OFDPOS Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 My first post and figured here would be the best place to post it. Been looking for a Dolphin for awhile now , Craigslist , Local papers , RV places.. So I came across this one http://sacramento.cr...3350485665.html Pictures looked pretty good, high on the price I thought... Call the # talk to the guy , set up a time to go look at it today. There wasn't one thing good I could say about it , except maybe the passenger door shut ok lol.. Every corner had hit something or been hit by something,(note how the pictures were taken not showing damage) The sides are fiberglass and had holes in quite a few places some patched with silicone to just plain holes, to the I guess typical lift the cushions up top for the sleeper and dry rot in the corners, to opening up one of the little outside storage compartments in the back and find a rats nest in and around the plumbing to the rat poop in the bottom shelves next to the toilet. I opened the hood and the whole engine looked pitted , hard to explain maybe some will know what I mean when I say its like when an old motorcycle has sat out in the weather the aluminum cases etc are whitish and pitted... Front tires were LT tires but were different makes to the rear tires couldn't tell what the inside dully tires were , but the outside tires one was LT and the other was just a P tire. To me this would be something to pick up for maybe $1K and put $5K into it to make it roadworthy... I have gone to look at about 5 so far and everyone has been a pile of $hit... Are my expectations too high to be looking for a decent Toy- MH at a decent price ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Wow it does look nice in the pictures. I have inspected a couple in this area lately. I'm in San Jose but did drive to Auburn to look at one. Yes they all looked better in the pictures. You have to remember that these rigs are 20 plus years old. Pristine ones are getting rarer and rarer. Yes there are still some great ones out there but it does take time to find the right one. Be patient is all I can say. When I bought 8 years ago I wanted only an 18 foot Sunrader. Took 2 years to find one I could afford Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Looks like its made of the same aluminum siding that all other dolphins are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFDPOS Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 As for the sides being Aluminum , When you swing the door all the way open and it has that little plastic tee that slides into the catch to hold the door open , well there was a hole right above receiver (catch ) that the tee had put into the side. The hole on the pass side rear corner gouge and then tried to be filled with chalking looked like fiberglass. But on the back pic #2 obviously shows it dented (aluminum siding )and below that it is gouged through and somewhat filled with chalking. I was so pumped up to go see it and what a let down when we got there and saw it, I mean the pics look great, but once there and looked it all over then when I got back home and looked at the add again I just had to laugh , it was like this person got a professional photographer to take the pictures , I mean every one except pic #2 showing the dent and gouge on the back , everything else are all shot at angles to not show from the ripped up drivers seat , to the holes in the sides etc... The one in Auburn was it the one that has the top left marker light lens missing ? Also if it is ? The right front marker/blinker lens is missing as well. I haven't gone to look at it yet... But then again I've looked at so many online I maybe thinking of the one in Grass Valley being the one I described above... Thanks for the replies , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The one in Auburn has been gone for a while I think. Haven't seen to one in Grass valley but you can see from the pics there is water stains on the ceiling and looks like some water damage in the front cab over. There's one in Salinas worth looking at, listed monterey county I think. There's a nice Winnie listed in Visalia. Don't limit yourself to a Dolphin/ Seabreeze. I like the smooth siding of the Winnebagos better and I think the interior fabric is nicer. Sac is actually one of the better towns to be looking in. Lots comes up but it does take time Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The negative for me on winnebegos is the windows are so small. But the interiors are nicer and a different color too. Definitely looks more modern with the smooth though I prefer them for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The newer dolphins (1980) all have fiberglass sides and aluminum roofs.. Keep looking, I looked for three months, and I didn't limit to Toyhouses. The bright side, this is the better time of the year for finding lower prices. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 meh, get a sunrader. complaining about a leaky, chewed musty dolphin or a like new one being expensive is like complaining about holes in swiss cheese. move to cheddar. one piece fiberglass is much tougher and if exterior appearance and dryness is of that much importance to you, you are going for the wrong type of rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Not all fiberglass units are leak free and not all aluminum units leak. Keep looking, you will eventually find a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Sunraders can develop leaks, the difference is that these leaks are more rare as there are fewer places they can occur and when they do happen, they do not cause structural issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Sunraders can develop leaks, the difference is that these leaks are more rare as there are fewer places they can occur ... Sunraders have exactly the same potential leak points except the roof and wall seams. Most leaks I read about seem to originate from vents, windows, lights, etc, so not too much advantage. .. they do not cause structural issues. Sunraders seem to often have soft floors which most owners seem to 'cure' by throwing down some 3/4" plywood, further reducing headroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Those roof and wall seams are the ones that are a PITA to stay on top of. Window and roof resealing is very easy. I have done both. Wouldn't wish cabover seam resealing on my worst enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I think the key is to be open to most of the coaches on the Toyota Chassis. I didn't care, one way or another, and found a really great Winnebago Warrior with everything I wanted, for $10k (our offer). Mileage was on the high borderline, 60k, but the engine, and the compartment, looked almost brand new. In fact, on a scale of 0 to 10, I'd give ours a 9.5. The key for me was, being patient. We live in the Pacific NW where a lot of 89' to 94's come up fairly frequently. Did you see this one? http://inlandempire....3354481544.html Here's a couple in Florida that look (potentially) good and are priced right. http://miami.craigsl...3318764337.html high mileage on this one... http://tampa.craigsl...3354857489.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 soft floors , particle board? REALLY? what kind of sunraders do you have? California builds must have gone el cheapo... And one piece fiberglass always looks factory new unlike dinged paneling with the caveat said owener(s) never hit anything and even then a good glass job and gel coat and you would never know. So many sunrader (or Totem) haters in here... sheesh. The guy wants exterior goodness without super high cost and doesn't want a smelly wreck. To me focusing search on raders will yield results faster though I will admit they are usually more expensive but worth the cost. (IMHO) My Monterey Leisure has Marine grade 1 inch plywood flooring that was carriage bolted to the metal frame that was glassed over when i ripped up the carpet. the only thing that was even remotely soft on it was that god awful shag carpet and after i ripped that up the awesome sub flooring was revealed. There was no OSB at all in mine. I also can tell you that the overhead cab is plywood in mine; no OSB. Underneath the sub flooring in mine is a 1/4 inch rubber liner. In fact, even the thin balsa wood framing and couch was ply. Not even a bit of OSB in the entire build. So if you are seeing OSB or soft floors you ended up with a lemon; OR I got lucky and got one that was rebuilt though I doubt that based on the pictures I have seen of other same era Montereys. (they all looked identical to mine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Those roof and wall seams are the ones that are a PITA to stay on top of. Window and roof resealing is very easy. I have done both. Wouldn't wish cabover seam resealing on my worst enemy. Amen to that. I looked at a Warrior that was essentially caving in from a damage (hit something while backing out up high). Guy wanted $2600. The rig looked great except the seam damage had leaked all through and the musty smell reminded me of an old deer blind. Can a sunrader leak? I guess so but so can a glass boat if not cared for. Of course a Glass boat is easier to care for thereby making the odds that it was cared for even better. Its been mentioned in here before that most just caulk seems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 ... other times I fixed the customer's inspection complaints about the interiors in the shakedown out on the flight line after it went up for its initial flights. Ah, the dreaded 'Punch List'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryRoads Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I'm looking, too and am finding the same problem! We drove nearly 600 miles over the weekend to look at one and knew within 2 minutes that it hadn't been maintained. The oil was last changed in 2009 and both the inside and outside were filthy. This was a 1988/89 Toyota Winnebago with dry rotted tires made in Slovakia. There was duct tape everywhere, most of the access panels couldn't be opened, etc. yet the owner wanted me to believe this was a sweet deal at $5K with 83,000 miles on it. It would have required a frightening drive home through the high country of Colorado, so the decision was easy. Which leads me to wonder -- how much time does it take to keep one of these in relatively fair/clean shape? I mean if you can't be bothered to do a bit of cleaning when you are trying to sell, I'm beginning to think I'll be spending every spare minute as a slave to something I can use only a few weeks each year until I retire in 6 years. Please tell me I'm wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 i think most toyota rvs for sale have bad tires. rvs in general. Im thinking of actually flipping a few next year and thats a real concern because even if i find a great one i might die on the way home. The toyhome i got rid of had tires that were pretty suspect. When you get rid of an rv its because its sitting. I think the ride home is a key component. I wouldnt keep looking til I found one with good tires. but id make sure the spares were ready to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 well thats a weird though to describe fixing a shell as easy, yet a dented motorhome is too difficult to repair? dents in a motorhome are made of siding. you can pull it out and buy siding and put it in brand new. they even come in funky colors and glow in the dark panels. its the same stuff mobile homes are made of its at your local home depot. dents in a fiberglass shell are in general going to require a proffesional and never look the same. thats one advantage to being a standard shell. hell if it rots tear it all down and put it back up its still easier than repairing a fiberglass shell. replace the wood with fiberglass or aluminum if you want. for my personal rvs the most important thing to me to look at is the automatic transmission. If that goes thats the most expensive thing that can go wrong and its too difficult to do yourself normally. the shell? nice to know its fiberglass but thats not the most important thing. Ill tell you what, ive never worked on a car and said " thank god im not replacing the wood framing on the overhead bunk on my rv" while im all bloody and covered with cancer causing grease and mud on my back taking out the driveline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 "Which leads me to wonder -- how much time does it take to keep one of these in relatively fair/clean shape?" I think the key is keeping them covered. A roof over their tops while parked at home and maybe even a RV cover to boot. That's my plan. (The previous owners kept it that way it's whole life and it looked great when we bought it). It's only going to get wet when I'm out on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 To me Sunraders are expensive for what they are you will pay dear for the fiberglass. Heaven forbid if the floor is rotted it's glued to the body. Clean well cared for Toy homes are going to be costly most people know what they are and feel that they can get all the money and if it's really nice and low mileage rightly so. There is no such a thing as a perfect 25 year old motor home no matter who made it so you got to be ready to deal with some problems just pick the one you think you can deal with as far as repairs. I would write off wood rot to me that is a never ending problem and it's never is what it appears to be until it's all apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 "Which leads me to wonder -- how much time does it take to keep one of these in relatively fair/clean shape?" I think the key is keeping them covered. A roof over their tops while parked at home and maybe even a RV cover to boot. That's my plan. (The previous owners kept it that way it's whole life and it looked great when we bought it). It's only going to get wet when I'm out on the road. Could not agree more a little rain on a trip can't compete with weather outside all year long. A rule of thumb with farm machinery is a building at about 20% of total machinery value will pay for this self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHS Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I have repaired & rebuilt a number of toyota motorhomes. The fiberglass on most units is just siding that is glued to styrofoam & wood framing. If there is a leak in any seam rot can start. I have taken a whole side off 2 dolphins and glued new framing to the siding the styro usually holds the siding together while you work. That was easier for me than trying to repair around intereor parts. The reason Imention this is on one theser units & another that I did not go this far on some manufacturers were not carfull to lap roof material down over siding on a '91 dolphin ther was a foot long space that had no lap it must have started deteriorating at the start. I am convinced that some builders did not use properly dried framing material & started dry rot soon after mfg. Sunraders are easier to repair from my experience because there are a lot fewer places to leak. I have redone 4 Sunraders & they all had particle board framing & who ever cut out the window, vent, water heater, etc openings had a lot to drink before coming to work. The floors that I worked on had 1/2 plywood on the top but not enough framing to make it not seem to move when walked on. I have found that some angle iron can be welded to the framing underneath up against floor to help elimanate much of the spongy feal. I would rather repair a Sunrader than most of the others but most all brands can be repaired if you have the will & the time it is more an issue of labor than expense. Ripping some 1X2s & paneling is usually not that costly. Just my 2 cents worth. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Its quite easy to color match gel coat as well as work on fiberglass, unless you are a Californian in which case you inherent fear that's been forced on your by your state government and lawyers that all things cause cancer will prevent you from that sort of thing. Mind you those same lawyers will tell you that the mold spores that you inhale while living in a leaky Dolphin or cutting one apart to rebuild it are also not good for you. Keeping an RV out of the weather is a no brainer for keeping condition nice. Leaking, on a box frame sided Warrior or Dolphin, unless properly flashed is sure to result in damage. Think of it like a roofer would; water must run off not collect on a flat surface. the only way a sunrader will leak is what Derek said; concaving of roof into vents or AC. Hence why I always suggest a walking of the roof or at least an inspection on sunraders. If its got positive Arch you should be good to go. Spongy floors on a Sunrader? again I suspect California manufacturers. Mine was rock solid and that was before I added the Bamboo flooring. My SunRaders frame was made out of light cedar, pine or balsa beams; no OSB... It was owned by someone whom liked it enough to put in T9 airbags, all new water pump and electrical lines, upgrade the AC to the current coolant standards, and yet they removed the cruise control. Still waiting to have someone tell their manufacturers name on those sunraders that found OSB in the build. the roof underneath the glass on my Sunrader is made like a surf board out of honeycombed wax injected cardboardy stuff and wood framing I think. I was told it was kept in a pole barn and I believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I'm looking, too and am finding the same problem! We drove nearly 600 miles over the weekend to look at one and knew within 2 minutes that it hadn't been maintained. The oil was last changed in 2009 and both the inside and outside were filthy. This was a 1988/89 Toyota Winnebago with dry rotted tires made in Slovakia. There was duct tape everywhere, most of the access panels couldn't be opened, etc. yet the owner wanted me to believe this was a sweet deal at $5K with 83,000 miles on it. It would have required a frightening drive home through the high country of Colorado, so the decision was easy. Which leads me to wonder -- how much time does it take to keep one of these in relatively fair/clean shape? I mean if you can't be bothered to do a bit of cleaning when you are trying to sell, I'm beginning to think I'll be spending every spare minute as a slave to something I can use only a few weeks each year until I retire in 6 years. Please tell me I'm wrong! You are doing it the 80's way if you are driving 600 miles on pictures alone; you should invest in an Ipad or Iphone... Then call the seller and ask them to get a friend with an iphone or ipad to facetime an appointment with the Rig. Saves Time, money, fuel and the environment. For those not familiar with Iphone, facetime is phone based video conferencing. The guys showing you the rig can walk the rig and shove the phone anywhere you ask him to. If he is solid on selling this thing it should not be a problem and if he or she cannot find anyone with an iphone to help the sale then I would be suspicious because every Tom Dick and Harry knows someone with an iphone or something similar. If they are not tech savy they should at least know one person in thier life that is; after all they posted digital pictures on craigslist, here or ebay right? As to how much time to maintain; that's up to you. If you aren't feeling the desire to get out there and explore your nation cheaply; are obsessed with having something that looks new, or don't always find creative uses for your rig then maybe its just not for you. We use ours all the time; and with little kids its a godsend and allows us to do things that a normal car would never permit. Not enough beds at someones house ... no problem, save a buck at a wedding, no problem, place to change a diaper at a fair, no problem, place to tailgate a football game, no problem, place to have a base at any kind of huge show, no problem, place to have people stay extra beds when they visit you, no problem, deer camp no problem. If you never get out of your house to do anything then why bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 ... if he or she cannot find anyone with an iphone to help the sale then I would be suspicious because every Tom Dick and Harry knows someone with an iphone or something similar. If they are not tech savvy they should at least know one person in their life that is; after all they posted digital pictures on craigslist, here or ebay right? I guess you'd have to be suspicious of me. The only person I know with an iPhone lives in Hong Kong. A bit far to be convenient. Derek (the Luddite) up North Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHS Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I do not know how long Gardener Pacific used particle board for framing in the sunraders but I know they did through '83 could not tell after that. I have never seen particle board on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 So Karin, you found your rig from a newspaper add? Really. Seems you and Derek are fairly techno savvy to me; ergo you can receive video via your PC or phone. If the seller has a phone then you can ask them to find someone whom also has a camera phone of sorts. If they can't do that then the odds are good it's not a rig you would want to buy anyway either because its in BFE or because the owner has no friends that do. I am definitely suspicious of Derek, primarily because I know he must surely know someone with a camera phone and moreso because of his devils advocate posts. love ya derek . ;-) If someone doesn't have one nor email nor PC then at best they only have a chiltons and at worst are sitting on a crap pile due to lack of hive knowledge from our site here , yahoo or google. The odds that someone is financially well off enough to maintain a 20+ year rig without using a pc or smartphone are nigh. But let's say they somehow posted an add online; I question your logic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I've no cell phone (no signal here, so why bother) and with my slow dial-up, choosing to download a video is akin to making a career decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Ok I yield to those living in Nova Scotia, The lake deltas of Canada, Pinhole North Dakota, Buamenfargen Egypt. But come on man; even Egypt, Syria, Tunisia have internet enough to level their governments. I still suspect your internet connection is good enough to google the heck out of the internet and if you can do that then you can find the nearest city and if your toy home drives you may drive it to the nearest free wifi zone such as a Tim Hortons or Panera Bread or if desperate McDonalds. From there you can skype your rig interview or transmit your movie file of the "tour" of your Rv. A picture shows what the taker wants you to see; its quite a bit more difficult to airbrush an entire video... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Totem, the sellers of my rig did not even know how to respond to emails. There cell phone was a no frills pay per minute type. They are not actually untypical of people who are in their mid 60's and onward. Those generations are a mixed bag, some are electronics friendly but others are not. A lot of the Toy Homes sellers are from that age group. Being electronics friendly has nothing to do with having children friends or relatives that are...If you are so much of a hermit that you can't find someone with the ability to do what I am talking about I sincerely doubt you have a decent rig. To maintain it you must be close enough to a city to get parts; therefor you are close enough to someone that you have encountered that you know has one of those magic thingy majingies that can take movies and do facetime on the interwebs...mixed bag or no. There are 8 billion people on facebook... thats not mixed bag. odds are even if you arent on it you are in the photos of someone that is... also...At last Gardner Pacific! is this the maker of your sunrader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Electronic gadgits or not they can never tell you what you need to know before you make a large purchase like this. You think the seller or his friend is going to tell you it stinks in there. Or that yes they see this part is rotted. You need to see it and a long drive with no purchase is way better than a long drive to pick up a rig you put a big deposit on and you now find is nasty. I have a girlfriend right now sueing for the return of a thousand dollar deposit she put down on a Sunrader. Guy sold it and kept her deposit. You never know what people will do. If it's really nice they will have many possible buyers and if you don't get there fast it will be gone. I think many sellers would just hang up n you if you insisted on a video tour and extensive taking up of their time. For the really nice Toyota Rv's out there it's a sellers market. Fewer every year and seems like more and more people are looking for them. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Electronic gadgits or not they can never tell you what you need to know before you make a large purchase like this. You think the seller or his friend is going to tell you it stinks in there. Or that yes they see this part is rotted. You need to see it and a long drive with no purchase is way better than a long drive to pick up a rig you put a big deposit on and you now find is nasty. I have a girlfriend right now sueing for the return of a thousand dollar deposit she put down on a Sunrader. Guy sold it and kept her deposit. You never know what people will do. If it's really nice they will have many possible buyers and if you don't get there fast it will be gone. I think many sellers would just hang up n you if you insisted on a video tour and extensive taking up of their time. For the really nice Toyota Rv's out there it's a sellers market. Fewer every year and seems like more and more people are looking for them. Linda S Agreed with most of this; which is why it took me 2 years to find mine. Got my video tour prior to the 48 mile inspection drive. Rig was nice; death axles was not but such is life. I disagree with you on the video or inspection via remote bonded mechanic as well as what video would show. Bought my last 3 cars with video or remote mech inspections. Mileage rate on 600 miles to check one out is $300 plus incidentals. If you ask someone to go tape certain things like the ceilings, paneling, functionality of the amenities they should be willing to do this to get their asking price or as close to it as possible. The stink will be fixed when the tear down and remodeling is done. Mine smelled like cat pee and had severe fur balls in the circuit breaker cabinet. wasn't a deal breaker though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 And how many sellers politely declined to go through all the video hassles and suggested you get in the car and come to look at it? That's why many list on CL: to deal with locals, face to face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Cost of a mobile mechanic who I don't know is probably way more than gas to get there. Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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