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Hey guys. So I've got a 89 dolphin with 4cyl 22re that's running a little hot. I've done full radiator swap (new 3 row radiator, new thermostat, new water pump, new hoses), and recently had to replace the core because of a rod knock. All said and done it's still running a little hot. Gauge reaches 3/4 temp when on the highway doin over 55. Im pretty baffled now, is this thing doomed? Appreciate any advice. 

Edited by danonthemoon
Mistake
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Fan clutch, gauge bad, temp sender bad. Harbor Freight  has IR temp guns they will let you quickly check temps. 

More rare, Toyota Red anti freeze does not play well with the traditional green stuff. Make sure you are running one or the other.

 

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There is a red line on your gauge before the hot mark Toyotas have that it is over heat mark not boiling hot Toyota say below that is is not overheating still it's scary but OK .

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I had the same thing happen with my 78 Toyota Keystone with the 20R engine, which is the predecessor to the 22R.  Some years ago, my 1970 Ford F150 360-V8 had similar symptoms.  On the '78 Toyota I did the same thing: New radiator, new hoses, thermostat, water pump, radiator flush, everything.  The fix?  A blown head gasket.  Also on the F150.  We didn't think it was because there was no interchange of fluids in the motor (oil with coolant or vice-versa), and no outwardly signs of anything, no leaks, etc...  Sorry to say, but it sounds like a head gasket.  Though rare on these, it does happen.  My suggestion is that if you know of a shop who deals exclusively on engines take it to them and get their opinion.  Toyotas usually run cool when they are running fine, even under a load, so don't get complacent thinking that if you just remain below the red mark you're fine, you should never get that high a reading.

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2 hours ago, lopezg273 said:

I had the same thing happen with my 78 Toyota Keystone with the 20R engine, which is the predecessor to the 22R.  Some years ago, my 1970 Ford F150 360-V8 had similar symptoms.  On the '78 Toyota I did the same thing: New radiator, new hoses, thermostat, water pump, radiator flush, everything.  The fix?  A blown head gasket.  Also on the F150.  We didn't think it was because there was no interchange of fluids in the motor (oil with coolant or vice-versa), and no outwardly signs of anything, no leaks, etc...  Sorry to say, but it sounds like a head gasket.  Though rare on these, it does happen.  My suggestion is that if you know of a shop who deals exclusively on engines take it to them and get their opinion.  Toyotas usually run cool when they are running fine, even under a load, so don't get complacent thinking that if you just remain below the red mark you're fine, you should never get that high a reading.

I thought that too, but I just had a new core installed not even 2 days ago by a professional (?) mechanic. I would assume it would have a new head gasket, but I am by no means an expert. Would a new core have that, or would they check when installing? And same thing on mine, no oil in the coolant so I had ruled that out. I burped the system to be sure last night but haven't gotten a chance to test it. 

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4 hours ago, danonthemoon said:

I thought that too, but I just had a new core installed not even 2 days ago by a professional (?) mechanic. I would assume it would have a new head gasket, but I am by no means an expert. Would a new core have that, or would they check when installing? And same thing on mine, no oil in the coolant so I had ruled that out. I burped the system to be sure last night but haven't gotten a chance to test it. 

When you say "core", are you referring to a "heater core"? or a new engine altogether?

Basically, what 2-3 mechanics told me (before having the head gasket done I got several opinions) is that if your engine idles until infinity with no overheating issues, but then when you put it under a load and the temperature starts inching up, and you can't make it stop, then the head gasket is bad.   That's exactly what my 20R did.  It would idle forever with no issue, but upon driving, the temp would just start inching up and up.

I'm pretty well versed on mechanical things and I understand the relationship a water pump, radiator, old hoses, thermostat, etc.. have on cooling, but I cannot understand how a seemingly good head gasket makes an engine overheat, but for mine, that was the solution.  Good luck!

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Compression  gas from a leaking head gasket makes for pretty poor heat transfer it's not a very good conductor of heat.

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Guessing how hot an engine is doesn't cut it WME suggested an IR  thermometer that could be a start. If you are concerned about a head gasket issue then check the compression. If it's leaking it will be low on one or two cylinders compared to the others.

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I battled the wild temperature gauge for a number of years.

Replaced everything even installed a brand new ebay cylinder head...

Had several defective radiators confuse the issue.

I blew a head gasket when the temperature was twenty degrees.

Pulled the head it was still flat so I installed a new gasket.

I put the thermostat in water on the stove and it would not open.  Defective....

I put the last three thermostats on the stove and they were marginal at best.

 

 

So I purchased a new thermostat and drilled three 1/8 inch holes in it before installing.

In the last ten thousand miles I have not had any problems with overheating. When it is really cold there is a problem with lack of heat.

 

 

My thoughts on this is that our rigs are grossly overloaded before we even load the first thing in them that when we get some miles on them the thermostat is constantly cycling beyond its design standards..  My conclusion is that the thermostats available  cannot withstand the stress put on them.

Since I have put 10k on my rig since installing a thermostat I have never seen the temp gauge go to a place that caused concern.  The temp gauge sits in different spots in different temp zones but no wild swings.

 

If I installed another thermostat I would try just two 1/8 inch holes or three 1/16 holes just to provide more cab heat in lower climates.

I spent years trolling this forum trying to solve this problem and tried every thermostat available... 

The only thing that has made any long term  was drilling the holes in it.

Your experience may vary..

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An easy way to check for headgasket failure is to take the radiator cap off and then run the engine. If a bunch of bubbles keep coming up to the filler hole then you have a blown head gasket.

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Update: she was running good for awhile after I burped the cooling system. Was doing great on the highway, in the city, etc. But it was still running a bit warmer than I like (right under the top white line so over 3/4). So just see what would happen, I installed a Genuine Toyota thermostat and burped the system again, and now the problem is worse and even overheats while idling. Now I'm thinking I shouldn't have touched anything, but didn't want her running at max temp all the time. Anyone know what might have happened?

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Have you checked out the fan clutch? Did you verify the Toyota thermostat opened before installing? 

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is there a possably that there is still air in the system . fan clutches do fail but the ones I have replaced froze up stuck on all the time not saying it  is not the clutch.parts men and mechinices have told me thermostats are these days prone to high failer rate . in my dodge car the thermostat broke apart one leg broke off I am 66 driving since 1969 never seen or heard of that .

Edited by 5Toyota
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20 minutes ago, Odyssey 4x4 said:

Have you checked out the fan clutch? Did you verify the Toyota thermostat opened before installing? 

The fan clutch is my next guess. It doesnt offer much resistance, so does that mean it's gone bad? And no, I didnt get to check if it opens for sure so I might give that a shot as well.

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8 minutes ago, 5Toyota said:

is there a possably that there is still air in the system . fan clutches do fail but the ones I have replaced froze up stuck on all the time not saying it  is not the clutch.

There is a chance. I'm not an expert on it, so I let it run for about 30 mins with the cap off while occasionally squeezing the top hose. And it does seem that the fan is always running, so maybe that's the issue here? 

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I will say the only time I've had a fan clutch fail it did fail in a way which made it permanently on and you could definitely hear it and know it was on all the time. It robbed a good amount of power but that's better than over heating! When you burped the system with the cap off are you certain the thermostat opened? You'll usually see the coolant level start to rise and fall a bit while it's warming up and starting to want to open and finally when the stat opens fully it will burp a bunch of water out of it and overflow a bit. Then top it off again and maybe have someone give it some throttle so that you can make sure you see water moving through the system adequately. 

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I agree generally they fail stuck on, eazy check with the engine off it should turn with a light bit of effort by hand. This of course will not cause overheating. A common old meat thermometer will give you a pretty good ideal of coolant temp. The water at the top of the radiator is going to be the hottest. 185-195 is pretty normal on the road on a hot day 210.

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Thanks for all the help guys. I'm gonna go ahead and change the fan clutch so pretty much everything will be new. As of now, this thing has a new engine core, all new belts, new hoses, new radiator, new tstat that I verified is opening, and a new water pump, and I full burped the system. Does great, runs a little hot still, but once I get climbing uphill it overheats. For some reason, the truck is already so hot when I start climbing it has no choice but to overheat. If anyone can help me figure this out thatd be awesome cause I'm baffled 

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Long story,  I put an aftermarket fan clutch in,   did not like the way it sounded.  Which is kind of odd as a fan clutch does not make a sound, but something did not sound right.  So took it out, returned it and installed an Aisin.  Been happy with Aisin for some time now.

Gauge is a 30 year old indicator,  so are the wires and sensor.  It cannot differentiate between slightly warm and hot. Buy a IR gun as suggested and see what the temp actually is.  You may be fixing a non problem! 

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When the fan clutch engages they roar more often they free wheel they sense hot air flow thru the radiator to make them lockup.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 3 years later...
On 8/8/2019 at 11:51 PM, danonthemoon said:

Hey guys thanks for all the help! Turns out the fan clutch was it, and she's running like a champ now!

Hey all, I know this is an old-ish thread but I wanted to add my experience with this same issue I had with my 85 Sun Land Express.

 

(btw I’m a long time listener and finally signed up.. going to make a new post soon all about my rig and the adventure it has been fixing it up!)

 

Anyhow, I rebuilt the engine last winter. Spared no expense. All OE/OEM parts in the cooling system with the exception being a CSF 2 row radiator. Had the same issue with “almost” overheating with extended engine load. Highway driving, hill climbing etc. Swapped the rad out for the 3 row CSF.. same thing, maybe slightly better or took longer for the heat to build. Checked thermostat on the stove, tried another one, tried drilling a 1/8 hole. Nope.. Pulled hoses and water pump and scoped as much as I could with a WiFi endoscope camera. Made sure water pump impeller was pressed properly and not free wheeling, even at boiling temps. (Btw the water pump is a NPW for a 84 because I upgraded to the dual row timing chain kit from 22RE Performance. The timing cover for this uses the 84 style pump. Anyway this NPW pump has a cast iron impeller which is supposed to be superior to stamped steel..)

None of this helped. Rad seemed to flow  fine, no cool spots. 

 

To check for running lean condition I checked EGR operation.. Checked O2 sensor output while driving on highway, as well as vacuum to the EGR. All checked out. O2 output was rich side because of high engine load. Adjusted AFM a couple notches rich. Again, no luck.

 

Installed a mechanical temp gauge by pulling the AC shutoff sensor on the intake manifold and using an adapter. Before installing I tested it on the stove and determined it showed about 6* cooler than actual. When the stock gauge was up close to the white line the mech gauge would read 220-225 (corrected). 60 down the highway temp would be 200-215. Not horrible but didn’t make sense to me with ambient temps being even as low as 60*. Before the engine rebuild the stock gauge would never go higher than slightly over mid. Granted, the stat in at that time was def not a 190* OE unit. But the cooler t-stat I tried trying to resolve this issue did nothing to stop the temp from climbing post rebuild. 
 

After going through all of this I was dreading a possible head gasket failure.. or cracked head.. it baffled me though. The block was decked, brand new aftermarket head, new oe bolts and gasket. How could it be?! 
 

To rule this out I bought a combustion gas test kit and it passed..


On our most recent trip this September I had a bit of a eureka moment when climbing a hill up to Lake Placid. The mech gauge got up to 225, but it didn’t seem like the fan was reacting to this. It was a slow climb, 30-40mph so with the window open I could hear things well. Toward the top of the hill there was a one lane section with a stop light. Still running hot we stopped there for a couple minutes. After a minute or so I shifted into neutral and gave it a rev.. the fan was much louder. So without much ambient airflow through the radiator, the bimetallic coil on the fan clutch must have opened all the way up finally and locked up the clutch more. With the fan engaged the coolant temp went down quickly. This got me thinking that the clutch just isn’t engaging enough/early enough. With this in mind I did some more googling and found a forum that talked about taking the clutch apart and changing the silicone oil to make the fan more effective. The normal stock clutch comes with 4,000 cst oil. Rock crawlers in the desert like to run 8 or 10,000 cst. One suggestion was to simply add some 30,000 cst oil. Others commented that sometimes these clutches would come with too little fluid straight from the AISIN factory! Also they used to sell the clutches with different weight fluid (possibly a regional thing), or sell them dry and you would order the fluid you wanted. Anyhow, AFAIK there’s no way to buy the AISIN clutch with a heavier weight fluid, which you’d think would be a good idea for a 22RE hauling a motorhome!.. I digress..

 

I added ~15ml of 30,000 cst fluid and closed it back up and put everything back together. Immediately noticed the fan being more engaged, even after the initial warm up of the clutch. Road tested on the highway and pushed it as hard as I could with the AC blasting down the highway. Highest temp I saw was about 200! And getting back to a lower load it would cool back to 190 or lower very quickly. Perhaps I put too much oil in! I’m going to see how this affects gas mileage next season to decide whether to take it all back apart and take some of the -now mixed- fluid out. What’s left would be a higher viscosity still. I think perhaps there’s a bit more fluid than can fit in the reservoir so the fan probably isn’t disengaging as much as it should when it’s not hot. Further testing is required..

 

So, I suppose it’s possible that these OEM AISIN fan clutches are not all created equal, and even a brand new one could give you issues.. Especially if you’re running high loads or high ambient temps with these trucks. I wouldn’t be surprised if these C&C trucks originally came with the higher viscosity clutches. Of course, I had to go through 27 other possibilities with my rig before I ever thought to question a brand new OEM part!!!! ARGHHH 🤨

 

I hope this post helps someone else having above normal temps in these circumstances. Hopefully it’s as simple as a fan clutch and NOT a head gasket!

 

Cheers!
 

 

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Managing the heat on these 22re campers is critical. Extra weight puts the little motor to work extra hard and it gets hot. Prolonged high temps decrease the head gasket lifespan as well as all other gaskets and rubber parts. I found I need to keep a close eye on cooling systems on my motor; belts, water pump, coolant level, also oil dip stick as she uses some oil. I listen for my fan to kick on and off while using the vehicle and keep an eye on my temps. Also installed a trans temp gauge. I inspect my 22re far more frequently than other cars at my house. 

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