zero Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Hardest part of Rear Axle project: getting the shock plate mounts.. Hardest part of converting the front: locating the 6 lug hubs... Doing the front was WAY more time consuming than the rear axle. I've done two retrofits and didn't find the shock plate mounts to be a problem. Early Toyotas use two shocks mounted in front of the axle. Later Toyotas use staggered shocks. Easy to make up new bottom plates to fit. The plates off a 1/2 ton Chevy pickup, Blazer or Suburban fit fine. Same axle tube diameter and bolt spacing as the FF Toyota. Just weld on some stubs for the shock mounts. Puting the front hubs on is easy for a later truck with a torsion bar front suspenion. For older trucks with coil springs - you redrill the 1/2 ton 5 lug rotors for 6 holes and bolt them to the six lug hubs. Then resuse the original brake calipers. For brake hydraulcs - you can mix all the parts you want (wheel cylinders and master cylinder). Just had a $20 brake proportioning valve under the hood to get the equalized properly. The load sensing vavle in back in not all the important since a motorhome is always heavy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I am looking at doing this swap soon and appreciate the info. I just need to find parts. I located my rear axle at a local yard, but in all the excitement I completely forgot about the front end stuff. Before I realized my mistake, the yard had already scrapped the donor. Thanks for the read. I know a junkyared in NY that has all the front end parts. It's an 83 Sunrader with the dually rear and 6 lug wheels front and back. I know they want $350 for the rear. Not sure about the front. All snow bound now so not sure if they'd pull parts in the winter. The junkyard is run one guy near 80 years old (with cancer). So things are "slow." Juliano's in Sodus, NY. 315-483-8576 I have some extra parts for the front but no hubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 There was a guy on here, Brian B aka Maxfabrication that had a set of front hubs for sale. I am unsure if he still does. I had sourced and received mine before he replied. he can be best reached by Maxxfabrication@ yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I'm having a mechanic take the 1 ton axle out of a 21' Toyota motorhome (with 57,000 miles) and put it in an 18' Sunrader (with 60,000 miles) that currently has the 1/2 ton rear axle. And then the mechanic will put the 1/2 ton rear axle in the motorhome that had the 1 ton axle. In summary: the mechanic will be switching one for the other. Is there anything I need to tell the mechanic beyond whats in this thread? Do you anticipate any problems going from the 21'er with the 1 ton axle to the 18' Sunrader and vice versa? He is going to look at both vehicles tomorrow so any information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! EDIT: The motorhome with the 1 ton is an 84 and the one with the 1/2 ton is an 82. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I'm having a mechanic take the 1 ton axle out of a 21' Toyota motorhome (with 57,000 miles) and put it in an 18' Sunrader (with 60,000 miles) that currently has the 1/2 ton rear axle. And then the mechanic will put the 1/2 ton rear axle in the motorhome that had the 1 ton axle. In summary: the mechanic will be switching one for the other. Is there anything I need to tell the mechanic beyond whats in this thread? Do you anticipate any problems going from the 21'er with the 1 ton axle to the 18' Sunrader and vice versa? He is going to look at both vehicles tomorrow so any information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! EDIT: The motorhome with the 1 ton is an 84 and the one with the 1/2 ton is an 82. Toyota widened the frames and the springs sit further apart by 3" starting around 1985 or 1986. So when swapping axles between some years - you have to cut off the spring-perch mounts off the rear axle and then reweld to the proper location. It should not be an issue between the 82 and 84. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 There was mention in this thread about someone needing different brackets, do you think swapping axles between the 84 and 82 can happen without me having to buy any extra stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 There was mention in this thread about someone needing different brackets, do you think swapping axles between the 84 and 82 can happen without me having to buy any extra stuff? If both Toyotas have the shock mounts on top in the same place - all parts should swap OK. Early Toyotas have both top shock mounts in front of the rear axle and later ones have staggered shock mounts on top with one behind the rear axle. The shock lengths are also different for the two versions. If the two trucks have different top shock mouniing - some extra parts will be needed. This may not apply to your 82-84 swap. The other factor is how "torch happy" the person is doing the job. If he torches off the U-bolts that hold axles in - you'll need new. Same goes for the leaf spring centerbolts if he swaps some leafs around. I assume the rig with the dually axle has more leafs in the spring stacks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I don't get it. Why would you destroy the value of the 84 Sunrader by making it unsafe to drive. Just find another 1 ton axle and install it in the 82 shorty. Your paying the fat money for a mechanic so just the cost of removing the 1 ton axle would pay for half the cost of buying the correct one. Search car-part.com for the right one near you Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 I'm with Linda; if anything the way the axles are currently is more inline with what would be acceptable. The 21 footer will now be a deathtrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I don't get it. Why would you destroy the value of the 84 Sunrader by making it unsafe to drive. Just find another 1 ton axle and install it in the 82 shorty. Your paying the fat money for a mechanic so just the cost of removing the 1 ton axle would pay for half the cost of buying the correct one. Search car-part.com for the right one near you Linda S I agree that it's probably a shame to do the swap - but we don't know what's really going on- do we? I've been offered similar "swap" deals at junkyards simply because they did not want to remove an axle and then have a truck sitting on the ground unable to be rolled. If this dually is being removed from a good Sunrader - just to get some extra bucks - then yes it's a shame but . . . the guy who needs the dually is getting what he wants for a good price I assume. The seller is taking his own risks. Caveat emptor as I see it. There are 21 foot motorhomes for sale every day with 1/2 ton single wheel axles in them. Seems it ought to be up to the buyer to find out what he/she is buying and the possible dangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I checked car-parts. There are 6 axles within 200 miles and 2 of them are only 400 bucks. Lots of wheels available too if they are not with the axles. Stevo has said before he's in the San Diego area. I'm thinking only doing one change out instead of 2 complete vehicles would cover the price. Not to mention having 2 useable vehicles instead of one. When it comes to Sunraders I'm all about preservation and restoration. Prices on these just keep going up. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I must have missed where it's said that the 21 footer is a Sunrader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I must have missed where it's said that the 21 footer is a Sunrader. Stevo has aleady said he had an 84 21ft Sunrader with the full float axle so yes I was assuming he was talking about that one. Still doesn't make sense money wise to do 2 complete swaps when axles are available. Especially if you have to pay a mechanic to do it. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I checked car-parts. There are 6 axles within 200 miles and 2 of them are only 400 bucks. Lots of wheels available too if they are not with the axles. Stevo has said before he's in the San Diego area. I'm thinking only doing one change out instead of 2 complete vehicles would cover the price. Not to mention having 2 useable vehicles instead of one. When it comes to Sunraders I'm all about preservation and restoration. Prices on these just keep going up. Linda S The only possible problem with the axles listed at car-part.com is they just about all show as 3.90 ratios and the Sunrader needs a 4.10 ratio I assume. But can't say I explored it too deeply since they were all too far away for me to use. I agree with trying to preserve the Sunraders. I'm still considering buying the 18 footer near me that's been in a junkyard for several years. Blown engine, water damage but good sound body and has the dually conversion front and back. $800. I also know of a guy that has a pair for sale but they are pretty far away in Fort Meyers, FL. He wants $5000 for the pair and won't sell just one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Car-part is wrong on the ratio's. All the full floaters are 4.10 or 4.30. Don't know where that 3.9 info came from but we asked on the toyota campers site and no one had a 3.9. My friend upgraded his Sunrader 4x4 with an axle that said on car part that it was 3.9 and in a 4x4 you know it has to match the front. Well it was 4.10. I think the axles used on the old ones with fake duallies might have been 3.9 and thats where the confusion is from. I searched 1990 toyota axle and then it just says dual wheel 1 ton no ratio.You can't search the actual year of the vehicle if it is before 1986 cause they were not full floaters Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Guys, I understand your concern about preserving the old Sunrader and always appreciate how helpful everyone is one this forum, but here is what is going on... I bought the 21' Sunrader a couple weeks ago super cheap. It had been impounded 4 years ago and sat in a storage yard the whole time. The girl that bought it bought a "new" used engine off of a private party on Craigslist and paid a tweaker mechanic to swap it out with the existing engine. He swapped out the engine and then disappeared after the first day with a partially installed engine in it. In fact, he claimed the motor wouldn't fit. Meanwhile over those several years the Sunraders engine compartment and interior was cannibalized. Seriously, it was like a monkey on a cupcake the way wires were cut and parts yanked out, etc. in the engine compartment. Also, the interior was a mess and obviously "remodeled" by some butcher. I had a mechanic look at it last week and he told me what it could end up costing (cuz I asked him for the worst case scenario) and slept on it for a couple days and decided I would sell it and get a fixer-upper more inline with my skills. Mind you, I'm not a mechanic, yes, I can change parts and do tuneups, but to get deep into mechanical stuff isn't my thing. So yesterday I bought an 82 18' Sunrader super cheap which runs like a champ (60,000 original miles), rebuilt 5 speed tranny, and $800.00 of new tires and the brakes feel really good on it too. I need to do a tuneup and other simple stuff that I can handle. I can remodel the interior the way I want and this has never leaked. Bottom line: Yesterday I got something that *I* can work with instead of something that would probably cost me thousands out of pocket to pay a mechanic BEFORE I ever got started on the interior and solar, etc. So I'm going to have him swap the axles and then sell the 21'er on eBay as a major project suitable for someone with the mechanical skills that I lack. Does that make sense now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I bought an 82 18' Sunrader super cheap which runs like a champ (60,000 original miles), rebuilt 5 speed tranny, and $800.00 of new tires and the brakes feel really good on it too. I need to do a tuneup and other simple stuff that I can handle. I can remodel the interior the way I want and this has never leaked. Bottom line: Yesterday I got something that *I* can work with instead of something that would probably cost me thousands out of pocket to pay a mechanic BEFORE I ever got started on the interior and solar, etc. So I'm going to have him swap the axles and then sell the 21'er on eBay as a major project suitable for someone with the mechanical skills that I lack. Does that make sense now? Sounds like a good plan to me. I've be interested in the one you're going to sell if you were closer - but you're not. Which model 5 speed trans do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 You can't search the actual year of the vehicle if it is before 1986 cause they were not full floaters Linda S Sure you can. Car-part often has full-floaters even on 1970s Toyotas. Some were swapped in and some came OEM from Toyota Dynas and Land Cruisers. Late 70s FJ40 Toyota Land Cruiser came with a full-floating rear and 6 lug single wheels and 15" tires. Note that's a 6 lug with a 5.5" bolt pattern and not a 7.25" pattern like the late 80s dually FFs have. The 6 lug 5.5" wheels are used on single-wheel Toyota 1 ton trucks as well as many Chevy trucks. I've also seen many FF duallies listed for late 70s and early 80s motoromes where the ads say "updated." I suppose swapped in like many of us are doing. Some though are duallies that are not FF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 70s FJ40 Land Cruiser full-floaters (hope the embedded image works this time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Sounds like a good plan to me. I've be interested in the one you're going to sell if you were closer - but you're not. Which model 5 speed trans do you have? I don't know what model the 5 speed manual is thats in this but it sure shifts nice and smooth. Do you know how I can find out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Not fullfloaters that will easily fit a toyota motorhome. Most too narrow and offset rear end instead of centered.. You'd need a driveshaft custom work. Already a big job so why make it even more difficult if you don't have to Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Guys, I understand your concern about preserving the old Sunrader and always appreciate how helpful everyone is one this forum, but here is what is going on... I bought the 21' Sunrader a couple weeks ago super cheap. It had been impounded 4 years ago and sat in a storage yard the whole time. The girl that bought it bought a "new" used engine off of a private party on Craigslist and paid a tweaker mechanic to swap it out with the existing engine. He swapped out the engine and then disappeared after the first day with a partially installed engine in it. In fact, he claimed the motor wouldn't fit. Meanwhile over those several years the Sunraders engine compartment and interior was cannibalized. Seriously, it was like a monkey on a cupcake the way wires were cut and parts yanked out, etc. in the engine compartment. Also, the interior was a mess and obviously "remodeled" by some butcher. I had a mechanic look at it last week and he told me what it could end up costing (cuz I asked him for the worst case scenario) and slept on it for a couple days and decided I would sell it and get a fixer-upper more inline with my skills. Mind you, I'm not a mechanic, yes, I can change parts and do tuneups, but to get deep into mechanical stuff isn't my thing. So yesterday I bought an 82 18' Sunrader super cheap which runs like a champ (60,000 original miles), rebuilt 5 speed tranny, and $800.00 of new tires and the brakes feel really good on it too. I need to do a tuneup and other simple stuff that I can handle. I can remodel the interior the way I want and this has never leaked. Bottom line: Yesterday I got something that *I* can work with instead of something that would probably cost me thousands out of pocket to pay a mechanic BEFORE I ever got started on the interior and solar, etc. So I'm going to have him swap the axles and then sell the 21'er on eBay as a major project suitable for someone with the mechanical skills that I lack. Does that make sense now? No cause it will still cost more to switch both axles than just buy one and put it in the 82 and you will get much more out of the 84 when you sell it. Just talking money here Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I'm not sure yet which will cost me less. I went to car-parts.com and some places that say they have it don't and a couple others want about $700 for the axle and the 4 dually wheels including shipping. That is: $300 axle + $200 4 dually wheels + $200 shipping (guestimate) = $700 + $70 or so for sales tax = $770.00. The mechanic might check out the two motorhomes side by side later today to let me know how much his labor will be to do the swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 any yard with a 3.9 "1 ton" has the fooly axle, not the real deal 4.10 full floater.... take it from me... i've been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Not fullfloaters that will easily fit a toyota motorhome. Most too narrow and offset rear end instead of centered.. You'd need a driveshaft custom work. Already a big job so why make it even more difficult if you don't have to Linda S The FJ40 full floater from a Toyota Land Cruiser is an easy swap. Same width as the pickup truck and differential in the middle. But it uses single 15" wheels instead of dual 14"s. If wanted to update an RV and had trouble finding a dually that was actually in an RV, I'd consider the Land Cruiser axle. The HD 10.5" dually rear axle from a Toyota Dyna also has the differential in the middle and is the correct width for a small truck. Kind of a scarce truck though in the USA. At least it's scarce in the northeast. I've only seen one in my life. Toyota has been making true duallies and FF rears for a very long time. Just not real common in the USA. And yes, I agree with using something that fits the easiest and is easiest to find parts for. That being said, even a dually yanked from a Toyota motorhome can require cutting, welding, and fabrication to fit if the axle comes from a late 80s motoerhome and it going to be used in an older one (like my 78). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 The FJ40 full floater from a Toyota Land Cruiser is an easy swap. Same width as the pickup truck and differential in the middle. But it uses single 15" wheels instead of dual 14"s. If wanted to update an RV and had trouble finding a dually that was actually in an RV, I'd consider the Land Cruiser axle. Sounds like a natural for someone with a Sunrader 4x4. Same BCD as the 4x4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I assume the "fooly axle" doesn't have the protrusion sticking out like a real 1 ton axle has? any yard with a 3.9 "1 ton" has the fooly axle, not the real deal 4.10 full floater.... take it from me... i've been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I'm not sure yet which will cost me less. I went to car-parts.com and some places that say they have it don't and a couple others want about $700 for the axle and the 4 dually wheels including shipping. That is: $300 axle + $200 4 dually wheels + $200 shipping (guestimate) = $700 + $70 or so for sales tax = $770.00. The mechanic might check out the two motorhomes side by side later today to let me know how much his labor will be to do the swap. The axles I looked at car-part were all within 200 miles. Some less. go get it. Labor for most of the people I have heard from is around a grand to install in a motorhome. Can't imagine it would ever be less than 6 or 7 hundred. Consider the extra at least a grand you will get for the 84 with the correct axle Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 See Post #41. Might be what they're offering. Not a FF axle, but '1-Ton'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Many of those junkyards that come up on car-parts.com search results saying they have one in stock DO NOT have one in stock. I know because I called a bunch of them and the closest that supposedly has one is in Tuscon, AZ which is 400+ miles from San Diego. So even if I were to drive all the way out there, and spend $200 on gas, plus wear and tear on my vehicle, instead of spending $200 on shipping, I'm still looking at about $500 including the 4 dually wheels + $50 sales tax + the labor to install it. My experience with junkyards in the past, and I have a lot of it, is that most of them employ buck-toothed sub-morons who will tell you anything to get you into their yard because they are morons or they don't give a rats arse about your time. Its only when you get there that you find out that they don't have what you so carefully specified in great detail to them on the phone. Keep in mind that these junkyard sub-morons are the same bunch that is updating (or not) the database at car-parts.com. So for now, the mechanic is going to check it in the next few days and get back to me with a price. Meanwhile I'm going to call some of the local junkyards in San Diego to see what they have. EDIT: Hey I just noticed a funny thing for the second time on this forum... If you use the word that starts with an "a" and ends with "ss" the forums system automatically changes that to the word "behind"! Hah hah, I'm laughing my "behind" off at that! The axles I looked at car-part were all within 200 miles. Some less. go get it. Labor for most of the people I have heard from is around a grand to install in a motorhome. Can't imagine it would ever be less than 6 or 7 hundred. Consider the extra at least a grand you will get for the 84 with the correct axle Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Amen Stevo , car-part caused me more grief than I care to talk about and I worked my behind off using it to source my parts. In retrospect Craigslist would have been more cost effective. They always think they have 1 ton take your money after swearing they "put their hand on it" only to call back with 1/2 ton or fooly. Bleh to car-part . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Many of those junkyards that come up on car-parts.com search results saying they have one in stock DO NOT have one in stock. The ads in Car-part.com are only as good as the junkyard person entering the info. That will vary a lot from place to place and even with the same place depending which person does it. Also many ads on Car-part.com are ancient and and were put up years ago. Many places do not remove the ads when a part sells. In addition . . . the duallys in Toyotas are kind of esoteric. I would not expect many junkyard people to be as knowledgable as Toyota RV owners who study this stuff. That all said - Car-part.com has been a great resource and I've had very few problems (actually none) buying parts once I discussed it on the phone and verified before buying. It might take a lot of phone calls to find something - but that sure beats any other option I know of for searching junkyards all over the USA and Canada. Also note that the term in itself - i.e. "one ton" has very little specific meaning. A Toyota so-called "1/2 ton" axle is rated to carry near 4000 lbs. Most "1 ton" axles are made to carry 7000-10,000 lbs. so the terminolgy can get confusing. If calling a junkyard, I think the protruding hub indicating a full-floater is essential in the identify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I don't know what model the 5 speed manual is thats in this but it sure shifts nice and smooth. Do you know how I can find out? I I think there are only two types of 5 speeds that will fit into a 1982 without cutting a new hole in floor for a new shifter location. So if the shifter area looks original, there are only two choices. If you look underneath -take notice to see if it's all aluminum or cast-iron. If cast-iron, it is a W50 five speed Aisin trans. If aluminum it may be a G52. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I have a friend who might have a complete axle with springs. He had it for sale a while back and I don't think he sold it. You would have to pick it up but it's about 150 miles away instead of 400. PM me if your serious and I will call him. Came out a toyota motorhome with less than 50,000 miles on it Linda Includes wheels and I think he wanted 500 for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I finally got the two Sunraders (84 w/ 1 ton axle and 82 w/ 1/2 ton axle) together yesterday and its clear that the points where the top of the shock absorbers attach to the frame of the Sunraders are in different places. So to do the swap I will need to have brackets welded on to the frame on both vehicles. A few questions please... 1) Does anyone know what you call the brackets that the top part of the shocks attach to and where I can buy them? 2) Would that bracket be the same for both vehicles? In other words, is the bolt or hole size for the top attachment of the shock absorber the same for all shock absorbers? 3) I haven't measured to see if the point where the leaf springs attach to the vehicles frame is the same length between both of them. Does anyone know if that could be a different length too? (Aaargh, I hope not because that could really complicate this axle swap!) Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.