1990 Sunrader Remodel

[getout]

Well, the project begins. Probably should have started when it would be warm a little longer but all this last week we've been pulling stuff out. So far we've taken 360 lbs worth to the dump with easily twice that much weight in the garage in more trash, appliances, and four deep cycle batteries. Not entirely sure where we're going with this but we've decided we'd like to start with a clean slate.

From the pictures, you can see I've had a little help.

I've gotten some more done but don't have pictures yet. We've got a bit of snow that's slowed the process a bit. I pulled the shower/bathroom stall out in one piece through the back window opening. I'm going to end up cutting it up to use to fill old window/accessory holes we're not going to use anymore.

The tear down should go relatively quickly. It's the build back that's going to take forever.

[getout]

A couple pictures from a trip over the summer with it so you can see it from the outside and one down the galley (with the blue foam child barrier installed).

[bajadulce]

Holly crap! Your poor wife and daughters! And that rig looked like it was in decent shape too!

I can't blame you for wanting a more functional/roomy home tho. No ideas what your plans are, but I really like the concept of 1 long useful counter and seating/chill out area on the opposite side if you can fit it in your plans. If the fridge is set on the floor next to the wheel well (rather than on top), I'm pretty sure it will fit under a counter (tho you'll have to do something about venting). I need to look up the dimensions for the interior of 21' sunrader out of curiousity. Would be fun to chime in on some ideas for a clean slate as well!

Whatever your next move, try not to go overboard w/ the project trying to make the camper nicer than it has to be. You're not going to retire w/ this camper. There will be others. Just make it comfortable and decent enough for the kids to enjoy and get back on the road. If you aren't done with the interior by August 2013, then you're spending way too much time on it. I mean it and am gonna keep harpin on you.

How's the floor? Roof?

Good idea on salvaging the old shower to fill up some unwanted holes. That's a pretty thick sheet of fiberglass and will work fantastic. And it has a smooth gel coat surface too.

... to be continued for sure.

[WME]

Deja Vu eh Baja

[getout]

Baja was definitely my inspiration on the possibilities; though I hope I don't end up going quite that aggressive. 4wd is hope for sometime far in the future but I think we can get many good years out of 2wd.

Any input or ideas would much appreciated. We've got some criteria that we're trying to work with:

Sleeping space for myself and wife and separate sleeping space for up to four kids (two at the moment, one on the way and one in the plan.).

Space for gear including but not limited to skis, white water raft with boxes and frame, climbing equipment, and generic hiking/camping stuff - depending on the season.

A toilet is a must, shower/toilet room will soon become a necessity with all these girls.

A the big one - we're on a super budget so we can't get fancy on purchases.

No problems, right. :-)

Edited November 12, 2012 by getout

[getout]

Another thought - we'll probably never be on shore power or parked in an RV park anywhere. We're typically in primitive camp grounds.

[Derek up North]

Good luck fitting all that stuff and that many people in. I think you'd better design in bunk or gaucho beds.

[bajadulce]

Terry, more like deja deja deja deja vu.

Wow, like Derek said, you're going to need to be a magician for all that. Kids like tents!

I found this on Sacramento Craig's List. Prob snatched up by now. Can't find link, but saved a pic tho:

[getout]

Haha. We actually sold a crew cab F250 for the Toyota. I'm liking the trailer idea. A little sketchy when dad's not willing to pull over on a road trip but they'll get used to it. I'll just slow down to about 30 mph or so and they can make the jump from the back window.

[Totem]

I've always thought the 80's era fiberglass mini SCAMPs would make an awesome trailer for a sunrader. They seem to share the same DNA

[getout]

I got some more gutting done. The back section is about 99% empty. The only things holding on are the metal roof supports and the gas pipe that runs under the floor from one side to the other. Sorry no new pictures. It was too dark for the camera phone when I was done.

I did do some quick Google sketch-up models of the idea. Feedback is appreciated.

Interior dimensions are about 12 1/2 feet long by 6 1/2 feet wide. The entry door is immediately behind the cab passenger seat.

The plan would be for the bunks in back and the little seat behind the driver would be removable and have adjustable heights. Not sure as to the mechanism yet. The idea would be to have extra counter space as needed and the rear, upper bunks could be used as open shelves when not lowered for sleeping (or removed completely).

The shower/bathroom stall would be moved from the current location across from the entry door to immediately behind the entry door on that side.

We store and carry most of our gear in plastic tubs, so we'd plan the space under the beds/bunks in back for carrying tubs and coolers of various sizes.

Let me know your thoughts and ideas.

And a quick question for Baja, what thinkness of FRP and insulation did you use?

Thanks to all.

Edited November 15, 2012 by getout

[gr8white]

Another thought - we'll probably never be on shore power or parked in an RV park anywhere. We're typically in primitive camp grounds.

where are you finding the primative campgrounds and how much are they charging?

[getout]

where are you finding the primative campgrounds and how much are they charging?

Mostly BLM land, off random dirt roads, and parking lots at the put-in the night before river trips. Typically free.

Other places we spend time are National and State Parks that either don't have RV hook-ups or we're too cheap to pay the extra money for a power plug. Those usually run us $5-$10/night.

We're in Utah by the way and spend most of our time in Utah, Idaho, and Colorado.

Edited November 15, 2012 by getout

[bajadulce]

Looks like a head scratcher! Tuff puzzle. I feel for you.

Does everyone absolutely need their own separate personal sleeping arrangement? One big bed is pushing it, but 2 on the floor and 1 on each bench seems reasonable without having to build so many bulky shelf beds and all the engineering those will entail. I think the girls could have a few nice roll out pink blowup back packing mattresses and easily all fit in the back. They're on vacation. They should be able to get along even if that means sleeping a little closer to one another.

Good idea utilizing benches that allow you to slide stuff under instead of cabinet style seating. This will allow more floor room for sure. You can remove the crates, place them on the counter as you mentioned, or even some outside. That's precious leg room under the benches should some of the girls sleep on the floor. Just saying bunk beds are unquestionably the solution, but consider the floor as a candidate for the lower bunk.

A big concern is where will these kids sit while in transit? That was the joke of the F350 xtra cab photochop. Totem, Bunneys, and Bufbooth travel with a full house as well. Not sure what they do.

@FRP and insulation:

We used the standard shower FRP from Home Depot. For the interior, it was used as is. For the front windows and roof, additional layers of glass were added to the panel (roller). In all cases, the FRP was used backwards (the textured side not showing) even for the interior as there were a lot of seams that would have been hard to blend in w/ the manufacturer's texture. After all the seams were blended together, some very very light texture was added. Seem to remember using 2 different thicknesses of the rigid insulation for various areas (they sell 1/4 and 1/2 I believe?). Whatever the case, the panels + insulation were a perfect thickness with the window frames.

You might consider sealing the open ends of the walls @ the window cutouts. Should water find its way past your window seals, it might protect against water seeping down your insulation. Maybe use some waterproof tape over the wall ends around windows and then cut off excess after you put windows back in (only the lower half). Fiberglassing a small strip of FRP along the top of the walls to act as a window sill and encase your walls/window cutouts would be really nifty. Basically your windows would just fit into a closed system, but this would be quite a bit of work. The lower sill prob all that's needed. Encasing the entire window cutout might be a bit overkill.

[getout]

Just saying bunk beds are unquestionably the solution, but consider the floor as a candidate for the lower bunk.

That's a great idea. It feels like one of those 'duh' moments because I never even considered it. It would be a lot easier to build a thinner, stationary shelf above than some extra, free floating bunk. Our girls are used to sleeping on the ground from camping and honestly, most of the time we won't be completely full in the back except on some types of trips.

A big concern is where will these kids sit while in transit?

This one was a struggle for us and still is. We've typically let them roam free/semi-contained in the big bed area in the back. For sure, not a safe solution at all, but I also figured that the little steel bar with the seat belt bolts glassed to the back walls wasn't going to save anyone either. Honestly, this is a topic probably best argued in it's own thread but I don't know that with the glass sunrader shell, we'll ever feel like our kids are completely safe back there.

Edited November 15, 2012 by getout

[WME]

How about a rear U shaped dinet that makes into a queen bed and two fold down bunks on the side like your plan.

As an experanced all weather camper, where does every one sit when its raining????

[getout]

How about a rear U shaped dinet that makes into a queen bed and two fold down bunks on the side like your plan.

We've got (now had) the dinet that turned queen in the back but the problem was two little girls 'sleepling' (term used loosely) in the same bed together. They just wanted to play and not sleep, so we have to separate them.

I like the idea of the U shape. We could just add another piece in the middle/back section and add a seat to it. Not sure about the table yet. I really don't like the single leg into a hole in the floor.

Edited November 15, 2012 by getout

[getout]

Bought a work light today so I got some pictures of the back about empty. I think the next step is to finalize an interior design and start glassing some holes. It's really cold here though so I think I'll have to glass on the inside and run a heater against the areas to allow them to cure.

[Roy in Jax]

I am doing a remodel on my Sunrader. The demo is the easy part. I have been working on mine since March this year. Install all the new material takes a lot of time but I enjoy the work. here are a few pic's of my project.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/minitruckcampers/photos/album/518890692/pic/list

[RHS]

I wish you guys well. I bought a sunrader this summer that someone gutted then ran out of steam had plans but it became more work than they thought it would be. DO NOT let that happen to you.

[getout]

I am doing a remodel on my Sunrader. The demo is the easy part. I have been working on mine since March this year. Install all the new material takes a lot of time but I enjoy the work. here are a few pic's of my project.

http://groups.yahoo....890692/pic/list

I don't have a yahoo account so I can't see the pictures. Could you post them on the forum somewhere?

The tear out has been the easy part for sure. Last night I just stood in the shell trying to figure out the next steps. I think if I can get all my glass work/hole patching done, I can spend the rest of the winter working on interior stuff - floor, ceiling, then walls.

I wish you guys well. I bought a sunrader this summer that someone gutted then ran out of steam had plans but it became more work than they thought it would be. DO NOT let that happen to you.

I've been really worried about that but knowing that I now have some responsibility to the forum to finish, a relatively simplistic design, and the need/desire to at least have it usable by spring makes me pretty motivated.

[bajadulce]

Interesting that the ceiling has battons. I don't think my older 1980 did. Good reference if someone needs to tack up a delaminating panel. That support is anchored through the wall with nuts/bolts and HOLES?. Would be nice if that plate was glassed to the shell's interior walls and ceiling instead. A bigger end flange as well as for ceiling might help for glassing as well. Prob too much hassle/work tho. You may be able to protect the bolts on the exterior w/ a shield/gutter to deflect any water? Assuming the exterior bolts are even exposed? Maybe they were fused/embeded into the chopped glass shell?

Is there any sun at all where the rig is parked? Prob will have to do all fiberglassing before noonish and space heaters like you mentioned.

For my own project, the interior cabinetry took very little time (maybe a week). Getting to that point, was the bear tho and definitely overwhelming at times. Not to sound cliche, but you don't eat an elephant in one sitting. baby steps and it will come together.

How was the ceiling foam? Any sign of leakage?

Also, I don't see the gas filler tubing? Maybe that's out of the pic in the foreground?

Do you plan to keep the propane in the back and/or the Ushaped seating? If so then that's one less hole to fill up. If no propane back there, then you could order a compartment door from ebay for around $20. A lot less work then filling holes.

Even if you didn't go with UShaped seating, having a compartment door back there might be helpful. At one point, thought about shuffling surfboards through a compartment door in that same location, but the front door seemed to provide adequate room. If someone had needs to transport something long like a kayak, this might make a great place for an access hatch. Might even be able to drive w/ the hatch open/kayak hanging a bit out back if dust wasn't a problem.

@Roy in Jax:

Ya, would be fun to see your project here on these forums as well. You should make a thread. Is that Linda's yahoo forum? I've heard it mentioned quite often.

[WME]

I've posted this link before, but its hard to find. At this stage in your redo it is a good read. http://www.frugal-mariner.com/Insulating.html

[linda s]

Yeah Roys pics are on my site. Over 200 pictures so his reposting them here would be quite a challenge. Easy to join yahoo groups though and you are all welcome.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/minitruckcampers/

Roys pics of the restoration of his Nissan v6 Sunrader is an incredible store of knowledge. Much like Baja's timeline on his Sunrader project

Linda S

[RHS]

I tried something different than I had done before on the last sunrader. I glued 1X2s around windows & where cabinets etc. were to go then glued styrofoam the rest of the way. Instead of paneling I found some quality carpeting w/o backing glued the carpeting to the walls. Nice look I think. Just another idea. The guy that dropped the ball on the one I bought last summer said one reason he did not finish could not decide which way to go too many ideas. Good luck

[getout]

That support is anchored through the wall with nuts/bolts and HOLES? Would be nice if that plate was glassed to the shell's interior walls and ceiling instead. A bigger end flange as well as for ceiling might help for glassing as well. Prob too much hassle/work tho. You may be able to protect the bolts on the exterior w/ a shield/gutter to deflect any water? Assuming the exterior bolts are even exposed? Maybe they were fused/embeded into the chopped glass shell?

They're carriage bolts that go through the shell which I think I have to remove in order to remove the supports. They haven't leaked yet but I also don't think they've ever been taken out. We'll see how that goes.

Is there any sun at all where the rig is parked? Prob will have to do all fiberglassing before noonish and space heaters like you mentioned.

This week is supposed to be mid to high 50's so it looks like this is the week to get a good bit of glassing done. Conveniently I've got some time off work so I'm hoping to get a lot done.

How was the ceiling foam? Any sign of leakage?

The ceiling foam was a lot like floral foam. The only leaks were around the waste water tanks. Those are going to get sealed up.

Also, I don't see the gas filler tubing? Maybe that's out of the pic in the foreground?

Gas filler? For the truck gas tank? That's under the floor and doesn't pass through the shell at all. Did yours go through the camper?

Do you plan to keep the propane in the back and/or the Ushaped seating? If so then that's one less hole to fill up. If no propane back there, then you could order a compartment door from ebay for around $20. A lot less work then filling holes.

Propane is under the rear passenger side. The hole in the back was for a house battery. I'm going to throw two batteries attached to the frame under the camper.

Even if you didn't go with UShaped seating, having a compartment door back there might be helpful. At one point, thought about shuffling surfboards through a compartment door in that same location, but the front door seemed to provide adequate room. If someone had needs to transport something long like a kayak, this might make a great place for an access hatch. Might even be able to drive w/ the hatch open/kayak hanging a bit out back if dust wasn't a problem.

Ideally, some future version of this beast will get a hatched rear window like a truck tailgate. I think I'll put that off until the basics are done and this thing is usable again, but I the large hatch would be a nice way of getting larger objects in and out of the camper.

I've posted this link before, but its hard to find. At this stage in your redo it is a good read. http://www.frugal-ma...Insulating.html

That's great. Now it's got me thinking about insulation options.

I tried something different than I had done before on the last sunrader. I glued 1X2s around windows & where cabinets etc. were to go then glued styrofoam the rest of the way. Instead of paneling I found some quality carpeting w/o backing glued the carpeting to the walls. Nice look I think. Just another idea. The guy that dropped the ball on the one I bought last summer said one reason he did not finish could not decide which way to go too many ideas. Good luck

I'm pretty fixed on the FRP idea. I don't know that we're putting carpet anywhere in the camper section. Out of curiosity though, how do the walls feel when you push against them? Any give? Have they held up ok with just carpet over foam?

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback and helping me keep motivated. Hopefully I'll have some progress to show before this next weekend is over.

[RHS]

Many of the older sunraders just had 1/2 soft foam rubber glued to the walls & ceiling and upholstery fabric or vinyl glued to the foam. Seemed to work fine, could not attach misc things to the wall like you can with paneling but certainly easier in some ways. The carpet with 3/4" styrofoam behind it stronger than that, add 3/4" wood strips very strong. I did glue carpet around front windows w/o insulation.

[getout]

Got a good bit done yesterday and today during the afternoons and evenings. Also did my first glassing (one little hole on the roof). Pulled the roof support bars off. Took the air conditioner off. That was a huge pain. Had to cut the gasket all the way around with a sawzall.

Got all the 'plugs' cut from the shower and held into place with wood (not pictured yet).

More to come over the next couple days.

Pictures here: http://postimage.org...myfb2/10d4c52f/

Edited November 23, 2012 by getout

[getout]

Edited November 23, 2012 by getout

[linda s]

I don't understand why you would remove the roof supports. Do you intend to reinstall them? They add much strength to the structure. Please explain

Linda S

[zero]

.

This week is supposed to be mid to high 50's so it looks like this is the week to get a good bit of glassing done.

Are you using polyester resin for the fiberglass or epoxy? I tend to use epoxy for my fiberglass projects that are outside. It can cure in temps down to freezing.

[getout]

I don't understand why you would remove the roof supports. Do you intend to reinstall them?

Yep. Just pulled them out to tear off the carpet and foam, grind off the rust, paint, and reinstall with a new steel support structure above. Installed, it feel much stiffer than the wood that was there before.

Are you using polyester resin for the fiberglass or epoxy? I tend to use epoxy for my fiberglass projects that are outside. It can cure in temps down to freezing.

I'm pretty sure it's epoxy. The fiberglass shop I got it from said I could glass at colder temperatures as well by adding additional hardener. From what I've read though, increasing the amount of hardener isn't always a good thing but I think it will have to work because I've got a lot more to do and it's supposed to get colder soon.

I got all the interior parts glassed. Some good and others ok. There's only one window section I'm really worried needs some structural integrity. I'm going to spend some extra time when I glass it from the outside.

I've now got itchy arms because I was messing around today without my jacket. Not a good plan.

Before: After:

[zero]

I'm pretty sure it's epoxy. The fiberglass shop I got it from said I could glass at colder temperatures as well by adding additional hardener. From what I've read though, increasing the amount of hardener isn't always a good thing but I think it will have to work because I've got a lot more to do and it's supposed to get colder soon.

I've been using West-System epoxy for years. Boats and RVs. My father-in-law is a boat builder and covinced me to switch from polyester resin to epoxy years ago.

As far as I know, you cannot put in extra hardener for a faster cure time with epoxy. Sound like you're using polyester. Polyester can harden faster with added hardener and has cure problems in temps below 50-60 F.

West-System epoxy resin # 105 comes with a choice of three different speed hardeners. # 205 fast hardener sets in one hour and fully hardens in 6 hours. # 206 slow hardener sets in 1 1/2 hours and fully cures in 10-15 hours. # 209 extra-slow hardener sets in 4 hours and fully hardens in 24 hours. All can be used down to temps of 32 F.

[getout]

I've been using West-System epoxy for years. Boats and RVs. My father-in-law is a boat builder and covinced me to switch from polyester resin to epoxy years ago.

As far as I know, you cannot put in extra hardener for a faster cure time with epoxy. Sound like you're using polyester. Polyester can harden faster with added hardener and has cure problems in temps below 50-60 F.

West-System epoxy resin # 105 comes with a choice of three different speed hardeners. # 205 fast hardener sets in one hour and fully hardens in 6 hours. # 206 slow hardener sets in 1 1/2 hours and fully cures in 10-15 hours. # 209 extra-slow hardener sets in 4 hours and fully hardens in 24 hours. All can be used down to temps of 32 F.

I'll have to ask for sure when I'm back at the shop but you're probably right. Where do you get your West System from? It always seems super expensive.

[WME]

West Systems is expensive, but it ranks with Bilstein shocks in you get what you pay for category.

quote name='getout' timestamp='1353855995' post='35477']

I'll have to ask for sure when I'm back at the shop but you're probably right. Where do you get your West System from? It always seems super expensive.