Why did they stop making Toyota campers?

[KC10Chief]

I know we're all a bit biased here, but what was the reasoning behind nobody manufacturing Toyota campers anymore? All of the newer Class C campers I see these days, are big monstrosities. The insides aren't built that well on a lot of them. A small camper seems like a great idea to me. Something that gets decent gas mileage, and you can park in a parking spot. With a modern vehicle like a Toyota Tundra, I'd think you could easily get 18 to 20 mpg on the highway. What's the deal? Were people just not buying them? Bad management? What happened? I should start up a business and build small campers!

[Shoprat]

Drivetrain overloading killed the Toyota MH. They were built on pickup frames and weighed close to three tons. The single tire per side rear axle couldn't handle the load, and broke, with sometimes serious results. The Toyota factory supplied duallie axles to replace the singles, but it was expensive. No one wanted to leave themselves open to a lawsuit because of overloading the drivetrain from the MH factory. Toyota refused to supply chassis to any motorhome manufacturer after that. You can by smaller MH today, but the last one I read about cost almost 80 grand. You can by a LOT of gas for a stronger MH for the difference.

[bufbooth]

I agree with all that Shoprat stated, and gas was pretty cheap in the mid-90s.

Over the last 3 to 4 years I have pinged a number of motorhome companies (big and small)

explaining the benefits of a small Class C motorhome, basically asking for a modern Toyota.

I never got back any responses. Also, I am amazed that there really is not much of a price

difference on motorhomes when it comes to size, so if price is not a major factor, folks will

tend to go with the larger length RV since it appears they are getting more RV for the dollar.

About the closest thing to our Toyotas on the market today is a Tiger (www.tigermotorhomes.com),

but you are looking at about $80,000 for one.

Dennis...

[Maineah]

Next one I buy will be a class "C" on a Sprinter frame they are only about 2 feet longer then the Toyota and the first ones got 19-20+ mpg with plenty of turbo diesel power. Several coach makers are using the Sprinters. I have a lot of life in my Toyota so by the time I ware it out I will be able to afford a used Sprinter with slide outs by that time they will be 10 years old!

[bajadulce]

Toyota campers are still in production in other parts of the world. Turbo Diesel 4x4 Toy Campers are really popular in Australia and Germany, just not in this country. Our gas was too cheap for too long. Gas is worth 5 bucks a gallon minimum when you consider what it can do. Not to worry, eventually we will see mini camper manufacturers again soon.

[advocate1]

Toyota builds a whole range of commercial chassis for the rest of the world, and several show up in Japan, Germany and Australia with motorhomes attached.

I was in France and England last year and almost all of their motorhomes are Toyota size or smaller. I saw exactly 1 Class "A", it was parked at a bank aranging a loan to buy enough gas (at $9.00+ a gallon) to get home on.

I think that the real reason the Toyota sized motorhomes died was because Americans were convinced that they were less than real Men or Women in the smaller units and they "needed" something BIG to prove their virility. How else could anyone possibly explain the SUV / Hummer phenom?

For what its worth, my 1989 Sunrader Adventure-II was delivered new, at the factory, in August of 1988 for exactly $18,745. That converts to about $34,000 2009 dollars, a price you can't buy any RV, other than a travel trailer, for today.

Sunrader Bob

[futar]

There was a National Traffic Safety Administration recall. Toyota sold the chassis in good faith but our American manufactures didn't tell them that they were going to overload them. The oversees manufacturers generally did not overload them.

About 18 American manufacturers went out of business rather than make repairs. Toyota got stuck with supplying the upgraded axles for these motor homes. The axles were worth about $4,000 each in 1988 dollars. Toyota only charged for shipping which was about $70 back then. Toyota would not supply any more chassis to the American Manufacturers after getting burnt like that.

There was one equivalent for a while after that which was even better than the Toyota. It was the Winnebago Vista http://www.rvweb.com/guides/manufacturers/...a-1085496777819 which was made until 2004. It had a 201 HP VW V6 engine. They have very high resale value.

The Sprinter mounted MH started off good but now they're expensive overloaded monsters getting about 15 mpg. The first class Cs were smaller without slideouts and got about 19-21mpg

[advocate1]

While the NTSA did issue a recall on all 1979-1985 Toyota Motorhomes for a rear axle replacement, it wasn't issued until December of 1991. By that time only National RV, Coachman and Gardner-Pacific (Sunrader) were still in business, and Gardner-Pacific closed it's doors less than 2 months after Stu Gardner signed off on the recall. For the most part, the other mfgs. went out of business because the demand was gone and considerable damage had been done done by the stories that abounded about wheels falling off of the older units.

But, none the less, Winnebago (who didn't build any Toyota based units prior to 1986), National RV, Coachman and a few others kept building units as long as Toyota would supply chassis. The cost to Toyota for the axle recall was more in bad publicity than in $$$$. As recently as yesterday I saw a post on another RV site that stated, with full authority, that it was Toyota's fault that the wheels were breaking off because they sold a poorly designed chassis to the coach builders.

Actually, prior to 1989, Toyota corporate didn't sell any chassis to coach builders, they were all sold by individual dealers. On April 28, 1987 the chassis under my Sunrader Adventure was sold by Schaumberg Toyota to TJN Sales of Elkhart,IN. TJN "Sold" it to Sunrader Inc (AKA Monterey Leisure) who built the coach on it in August of 1988, and then TJN Sales sold it to the end user as a 1989 model. WhatToyota could be faulted for was for putting this many firewalls between them and the end user in the early years.

Between 1989 and 1992 Toyota apparently sold more chassis to U-Haul and flat bed truck builders than to all of the RV builders. It should come as no surprise that some of those 10' box trucks, and most of the flatbed trucks are still in service today. (Actually I think that most of the U-Hauls became flat bed trucks for gardners in SoCal, they are all over the place down here, I can see as many as 10 a day.

Now, a little about the early Vista, which should not be confused with the later reincarnation of the Vista name, a monster sized Class "A" motorhome. That attempt didn't do very well, not because it wasn't a nice design, but because it was different enough that most VW dealers couldn't service it and non-dealers wouldn't touch it.

There were a number of different chassis parts unique to the Winnebago build that VW didn't stock and VW dealers usually won't work on something that they aren't certified to repair.

Stories abound about Vista owners having to have their rigs towed from VW dealer to VW dealer trying to get them fixed. To Winnebago's credit they appraently have remained helpful in resolving these problems, but the Winnebago/VW relationship was never well bonded.

And if we think we have problems finding tires, the Vista used different size tires front and rear and, apparently those are now out of production.

For more on that Love/Hate relationship with the Vista you can start here: http://www.rv-coach.com/current_category.1...hread_full.html

Keep havin' Fun

[Steve Hill]

This is an interesting topic. The information about the NTSA recall has made me wonder about safety issues. My MH is a 1978 Mini Mirage which was not included in the recall (I believe). It has dual wheels on the back. Is this why it was not included in the recall or is there some other reason? Is this vehicle at risk for rear end failure? If so,are there precautions I should take or things I should watch that might forewarn of trouble? I would appreciate any information or opinions or thoughts on the subject.

Thanks, Steve Hill

[advocate1]

This is an interesting topic. The information about the NTSA recall has made me wonder about safety issues. My MH is a 1978 Mini Mirage which was not included in the recall (I believe). It has dual wheels on the back. Is this why it was not included in the recall or is there some other reason? Is this vehicle at risk for rear end failure? If so,are there precautions I should take or things I should watch that might forewarn of trouble? I would appreciate any information or opinions or thoughts on the subject.

Thanks, Steve Hill

[advocate1]

Steve

Your concern is well placed. Fortunately there are few, if any, records of pre-79 Toyota Motorhomes actually having axles snap off as happened with the later units. This seems to be mostly a problem related to the heavier weight of the later units. History shows that some failures occured in 18' units but the failure rates went up as the length and weight increased. Perhaps for this reason the 1991 recall was limited to 1979-1985 units only

A common reccomendation, as appeared in several owners manuals of the time, for earlier units such as my 1978 Sunrader and your Mirage, was simply to replace the wheel bearing every 20,000 miles as a precaution.

So, if you haven't done so and don't know when, if ever, it was done, now might be a good time to invest into a set of rear wheel bearings and a clean out and change of the differential grease.

And, for what it's worth, I am resarching information that there were heavy duty 1 ton axles and bearings available that could be fitted to the early axle housing. I will post anything I find on the toyota-campers yahoo group site. Sunrader Bob

[Steve Hill]

Thanks for the reply

Replacing the wheel bearings and new rear end lube sounds like great advice. After I asked about it I found and read a post by Gulfstream Greg on May 10 2004 titled Toyota Motorhome Rear Axle Facts. I also read the linked Axle FAQ pdf. This is great info. Exactly what I was looking for. I plan to address the problem immediately. I'm glad you guys are out there.

Thanks again, Steve Hill