18' Axles *DO* Fail - Replace Yours ASAP

[stamar]

Ive never seen that brand but it is all season tires.

Tire rack has continental vanco 2 summer tires at 82$

One thing I think everyone said this especially waiter, but didnt spell it out, buut a fake dually wheel is a single wheel.

Thats where youre confused. Its just an extremely wide single tire. It provides no extra stability it provides less its torquing the axle. mine was literally bent.

so all of these motorhomes until 85 had single wheel axles. I mean thats what a fake dually goes on, a single wheel axle.....

putting a single wheel on the axle doesnt change it thats why its FAKE its a FAKE dually. They came from the factory with single wheel axles and FAKE duallies....

the only reason for a fake dually wheel is to use passenger tires , two of them, Its what caused the axles to snap off and the things to wreck.

Now, the fact that theres too much weight on the axle in the first place causing it to wear out may be and it certainly doesnt help... the fact that theres fake duallies on the thing bending the axle wrong combine with it. Once you have single wheels and truck tires, if you can, youre still overloaded but youre not bending the bearing off....

I am positive theres a whole thread on this in whats called engine and suspension. Its prbably the single most faq in the toyota motorhome forum... maybe less and less as the fake duallies either wreck or get upgraded. Its why I came here in the first place absolutely

so i mean if you have a light 18 foot motorhome thats ok, or there might even be 16 foot ones, none of them are ok with a fake dually wheel. All the ones that are ok need it changed out for a single 14 inch wheel.

[stamar]

I dont think fake dually wheels are legal for any car at all regardless of weight.

The only things that Ive seen them on are motorhomes and it stopped sometime in the 80s. There might be some I just doubt it.

my friend has an 18 foot sunrader it has the full floating rear end.

[Derek up North]

... a fake dually wheel is a single wheel.

Thats where youre confused. Its just an extremely wide single tire.

?

[stamar]

it has two tires, but it is one wheel

it is not a dually wheel. Sorry If I made a mistake anywhere. and put tire where there should be wheel. It is not a dually wheel its a fake dually wheel.

It does have two tires.

I dont even know what rv you have derek but in the event youve looked at the wheels in back a dually has two wheels one goes inside the other.

A fake dually is just a single wheel. It has two tires on it.

a fake dually is a single wheel lol its just very wide. thats what it is....

[Derek up North]

it has two tires, but it is one wheel

A fake dually is just a single wheel. It has two tires on it.

a fake dually is a single wheel lol its just very wide. thats what it is....

Some are, some aren't. Check it out. Then we can LOL together.

[stamar]

Some are some arent what?

I had fake dually wheels in my rv before this one. in fact let me go to the way back machine here on the forum. believe it or not i might be the only person who took pictures.

[Derek up North]

Some are single wheels and some are 2 wheels.

[stamar]

hmmm well the ones that have two wheels..... are real duallies.

man its terrible, the post is still here on the forum but the picture of the wheel is gone.

anyhow its a single wheel fake dually. as a wheel it looks kind of likke a thimble... or a barrel actually..

now in the event theres a two peice single wheel thats would still be one wheel.

on the other hand if theress two wheels thats a real dually.

Im not aware of a way to attach two wheels to a single axle. There dont seem to be pictures of something like that.

ya in theory if you were attaching an outside wheel to ann inside wheel that would still be one wheel in two peices. But if thats what you mean at least I understand that.

[Derek up North]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-campers/photos/album/2138741129/pic/1022378366/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

[stamar]

yaa

actually all fake duallys are kind of sort of made of two wheels. but they become one wheel if you follow.....

In that particular case they are not even welded together but bolted. made from two wheels I totally agree with you.

I didnt know someone had something like that but now I do.

its still one wheel... now..... its on a single wheel axle.

[Derek up North]

LOL

[5Toyota]

when i was given the 78 Minimax it had rear rims bolted together to make duals on a five lug axle. I WAS ALSO GIVEN A JUNK SET OF RUSTED DOUBLE RIMS WELDED TOGETHER. somebody bent them trying to change tires. i was told at les shuab that some of the rv makers welded the rims together he had changed them in the old days said they were very difficult to mount tires. THE welded rims where originally on the Minimax

[stamar]

ya im not personally understanding how they fit on a balancing machine..

[Derek up North]

when i was given the 78 Minimax it had rear rims bolted together to make duals on a five lug axle.

Like these foolly pictures?

LOL

[Derek up North]

Here's a 1-pc Foolly picture. Described on CL as "14" Toyota dually wheels. 5X4.5. 4-inch backspacing, almost 10-inches out."

Plus a half-baked Foolly adapter to add a 2nd wheel.

Plus a 5-lug 'Bud' wheel.

[stamar]

well the orange ones are easier for the tire shop to change the tires now.

If there's a bearing in the outer um wheel mounting thing.... that is actually a dual wheel. Its not right though

[5Toyota]

PRETTY CLOSE DEREK BUT NOT RED EXP RUST LOL those red ones look to be the welded together type. and those bolted type are what was on there. the welded ones i got were bent by somone trying to change tires i took them to metel scrap

[zero]

Words and phrases strung together do not mean the same thing to everybody. Maybe in a confined esoteric technical discussion but not to the general public. I'm well aware of the various concoctions to get two-tires-per-side on the rear axle of Toyota RVs et. al. To me when I hear "fake duallies" on a Toyota - it includes any two-tire-per-side combination on a rear axle never intended to carry the weight load of four tires. Welded, Budd style, bolted together, etc. I.e. the combined max weight load of the four D or E range tires is similar to the max weight rating of the axle assembly. The Toyota so-called "1/2 ton axle" only has a max rating around 3300- 3600 lbs. Four E-range 14" tires have a combined rating of 6000- 6400 lbs. The Toyota full-floating rear axle is has a rating over 5000 lbs, might even be 6000 lbs. Hard to state for sure because posted max axle ratings usually take into account the brake package and spring package and do not always reflect the the axle itself can handle.

[Derek up North]

I'd agree with your definition.

185R14 Load range D tires are rated at 1760lb (dual) @ 65psi x 4 = 7040lb. I don't think we have to worry about overloaded tires (unless 1 goes flat). Even Load Range C are good for 1518 (@50psi) x 4 = 6072lb.

[Derek up North]

Here are specs published in a magazine for the 20' Winnebago. GAWR is listed at 3750lb (rear).

A couple of other interesting numbers are the rear axle ratio (I'd have expected to see 4.10:1) and the MPG (they report better without using O/D).

[waiter]

Derek, I noted that also gas mileage better without OD.

Next time I get mine out, I'll bring it by the scales and weigh each axle, just to compare with this one.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Derek up North]

If anyone's interested in reading the whole November 1986 article it's available in the Yahoo Group Files.

[Derek up North]

... gas mileage better without OD.

"While using overdrive, we found gas mileage decreased slightly; on one stretch we lost a full mile per gallon, dropping to 18.5mpg."

The way I interpret English, the worst they saw was 18.5mpg, though the specs (to me) imply that's the average. So was the 19.5mpg they saw without O/D for only 1 stretch as well? Maybe a stretch with a good tail wind? To me, at least, it kind of throws the whole mpg info into doubt. I'm afraid the best I'll accept is 'there doesn't appear to be much difference'.

[zero]

Here are specs published in a magazine for the 20' Winnebago. GAWR is listed at 3750lb (rear).

A couple of other interesting numbers are the rear axle ratio (I'd have expected to see 4.10:1) and the MPG (they report better without using O/D).

You cannot compare the MPG figures with OD and without OD to a Toyota with a manual trans. The automatic has built-in 15% waste and slippage under normal use since it lacks lockup. In OD with the wind resistance it probably slips even more then when not in OD.

I have an 86 diesel RV that used to lack lockup. 3.73 axles. It always drove better and got a bit better fuel mileage when in 3rd (1 to 1) instead of 4th OD (.7) until I got rid of the 15-20% waste of the torque converter and install a lockup. It now gets better MPGs in OD (on a fairly flat highway). Too underpowered to use OD in hilly areas.

[zero]

"While using overdrive, we found gas mileage decreased slightly; on one stretch we lost a full mile per gallon, dropping to 18.5mpg."

The way I interpret English, the worst they saw was 18.5mpg, though the specs (to me) imply that's the average. So was the 19.5mpg they saw without O/D for only 1 stretch as well? Maybe a stretch with a good tail wind? To me, at least, it kind of throws the whole mpg info into doubt. I'm afraid the best I'll accept is 'there doesn't appear to be much difference'.

Is your's automatic or manual? Can't compare the two unless the automatic has lock-up mode to eliminate the 15-20% torque converter slippage.

[Derek up North]

The one they drove and gave MPG figures for had the A43D transmission without locking torque converter. I'm just questioning their methodology.

[zero]

The one they drove and gave MPG figures for had the A43D transmission without locking torque converter. I'm just questioning their methodology.

That's what I figured. A torque converter sized properly slips 15% at highway crusing speed and more when it's overworked (like in OD in a Toyota RV). Even though the gearing results in OD in the trans, the extra slippage in torque converter does otherwise and defeats it. This is why simple torque converters were eliminated in most cars and trucks years ago. A "locking" torque converter when in "lock-up" mode is no longer a fluid torque converter. If the same RV had a manual trans with OD, I suspect it would not have the power to run at highway speeds with a four cylinder engine unless it was specially geared for it via the rear axle. My little Subaru Impreza with a 2.5 liter four banger and five speed OD has 3.90 axle ratios. My Kia Sportgage with a 2 liter engine and five speed has 4.10 axle ratios. My Geo Tracker with a 1.6 engine ( I think) and five speed has 4.33 ratio axles.

[linda s]

I did lots of tests with overdrive and not on highway 5, long flat road in central valley Ca and I always got better mileage with it off. Haven't turned it on in years now and the tranny that was iffy when I bought it is still running fine with no work done other than adding some Lucas tranny stuff.

Linda S

[zero]

Technically any auto engine is most efficient when run at its peak torque curve. With Toyota that's 2400 RPM with a 2.2 and 2800 RPM with a 2.4.

With stock 14" truck tires, 2.4 engine and at 65 MPH - a standard trans with overdrive would need a 3.9 ratio rear-axle to get the desired RPM.

Note that just because an engine runs most efficient at a given RPM, that does not necessarily mean the auto gets the best fuel mileage at that same RPM. One silly example is when rolling down a steep hill an auto gets great fuel mileage and the engine is not working in its torque and is running very inefficiently.

If 55 MPH was the target speed - a 4.3 rear-axle ratio would give the target RPM.

Without OD? With a standard trans without OD (a four speed)? A 3.9 rear at 55 MPH gives the optimal RPM. At 65 MPH with no OD a 3.3 ratio rear would be needed to get the correct RPM.

With automatic - it's not so easy to calculate. A torque converter working properly at a maintained highway speed is slipping 15% all the time. That's 15% making waste heat. Lug it, overload it, drive into a strong wind, etc. and that slippage increases. I don't know if Toyota ever made a HD torque converter intended for the kind of load and wind resistance that RVs with fixed high roofs get. I haven't seen any listed anywhere. All I've seen are the same size and stall-speed.

A Toyota RV with standard trans (four speed) with a 4.10 rear at 55 MPH has the engine spinning at 2960 RPM.
Same RV with auto trans (non lock-up) NOT in OD with a 4.10 rear at 55 MPH probably has the engine spinning at 3400 RPM and higher when climbing hills.
Put the same into OD and I don't know exactly what happens. More load and more converter slippage and more energy wasted to heat. How much the converter slippage increases, I do not know. Somebody needs to report on one that has an accurate tachometer.

[90toydolphin]

i think this has been addressed before, but anyone know for sure if the 1989 automatic behind the V6 has a lock up type converter?

[waiter]

I would trade the 4th gear for a lock up torque converter anytime. I (we) have a lot of very intelligent people on this forum, is there any valvology that could be added to this tranny to make the torque converter lock up.

Controlling the valve or whatever is easy. I do this for a living. I just need a valve to turn on / off to get the TC to lock up.

Anyone??

(note- I use the OD when I'm going down hill, with a strong tail wind, works almost as good a "N".

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[zero]

i think this has been addressed before, but anyone know for sure if the 1989 automatic behind the V6 has a lock up type converter?

I would not stake my life on it, but I'm pretty sure the V6 motorhomes of that vintage came with the A340E trans with electroncially controlled lockup converter. Look at your VIN # .

[Derek up North]

AFAIK, all 22R-E (I4) are backed by the A43D (non-locking torque converter), all 3VZ-E (V6) are backed by the A340 (locking torque converter).

[zero]

I would trade the 4th gear for a lock up torque converter anytime. I (we) have a lot of very intelligent people on this forum, is there any valvology that could be added to this tranny to make the torque converter lock up.

Controlling the valve or whatever is easy. I do this for a living. I just need a valve to turn on / off to get the TC to lock up.

Anyone??

(note- I use the OD when I'm going down hill, with a strong tail wind, works almost as good a "N".

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

I'm not an expert on the Aisin auto tranmissions that Toyota uses. That being said - lock-up is controlled electronically just like GM and Ford is. I added a manual lock-on my GM. I especially wanted it so I could get lock-up in lower gears when wanted. Just a toggle switch on the dash wired to a blinking LED warning light so I don't forget its on. Connect it to the lock-up solenoid at the bottom of the trans. I suspect it is just as easy to wire into to an Aisin in a Toyota.

What do you mean about "trading 4th gear for lock-up?"

They are not mutally exclusive. The Toyota trans with OD had four gears -with lockup or without. Since lock-up mode can result in a 15% drop in RPM it can feel like a 5th gear.

[waiter]

My tranny has the OD, but not a lock up converter. I would rather have the lockup. I'm about 99% sure its a A43D

Anyway, do you have any idea on how the to make the TC lock up? Like I say designing the controller would be easy, but what do I control, could a valve be added to force it to lockup?

JOhn Mc