Major roof repairs

[pelagic]

i am the new owner of a 1985 toyota dolphin. the thrill of my purchase was partially diminished when the first real rain showed me that every overhead hatch was a leak source. my immediate conclusion is that these should be replaced with marine hatches that are designed to stand up to adverse conditions. my much larger concern is how to deal with the roof itself which feels awful underfoot, and cries out for a rebuild. has anybody dealt with this issue? i would love to hear opinions. also, if anybody knows where the owner or mechanics manuals can be purchased i would greatly appreciate knowing. thank you.

[85mirage]

Congrats on new RV! There are hatch covers which extend the life of these flimsy vents/hatches. Although you might be due for a replacment of vent. To replace vent is somewhat easy depending on how much roof cement and goop is on top of hatch. You need to remove screws holding vent to roof which are on top of roof. Then pry with stiff putty knife old vent from roof. Lay new butly tape around perimeter of new vent and screw down vent to clean roof. Heat helps in removing old tape and caulk but try without first. Finish by applying bead of caulking around new vent for extra protection. Vent are available at most rv shops.

As far as your roof being flimsy and questionable. I can cofirm so at least on my 86 Shasta. There are some better built toys but if yours is similar to mine i have pity on it. My entire roof had two 1x3's laying down {giving the least strenth} to support the AC and thats it. The rest of the roof was unsupported. Made of thin sheetmetal glued to ridgid inblue insulation glued to ceiling of rv making a sandwich which is pretty strong but not meant to walk on nor storage. The heavy ac will always make a low spot in your roof and pool water leadind to leakage. They never built them strong enough to hold ac from day one.

I am in the process of slowly rebuilding mine and have finished rebuiding my roof using 2x3's layed on edge glued and screwed to 1x...4 i think . then i layed 3/8 ply on top.some picts search under burnt shasta.

[Derek up North]

The lack of anything resembling 'structure' in the stick-built homes is, I'm sure, largely due to the weigh limitation imposed by a GVWR of 6000lbs (or less)! And it's not much, if any, better in other RVs.

[pelagic]

i thank you for your information. it was clear to me when i was on the roof that i really shouldn't be there, but the vents definitely needed covering. i also assumed that the structure beneath me was little more than insulation veneered with aluminum. any plywood would have to be entirely degraded to feel that disturbed. we're tarped over now and intending to begin a rebuild from the inside out any day now. i will investigate your photos and refer to your advice with much appreciation. this dolphin really is an inspiring machine, and crying out for travel. neil

Congrats on new RV! There are hatch covers which extend the life of these flimsy vents/hatches. Although you might be due for a replacment of vent. To replace vent is somewhat easy depending on how much roof cement and goop is on top of hatch. You need to remove screws holding vent to roof which are on top of roof. Then pry with stiff putty knife old vent from roof. Lay new butly tape around perimeter of new vent and screw down vent to clean roof. Heat helps in removing old tape and caulk but try without first. Finish by applying bead of caulking around new vent for extra protection. Vent are available at most rv shops.

As far as your roof being flimsy and questionable. I can cofirm so at least on my 86 Shasta. There are some better built toys but if yours is similar to mine i have pity on it. My entire roof had two 1x3's laying down {giving the least strenth} to support the AC and thats it. The rest of the roof was unsupported. Made of thin sheetmetal glued to ridgid inblue insulation glued to ceiling of rv making a sandwich which is pretty strong but not meant to walk on nor storage. The heavy ac will always make a low spot in your roof and pool water leadind to leakage. They never built them strong enough to hold ac from day one.

I am in the process of slowly rebuilding mine and have finished rebuiding my roof using 2x3's layed on edge glued and screwed to 1x...4 i think . then i layed 3/8 ply on top.some picts search under burnt shasta.

[pelagic]

thank you derek, as an offshore sailboat owner i assume that all travelling homes are built to the highest standards. i've much to learn. i've read some of your responses to other posts. would you know where to find dolphin manuals? thanks, neil

The lack of anything resembling 'structure' in the stick-built homes is, I'm sure, largely due to the weigh limitation imposed by a GVWR of 6000lbs (or less)! And it's not much, if any, better in other RVs.

[Derek up North]

Well, the good thing about the RV life is that when your home springs a leak you generally only get a little wet at worst. Not quite the same 'worst case' as when sailing offshore.

Have you checked the 'Files' of the Yahoo 'Toyota Camper Group' for your Dolphin Manual? Manuals for just about all appliances/systems are easy to find with Google.

You can also find the Toyota Factory Service Manual online.

[Raymond]

I started tearing my ceiling out 2 days ago. think I am allergic to fiber glass insulation as I itch like a bear up a fuzzy tree. Almost done. Found major leaks around the screws going through the roof to hold some part of the AC I think. Roof has a dip in it that should hold 20 to 30 gallens. Going to remove the AC as it does not work except to blow air. Thin I am going to use a jack to slowly over a month to raise the roof.. I will put in some aluminum box beems next to the 4 curved wood beams and attach them to the beams. This should give me a much stronger roof. Should I glue the aluminum beams to the metal roof to prevent any wearing of the roof of electrolicis problems.May do the same in the back so I can put dirty cloths up in a rack and not have it do any damage to the roof.Thinking of putting the celing up with screws and finish washers so I can remove it with out tearing it to shreads. also do not want to buy a heavy staple gun to put it up. Has anyone tried this?

[Fred3]

I started tearing my ceiling out 2 days ago. think I am allergic to fiber glass insulation as I itch like a bear up a fuzzy tree. Almost done. Found major leaks around the screws going through the roof to hold some part of the AC I think. Roof has a dip in it that should hold 20 to 30 gallens. Going to remove the AC as it does not work except to blow air. Thin I am going to use a jack to slowly over a month to raise the roof.. I will put in some aluminum box beems next to the 4 curved wood beams and attach them to the beams. This should give me a much stronger roof. Should I glue the aluminum beams to the metal roof to prevent any wearing of the roof of electrolicis problems.May do the same in the back so I can put dirty cloths up in a rack and not have it do any damage to the roof.Thinking of putting the celing up with screws and finish washers so I can remove it with out tearing it to shreads. also do not want to buy a heavy staple gun to put it up. Has anyone tried this?

Raymond,

I see you have a Dolphin, as do I. We removed the roof air. See the "Minor Roof Repair" thread.

I've wondered what would be the best way to expose the roof structural members. What are the pros & cons of going through the ceiling and not the roof top?

Fred3

[Raymond]

Raymond,

I see you have a Dolphin, as do I. We removed the roof air. See the "Minor Roof Repair" thread.

I've wondered what would be the best way to expose the roof structural members. What are the pros & cons of going through the ceiling and not the roof top?

Fred3

1. you do not need to rip the roof off, seems like a harder job unless the roof needs replacing.

2. You are inside out of the rain and cold weather. And you can have a heater on. Hope you do not end up iching like a bear up a fuzzy tree. Going to replace the glass wool with foam board. Not alergic to foam board, still scratchi9ng.

3. It is easy to see if you need to replace any of the roof beams.

My roof beams were bowed downward and I wanted to make them straight again. I was going to take off the AC and raise the beams with a jack over time. Today I just attached a 2x4 across 4 of the beams and attached the jack to with another 2x4.made one small sound and the roof went up level. I am going to check on some metal box beams for want of a better word and put them across next to the wood beams. This should make it very strong and able to hold up an AC unit if we need one.

Hope to be leaving in May for a trip to Palm Springs CA where I grew up. Want to see how things have changed over the 40 years I have been gone.Then we will head to AZ to see some friends that we have not seen for 40 years.We will then grab hwy 10 to the east coast up to WV to NY to WI to see my new great grand son that I have not seen. Under stand that it gets hot during the time we will be traveling, so may decide on an AC unit. Will be gone 3-4 months and hope to see the many sights this country has to offer. If I am still alive when I have seen them Then I just might go to a foreign country like Canada. By then Quebec may be a free country and I can see two for the price of one.

[Derek up North]

IF I was undertaking this project, I'd consider using bigger/deeper 'joists' (for lack of a better term) at the roof A/C location. You're going to be ducking under the A/C anyway, so having the 'joists' lower that the ceiling shouldn't be a problem requiring the use of bandages.

[Gulfstream Greg]

I started tearing my ceiling out 2 days ago. think I am allergic to fiber glass insulation as I itch like a bear up a fuzzy tree. Almost done. Found major leaks around the screws going through the roof to hold some part of the AC I think. Roof has a dip in it that should hold 20 to 30 gallens. Going to remove the AC as it does not work except to blow air. Thin I am going to use a jack to slowly over a month to raise the roof.. I will put in some aluminum box beems next to the 4 curved wood beams and attach them to the beams. This should give me a much stronger roof. Should I glue the aluminum beams to the metal roof to prevent any wearing of the roof of electrolicis problems.May do the same in the back so I can put dirty cloths up in a rack and not have it do any damage to the roof.Thinking of putting the celing up with screws and finish washers so I can remove it with out tearing it to shreads. also do not want to buy a heavy staple gun to put it up. Has anyone tried this?

Glue and screw your new beams to the old ones. I used a narrow gauge stapler to fasten my new ceiling to the beams. This stapler uses a compressor but I think there are some electric ones also. Bond the ceiling to the beams with ProBond adhesive for paneling or a similar product. If you do everything right and its all water tight you should never have to pull it apart again.

There should not have been any screws going through the roof to hold down the A/C. All the fasting mechanism actually goes through the vent hole the A/C sits over. A seal sits around the hole between the A/C and roof. Without seeing any pics it sounds like someone installed the A/C incorrectly.

Did you pull the ceiling off wall to wall or just in areas. To make your new box beams they should span all the way across and sit on top of the walls. Just curious about that. Also are you saying that your roof uses the fiberglass instead of foam for the insulation? Here are some pics of before and after. The new 1/4 Luann is bonded to the old with ProBond and stapled to the beams with a narrow gauge stapler. The first pic is after I peeled off the compromised interior skin, the second is my paper template, the third is the finished product waiting for stain and trim.

These roofs are really not OK to walk on. Crawl when you can and try not to put allot of weight in one spot. Also the metal roofs can develop micro holes from corrosion. A good rubber coating on the top when your done would be good to stop that. If your worried about electrolysis glue some thin rubber membrane along the top of the beams such as what they use for pond liners. You can buy it by the foot at the big box home stores.

[BobBeery]

Maybe I'm lucky. I have an 87 Dolphin. When I replaced a roof vent I found all four sides of the square roof opening were wood. But when I took off the roof AC to replace the gasket, I found the front and back of the square roof opening to be metal. Looks like I have two metal beams under my AC. I can definitly say that there is no sag and while I was on the roof working that it was solid to walk on. Too bad my AC is only 7000 BTU.

[waiter]

Bob;

7000 btu, does it do the job???

I was looking specifically for smaller units, in the 7000 range as these can easily be run from some of the portable generators.

[WME]

The "new 7000 BTU" unit is 9200 BTU with the same current draw. That many BTUs should do just fine in every place but Death Valley in Augest.

wme

Bob;

7000 btu, does it do the job???

I was looking specifically for smaller units, in the 7000 range as these can easily be run from some of the portable generators.

[Raymond]

Glue and screw your new beams to the old ones. I used a narrow gauge stapler to fasten my new ceiling to the beams. This stapler uses a compressor but I think there are some electric ones also. Bond the ceiling to the beams with ProBond adhesive for paneling or a similar product. If you do everything right and its all water tight you should never have to pull it apart again.

There should not have been any screws going through the roof to hold down the A/C. All the fasting mechanism actually goes through the vent hole the A/C sits over. A seal sits around the hole between the A/C and roof. Without seeing any pics it sounds like someone installed the A/C incorrectly.

Did you pull the ceiling off wall to wall or just in areas. To make your new box beams they should span all the way across and sit on top of the walls. Just curious about that. Also are you saying that your roof uses the fiberglass instead of foam for the insulation? Here are some pics of before and after. The new 1/4 Luann is bonded to the old with ProBond and stapled to the beams with a narrow gauge stapler. The first pic is after I peeled off the compromised interior skin, the second is my paper template, the third is the finished product waiting for stain and trim.

These roofs are really not OK to walk on. Crawl when you can and try not to put allot of weight in one spot. Also the metal roofs can develop micro holes from corrosion. A good rubber coating on the top when your done would be good to stop that. If your worried about electrolysis glue some thin rubber membrane along the top of the beams such as what they use for pond liners. You can buy it by the foot at the big box home stores.

Update: went with 2x3 lumber on it's side. The metal box beams were 30.00 each and decided too much money. Could not put them in as one piece, or put the ends on the wall with out chiseling the spacers between the old beams. Where the two ends come together I will put a length of 2x2 on the other side. I will take them down and glue everything after it gets back from break repair and the roof sealed. Was going to seal it my self, but for 4 or 5 hundred I will let the shop do it. They will also include a safety check of the gas line and a few other things. One thing the man who will do the roof told me was to ger one of the electeic mulit tools. They come with scrapers and make the removal of the old caluk much faster with a lot less work if I was going to do it myself. Looking forward to getting the 120 and 12 volt wires in and getting the ceiling backup. Will paint everything that doesn't move and send some pictures. When I railed the roof with the new beams it moved the roof close to 2 inches.

[Pluvrr]

I started tearing my ceiling out 2 days ago. think I am allergic to fiber glass insulation as I itch like a bear up a fuzzy tree.

No, you're not allergic to fiber glass insulation. It is made from threaded recycled glass and other material. It is also very dangerous. Not only does it cause skin irritation with contact but breathing the fibers can cause cancer. Use protective gear whenever you are handling fiber glass insulation!!

http://home.howstuff...-insulation.htm

http://www.healthyhouseinstitute.com/a_681-Fiberglass_Insulation_Use_With_Care

Edited January 31, 2011 by Pluvrr

[Derek up North]

... can cause cancer..

There seems to conflicting info, even from the same source (same document even!).

"... the International Agency on Cancer Research (IACR) removed fiberglass from its “possibly carcinogenic to humans” list in 2001."

"Fiberglass emits a synthetic material called styrene, which is a possible carcinogenic according to the IACR and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency."

Source:- http://www.lungusa.org/healthy-air/home/resources/fiberglass.html

But wearing a mask has never been proven to cause cancer.