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I've got a 1981 Toyota Dolphin with 55K, that's riding low in the rear and am thinking of NOT re-arching the leaf springs but adding 2 more leaves to each side.  The shop said that he's re-arch them "If you make me" but they'll just fall again in 1 1/2 - 2 years again"  He's suggesting adding 2 more leaves on each side.  At the same time, since the rig'll be up in the air, I'm also thinking of replacing the shocks.  Any  advise on leaf springs or what type of shocks to replace the originals with?

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Your axle rests on top of the leaf springs. Adding extra leafs will only lower your ride height. Heavy duty adjustable shackles would be a better investment. 

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Thanks for the advise of getting Heavy duty adjustable shackles.  I'll look into where to find them and see what it takes to install them.  

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Hey Kirk had the same problem with Grannie. Went to an old school spring shop in Akron Ohio where they re-arched my springs in a hot forge and added 2 additional heavy duty leafs to each side. I also installed Bilstein shocks all around. I don’t have air bags. After all this was done her sagging rear end was raised 5 inches! She now sits level and No bottoming out anymore. 

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I also respectfully disagree with Fred. 

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Hi Kirk,

Like Mark, our 1985 Rogue was riding very low and we took to a nearly century old spring shop.  They added two leafs to each side, cold arched the pack, and installed new bushings. We then had Les Schwab install KYB shocks (lifetime warranty).  Our rear was lifted around 3" and the coach is nearly level all the way around. Fast forward a couple years and it sits the same.  Though we spent nearly $1500 on this suspension work, it's been the biggest performance improvement to our RV.  No more sway when cornering (even on tight mountain roads).  The ride is also very comfortable not jarring as some have experienced using Bilstein shocks. Interesting note is the old timer who ran the shop was not too keen on the air bags systems many have installed on their rigs.  He was very happy to see that our RV never had these.  He said that a properly configured shackle pack should never need an air bag supplement.

Edited by Rogue Runner
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21 hours ago, KirkGray said:

leaf springs

Do you have any air bag type system on the axle?  One solution could be just get new OME 6-leaf CS009R springs.  About $250 total with bushings shipped on ebay right now.    How might that compare in terms of price to adding leaves?  This only gets you about 3/4" over stock height and that may or may not be enough for you.   CS010R  springs are a few dollars more but would get you 1.75" rear lift over stock.   

EDIT:  Opp, just realized you had an '81.  I'm not sure if the OME springs will fit.  Their catalog doesn't actually specify them for my pickup either but they fit so maybe they will fit yours too.  They made them for the 4x4 crowd.  They are 2 and 3/8" in width.  If you want to determine if they fit let me know and I can send more measurements.

Springs would ideally be paired with air bags but if you can hit the preferred height with just springs or extra leaves then you are good to go.   Per the previous post, I'm not sure why someone would be opposed to airbags.  I find them to be incredibly useful.

Edited by AtlantaCamper
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5 hours ago, markwilliam1 said:

I also respectfully disagree with Fred. 

If you add springs below the primary leaf it won’t lower the ride height. If you add something like a “helper spring” above the primary leaf it WILL lower the ride height. 

Maybe I wasn’t clear on that part of my post. 

Adding a properly arched leaf to the spring pack may help a little, but it won’t compensate for the other nutral or negative arch of the existing spring pack. Shackle extension would give you the best “bang for the buck” if you want to increase the ride height. I fabricated mine from 3/8” flat stock steel. There are pictures here somewhere of this fabrication (Derek?).

Edited by fred heath
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1 hour ago, fred heath said:

Adding a properly arched leaf to the spring pack may help a little, but it won’t compensate for the other nutral or negative arch of the existing spring pack. Shackle extension would give you the best “bang for the buck”

It's true that a shackle extension is a handy way to adjust ride height (up or down), but if the springs themselves don't have enough 'spring' left in them to actually function then it's not an effective approach overall.  When you look at your current springs, are they squashed flat or do they still have some arch/lift in them?  If all of the leaves are basically flat then you have no spring left.   They won't actually do their job, no matter how tall the shackle is.  Adding leaves can work, but Fred is right that you will be fighting the existing spring pack if they are really shot. 

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I made my shackle extensions from 3/8" x 1.25" flat steel stock. Grade 8 bolts. And I used plumbing pipe nipples inside the new rubber to keep it from compressing when bolts are tightened.

The single picture is the new shackle. The double is the old Toyota unit on the right and new unit on the left.

post-5914-0-17008200-1393326750_thumb.jp

post-5914-0-86138700-1393326865_thumb.jp

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Very nice shackles Fred.  I like the adjustable approach.  Did you basically just have to drill the holes into the stock metal and then do some cutting of the flat steel stock and plumbing pipe to make them?  That seems pretty do-able.  

I wanted to change the shackles in my rig but my gray water tank would have to be removed to get one of the old shackles out and I didn't have the gumption to un-do all of the plumbing connections to that tank just to do that.  I came close enough to my desired ride height with the springs plus air bags approach so I didn't need to do custom shackles; however, your design makes that an enticing option.

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20 hours ago, Rogue Runner said:

Hi Kirk,

Like Mark, our 1985 Rogue was riding very low and we took to a nearly century old spring shop.  They added two leafs to each side, cold arched the pack, and installed new bushings. We then had Les Schwab install KYB shocks (lifetime warranty).  Our rear was lifted around 3" and the coach is nearly level all the way around. Fast forward a couple years and it sits the same.  Though we spent nearly $1500 on this suspension work, it's been the biggest performance improvement to our RV.  No more sway when cornering (even on tight mountain roads).  The ride is also very comfortable not jarring as some have experienced using Bilstein shocks. Interesting note is the old timer who ran the shop was not too keen on the air bags systems many have installed on their rigs.  He was very happy to see that our RV never had these.  He said that a properly configured shackle pack should never need an air bag supplement.

That’s interesting because the owner of the old spring shop I had my work done doesn’t like or recommend air bags  either! BTW your not gunna like this but all new bushings, Hot arched,  2 new heavy duty leaves on each side, new brackets $450 out the door! Rides like a dream.

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Hi Mark,

I remember talking with you before about our Spring Shop cost experience.  The prices we both paid I think we're at the extremes.  However in my defense, I also included my KYB shocks (and installation) in my $1500 cost.  We also have close to a 10% sales tax here in WA that we have to deal with. Ugh!

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I remember Rogue. I live close to Akron Ohio an old industrial town and the shop was very old with forges. The price spread for similar work in different parts of the country is Amazing. 10% sales tax Wow!

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Mark,

Yes, the sales tax here is high but at least we don't have state income tax.  😀 

The shop we went to was in Everett, WA. Established in 1906.  The old timer there was absolutely sold on "cold" arching the leaf springs using a huge press versus putting them in a furnace and heat forming them like your shop did.  I was skeptical of their process.  I told him that I read that cold forming won't keep it's arch.  His stare at me felt like daggers and he said, "We've been doing this for over 100 years.  Don't you think we might know a thing or two about doing a job like this right?"

Needless to say I didn't argue with him.  They took almost a week to re-arch my old springs and arch two more new leaf springs for each side.  They then put the packs together and installed each side with new U bolts, brackets, bushings, etc. I'm exceedingly happy with the result but often wonder which method (hot or cold) is truly the best. 

At least both of our old timers could agree about the airbag systems.  Maybe they saw these systems as competition to their craft?  My guy felt they are band aids at best. His opinion was that a well designed and installed spring pack should never need an air bag supplement.  

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On 3/6/2019 at 9:28 AM, Rogue Runner said:

The shop we went to was in Everett, WA. 

Would you mind sharing the name of the shop? I need similar work done and don’t really want to put air bags on my 4x4. I could easily take the train back home over the pass while they did the work.

Just curious, did you talk to Gitt Spring in Auburn? 

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3 hours ago, Freestone said:

 

Would you mind sharing the name of the shop? I need similar work done and don’t really want to put air bags on my 4x4. I could easily take the train back home over the pass while they did the work.

Just curious, did you talk to Gitt Spring in Auburn? 

There's a shop in Yakima that does this old school spring work. It's called White Front Shop. 332 S 1st street Yakima Wa

Phone 509-457-5595. 

Like I said old school. They don't have a website. They were recommended by 5toyota a long time member here

Linda S

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3 hours ago, linda s said:

There's a shop in Yakima that does this old school spring work. It's called White Front Shop. 332 S 1st street Yakima Wa

Phone 509-457-5595

Like I said old school. They don't have a website. They were recommended by 5toyota a long time member here

Linda S

Thanks, Linda! I called them years ago for a quote and couldn’t find their contact info again now that I am getting closer to having the work done.

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16 hours ago, Freestone said:

 

Would you mind sharing the name of the shop? I need similar work done and don’t really want to put air bags on my 4x4. I could easily take the train back home over the pass while they did the work.

Just curious, did you talk to Gitt Spring in Auburn? 

Hi Freestone,

The company is Aalbu Brothers.  They have moved to Smokey Point (near Arlington WA).  Their phone number is: 425-252-9751.  It seems they have sold since I was there.  Cal and Larry were the old timers I dealt with but Larry has unfortunately passed away. Cal in his mid to late eighties felt it time to sell as Larry had done most of the physical work.

I chose them due to their proximity to me here in Bellingham so I didn't consider any other shops.

Hope that helps!

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