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Wingard and digital TV


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Our new RV has a Wingard amplified TV antenna, the kind that cranks up. Anyone out there tried to receive the new digital TV channels with it? The only tuner I have for my laptop is the analog type, guess I will have to upgrade. All TV stations are set to switch to digital on Friday this week! And the analog will be a relic of the past.

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Greg,

I don't have the Wingard crank-up only the plastic batwing that's been on my Sunrader since whenever. Several months ago, I installed a digital TV and the old antenna pulls in the picture like gangbusters. I'm sure your Wingard will even work better, just remember stations that came in weak before in analog will now disappear.

Allen

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My TV antenna is the luggage carrier and is completely worthless! Good thing I don't watch much TV I even tried it when we still had analog signals I think holding up my right hand would have been better! Now maybe if I pointed the MH a little more to the north.....

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My TV antenna is the luggage carrier and is completely worthless! Good thing I don't watch much TV I even tried it when we still had analog signals I think holding up my right hand would have been better! Now maybe if I pointed the MH a little more to the north.....

I had that one to but removed it the other weekend as most of the brackets were loose where they bolted to the roof. It was in the way of my new antenna platform.

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I like it are you mounting it to the same mounting as the railing? And are all of the antennas going to fold over or are you just going to put them on when you park? How had you planed to ground it?

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It will be mounted through the side. I will have a permanant dual band uhf vhf antena on it with a custom spring. I may also have two other permanant antennsas for gmrs and cb. There will also be a 3/8 threaded and a uhf (SO-239 type). The uhf so239 will be for my atas-100 hf screwdriver antenna but will only be mounted when parked.

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Thanks

Here is another related project, my power panel for radios and TV. Got some fuses, cig outlet, anderson power poles, binding posts, tv antennas, so-239 connections and a panel volt meter. One of the rocker switches (green led) will turn on the refer vent cooling fan. Rocker and red led will power the binding posts and voltmeter. Still some room left for something else. This took some time to build. All built into a brass panel. Now time for the soldering gun!

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  • 6 months later...

I, recently, put in a new Wingard batwing antenna on mine, where the fancy luggage rack one was before. I, also got a new 19 in digital TV with DVD player built in. I love it! Before, I couldn't get anything in. Now my TV and antenna gets just as good as reception as my cable TV at home. What a difference! :ThumbUp:

Tudy

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  • 2 years later...
  • 2 years later...

Our new RV has a Wingard amplified TV antenna, the kind that cranks up. Anyone out there tried to receive the new digital TV channels with it? The only tuner I have for my laptop is the analog type, guess I will have to upgrade. All TV stations are set to switch to digital on Friday this week! And the analog will be a relic of the past.

I've got the crank-up Winegard on all three of my RVs. I've tested it against large full-size antennas used on houses when in fringe areas. The Winegard got maybe 2/3 of what the big antenna got (with a 30 dB preamp). There is no such thing as a "digital" antenna but . . the old Winegard Sensar RV antenna does not cover the entire UHF band that some digital channels use now. So Winegard has an add-on "Wingman" kit to update them. As I'm sure you already know, analog tuner cards in computers are kind of worthless now unless you want to watch a few analog Canadian TV stations.

Winegard "Wingman" kit is $30 and takes 10 minutes to install onto an older Sensar antenna.

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The Wingmans are passive but it does give the antenna a bit of gain. I had an older unit and installed one it was marginally better but more directive. if the antenna is toes up this would be a better bet (the amps inside do go bad so if you get nothing it's probably the amp) replacement http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/rayzar-air-retrofit-hd-tv-antenna-white/78817It is a patch antenna with a built in amp it is no where near as directive and will work front to back making tuning far easier. It also is weighted to the newer frequencies for about $20 more. Any TV built after May of 07 will have a digital tuner.

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If you have a smart phone and of course are in a location with a signal...

you can get apps that refer to the location you are in and then using your phone as a compass the app shows you the location where the nearest TV station transmitting towers are. That helps you aim your antenna towards the best possible reception at that particular location. Or if you know where you will be staying you can figure it out with your computer and internet connection before you hit the road. I have an add on TV device I use with my laptop so I usually do it on the computer to save data time.

I will eventually get an energy efficient 12 volt TV with DVD player that doubles as a monitor but for now my computer will do.

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The Wingmans are passive but it does give the antenna a bit of gain. I had an older unit and installed one it was marginally better but more directive.

Until somebody does an actual head-to-head test - it's just guesswork when trying to figure which antenna is best on an RV. Also depends on where you want to use it. Some areas have a lot of TV on VHF and small antennas of any make do poorly with long-distance VHF TV. The add-on "Wingman" for the Winegard Sensar does a good job at beefing up the UHF reception. The VHF on any Sensar is poor. I've yet to see any small antenna do well with VHF.

I tested my Winegard with and without the Wingman add-on. Adding the Wingman got me two more channels when in the eastern Upper Peninsua in Michigan. Just got done testing it yesterday. I was on a wooded shoreline on Lake Michigan maybe 30 miles west of the Mackinac Bridge. I use the signal-locating program on TV Fool. It has served me well for years. I posted the signal map showing, top to bottom, what channels should of been the strongest. With the Sensar - with or without the added UHF "Wingman" enhancer - I got NO VHF channels. I DID get these. NOTE - I am posting the make-believe "virtual" channels which is what we see on the screen when the channel identifies itself. Also the real RF channels we don't see and they are ALL that count. UHF reception was VERY impressive and I even got one from Green Bay, Wisconsin some 200 miles away.

I got:

Channel 3 WJMN (which is really UHF channel 48) and is 80 miles away.

Channel 45 WFUP (which is really UHF channel 45) and is 90 miles away

Channel 4 WTOM (which is really UHF channel 35) and is 57 miles away

Channel 27 WCMN (which is really UHF channel 17) and is 98 miles away

Channel 26 WGBA (which is really UHF channel 41) and is 200 miles away !!

I did NOT get many VHF channels that have fairly strong signals:

Channels 2, 8, 9, and 10 VHF were not received although Channel 2 is analog from Canada and did come in very snowy.

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The Sensar was designed for VHF bands the upper UHF bands did not exist at the time. They use an extremely broad band amp and a low noise one at that, that is why they work at all on UHF. The Wingman is a UHF director device it is a beam antenna add on to increase the UHF gain is it too small both in width and length to be effective on VHF, the Sensar bat wing is the receiving element for VHF not the Wingman. Across any body water can not be beat if you want a good signals of any sort. Most of us have hills or buildings in the way.

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Most of us have hills or buildings in the way.

As do the places I've tested many antennas in central NY. 60 miles to the closest transmitter tower with no line-of-sight to any of them. Many mountian-tops and trees in the way. I've yet to find any small antenna that can do well on low-band VHF (channels 2 to 6). High band - they work but not great (7-13). The Winegard Sensar has a relatively low-gain amp and benefits greatly if a 30 dB amp is added to it. As far as the Winegard amp being "low noise." I've yet to see any specs on the actual noise ratio or gain in dBs on specific bands. Just 15.5 dB "average" raitng which is kind of meaningless.

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As do the places I've tested many antennas in central NY. 60 miles to the closest transmitter tower with no line-of-sight to any of them. Many mountian-tops and trees in the way. I've yet to find any small antenna that can do well on low-band VHF (channels 2 to 6). High band - they work but not great (7-13). The Winegard Sensar has a relatively low-gain amp and benefits greatly if a 30 dB amp is added to it. As far as the Winegard amp being "low noise." I've yet to see any specs on the actual noise ratio or gain in dBs on specific bands. Just 15.5 dB "average" raitng which is kind of meaningless.

Interesting my 50 MHZ antenna works just fine into Europe. Adding amps back to back usually produces a great deal of distortion and noise. The ideal behind an amp any way is to reduce cable and connector loss that is why they are best mounted at the antenna in the case of the Senszer it is a circuit board right inside the head if it does not work you get nothing. If you blast a receiver with a lot of signal the first thing that happens the receiver’s AGC circuit cuts back the signal negating any gain that may be present. The preamplifier should have a gain equal to the loss in the cable and connections plus a little bit but excessive preamp gain makes things worse not better. Your astonishing reception has more to do with transmitter output than an effective antenna. Adding an amp to an antenna that has good deal of gain already usually is counterproductive adding an amp to a small antenna often helps the situation because of its low gain figures. This is a quality commercial UHF TV antenna it is over 3 feet long and produces a great deal of gain.

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I will also address the the noise factor the Sensar antenna has a low noise amp the manufactures have gone to great pains to produce low noise amps because the TV manufactures have not done much of any thing as far as noise reducing circuits in the TV ever seen noise figure rating on a TV? Well no because they don't care they depend on the antenna people to fix it for them.

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I will also address the the noise factor the Sensar antenna has a low noise amp the manufactures have gone to great pains to produce low noise amps because the TV manufactures have not done much of any thing as far as noise reducing circuits in the TV ever seen noise figure rating on a TV? Well no because they don't care they depend on the antenna people to fix it for them.

Winegard certainly in not known for making the best "low noise" preamps. Winegard and AntennaCraft are at the "higher" end when it comes to "noise" in preamps. Channel Master has had one of the best for years (at a reasonable cost). For those who want to spend big bucks - untra-low noise amps like the Research Communication model # 9260 premap from England is one of the best. 23 dB average gain with HDTV and .4 dB noise (note that is point-four of a deci-Bell).

http://www.researchcomms.com/hdtv.html

I've run many real-world tests with many antennas in fringe reception areas with just about every amp on the market. Also with over dozen makes of TVs. I hate to say it but I've found very little difference in reception when it comes to preamp noise. dB of gain was the biggest factor to make-or-break a weak signal. I've had some crappy Radio-Shack (Antenna Craft) amps with 8 dB of noise and Research Communications preamps with less then 1 dB of noise and observed very little difference. As far as too many amps ruining a signal? Not my experience at all. My house in NY had six antenna over 1000 feet from the house,hooked with RG11 coax and multiple amps all the way. As long as too much gain was not created - it made the difference between no channel at all - to a good viewable channel. My biggest gripe with certain amps is longevity. I've had many Winegard and AntennaCraft units burn out after two years or a few distant lightning strikes guite a distance away. To the converse, the Channel Master CM7777 Titan seems to be near indestructable. At least the older ones were with the switchable FM trap and the dual inputs (one for VHF and one for UHF). New ones have changed a big and only time will tell if they are as rugged.

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All most 30 years of building armature radio antennas repeaters etc. department head Cumberland County PD electronics division (retired) Worked with a local machine shop part time building slot TV transmitting antennas during the changeover to digital for Dielectric Co. he was buried and had to get them done seems like everything waits for the last minute.

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Oh you guys. LoL

FYI state of MA Licensed Radio and TV tech. Another one of my career/business dead ends. If there is a dying industry out there, I've worked in it.

I've got a "TV tech" question. I used to repair tube-type TVs with analog tuners and but am not up to date with the newer stuff. I've got a brand new TV that has a few people and tech-departments stumped. New LCD-LED 32" Sansui TV wih digital tuner. When it is tuned to channel 6 (actual RF channel 6 on low-band VHF) - after 10-15 minutes the sound stops working. Note - this ONLY happens on channel 6. I get three other low-band VHF channels and with them - all is fine. Same with all the UHF band channels. To get the sound back - I have to change to another channel, and then back to channel 6. Then the sound will work for another 10-15 minutes and crap out again. The Sansui tech people say it has to be a problem with the TV channel company and their transmitter (WRGB from Albany area, New York). I contacted WRGB and they say it must be a TV problem. So - I've gottten nowhere. Sansui says they cannot fix under warranty since they don't think there is anything wrong with this new TV. Note - we stuck several other TVs on the same coax line and with them - Channel 6 works fine and there is no loss of sound. I'm assuming there is some problem with the tuner chip in the TV. We now are living in northern Michigan where there IS no channel 6 to worry about and the TV works fine. I'd still like to know what the problem was or is.

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My commentary comes from it being years since I've heard people debate line amplifiers. The number of people who actually view over the air has dwindled to a drip as most people either live near populous area or have some form of cable or sat. Also at that level it was like listening to Ham guys or even audiophiles debating this piece of gear or another. Please, it was very nostalgic and I did enjoy it immensely.

I should have stated was a licensed tech. As of last Nov, the state has eliminated the requirement and no longer renews the license. I only kept it up to date till then so I could put it on my resume (though I've no idea why other than it is a state agency verifying my credentials) That said I think I left TV repair about 20 years ago as I kept working longer hours for less and less money.

My guess would be as ch6 is at the top edge of the low band that something is just ever so out of spec as to cause a problem. Probably not the chip but the front end. You had Sansui on the line, I would have insisted or driven the conversation up the chain of command so to speak. My other sets work, this one doesn't is kind of compelling.

Not to further the debate above, was it by chance connected up to any of the many line amplifiers foretold in the above discussions? I studied lots of RF & IF for my license but most of the modern sets I worked on had already begun to use sealed tuners. If they were bad we would replace them with units already aligned. Occasionally older sets came in but often were not worth the labor to put into them and I told customers so. Just because someone is willing to spend their money, doesn't mean you should take it.

It has only gotten smaller where getting the incoming IF signal into the receiver chip is a pretty short path. The systems on a chip were one of the weak spots in my day as the chip was fairly large and prone to failure but it was desolder, and replace and you were up and going.

I was pretty late to tubes but in audio. Still have a decent collection of mostly single ended guitar stuff. Did a ton of restoration work in my shop. A couple of times while out of work, I go out and buy broken tube stuff and fix it up for sale. Been 5 years since the last time.

Now I do very little in the way of bench work. Had a bunch of Samsung flat screens with power supply problems over the last few years. Everyone I knew was having problems with them. Quick fix as it only involved replacing some poorly spec'd caps. Family and friends still call but probably like you, I am worlds removed from it today.

Still think it is probably the front end before it hits the IC where it goes from RF to IF.

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Was being a bit too lazy to look it up but predicated my opinion on thinking audio was at the top of the band. HDTV is transmitted in separate mpeg streams so all the audio is separate streams in its own section of band.

So I looked it up as the more I thought about it, the more it bugged me.

On channel 6 audio is right at the edge at 87.7 MHz and the edge of the channel is 88. Wouldn't take much for something to just be a little bit off there. Unlike analog it is not on a carrier and as it is digital, you either get it or don't. Going in and out at that channel would seem more an RF thing than anything else I can think of. The amp question is still out there because if there was one, I don't know what it did between 88 and 174 MHz span between 6-7 mid bands

I don't deal in absolutes and keep in mind I'm 20 years removed from this.

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Seems like if the TV station had an issue you would not have been the only one to call! If I had to guess it's an D to A conversion issue.

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I was kind of thinking if there was a line amp, it might be the slope on the FM trap just digging a bit too low or drift on the voltage controlled tuner. FM starts at 88MHz. D to A would be all stations and that wasn't the case.

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I was kind of thinking if there was a line amp, it might be the slope on the FM trap just digging a bit too low or drift on the voltage controlled tuner. FM starts at 88MHz. D to A would be all stations and that wasn't the case.

Can't be a premap or line-amp issue. At my place in central NY where i had the problem - I had three antenna "farms." That is - three areas that had antennas all somewhat distant from another. One - the most distant - had a 30 dB preamp and two line amps along the way to the house (1000 foot run with RG11 coax). The second was only 300 feet from the house with a 30 dB premap and no line amp. The third was 75 feet from the house with no amp at all. All connected to a A-B-C coax switch box. When I'd lose sound on channel 6 - it would happen with all of the three separate antenna systems. Channel 6 just happens to be the strongest channel in the area so I was able to get it on all three systems.

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