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Rehabing my 1990 Toyota Winnebago (Project Sog) Advice desperately neede!


Mikesta

what should I do to this thing?  

  1. 1. What should I do to this thing?

    • Locate a Bulldozer and crush it
      0
    • rip it down to the frame and start over
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    • Make it a flat bed work truck
      0
    • Make it into a Macy's parade float
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    • Build it back up but with steel reinforcement in the roof
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    • fiberglass it and call it a day
      0


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Hi everyone,

I found this motorhome locally for $500. I bought is sight unseen, it was 80 miles away. The PO (previous owner) said that it needed a starter. I was willing to take the risk. He also said it was gutted, but the toilet and the shower were there.

When I went to pick it up it was rough. The hood was crunched in, there were about 50 bumper stickers, spraypainted windows, It was Soggy beyond anything I'd seen. It reeked of mold and when entering the floors were warped.

After towing it home, I put it undercover for a few weeks. Last week I went to do the starter job. No easy feat as we all know. That 3.0 engine is stuffed in that bay. I removed the swaybar to get it out.... and get this... it was already loose. I think the PO got aggrevated. 4 Hours into the job, I went to start it up to see if my investment payed off. It hadn't ran in 2 years. It started first crank!

______

Today after hanging with friends till 4pm, we came home and I pulled it out. I was able to remove all the trim that goes on the corners.. Some of it with a torch and puddy knife. Then I removed the bracing under the cab over bed, then I removed the staples in the front buttom joint. the top started to peel back and the wood..... after sitting 2 years... deteriorated! Black mold all over the place. The roof is all but caved in!

I really don't know what I'm doing, but I am making notes of the lumber and styrofoam that is in there. I'm hoping anyone can help me do this rebuild. I'm hoping to the the roof completely peeled off by Wed night.

I'm going to put all my pictures somewhere, just dont know where yet :)

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$500 bucks for a working 3.0 drive train + some RV siding seems like a decent deal. :)

Hmm where to start? You got a plan? And do you like the exterior lines/dimensions/size? Somehow your avatar doesn't seem to reflect that of your typical RV retiree? That's a lot of overhang past that rear axle, tho par for the course from most of the rigs I see. Paving contractors and RV manufacturer's must have blood ties because somebody is causing those big scrapes I see at my local gas station's driveway/entrance.

You look handy and so this project only depends on how much energy you wish to expend. The million dollar question is how much of these composite walls have water damage? Obviously the cabover looks shot and you'll have to strip this region of the interior to the bare fiberglass skin. Maybe some of the walls (composite construction) are salvageable? The roof looks for sure toast (If/when you end up cutting out the roof or any other part of the coach, be sure to save the "skin" as you can reuse that).

I am not too familiar with the construction of these, but it appears to be composite (i.e. fiberglass sheet laminated to foam + an interior skin and not anything that can be manufactured with ordinary home supplies/equipment).

If I were to tackle something like this, I'd suggest stripping the foam/interior skin back at all seams a good 4" and then fuse those seams with glass on the inside and out (getting rid of the trim on the exterior of course). If the walls are shot, strip the whole interior to the bare fiberglass skin and reinforce where needed. Fiberglass channel works great, but isn't as easy to find as some cheap 1x's. Tho some nice ABS pipe sliced in half grinded and glassed to the walls might make for some damn strong ribbed support! Looks like I see a plumbing truck parked next to the rig?

As for the overhead bunk support, not sure what to tell you there. Sunrader did a great job in that there is a 90 degree channel that provides a good deal of perimeter support (about the only thing positive I can say about the Sunrader design). No clue as to how Winnies support their overhead. Might have to get creative here. One thing is for certain.. AXE those 2 windows!

Anywho, I'd definitely try to get as close to a one-piece construction as you can (i.e. no trim pieces covering seams etc.)

Keep us posted.

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Hey Bajadulce,

Yes, a $500 Motorhome with a toyota chassis.... is a score! I am not a RV Retiree by any means. I actually want to build it for my kids 3,5,6 and use it out till they're in the 20's. I have all the tools, but no experience with the shell of the motorhome.

The sides and top are steel. The top and front have wood 1x2 or 1x4 or 1x6 supports throughout with foam in between. This isn't a fiberglass shell by any means, however I do like the sunrader's design much more... I have one in the back that we will use while we get this one going.

I think the walls have 30% damage. From my observation what Winnebago did was glue wood and styrofoam to the metal skins. The roof rests on the walls, this includes the inner laminated walls so the roof will have to somehow be delaminated or new sheet metal purchased. The wall skins are 96% perfect with a few krinkles and can be reused, but I need to figure out how to separate and add new supports in where the old ones are rotting.

Thanks for your comment, I definitely "get" to redesign the whole interior as there is none in there to start with... I want all the amenities as original, but need to design a sleeping system, maybe something that comes out of the floor or something that you remove from under the cab over bed and click into the walls. We'll see!

$500 bucks for a working 3.0 drive train + some RV siding seems like a decent deal. :)

Hmm where to start? You got a plan? And do you like the exterior lines/dimensions/size? Somehow your avatar doesn't seem to reflect that of your typical RV retiree? That's a lot of overhang past that rear axle, tho par for the course from most of the rigs I see. Paving contractors and RV manufacturer's must have blood ties because somebody is causing those big scrapes I see at my local gas station's driveway/entrance.

You look handy and so this project only depends on how much energy you wish to expend. The million dollar question is how much of these composite walls have water damage? Obviously the cabover looks shot and you'll have to strip this region of the interior to the bare fiberglass skin. Maybe some of the walls (composite construction) are salvageable? The roof looks for sure toast (If/when you end up cutting out the roof or any other part of the coach, be sure to save the "skin" as you can reuse that).

I am not too familiar with the construction of these, but it appears to be composite (i.e. fiberglass sheet laminated to foam + an interior skin and not anything that can be manufactured with ordinary home supplies/equipment).

If I were to tackle something like this, I'd suggest stripping the foam/interior skin back at all seams a good 4" and then fuse those seams with glass on the inside and out (getting rid of the trim on the exterior of course). If the walls are shot, strip the whole interior to the bare fiberglass skin and reinforce where needed. Fiberglass channel works great, but isn't as easy to find as some cheap 1x's. Tho some nice ABS pipe sliced in half grinded and glassed to the walls might make for some damn strong ribbed support! Looks like I see a plumbing truck parked next to the rig?

As for the overhead bunk support, not sure what to tell you there. Sunrader did a great job in that there is a 90 degree channel that provides a good deal of perimeter support (about the only thing positive I can say about the Sunrader design). No clue as to how Winnies support their overhead. Might have to get creative here. One thing is for certain.. AXE those 2 windows!

Anywho, I'd definitely try to get as close to a one-piece construction as you can (i.e. no trim pieces covering seams etc.)

Keep us posted.

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I think the walls have 30% damage. From my observation what Winnebago did was glue wood and styrofoam to the metal skins. The roof rests on the walls, this includes the inner laminated walls so the roof will have to somehow be delaminated or new sheet metal purchased. The wall skins are 96% perfect with a few krinkles and can be reused, but I need to figure out how to separate and add new supports in where the old ones are rotting.

My guess is the roof skin is aluminum and the sides fiberglass sheeting. I think your right on how the the walls, roof and floor are constructed. A sandwich all glued together. The frame is screwed or nailed together and the sheathing glued to the frame and foam core. That gives it its strength and reduces the weight. Repair is a challenge because to do it right you need to re-bond those layers together. Each panel was built on a table, compressed under force till dry then installed onto the chassis. I am not a fiberglass expert but my guess is the same size panel in fiberglass would weigh more.

Our conquest is built the same way, Fiberglass sheet, 1/8 inch Luann, foam core, then 1/8 inch Luann interior sheathing but the framing is aluminum. I was lucky there, no major framing re-construction. If the outer Luann was compromised where it bonds to the foam, well I did not go that far. So I peeled off the interior skin as best as possible. Applied PROBond construction adhesive (for foam) and used a narrow gauge air staple gun and shot the interior sheeting to the aluminum framing.

As a note, some of the winnies had large fiberglass corner covers on the outside instead of the narrow screwed on ones with the rubber insert covering the screws. Looks like a better way.

Interior cabinets are sometimes built the same sandwich style wood framing but without the foam core. Again the frame screwed together with the sheathing glued and stapled to the framing. The weight reduction over solid plywood are the reasons why. Imagine all your cabinetry made out of solid plywood as opposed to hollow core framing.

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Cool beans ,let it burn! Happy to see another at it. Very good to hear you have metal framing. It should make the repaneling job alot easier. Ive glued exterior of new blue foam insulation where it touches fiberglass and interior of foam touching paneling with foam adhesive in caulk tubes. Where paneling touches framing and any wood i used pl400 adhesive from depot/lowes. And used staples as well. I was scared to use contact adhesive but bet you get a better adhesion.

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update:

I've removed the roof... spend a few hours after work... 3 total removing the roof. It was pretty easy. Noting where the foam and hard wood went. I don't think I'll replace it exact. The side wall metal is rusted.... everywhere the putty knife went was wet! This thing was probably 500lbs heavier due to the sog of water that has been stuck in the wood.

I have a pretty good idea of how to put it back on. its all 4x8 18guage steel panels. Should be really easy to stick back together, but we shall see.

I went back as far as the back wall... leaving it there for structural support till I can aquire some steel panels and the necessaries. I think the next few weeks will be research and removal R&R. I'd like to make the back window larger as well and am scouring craigs for a larger window. Camera's are great but I Like utilizing the old school rear view mirror.

This thing is Sog. Its restore name will be Soggy. Here are some pictures.

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Edited by Mikesta
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Just a quick reply. I own www.nwcanopies.com. That truck in the background is actually what we use to set up the bigguns. The canopy you see will house 5 21' Toyota motorhomes. Its a 25 x 50. I have 2 Motorhomes, 2 Jetski's, 1 boat and the bucket truck under it. I like keeping my equipment dry. And this motorhome that I have... if it was kept under one of these bad boys, it wouldn't have the problems it has. It would be bone dry and probably worth 10k like the others in good shape.

The avatar, is a 1987 FJ60 Landcruiser with a 2.5" OME lift, H55 Tranny and a ton of other upgrades, It was my favorite landcruiser

The Frame of this Motorhome is Steel, its rusted and I think I'll use 'the must for rust' phospheric acid.... comes in a spray bottle. It can be obtained at any home depot and will neutrilize the rust. I wish it was the aluminum frame... I think?

The roof and sides are 18 guage steel panels. There is no fiberglass anywhere.

The builder messed up. The double sided caulk tape was only removed for the lower half... the upper half was still taped... which means it contributed to the state of this motorhome... Soggy! They should have removed the other half of the tape to allow the caulk to adhere to the upper skin! I'm sure of this... but prove me wrong!

I want to thank you guys for your tips about the glue / staples / aluminum / and other suggestions. I will definitely take your advice when putting it back together.

Edited by Mikesta
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I would think somewhere someplace you could just buy a whole new sheet for the roof and put it on your new framing. Winnebago is still in business, maybe they would sell you one considering they botched the sealant. I bring it up, 1 because your roof looks like a tractor ran over it and 2 those metal roofs are prone to getting micro corrosion holes in them and will siphon water in.

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I would think somewhere someplace you could just buy a whole new sheet for the roof and put it on your new framing. Winnebago is still in business, maybe they would sell you one considering they botched the sealant. I bring it up, 1 because your roof looks like a tractor ran over it and 2 those metal roofs are prone to getting micro corrosion holes in them and will siphon water in.

HAVE A GREAT TIME , It is actually fun

redone my bunk area in oak 1/8 plywood, and put hellsman spar varnish, it is beautiful !

My interior was rotten right down to my wood framing.

I'll call my 1983 toy Hunstman the MONEY PIT !

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000059894165

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HAVE A GREAT TIME , It is actually fun

redone my bunk area in oak 1/8 plywood, and put hellsman spar varnish, it is beautiful !

My interior was rotten right down to my wood framing.

I'll call my 1983 toy Hunstman the MONEY PIT !

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000059894165

I cannot get in to see your pictures.

Good Call Greg.... I'll give Winnebago a call.... as far as the roof... Its just 4x8 sheets of 18 guage steel. I could do Aluminum, but does it curve as well? I'm estimating about 9 sheets needed from back bumper to under bed.

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I went to their website and they had the Microfiche online!

http://www.winnebagoind.com/service/wincd/1990/90wt319rb.pdf

Thats the Model I have. The Skin will be the hard part, but once that is done, the rest will be sourcing:

Stove (no oven)

Fridge

Sink

Bath Sink

Custom cabenetry

Table

Carpet

Hotwater heater

Generator

I'm going to call them tomorrow and tell them about the defective workmanship and see if they will foot a couple bucks (doubtful) for the rebuild.

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I cannot get in to see your pictures.

Good Call Greg.... I'll give Winnebago a call.... as far as the roof... Its just 4x8 sheets of 18 guage steel. I could do Aluminum, but does it curve as well? I'm estimating about 9 sheets needed from back bumper to under bed.

Our Conquest has a 1/4 inch Luann roof with a rubber covering, no metal. I was surprised when I found that out. Just another option for you instead of doing a metal skin. I need to re-coat it just as a preventative. My leak was at a seam where the front window area which is metal meets the rubber roof. Someone did a repair there one time and botched it and so it leaked. The rubber roof itself is in fairly good shape after 10 years. They have a kit for doing that and also you can buy the whole roof replacement membrane kit which I might also do. Re-coat would be easy way though.

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Our Conquest has a 1/4 inch Luann roof with a rubber covering, no metal. I was surprised when I found that out. Just another option for you instead of doing a metal skin. I need to re-coat it just as a preventative. My leak was at a seam where the front window area which is metal meets the rubber roof. Someone did a repair there one time and botched it and so it leaked. The rubber roof itself is in fairly good shape after 10 years. They have a kit for doing that and also you can buy the whole roof replacement membrane kit which I might also do. Re-coat would be easy way though.

Try my pics now,let me know if you can view them now.

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Try my pics now,let me know if you can view them now.

I tried, fail. If you made a setting change, you may need to relink it. I feel bad that your going through all this trouble, but I'd love to see what you did.

Gregg, I've done a little research. If I was to make the roof exact with a 22 guage skin (i think) styrofoam, laminant etc... it would cost me between $1500 and $2000. I am toying with modifying it to take Luann plywood. I'm still looking for local suppliers of this wood and have yet to get a price quote. I'm also thinking about doing epdm sealant, but I'm not sure yet. Still rather green to this whole process. Luann is what the motorhomes are made from now.

FYI: 9 Sheets of 4x8x22 guage steel is right around $800! Thats just the steel.

I'm taking the next 13 days off work. I'm hoping to get some progress made on it! Thanks!

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I tried, fail. If you made a setting change, you may need to relink it. I feel bad that your going through all this trouble, but I'd love to see what you did.

Gregg, I've done a little research. If I was to make the roof exact with a 22 guage skin (i think) styrofoam, laminant etc... it would cost me between $1500 and $2000. I am toying with modifying it to take Luann plywood. I'm still looking for local suppliers of this wood and have yet to get a price quote. I'm also thinking about doing epdm sealant, but I'm not sure yet. Still rather green to this whole process. Luann is what the motorhomes are made from now.

FYI: 9 Sheets of 4x8x22 guage steel is right around $800! Thats just the steel.

I'm taking the next 13 days off work. I'm hoping to get some progress made on it! Thanks!

If I ever take off my existing rubber roof to replace it I will apply some sort of water proofing primer to the Luann before I put the rubber back down. I will use the Dicor system here http://www.go-rv.com/coast/do/catalog/page?index=A&pageNext=TRUE&dealerId=1979&pageNum=126 and here http://www.dicor.com/

Worth a look at as it may be far cheaper than using metal. Not sure where to find 1/4 inch Luann but the 1/8 inch stuff is at just about any home depot or Lowe's and you could bond it together. !/4 inch will give the roof support when you have to crawl around up there. I think even if I were doing metal it would have the 1/4 inch under it for that reason.

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If I ever take off my existing rubber roof to replace it I will apply some sort of water proofing primer to the Luann before I put the rubber back down. I will use the Dicor system here http://www.go-rv.com/coast/do/catalog/page?index=A&pageNext=TRUE&dealerId=1979&pageNum=126 and here http://www.dicor.com/

Worth a look at as it may be far cheaper than using metal. Not sure where to find 1/4 inch Luann but the 1/8 inch stuff is at just about any home depot or Lowe's and you could bond it together. !/4 inch will give the roof support when you have to crawl around up there. I think even if I were doing metal it would have the 1/4 inch under it for that reason.

I ended up going to dunn lumber and picking up the 5.7 Laun board... 8 sheets. I took a picture, but its on my wifes phone. I'll post it up later. The board is pretty flimsey... I'll have to figure out the support structure. Might have to get some 3/4" thin square tube or use some 1x's. I've read where people double the Laun as well. I'll check out those links. Thanks Greg

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I ended up going to dunn lumber and picking up the 5.7 Laun board... 8 sheets. I took a picture, but its on my wifes phone. I'll post it up later. The board is pretty flimsey... I'll have to figure out the support structure. Might have to get some 3/4" thin square tube or use some 1x's. I've read where people double the Laun as well. I'll check out those links. Thanks Greg

My roof is 1"x2" square tube aluminum heliarced at the joints and the rafters are 24 inch on center, foam core sandwich. I do believe the top layer is 1/4 inch but it might be 1/8. If your on the roof it feels rigid but you can tell that too much weight on one knee might cause a problem. So when its all glued together it becomes very rigid and any compression like from a knee is into the foam. I have no idea what type and R value the foam is. Looks like the foam panels that are used today on residential roofs as insulation. I would think a wooden frame glued and screwed together, pre-framed for vents etc and the lumber milled to the same height (at least 2" high) of what ever foam you can get for the core would work really well. I noticed on the Dicor site that one of the roofing systems states that the surface needs to be water soluble. So much for my thinking to water proof the Luann prior to applying the rubber roof. I believe there are some water based contact cements that have a long working time and will glue foam to wood. I think the manufacturers frame for the vents etc and cut the Luann out later with a router or rotozip. It all sounds like an easy process!

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Yes, I'v seen that in the layout. I'll likely do this, but in Steel. The home will probably be 2-300lbs heavier.

I tore into the side panel.... all the panelling needs to come out! The tops of all the paneling have black mold. There is surface rust on all the steel.

I'll take a flap wheel to the rust, then "mustforrust" it. I'm still trying to tweak my mind into designing the roof structure. Kinda want to overlap, top and bottom panels. The styrofoam will be upgraded to the R13? rated sound proofing wall board. I also need to figure out where to get the bead that will get stapled to the wall tops and hide the corner around the home.

I'm hoping to have this roof pretty much zipped up in a week. We will see. Floor will be much easier.

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I also need to figure out where to get the bead that will get stapled to the wall tops and hide the corner around the home.

Are you talking about the interior corner rubber molding between the roof and walls? I just ripped mine out over the bunk area and replaced it with 1/4 round moulding cause I could not replace it. But it has to be available somewhere. The coach builders buy it from someone. It would be nice to know where to get all these specialized components. I do not think they are made by the coach manufacturer, manufactured and sold by someone else for the industry.

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Are you talking about the interior corner rubber molding between the roof and walls?

I was wondering if that rubber molding was neccesary? It looks like it keeps the paneling from touching each other and allows movement. Dont think i'll use the stuff but i thought i remember someone saying its neccesary for vibration or someting

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Love the pics of the bucket ripping the roof off and the thing on fire! :)

The sides and top are steel.. This isn't a fiberglass shell by any means
That's too bad and sorta limits what you can do as well as spells more work to get this thing water tight. This is definitely a project you got yourself there! You might consider rebuilding from scratch. :wacko:
...I think the walls have 30% damage.
At this stage, 30% seems like a lot especially if this is composite laminate construction. Modern composite laminates have exceptional strength as long as their laminates remain fused together. ...sigh.. more work. Looking more and more like a complete rebuild.
The wall skins are 96% perfect with a few krinkles and can be reused, but I need to figure out how to separate and add new supports in where the old ones are rotting.
??? There's framing too? Sounded as tho you described a composite laminate panel construction? Did they gouge out the panel to add these supports? Or does the paneling come right to the supports? If the paneling comes right to the supports, there must be some kind of trim on the outside at these seams..? Confused.
The side wall metal is rusted.... everywhere the putty knife went was wet!
Why was there metal in the first place? And if so why wouldn't it be aluminum? Very strange choice of materials for something built post 1990.
...till I can aquire some steel panels and the necessaries.
I think you should look into a new alternative now that you've decided to build this from the ground up :). There's no reason to replace with what they did.

If I ever take off my existing rubber roof to replace it I will apply some sort of water proofing primer to the Luann before I put the rubber back down.

You ought to laminate the top of that roof with fiberglass once you strip it to the bare wood. This would give the roof some additional strength too while providing a 100% waterproof outer shell. I've done a lot of similar waterproofing construction in the greater Monterey Bay and can get you the materials you need (if not have spare stuff laying around) + give some pointers/help. After you've "waterproofed" the plywood, you could put rubber back down I suppose, but don't like the idea of water potentially getting trapped between the two surfaces should the rubber fail. Typically with most decks, a light texture is shot atop the fiberglass and then an elastomeric protective UV paint applied over that. Whatever the case, I think your plan to remove the rubber and see what your dealing with (preventive maintenance) is a good call. Water damage is one of those things you have to catch before it "shows" itself. Usually it's too late by then. Sounds as tho your roof is in good shape, but would be worth the peace of mind to beef up the protective shell. Don't hesitate to call me if you need a 2nd pair of eyes to check things out or heckle you. :)

My roof is 1"x2" square tube aluminum heliarced at the joints and the rafters are 24 inch on center

Now there's a winning design and what you (Miketa) should try to copy!

Yes, I'v seen that in the layout. I'll likely do this, but in Steel. The home will probably be 2-300lbs heavier.I tore into the side panel.... all the panelling needs to come out! The tops of all the paneling have black mold. There is surface rust on all the steel.

Sounds like you might just be better off rebuilding this shell from scratch as crazy as that sounds. Looking at the lines on your rig (what's left of it) there isn't much of any curvature nor any overlaps etc. It appears to be just straight panels and you can use these as templates or even modify the dimensions/height etc to your liking. There are some fantastic fiberglass laminate composites out there (tho they can be expensive for the exotic cores). Composite Laminates would be ideal, but a moderate frame + skin would prob be cheaper + little easier to construct.

Myself, when I rebuilt the roof + front compartment of my own shell, I used these sheets of fiberglass reinforced plastic (fpr or "shower walls") and added 3 layers of fiberglass matte to one side. Not sure if I made a post about it, but basically the roof skin was glued to a light timber frame and then all mating surfaces fiberglassed to that frame. The roof was then placed atop the cab and the adjoining side supports built. No nails/screws penetrating the surface at all and NO covered seams etc. We had a really really wet winter and it was bone dry. Pics below

Older pics of homemade/backyard wall/roof construction described above:

roofglass.jpg

Here's the glass laminated to the shower skin and drying in the sun.

roofframe00.jpg

Here's the light frame (just ripped birch cabinet plywood as I am a cheapskate and don't like to spend any money. Obviously aluminum tubing or some fiberglass channel/composite (think ladders) or even some solid hardwood would make a better frame.)

roofglue.jpg

Here's the panel being glued to the frame (liquid nails etc)

roofframe01.jpg

Here's a pic of the excess glue being scrapped (that brown wad) and then glass strips added to all mating surfaces + the timbers themselves.

roofframe03.jpg

Here's a pic of the roof being held in place with some 2x's until the side supports can be added.

roofframe05.jpg

and here's the roof in place w/ adjoining side structure etc. Hard to see the glass strips/reinforcements, but they're there.

rooflines.jpg

final exterior roof lines

standonroof.jpg

And of course a pic of me standing on it (the one and only time)

I might suggest something like this with your walls as well. Ya this isn't as professional as an industrial composite, but its "doable", cheap, light, strong, and 100% waterproof as all the seams are glassed etc. This will take more time, but the lines on your rig look pretty straight forward and very box like (which is the modern look!). Take your time building the shell. It would be a good idea + some peace of mind to let it sit through a winter or some summer storms (depending on your part of the country) before building the interior/adding wall insulation/skins etc. You have to get it 100% waterproof. After that everything is child's play.

Anywho... sorry for such a novel length post. Looking at the state of your rig + the confidence you display in being able to put this back together, just trying to suggest an alternative and inexpensive route with everyday materials rather than working with things that will require rubber seals, metal, trim pieces etc and a 3rd party.

Cool beans ,let it burn! Happy to see another at it
HAVE A GREAT TIME , It is actually fun
:ThumbUp::weight_lift::headbonk:
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Wow... thanks for taking the time to go throught this thread and add your 2 cents.

Tell you what, I'll buy the beer, come on up to seattle and we'll knock this out in a weekend.

I have many more pictures to show you guys.... I'm suprised no one has gone to this level before on this forum? At least you will see how the winny is made up internally.

You've given me some more ideas about fiberglass. This is my home and will be mine for at least 10 years, might as do it right while at it. I'd love to take you up on the materials and would love to pick your brain over the tele.

I did call Winnebago today and they said leaving the upper tape on is the way the were supposed to do it. I think thats a load.... It makes no sense. I will research it some more and see. Not really a battle I want to fight, just want to know that they boned up the initial install or not.

I'm hoping tonight you will have about 20 more pictures.

Cheers

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Baja, good to see some progress on the project.

Quick question; how did you attach the diaganol roof side structure to the existing shell with no screws or other penetration of the exterior? I can see where the diaganols were attached to your new roof from the inside and therefore won't compromise the shell, but how so on the bottom of your new raised roof. Keep up the good work, look forward to more updates.

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You ought to laminate the top of that roof with fiberglass once you strip it to the bare wood. This would give the roof some additional strength too while providing a 100% waterproof outer shell. I've done a lot of similar waterproofing construction in the greater Monterey Bay and can get you the materials you need (if not have spare stuff laying around) + give some pointers/help. After you've "waterproofed" the plywood, you could put rubber back down I suppose, but don't like the idea of water potentially getting trapped between the two surfaces should the rubber fail. Typically with most decks, a light texture is shot atop the fiberglass and then an elastomeric protective UV paint applied over that. Whatever the case, I think your plan to remove the rubber and see what your dealing with (preventive maintenance) is a good call. Water damage is one of those things you have to catch before it "shows" itself. Usually it's too late by then. Sounds as tho your roof is in good shape, but would be worth the peace of mind to beef up the protective shell. Don't hesitate to call me if you need a 2nd pair of eyes to check things out or heckle you. smile.gif

I am looking at using the Dicor Brite TEK membrane http://www.dicor.com/Product.aspx?ID=10 and the recommendations are not to seal the plywood. The Brite TEK material looks very similar to a roofing material that was used on one of our commercial buildings in Manteca. If it is its some really tuff stuff and should last a lifetime. Mine presently wraps over the edge like in the install guide square corner drawing. Dicor has some very good documentation on installing the membrane. I realize fiberglass would be a good choice but the reliability of the dicor system is really good and has become an industry standard. Thanks for the offer regarding fiberglassing it. I don't think I have any water damage on the roof itself. Its where the roof met the front cowling, at that seam is where the water got in. And that was only because someone damaged the roof then put on a patch but did not completely caulk it at the edges. There is a similar seam in the rear. Here is a pic but its view is obscured by my antenna platform. You can see the strip along the side where the membrane is attached along the edge. The two weak points are at those seams front and back. I will still take you up on your offer as it looks like putting the membrane down is definitely a two guy job.

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Clarifying Post -

Now that I have it almost torn down, I want to clarify a few things.

The construction of this motorhome consists of:

Steel Skelital fram on both drivers and pass side walls. Within this frame there is just styrofoam. There is 1/16ish thick wall boards on the interior. The exterior is 20-22 Gauge steel cold rolled panels. Two long pieces glued together half way down. The walls are in considerably good shape. The upper sections of the walls were wet where the roof leaked... approximately 6" down on the interior wall. I could have saved the interior paneling, but it was more important to me to get all the mold out with 3 kids... don't want to be sick all the time while traveling.

The roof - 22guage metal about 9 4x7.5 sheets as the outside covering with I think EPDM rubber as the sealant. there were 1x6, 1x4 and 1x2 boards in there, but they were few and far between. The 1/16" wallboard was what you saw when you looked up. Upon tearing it apart, noted taht there was 3/4" styrofoam sandwitched in between. Pretty weak IMHO. The roof is a complete waste! Needs to be completely rebuilt from scratch. TBD

The bed was the same materials, 22 gauge metal with 2x6 and styrofoam sandwiched in between the 1/16" wallboard. It too was completely soaked... when tearing it apart, I found 1 square foot of dry wood.... that isn't much. Found a ton of black mold.

Condition:

Walls, 96% perfect - No need to reinvent the wheel. However I will use a wheel (flapdisk) to grind off the rust seen and will then seal the metal. New wallboard will go up in place of the old. Adhesive and wallboard is all that is needed.

Ceiling, Complete rebuild - waterlogged

Bed, Complete rebuild - Waterlogged

Floor - TBD, however the wood needs to come out, its buckled and completely waterlogged. It too is sandwiched and padded with styrofoam. I may buid recessed compartments for additional storage in the floor.

I'm still trying to figure out how to layer the roof for the maximum sturdiness... and my sun wants a skylight above the bed so he can see the stars. I also want to put an airconditioner in there so the roof framing will be pretty sturdy throughout.

I'm messing around on paper. In our prior 4 Toyota Motorhomes, we never used the shower. I'm thinking either OUTDOOR shower setup or... a corner Toilet / Shower combo setup. Haven't found one I like yet, but it will have to be modern. Its so much easier to pay $8 at a nice truckstop to shower the whole family... easier in the fact you don't have to dump, worry about mildew, store extra unneeded weight in water etc. I'm also thinking of having one dump tank. A black tank where the grey water and black water will run into. We also need another bed. With 2 girls (that will sleep at the table bed) and 1 boy, (sleeping on a board we pull out from under our overcab bed) we need to determine how this will be setup. Either hanging from the roof or attaching it to the walls above the girls bed. With everything gutted, we can move stuff around almost anywhere!

While I'm redoing the roof, I'll be figuring out the wiring for the AC Unit, Ample lighting, Stove vent, Microwave and STEREO system. Gotta have good tunes! Maybe even a RJ45 Jack and a coax jack to boot

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Pics are making a bit more sense of stuff, but the fabrication is still a bit fuzzy for me on this end.

Tell you what, I'll buy the beer, come on up to seattle and we'll knock this out in a weekend.
Ahh you live in Seattle? You better make that thing as water tight as a submarine! :) And I've heard from a friend who used to live on a Sailboat in Seattle that even if your rig is 100% water tight it will still "rain" on the inside due to all the moisture in the air? You ever experience anything like this or was he just pulling my leg?

I gotta take a trip to Oregon some time this summer as my mom apparently backed into a pole with her toyota motorhome ( I think it's an Itasa?). The damage was estimated at $3000 bucks and yet the picture she emailed me looks like it was a scratch! So yeah.. a few extra miles further north for some beer sounds good. :)

Baja, good to see some progress on the project. Quick question; how did you attach the diaganol roof side structure to the existing shell with no screws or other penetration of the exterior?
:) Well these pictures are from last fall, but there has been some progress over the winter and spring such as a new door and some more body work. Today (May 27th)it rained again here in Santa Cruz... unbelievable. As for the screws, I've used plenty and plenty of screws to hold things in place until the glass can setup. The screws always get removed tho and the hole filled up. If the glass wasn't so thin, I might glass over some stainless steel or galvanized ones, but there's no way to really countersink them. And they don't actually do that much. Here's a couple of pics to show some bullet holes: Also, I see you've dismantled that 78 chinook?

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Here this rafter is held in place by 2 screws on the outside + some glue (good chance the panel was screwed to it too). Glass strips were added where the panel meets the frame + where the frame meets the shell of cab. After that setup those screws were removed and filled. You'll notice some red circles in this pic? Those are where screws held a piece of wood that kept the 2 halves together and even while the glass on the seam cured. I circled them to throw a quick patch on the interior of the hole as well.

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All the trim was removed from the entire perimeter of the shell and here's a pic of the rear overlap that was cutout. The rusty screw holes are the original trim pieces and the smaller ones are where I used a piece of wood to hold the 2 sections tight while the glass cured. I need to take some updated pics as this turned out great.

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You've probably seen this picture already as I'm almost certain I posted it more than once. Definitely lots of screws here! :) There are probably more professional ways to hold these things in place, but I don't have those kinds of tools and this works great. Once the screw is removed just grind away a little dent put a glass patch on and fill. Yes, I know the passthrough section looks absurd with all those pieces, but that was before I came up with my reinforced shower panel process.

I am looking at using the Dicor Brite TEK membrane http://www.dicor.com/Product.aspx?ID=10 and the recommendations are not to seal the plywood. The Brite TEK material looks very similar to a roofing material that was used on one of our commercial buildings in Manteca. If it is its some really tuff stuff and should last a lifetime.

That looks like a really industrial product and very durable. Is it expensive? And can you buy it in the square footage you need or do you have to buy a big roll? Glad to hear it wraps over the edge. Nice antenna rack btw.
I will still take you up on your offer as it looks like putting the membrane down is definitely a two guy job.
Sounds good. I haven't visited Boulder Creek in a long time. Hopefully the rains have finally ended?
The upper sections of the walls were wet where the roof leaked... approximately 6" down on the interior wall. I could have saved the interior paneling, but it was more important to me to get all the mold out with 3 kids...
Good call. Plus you need to see exactly what state the stuff is that you can't see.
...The walls are in considerably good shape ...Walls, 96% perfect - No need to reinvent the wheel. However I will use a wheel (flapdisk) to grind off the rust seen and will then seal the metal.
Sorry I kept misreading this. I got confused when you said the walls were a total wreck in one post and then said they were in good shape in another. I now am getting a picture of what is damaged and what isn't. It sounds as tho the frame + exterior skin is salvageable and can be left alone... Thank god. Sorry I got carried away with suggesting you start from scratch! :watsup: Sounds like you know what you're doing for the treatment of the rusty metal.
New wallboard will go up in place of the old. Adhesive and wallboard is all that is needed.
I live here in California, but am always watching those Mike Holmes on Homes DYI Network shows and get a big kick out of how much importance a vapor/moisture barrier he stresses up there in Canada. Here, we slap on some Tyvek and call it a day. So this might be something to think about before you put up your wallboard. Tho a house sheeted in plywood is a different animal than a metal box. Anywho something to check into.
I'm still trying to figure out how to layer the roof for the maximum sturdiness... and my son wants a skylight above the bed so he can see the stars. I also want to put an airconditioner in there so the roof framing will be pretty sturdy throughout.
The pics don't quite show exactly how the walls end, but maybe a thin "top plate" atop your walls and then run some framing rafters right on top of that? Some kind of composite fiberglass laminate would work well as a roof covering. I don't think the lightweight shower wall FRP panel I constructed would be suitable for your desired thickness without beefing it up with about 10 layers of glass! So if a manufactured composite is too expensive, maybe you can find a decent membrane such as Greg's rig uses and/or glue this fiberglass paneling I described to thin plywood. The beauty of fiberglass paneling is that you can glass the seams together including wrap the glass around to your metal siding. While glass will adhere to metal, glassing your roof's edges to your exterior walls prob isn't too great of an idea considering the differences in materials/flex. I think the roof should definitely overlap the sides tho since a one-piece fusion is probably out of the question with metal. I think this seam will be your weakest link and will require the most attention/thought.

As for the shower thing, I can understand how some ppl love the concept and I'm sure it works well for a single guy or even a couple. The fact that you describe wanting to take the whole family along you are in desperate need for SPACE! Dedicating the whole rear of your rig to a bathroom would seem not the best option for a family. If you're staying in state campgrounds and other designated parks, they have showers where your girls can have more privacy and more room than some closet in the motorhome. And if they don't have showers, they can hose down outside (in the rain and snow!). I think you're going to need lots of sitting space + places/tables where kids can get a little distance from each other and parents etc. When I think of all the times hanging out in campers and RV's as a GROUP, almost always it comes down to sitting/table area. The ones with the most sitting/eating arrangements work best in a crowded house. The rear of your motorhome should basically be allocated to nothing but sitting/dinning. Prob have to get some big windows from a salvage yard. Less insulation foam/wall coverings to have to deal with too!

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I like the last thumbnail. So mine (Gulfstream) has the same red looking glue when I pulled off the interior Luann. I wonder what type of glue it is exactly. Having the steel framing is really great. It should be easy to kill the rust, some great products on the market for that. But probably can't use a narrow gauge staple gun to shoot the paneling on unless its really light weight gauge steel.

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Good on ya for opening up this bag of worms Mike. My selection for your poll would be turn it into a flatbed and mount a tow behind camper on that. You'd lose the walk through but you'd be dry and save yourself alot of work. oooo, you could mount you Sunrader on there and still have some room on the back for other toys.

Baja, yeah the Chinook came off last fall and I spent the winter working on a 4x4 to put it on. Still working on that, ran out of money. The Chinook pickup turned into a flatbed and as soon as that sells I'll put the money back into the other project.

Your answer about the fiberglass is what I wanted to hear, was wondering about the legitimacy of using screws temporarily. I also like our frp panels, may hit you up for more details when I get to that stage.

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There we go, I can see it now. Looks great! Do you have any before pictures of that bed area?

KRJ, are you going to replace the cab or weld up some sheet metal or is it going to be a walk back flat bed. Looks like the wood bed came out great on that.

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Dont do facebook so couldnt view picts or link.

Mikesta ... oh where do i start..looks like your in the same boat as me. I had,have a total rot box. Except you got good metal siding.In the begining i thought it was no big deal and often doubted myself and still do, actually today while opening up my front cab. I dont think i would have done what im doing if i had known what i was going to be doing...um, no what i should say is i wouldn't do it again. But my doubters keep me motivated. I was thinking how it would have been easier if i removed all siding and reframed whole thing. So if you do rebuild i would suggest removing siding first. oh wait a minute are your studs good? I wouldn't fiberglass roof to metal siding due to different expansions. I'd love to see you rebuild but dont no what to say

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