...or both. We'll see how things go.

As far as progress goes, unfortunately, the last pictures on here with everything even more apart is exactly where it sits today. We played pretty hard this summer and have been working on the house so the Sunrader takes a back seat to vacations, home remodels, and extra demands on my time at work. Winter's coming again though so maybe I'll get some done in the garage.