AbleThought Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Hi guys! I'm going to install an isolator to charge the house. My rig is a 83 Toyo Sunrader. first question i have is where is the best place to tap into the ignition? second is i was going to fuse between the driving battery - solenoid and between the solenoid - house battery with ANL fuses.. am i using the output amperage of my alternator to determine those fuses? thanks all. look forward to showing you guys my remodel. It's days away from completion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, AbleThought said: Hi guys! im going to install an isolator to charge the house. My rig is a 83 toyo sunrader. first question i have is where is the best place to tap into the ignition? second is i was going to fuse between the driving battery - solenoid and between the solenoid - house battery with ANL fuses.. am i using the output amperage of my alternator to determine those fuses? thanks all look forward to showing you guys my remodel its days away from completion Most people tap off the wiper motor harness. Be sure to check you have both high and low wiper speeds after you tap into that line. I had to relocate my ignition power to a different wire because I lost my high speed when I did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 I think most manufacturers installed 30A circuit breakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Yes 30-35 amp it watches wire size. An auto reset breaker would be a better option than a fuse most auto parts stores will have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 11:40 AM, fred heath said: Most people tap off the wiper motor harness. Be sure to check you have both high and low wiper speeds after you tap into that line. I had to relocate my ignition power to a different wire because I lost my high speed when I did it. i see what was the reason your wiper motor stopped working on high? will i hit the same snag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 21 hours ago, Derek up North said: I think most manufacturers installed 30A circuit breakers. i see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 17 hours ago, Maineah said: Yes 30-35 amp it watches wire size. An auto reset breaker would be a better option than a fuse most auto parts stores will have them. any recomendation on wire size btw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 If it's the stock wiring it's a a #8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAatTheCape Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I replace my solenoid years ago -the instructors for that solenoid specify 10 gauge. If your camper came with 8 gauge that is better yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Winnebago drawings show 10ga, National 8ga. 1990 Body 095714.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 17 hours ago, AbleThought said: i see what was the reason your wiper motor stopped working on high? will i hit the same snag? I suspect the continuous duty relay uses just enough of the available 12V supply that the rheostat for the wiper switch is unable to reach the high speed setting. My rig is an early production 1979 with the pull switch on the dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 11, 2018 Author Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) so here is the plan... see if yall approve then ill do it. ( pic 1 is solenoid hookup / pic two is fuse tap plan ) it should be ok to take the alternator wire ( currently on center lug of isolator ) and starting battery wire and put them both on solenoid lug right? as for the positive lug on house battery i can just keep 30amp breakers in between solanoid and house and house and load panel right? Edited June 11, 2018 by AbleThought adding photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I would not use a fuse inrush current maybe enough to blow it. A 30-35 amp auto reset breaker would be a better choice. On your rely it does not matter what small terminal you use and easy instal would be to land the ground under one of the bolts that hold the relay on to the body work. Yeah you can put the alt. B+ on that terminal as long as it goes back the the truck battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 33 minutes ago, Maineah said: I would not use a fuse inrush current maybe enough to blow it. A 30-35 amp auto reset breaker would be a better choice. On your rely it does not matter what small terminal you use and easy instal would be to land the ground under one of the bolts that hold the relay on to the body work. Yeah you can put the alt. B+ on that terminal as long as it goes back the the truck battery. Im confused. how can i use a breaker? the fuse tap is to tap into the wiper motor line... i wouldnt know how else to tap into it other than the fuse box. as far as my line to the coach and line between the solenoid and coach battery i will have breakers there.. the ones that are in the truck from isolator setup.. 30 amp i believe but could be wrong gotta check on that. good news on the alt and truck battery line seems to be the cleanest way to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I just looked at your pics. What are you trying to do? The wires on each side of that isolator go to truck battery or coach battery. The posts in the front or top in the pics are for wire direct from alternator and the other one is a ground. Leave your freaking wiper wire out of it. Not supposed to be part of the equation. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, linda s said: I just looked at your pics. What are you trying to do? The wires on each side of that isolator go to truck battery or coach battery. The posts in the front or top in the pics are for wire direct from alternator and the other one is a ground. Leave your freaking wiper wire out of it. Not supposed to be part of the equation. Linda S oof now im crazy confused ? from my understanding a typical solenoid setup would be coach batt on one side and start battery on the other. top 2 post are for ground and a keyed auxillary to power it. that typical setup assumes the alternator is connected to the start battery. since i have no spare fuses i was going to tap the wipers for the aux plug. ive never heard of the alternator on top lug scenario.. thats confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 i am also starting to question the solenoid i chose?? https://www.westmarine.com/buy/bep-marine--85a-continuous-duty-solenoid--17952045?recordNum=2 what do you guys think? amperage wise the idea is to have it higher than the alternator at its continuous amperage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 OK like I said I have a Sunrader. 2 of them in fact. Yes one side of that isolator goes to the coach battery and one side goes to the truck battery. The isolator doesn't require powering per se. It directs the power from your alternator to the truck battery and the coach battery but isolates one from the other. Again top posts go to ground and alternator. Power in at the top, power out on both sides. That is how both of mine were set up from the factory and how the original isolator manual that I have from the Sunrader factory shows it to be. The isolator you chose will work fine. It's just capable of handling more than your going to give it. It will still direct your power in the correct manner. This is the one in mine. I replaced it for no reason. Original one worked fine but we do like to replace stuff don't we. It has an 80 amp rating so not far off of yours https://www.rvautoparts.com/7001-S-Tekonsha-Battery-Isolator-For-Use-With-12-Volt-Battery-For_p_1158.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3v3YBRCOARIsAPkLbK46BxIB844n_115K2zN31_qI6Y51b05n9PKNClF5mheDO4LnBlCEm8aArjwEALw_wcB Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Your isolater picture shows youve got the wire placement correct. My isolater is wired the same way and works fine. The two small lugs are for ground and 12V power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 3 hours ago, linda s said: OK like I said I have a Sunrader. 2 of them in fact. Yes one side of that isolator goes to the coach battery and one side goes to the truck battery. The isolator doesn't require powering per se. It directs the power from your alternator to the truck battery and the coach battery but isolates one from the other. Again top posts go to ground and alternator. Power in at the top, power out on both sides. That is how both of mine were set up from the factory and how the original isolator manual that I have from the Sunrader factory shows it to be. The isolator you chose will work fine. It's just capable of handling more than your going to give it. It will still direct your power in the correct manner. This is the one in mine. I replaced it for no reason. Original one worked fine but we do like to replace stuff don't we. It has an 80 amp rating so not far off of yours https://www.rvautoparts.com/7001-S-Tekonsha-Battery-Isolator-For-Use-With-12-Volt-Battery-For_p_1158.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3v3YBRCOARIsAPkLbK46BxIB844n_115K2zN31_qI6Y51b05n9PKNClF5mheDO4LnBlCEm8aArjwEALw_wcB Linda S i see! id love to have that origonal solenoid scematic for future refference. have a pic of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, fred heath said: Your isolater picture shows youve got the wire placement correct. My isolater is wired the same way and works fine. The two small lugs are for ground and 12V power. what do you think of the alternator on top lug setup with no tapping into fuse box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 4 hours ago, linda s said: OK like I said I have a Sunrader. 2 of them in fact. Yes one side of that isolator goes to the coach battery and one side goes to the truck battery. The isolator doesn't require powering per se. It directs the power from your alternator to the truck battery and the coach battery but isolates one from the other. Again top posts go to ground and alternator. Power in at the top, power out on both sides. That is how both of mine were set up from the factory and how the original isolator manual that I have from the Sunrader factory shows it to be. The isolator you chose will work fine. It's just capable of handling more than your going to give it. It will still direct your power in the correct manner. This is the one in mine. I replaced it for no reason. Original one worked fine but we do like to replace stuff don't we. It has an 80 amp rating so not far off of yours https://www.rvautoparts.com/7001-S-Tekonsha-Battery-Isolator-For-Use-With-12-Volt-Battery-For_p_1158.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3v3YBRCOARIsAPkLbK46BxIB844n_115K2zN31_qI6Y51b05n9PKNClF5mheDO4LnBlCEm8aArjwEALw_wcB Linda S why do they refurr to this as an isolator and it says at the bottom “ contains solenoid NO “ i think this may look the same but be different from what i have. mine is a continuous duty solenoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Tekonsha 4-pole N7001.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) Your diagram above is how mine is wired. It allows the least amount of voltage drop from the alternator to the isolater. My 80 amp unit cost less than $20 and has worked fine for over 3 years. Attached is the original mfg wiring diagram along with a picture of my install. I disconnected the factory output wire from the alternator and attached it the the front lug(white wire). I then ran an 8 gage jumper from the alternator output terminal also to the front lug (red wire). The rear lug has a 8 gage wire running to the coach battery with a 30A resettable circuit breaker in between. Edited June 12, 2018 by fred heath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, fred heath said: Your diagram above is how mine is wired. It allows the least amount of voltage drop from the alternator to the isolater. My 80 amp unit cost less than $20 and has worked fine for over 3 years. Attached to the original mfg wiring diagram along with a picture of my install. I disconnected the factory output wire from the alternator and attached it the the front lug(white wire). I then ran an 8 gage jumper from the alternator output terminal also to the front lug (red wire). The rear lug has a 8 gage wire running to the coach battery with a 30A resettable circuit breaker in between. ok yes and you tapped into the wiper from the fuse box right for the “key on” voltage? would love to see a pic of that! thanks so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 26 minutes ago, Derek up North said: Tekonsha 4-pole N7001.pdf this is how i thought it was supposed to be run with the switch over from isolator to alternator.. lindas idea was different from this though and she said she had the schematics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) No, I couldn’t use the wiper supply because I lost my high speed function when I did. With the key on I probed various wires attached to old emissions components until I found one that was hot (I deleted all the emissions). Short yellow wire with inline fuse is what I use to power isolater. Edited June 12, 2018 by fred heath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, fred heath said: No, I couldn’t use the wiper supply because I lost my high speed function when I did. With the key on I probed various wires attached to old emissions components until I found one that was hot (I deleted all the emissions). Small yellow wire with inline fuse is what I use to power isolater. i see i see thats right. ok. i have not deleted emisions yet so ill give wipers a try and see if it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 12 hours ago, AbleThought said: Im confused. how can i use a breaker? the fuse tap is to tap into the wiper motor line... i wouldnt know how else to tap into it other than the fuse box. as far as my line to the coach and line between the solenoid and coach battery i will have breakers there.. the ones that are in the truck from isolator setup.. 30 amp i believe but could be wrong gotta check on that. good news on the alt and truck battery line seems to be the cleanest way to me. OK a fuse is fine in that application but redundant as there is already one downstream. That is basically the way the battery/alternator was wired from new the later ones came through the fuse panel and 60 amp fuse. 1 hour ago, AbleThought said: why do they refurr to this as an isolator and it says at the bottom “ contains solenoid NO “ i think this may look the same but be different from what i have. mine is a continuous duty solenoid. Solenoid/relay pretty much the same, the continuous type solenoid/relay is designed to carry the current needed to power the device continuously unlike a starter solenoid that looks the same it is designed for intermittent duty being used continuously it will soon fail from over heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 4 hours ago, fred heath said: Your diagram above is how mine is wired. It allows the least amount of voltage drop from the alternator to the isolater. My 80 amp unit cost less than $20 and has worked fine for over 3 years. Attached is the original mfg wiring diagram along with a picture of my install. I disconnected the factory output wire from the alternator and attached it the the front lug(white wire). I then ran an 8 gage jumper from the alternator output terminal also to the front lug (red wire). The rear lug has a 8 gage wire running to the coach battery with a 30A resettable circuit breaker in between. didnt the white wire come from your start battery? not your alternator? currently with the origonal isolator i have post 1 start battery post 2 alternator post 3 coach if i swap that isolator out for the solenoid i would just move the alternator and start battery line to side post( left post in my picture ) and move coach line to other post on isolator. then tap egnition and ground on top. isnt that right? the white in your pic is start batt the red on same post is alternator and other red is coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) You’re making this more complicated than it needs to be. The white wire is from a scrap piece of wire to make the distance to the 1st big lug. It has nothing to do with factory color code. Pretend you have no isolater. The wire that leaves the alternator goes directly to the truck battery usually through a thermal link close to the battery itself. Remove this wire from the alternator and extend as necessary using a similar gage extension wire (usually 12 or 10ga) to reach the 1st big lug on your isolater. Now fabricate a second wire (8 gage) that will go from the alternator output terminal and attach right along with the 1st wire already there. The wire going to the coach battery then gets attached to the rear lug. This completes your charge system. Add the ground and 12V supply(ignition) and your done. Forget color codes. This is all OTC wire from Home Depot. Your last observation is the correct one. White is truck battery red is jumper. Edited June 12, 2018 by fred heath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, fred heath said: You’re making this more complicated than it needs to be. The white wire is from a scrap piece of wire to make the distance to the 1st big lug. It has nothing to do with factory color code. Pretend you have no isolater. The wire that leaves the alternator goes directly to the truck battery usually through a thermal link close to the battery itself. Remove this wire from the alternator and extend as necessary using a similar gage extension wire (usually 12ga) to reach the 1st big lug on your isolater. Now fabricate a second wire (8 gage) that will go from the alternator output terminal and attach right along with the 1st wire already there. The wire going to the coach battery then gets attached to the rear lug. This completes your charge system. Add the ground and 12V supply(ignition) and your done. got it. did you put any breakers between alternator and solenoid or start battery and solenoid? i am realizing your truck has(had) a different setup then mine. on my truck the alternator is already seperate from the start battery. alternator ran to isolator. start battery ran to isolator as well. so if i just meet them on the solenoid its exactly what your saying to do. no need for extra wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, AbleThought said: got it. did you put any breakers between alternator and solenoid or start battery and solenoid? i am realizing your truck has(had) a different setup then mine. on my truck the alternator is already seperate from the start battery. alternator ran to isolator. start battery ran to isolator as well. so if i just meet them on the solenoid its exactly what your saying to do. no need for extra wire. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 6 hours ago, AbleThought said: why do they refurr to this as an isolator and it says at the bottom “ contains solenoid NO “ i think this may look the same but be different from what i have. mine is a continuous duty solenoid. Solenoid NO, means its a solenoid idolator, "normally open". simply put it means that when there is no trigger voltage the solenoid is open and isolating the batteries from each other. When the engine is running the 12 volts to the small terminal triggers the solenoid, it becomes closed connecting the batteries and the alternator charges BOTH batteries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, fred heath said: Yes. yes to my setup? or yes to new breakers between alt / solenoid and start battery / solenoid? i got it running now. voltage looks good. both batterys charging and wipers run just fine. just curious about adding the new breakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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