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SunRader Interior Walls/Roof Support for rebuild


whittlesey001

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Hi all!

 I just purchased a Sunrader that was already gutted. I want to start designing my rebuild. I was curious if people could lead me to old threads or info on the best ways of reinforcing the walls and roof structure. I am tending to believe my roof is sagging, but not sure. From floor to ceiling it measures right at or just shy of 72 inches. Does anyone know the correct measurement?

I have seen the way the Bound for No Where used cut down 2x4s as studs and fiber glassed over them on the walls for support. Is this the best method? Also Why not use aluminum studs? 

Thanks again!! Glad to be part of the community and learn as much as possible during this journey!!

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  • 10 months later...

Hello there.
I'm not sure why there aren't any responses to your post here.
Did you find any threads to help?
I'm interested because we are just beginning our project with an 86 Sunrader that I will have to fully gut and build out.
Appreciate any help anyone can provide.

Thanks. Rick

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  • 5 weeks later...

Well Hello All,  I have been too preoccupied with other matters of late and after visiting for the first time in quite a bit, happened across this thread with some regret. I am not sure what the original poster ended up fabricating, but, indeed the same thought occurred to me before him some time ago and I went with it. I'm not saying this is the "best" way, or the only way, just "another" way that has been done. My usual disclaimer, "It worked for me".

My reasons for arching 1 1/4" aluminum tubing to the roof contour, (created by using a brace and spreading the load with a piece of 3/8" plywood as pictured below), instead of going straight across and filling the space in the arch, was to create as much headroom as possible. I am 5' 9 1/2" and can now comfortably walk around in my finished rig with a smidgen of head space.

I considered the remedy that was used by BFNW, but I also wanted to correctly re-arch the sagging roof as well anyway, and wanted to install straight upright braces to strengthen the walls, to prevent what some RV builders call "oil-canning" or booming in the walls when driving in forceful winds. I do not regret either modification and, after about 3 yrs, have found no downside to the mods at all. 

The tubing was/is wrapped and attached to the walls/ceiling in 3 alternating layers of fiberglass .(oriented strand cloth, then random strand cloth, then oriented strand cloth) It is a challenge to 'glass upside down, but do-able. (For any large piece of fiberglass-work, I recommend buying a tyvek suit to save your work-clothes and clothes washer, use the hood or a hat and also wear goggles) In the end, with a layer of reflectix stacked on top of a layer of 5/8" rigid insulation against the interior shell between the braces, and topped by 1/8" ply that is upholstered, the finished ceiling came out flush with the 'glassed-in tubing and the braces are flush. (See finished pix below) Anyway, I hope this might be helpful to anyone questioning the feasibility of a similar solution. I hope all are warm, dry and well.

BR,

TG

Multi Ceiling.jpg

Reinforce 1.jpg

Reinforce  2.jpg

Back closed.JPG

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Hi TG,

Wow that looks really great! I recently just bought an 85 sunrader with a sagging roof that I need to fix and am looking into options right now. When you jacked up the roof how much were you able to jack it up? Right now I've been able to raise mine maybe 1" but I've been really timid as I don't want to mess up the fiberglass structure and crack it or anything by jacking up too much. Did you just kinda go for it? Or did you slowly jack it up over time allowing the roof to accept the new shape?

Also how did you bend the aluminium bars? Did you create a jig to make the bend?

Any advice on what you might do if you were to do this project again?

Thanks for any help you might be able to give!

Jay

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Hi JaySam,  My roof, like many, had been the victim of an unsupported A/C unit and as a result, had sagged probably about 2" +/- allowing the back to collect water and leak at the vent port causing all matter of rot  in the interior paneling and mounting cleats.  I had the same concerns you do about restoring the original arching too quickly, but I did it in the heat of summer here in Kali and went a bit at a time over a couple of days.

Also, though I recalled a 3/8" piece of plywood against the interior roof, in my prior entry above, it may have been 1/2' or 5/8". It seems to me I experimented with different scraps I had laying around until I got what "looked right" to spread the load under the roof and got it sort of matching the forward contour over the bathroom, where it's more supported by the shower stall under it as original. (mine is the rear-dinette model). 

One inch may do you, it all depends on how "pushed-down" your back roof is...  A big help is if you can look at another SunRader, if there's one close by. I had no such luck, so I tried 3 jacks under the plywood, then 2 jacks and ended up using 1 as shown. After some time, it just looked like a sort of graceful curve, correct and not stressed in the middle. BTW, if you are into a complete interior re-fab,  I HIGHLY recommend using something like the construction jacks pictured above,.Something very closely like them can be bought at Harbor Freight, or if you have a friend who does drywall work, he may be able to lend you something. After all, you will need something to hold up the finished braces to bond them to the ceiling (with 2 free hands) anyway. They were exremely useful when re-doing panelling and cabinets as well.

Once I got the arc right, I made a cardboard template for each of the two brace locations, and folded them in the middle, overlapping one half over the other, then trimming both sides a bit to average them  and get the (unfolded) arch even side-to-side on both. I didn't form and bend the tubing myself, since I can't weld aluminum anyway, and I had no stock, so I had it done. I likely paid too much, about $200 for material, and labor on 4 braces (I DID say $ Kali $, after all), but I also got this extremely good welder to strengthen the wanna-be welds on the roof- ladder without blowing-through the thin ladder tubing and that was definately worth doing.

The only thing I would do different, if I were to do it again, is make and install 2 more braces for the front roof, that's all.

Just take your time and do lots of test-fits, stop, have a cup of joe and sit and look at it. If it doesn't look quite right, either come back to it tomorrow with a new head of steam or fix it.  Remember, if you compromise, every time you walk under it, you're going to wish you hadn't. I got stuff wrong and went back to fix it. It's how we get to be better fabricators.

Don't forget to leave a bit of space at the corners/ends of the uprights to pass wiring through, at the top of the sides, if you're going to re-wire the coach. I suggest an opening at least the size of a nickle, more, if possible, as you may want to take the opportuniy to upgrade to larger gauge wire. See strips in above pix.

PS Consider backing fridge vent panel and water heater door port screw-holes, as well as any other exterior screws prone to stripping, with 1/8" aluminum sheet to give exterior screws a  lasting bite. Most of my exterior coach screws were either stripped, or ready to go. If you're loaded with jing, go with stainless screws. I'm gonna stop here......

May the Hardware Gods be with you,

BR, ToyoGuy

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Thanks for all that great info, BR. It is much appreciated.
I couldn't wait and I went ahead and just used wood and glue and fiberglass on my ceiling.
It seems very solid now and has managed to keep a pretty good curve. Once I get building the inside I will prop up the roof with the help of a post on each side about half way down that will live as part of the shelves or cabinets.
Mine is a 1986 21' RD that had been damaged by a large tree branch.
Before this, it had been neglected and suffered quite a bit of water damage. Although, it is always uplifting - if that's the right word - to see others have dealt with far worse and managed to come out the other end. I drove it from central California where we bought it, up here to Canada. Runs ok but goes through a bit of oil and probably needs a clutch. But I have to deal with the home side first before digging into any mechanical issues.
All the cabinets and appliances and the dinette were pretty far gone and had to go. The floor was nasty deep into the rear corner. I fixed it and hoisted that side up an inch or two underneath. Could not afford to do a full steel wing job, but this works.
And now I'm finished with the floor. Cleaned it all up. Shored up the weak spots. And put down a solid 3/4" top screwed and glued and fiberglassed to the shell in some spots.
Those aluminium side pieces you made are an interesting addition. I may look into that as I move forward.
I have fiberglassed in all the voids and have started filling a few holes on the roof. Both vents are in rough shape and have to be replaced. All the windows have to come off and be cleaned up and put back in. Then I guess I will have to get at those dreaded curved front windows.
Otherwise, all good and moving steadily forward.
Rick
 

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ToyoGuy: Lots of good advice and info, thanks a ton! I like your idea of adding bracing around vent holes and whatnot for screws, good call.

 

When you say you'd add 2 roof supports to the front do you mean the cab-over bed area or the front of the coach where the bathroom is?

 

How did you attach the square brace to the sidewall? Just glue and pressure or did you bolt or screw it down?

 

Rick: Did the wood bracing in the roof hold the arch you placed in it? Or did it drop a touch when you removed the supports?

 

Thanks again for all the advice, pics and help!

Jay

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Jay. The wood bracing is not the dream arch I was hoping for, but holding fine.

If I could do it again I would follow BR's advice and go aluminum. Seems like a no brainer.
I want an accentuated arch up top to stop water from pooling up there.
I won't have an air con and not planning to party up there...

Eventually a rack and new vents, but any advantage in getting water off is a postive.

Rick

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Hey Rick,

 

Good to know, thanks for the advice.

 

I'm thinking of using 1/2" steel square tube for the ceiling as I'm trying to get as much height as possible, think that would be strong enough or would a thicker tube be necessary? Right now I'm thinking 5 rafters of 1/2" steel square tube should be more than plenty, or aluminium if I can swing it. The advantage of steel is I have buddies who can weld it but not aluminium

 

Jay

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Hey JaySam,

I meant installing 2 more braces in the overhead-bunk area.

In the 18' Back-dinette model, with solid (new) flooring, the bath and shower-stall seemed to support my middle-ceiling well. I went with wood bracing in the bunk area, but now I'm spoiled by the great resilience in the back and, in hindsight, I wish I'd gone the extra-mile up front too. Just a personal fabrication quality thing.

 

On the other,

I fiber-glassed the end-plates to the wall. (photo below) I used alternating random and oriented weave cloth over the plate, as advised by my friend who owns a fiberglass construction company.

 

My last confession, on the screw thing, as an obscessed yard-sale engineer, is that I machine tapped the screw holes for stainless machine screws in backing plates for everything that mounts from the outside of the coach. (top vent photo only) I did the ladder, stove vent top racks, LPG port, Wtr Htr port etc. I have no regrets, particularly when I have a repair or maintenance to do, and everything screws back together nice and smooth and tight, time after time.  After initially tapping 10 or so holes by hand, I discovered that with two drill guns, I could drill the hole through the backing aluminum with one drill, then lube the tap bit I had mounted in the other drill gun and, at slow speed, carefully tap about 1 hole per each minute or so.  Again, just my method, not for everybody. Hope this helps,  TG

Brace end.JPG

Port.JPG

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Thanks Rick,

You know, I've been haunting this website for 10 yrs now and I still find stuff I "wish I would'a known then". Also, as far as textbook, bear in mind, it did sit in my back patio for 3 yrs.... :omg:

A lot of people were out and on the road having fun while I was still figuring some of these things things out.

Based on your post, you have some challenging projects ahead.

Maybe get the rig water tight and ready for a summer-break and leave some cosmetic interior stuff for next winter. I ran a heater inside sometimes during the winter to get my hands thawed out and stuff done. (plenty of ventilation at that point)

BTW, IMHO,  get a good friend to help you with those front windows, you'll likely need it. There are some excellent entries here on how to go about it.

Thanks again for your kind compliments,

TG

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