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Though I agree that there might be a small market for Sunrader fender flares, I don't know if it would make a good 'sideline' for someone living in an 18' Sunrader. Or even a 21' Sunrader.

I've no idea how the flares are mounted, but could this be an alternative to the real beading?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Bug-Super-Beetle-Fender-Beading-FULL-SET-OF-4-Notch-111821715A-49-79/162955313128?fits=Make%3AVolkswagen|Model%3ASuper+Beetle&epid=656797790&hash=item25f0e4bfe8:g:bBgAAOSwhVxaHPee

or

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2 hours ago, Derek up North said:

OK, but could beading not be used instead to tidy up any gaps in the fit? That's the only task of the unobtainable stuff, no? Better than nothing. Available in different colours, too. :)

I think it probably could do the trick. If we would have found this sooner, probably would have got some. We got the fender on yesterday and are just about ready to rock and roll (I hope).  ?

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  • 7 months later...

Hey everyone, wanted to give an update here and also finish this thread. So a LOT has changed over the last 8 months. We finished our Sunrader and as mentioned previously, on our first trip out the wheel came off and bad things happened. Shortly after that we left again and this time had zero wheels come off (YAY!). We made it up to Atlanta where we had a complete suspension overhaul. New leaf springs, shocks, and bushings all around. Despite all of this work we still were having issues with her handling. She was just too tippy for us, particularly on the forest roads that we planned to drive frequently (she is a 4x4 after all). After much debating we decided that she was never going to be the overlanding vehicle we had hoped she would be. We had poured so much of our time, money, love and energy into this vehicle and it was heart breaking to give up on her but at some point you just have to call it. That's what we did. We put her up for sale and she went quickly to her new home. We were completely transparent when selling her so that the new owners knew that we felt she still had work to be done. 

Now that some time has passed we've had a chance to get over the process and all the feelings associated with it. We can look back and be proud of what we accomplished even if it did take WAY longer than we wanted it to. We learned SO much and were introduced to a fantastic community of people.

Since then we bought a used Tacoma, built a bed platform and storage in the bed (over a weekend) and set off for 6 months exploring the Northeast and Canada. It was the best summer of our lives and in some weird way we can thank this whole process and our dear 4x4 Sunrader, Amelia for leading us there. It's my mission to get this thread completed so that the information is up here. All of this has already been written up on our blog and recently I finished editing a full video series on the entire build as well. 

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2 hours ago, Boundfornowhere said:

Hey everyone, wanted to give an update here and also finish this thread. So a LOT has changed over the last 8 months. We finished our Sunrader and as mentioned previously, on our first trip out the wheel came off and bad things happened. Shortly after that we left again and this time had zero wheels come off (YAY!). We made it up to Atlanta where we had a complete suspension overhaul. New leaf springs, shocks, and bushings all around. Despite all of this work we still were having issues with her handling. She was just too tippy for us, particularly on the forest roads that we planned to drive frequently (she is a 4x4 after all). After much debating we decided that she was never going to be the overlanding vehicle we had hoped she would be. We had poured so much of our time, money, love and energy into this vehicle and it was heart breaking to give up on her but at some point you just have to call it. That's what we did. We put her up for sale and she went quickly to her new home. We were completely transparent when selling her so that the new owners knew that we felt she still had work to be done. 

Now that some time has passed we've had a chance to get over the process and all the feelings associated with it. We can look back and be proud of what we accomplished even if it did take WAY longer than we wanted it to. We learned SO much and were introduced to a fantastic community of people.

Since then we bought a used Tacoma, built a bed platform and storage in the bed (over a weekend) and set off for 6 months exploring the Northeast and Canada. It was the best summer of our lives and in some weird way we can thank this whole process and our dear 4x4 Sunrader, Amelia for leading us there. It's my mission to get this thread completed so that the information is up here. All of this has already been written up on our blog and recently I finished editing a full video series on the entire build as well. 

You guys did a great job on the build and documenting it. I personally would have had to keep the bathroom, but that's me. Good luck on your adventures!

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Okay so back to it. I'll pick up with work on the upper cabinets. We decided to model these after the original design but opted to have them open upwards and have hydraulic arms hold them in place so we wouldn't be forced to hold them up with one hand. We also changed the design a bit because on the driver side we extended them all the way to the bed. We were able to do this because we eliminated the bathroom. That's right. No bathroom. We're young-ish and have been living on the road without a bathroom for a while now so we decided the storage was more important to us. Inside the cabinets we wired in LED light strips to illuminate the interior of the cabinets. 

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Next up was the back wall. We started by adding in some "studs" and then insulating with thinsulate. Then we cut out a piece of plywood, painted it (several coats), and finally installed. 

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As we breezed right through making everything look easy (completely the opposite) we moved on to the back seats. We drew up a plan and then started construction. 

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Back to the top cabinets! We moved into installing the doors and button latches. The doors are attached to the cabinet frame with piano hinges. The button latches ensure that they don't open up while we're driving. 

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Once everything was put together it was time to install them! 

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Don't worry we insulate that wall in the back of the cabinets (still to come). Back to the back seats. For these we also used piano hinges and hydraulic arms to hold them up. This made it way easier to access the storage underneath them. We added finger holes so that they could be easily lifted and painted them white. We also took this time to drill pilot holes for some of electrical pieces that would be mounted on the inside of them. 

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Then we switched our attention to our outdoor kitchen setup. The plan was for one of the exterior boxes to have a camp stove on some heavy duty sliders and somehow it all worked out as we planned (woohoo!). 

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Then we took some time to celebrate these small steps that would eventually lead us to our goal. 

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First up in this installment is insulating the floors and adding in our new cork floors. 

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After the floors were in, we went to work on the rest of the walls in the back half of the camper. This was done in the same way as the back wall, so we added studs, insulation, cut the wall piece out, painted, and then installed.

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Next up: Working on the propane system. This began with installing a new regulator since we dropped down to one propane tank. When we installed the new regulator the old propane tank wouldn't fit (doh!). We decided it was about time to upgrade the tank anyway. Initially we went to West Marine and bought a tank that would fit but soon realized that it wasn't meant to lay on it's side so we returned that one and ended up ordering one online that was specifically for laying horizontally ($$$). Unfortunately, we don't have pictures of the new tank until the whole thing is done so you'll have to wait on those for now. Once all that was figured out we were able to install the box that would house the propane. 

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Moving back inside, work commenced on the passenger side lower cabinets. This would be home to our stove top, sink, trash, and more storage. 

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Also inside, I began some work on the electrical system. A little bit of planning goes a long way with this stuff and I did a LOT of planning. I also used this time to wire some lights that would illuminate the counter tops. 

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Lastly for this post, MAK sewed up some insulated covers for the insides of the upper cabinets. She used a thick quilted fabric as well as more thinsulate. It was then adhered to the wall with velcro so that we could remove them to access wiring if we ever needed to. 

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Starting this one off with some work not done by us. Since we created a permanent bed structure we had some exposed plywood hanging out right over our heads. That wasn't going to cut it so we took the car to a professional upholsterer to take care of that and the wall at the front windows. Added bonus was that inside the cab the new fabric would allow us to stick our patch collection to it. We also installed the front wall panels on either side of the bed.

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Back to the kitchen. MAK finished the countertop with some poly and it looked fantastic. We installed the frame into the camper and started the final assembly.

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I continued to work on the electrical system by installing the components inside the back seat and doing some of the connecting. I also replaced both starter battery terminals as they were badly corroded and I suspected it was the cause of some weak starting. 

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With our slightly altered design of the back seats we also needed some new cushions. We got some foam from Amazon and then cut them to the right size. Then we sent them off to an upholsterer to get a fresh new look. 

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On to wheels and tires! Picked up some new 15" wheels and some beefier tires. We opted to go with 15"s to make things as easy on the engine as possible. In hindsight, maybe the 16"s would have been better because there are more options for heavier duty tires. 

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The next task was painting some of the accessories black. That included the sideview mirrors (seen above), and the table leg holder. 

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Next was a random smattering of smaller projects. This included finishing the back seats, adding a backsplash to the kitchen, making a paper towel holder, installing the hydraulic arms for the cabinets, and getting a mattress. 

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We also focused on adding some trim work around the camper.

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Before diving into the drawers, we make some small bookshelves for the back wall. 

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Then it was all hands on deck for getting the drawers for the lower cabinets done. At this time we also installed the faucet. The fridge got 150lb over travel sliders. That way it could come all the way out of its space so that it would be easier to open it. 

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That was a big job. There were lots of little details in everything. It was a huge relief to finally have those in. During that whole process MAK also finished the back table and we installed our water tank.

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After the water tank was installed I set out to get the water pump in. 

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Success! 

MAK being the artist that she is, was tasked with painting the curtains. She had done research online and found a way to add what's called a "resist" to the fabric so that she could achieve perfect stripes but also have a hand painted feel.

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With the curtains done, things were really coming together. Next we moved into finishing off the drawers by adding faces to the front with latches to lock them into place. 

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MAK and her father finished up the driver side counter.

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I ran the propane line to our stove from the regulator.

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We then worked on adding new sensors to our grey water tank, sensors to our new fresh water tank, and installing a panel to keep track of them. This panel also is the home of the power switch for the water pump. 

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At this point we had a few areas of exposed fiberglass on the interior still. We had been dreading tackling these areas as they weren't super straight forward. Eventually we powered through with a lot of help from MAK's father. 

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After the finishing work was done on those bits of the ceiling we moved into the home stretch. We added a pelican storage box on top, some sand ladders below, another bookshelf, and a housing for USB outlets.

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Last but not least, we had some decals made to rep the 4x4 and our blog. 

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For those interested in nerding out over the electrical system, I wrote an in depth post about it. It covers everything from solar panel to battery monitor. 

http://www.boundfornowhere.com/blog2/2018/its-electric

I also cover a lot of the same stuff in video format here:

 

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You can also see the whole build in video format at our youtube channel. Here's a link to the whole playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLp6o3lmSj5tQ5XS7u64OTcH2gR1RCjxa1

 

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Now on to the final reveal! As I said up there, we're super proud of how it turned out (and frankly, that we finished it). It took way longer than we had hoped but good things take time. We'll start with the interior.

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Then on to the exterior!

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If you want to see more about it and hear MAK speak about the final product you can watch it here:

 

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So as you may or may not know, we did end up selling Amelia, our 4x4 Sunrader. It's a long story that begins with the infamous axle. We converted to the full float in order to have all the wheels keep the same bolt pattern so that we would only need to carry one spare. We also did this so that the gear ratio of the rear axle would be the same as the front for the sake of 4WD. When this swap happened things never quite felt right again. She was really tippy. We took her to a shop that specialized in suspensions for large vehicles and had new leaf springs, bushings, and shocks put in. They also said that adding a timbren could help as well. Once we got her back with the new suspension she was significantly better but it still wasn't what we were hoping for. After a lot of debate we ultimately decided that we would put her up for sale. It was not the ending we had hoped for but in the end we grew and learned so much from this that we have no regrets. Our final video on Amelia goes into this a little bit more.

 

If you guys have any more questions about the build PLEASE don't hesitate to ask. We are an open book and we really want to help as much as we possibly can. Thank you for following along through the process and hopefully we'll see you out on the road. 

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AMAZING build, i have an extensive background in cabinet making and carpentry (50 years), and i can tell you without a doubt, you attention to construction, and detail is top level. i followed your build and was constantly impressed with your dedication and innovative design ideas. thank you so much for sharing an incredible project. joe from dover.

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17 hours ago, hunkaman said:

AMAZING build, i have an extensive background in cabinet making and carpentry (50 years), and i can tell you without a doubt, you attention to construction, and detail is top level. i followed your build and was constantly impressed with your dedication and innovative design ideas. thank you so much for sharing an incredible project. joe from dover.

Thanks Joe! Really appreciate the kind words!

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Other than the handling problem, how did your other improvements function? Any suggested design changes on the power/water systems?

Did your suspension have anti-sway bars front and rear?

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Was completely remodeling a sunrader to live out of at the same time you were posting your initial videos. Was definitely lusting after that 4x4. 

Sucks when I heard you sold it after all that impressive work. My two cents, whatever it is worth in hindsight after you sold it, is that axle was just too narrow to be running single wheels on. Any improvements to the suspension would be a band aid fix. If the stance in the rear was about 6 inches wider on each side, it would have been manageable. I know you wanted matching lug patterns. But if you rocked duallys, all that would really be needed is a spare for the front. 

Even though you sold it,  I really appreciate you sharing your experience.

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58 minutes ago, WME said:

Other than the handling problem, how did your other improvements function? Any suggested design changes on the power/water systems?

Did your suspension have anti-sway bars front and rear?

Also second the question about the sway bar. That could have been a major factor.

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59 minutes ago, WME said:

Other than the handling problem, how did your other improvements function? Any suggested design changes on the power/water systems?

Did your suspension have anti-sway bars front and rear?

The power system was absolutely perfect. That is what I miss the most about it (although I could be a bit biased). We were never wanting for power and I LOVED that battery monitor and how could look at everything from my phone. Water was also good. The water pump we got was so much more quiet than the one the Sunrader came with. In hindsight I would have gotten a smaller water tank because the one we got barely fit in that space and it made running the water lines a little bit of a hassle. The extra breathing room would have been nice. 

52 minutes ago, gmg said:

Also second the question about the sway bar. That could have been a major factor.

We did have front and rear sway bars. 

54 minutes ago, gmg said:

Was completely remodeling a Sunrader to live out of at the same time you were posting your initial videos. Was definitely lusting after that 4x4. 

Sucks when I heard you sold it after all that impressive work. My two cents, whatever it is worth in hindsight after you sold it, is that axle was just too narrow to be running single wheels on. Any improvements to the suspension would be a band aid fix. If the stance in the rear was about 6 inches wider on each side, it would have been manageable. I know you wanted matching lug patterns. But if you rocked duallys, all that would really be needed is a spare for the front. 

Even though you sold it,  I really appreciate you sharing your experience.

In hindsight I would have stayed dually. The most important thing for us was changing the axle. We didn't want to put all this work in just for it to fail. I guess that would mean sourcing an old full float but I don't recall if the gear ratio is the same. We talked to a few people that managed this conversion to single wheel without the handling issues we experienced. So in an alternate hindsight universe I would have tried to drive it somewhere that might have some experience with that type of stuff. No one in Orlando had any idea what I was talking about. 

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If you went a dana or gm 14 bolt, swapping gear ratios to match would have been pretty easy. And these axles can be found every where for relatively cheap. Honestly after seeing that build, if you would have posted something on here about the handling, I would have done a swap for you in exchange for supplying me with parts and coffee. And that offer stands if Amelia ever finds her way back!

Edited by gmg
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Also, it's really not too difficult at all changing out gear ratios in an axle.  You can buy whatever ratio you need and have a shop do it for relatively cheap if you brought them just the pumpkin.  It is a shame you guys didn't reach out more to this website regarding the axle issue, many very experienced intelligent people here that love to help!  

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It's so cool that you took the time to finish up, do the pictures, the video, and dot the i's and cross all the t's,... for Amelia. She's rolling down the road out there somewhere.

I remember emailing Owen right after you guys bought her. We were going to meet up here in Ca and you guys were going to look at my build for ideas, but the timing didn't work out.

As far as most of the stuff/problems you shared about that shaped your difficult decision, I think I can truly say, "been there, done that", .....except for the selling, of course.

I remember sitting there looking at a 1/2 finished coach with all the seemingly impossible problems and thinking "I'm just too far in to stop now".  Being older and wiser now, after finishing, when people ask me what it takes, or how hard it is, I just say "If you can manage 2 engineering miracles a week, you'll do great". My build ended up costing about double what I thought the project would as well. The trap is, you just can't compromise after the work and material hit a certain level.

Hearing that the two of you (+ Dad) took 9 months,....wow, unreal. Seemed long for you, but I took 3 years. I can't imagine how you did it that fast and held the bar for money, time and quality.

So impressive.

Myself, I just remember saying "just please let me finish it, I'll settle for that" :rolleyes:.   Of course I didn't. (settle, I mean). There have been some handsome offers that were hard to pass, but I love my rig and she's done as right as I know how.

I do admit, I chuckled about the "death-grip" while driving an 18 foot, top-heavy, 5,500 lb, 9 1/2 foot high RV with hot brakes down a steep winding road. The handling on a stock 4x4 Rader can only be improved so much... I have been known to utter some very impressive expletives and make a face or two myself at the wheel of my own 4x4.

For the record, I absolutely understand your decision based on your criteria.    

No need to mention here the 2 best days in the life of an RV owner...  :)

And,I know what you mean about learning from the project.

Best of luck to both of you, btw, great new rig.

Maybe we'll meet on the road some day. We can have some cocoa and you guys can see how I addressed some of the same challenges you two tackled.

BR,

TG

PS Can't help but wonder what Dad's working on now that he's got his garage back.

 

Edited by ToyoGuy
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On 1/31/2019 at 12:10 PM, gmg said:

If you went a dana or gm 14 bolt, swapping gear ratios to match would have been pretty easy. And these axles can be found every where for relatively cheap. Honestly after seeing that build, if you would have posted something on here about the handling, I would have done a swap for you in exchange for supplying me with parts and coffee. And that offer stands if Amelia ever finds her way back!

Thanks a ton for the offer and what a deal! All this axle stuff is way over my head and it still very much is.

On 1/31/2019 at 12:18 PM, Odyssey 4x4 said:

Also, it's really not too difficult at all changing out gear ratios in an axle.  You can buy whatever ratio you need and have a shop do it for relatively cheap if you brought them just the pumpkin.  It is a shame you guys didn't reach out more to this website regarding the axle issue, many very experienced intelligent people here that love to help!  

Seeing the helpful responses here I can’t help but wonder “what if”. I’m glad to know that there are more options out their for people rebuilding than we originally thought. All this info is super useful and I think I’ll be passing it on to the new owners too. They bought it knowing there was work to do on the handling and all this could be immensely helpful.

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7 hours ago, ToyoGuy said:

It's so cool that you took the time to finish up, do the pictures, the video, and dot the i's and cross all the t's,... for Amelia. She's rolling down the road out there somewhere.

I remember emailing Owen right after you guys bought her. We were going to meet up here in Ca and you guys were going to look at my build for ideas, but the timing didn't work out.

As far as most of the stuff/problems you shared about that shaped your difficult decision, I think I can truly say, "been there, done that", .....except for the selling, of course.

I remember sitting there looking at a 1/2 finished coach with all the seemingly impossible problems and thinking "I'm just too far in to stop now".  Being older and wiser now, after finishing, when people ask me what it takes, or how hard it is, I just say "If you can manage 2 engineering miracles a week, you'll do great". My build ended up costing about double what I thought the project would as well. The trap is, you just can't compromise after the work and material hit a certain level.

Hearing that the two of you (+ Dad) took 9 months,....wow, unreal. Seemed long for you, but I took 3 years. I can't imagine how you did it that fast and held the bar for money, time and quality.

So impressive.

Myself, I just remember saying "just please let me finish it, I'll settle for that" :rolleyes:.   Of course I didn't. (settle, I mean). There have been some handsome offers that were hard to pass, but I love my rig and she's done as right as I know how.

I do admit, I chuckled about the "death-grip" while driving an 18 foot, top-heavy, 5,500 lb, 9 1/2 foot high RV with hot brakes down a steep winding road. The handling on a stock 4x4 Rader can only be improved so much... I have been known to utter some very impressive expletives and make a face or two myself at the wheel of my own 4x4.

For the record, I absolutely understand your decision based on your criteria.    

No need to mention here the 2 best days in the life of an RV owner...  :)

And,I know what you mean about learning from the project.

Best of luck to both of you, btw, great new rig, (oh how I lust after fuel injection and a bit more hp these days !)

Maybe we'll meet on the road some day. We can have some cocoa and you guys can see how I addressed some of the same challenges you two tackled.

BR,

TG

PS Can't help but wonder what Dad's working on now that he's got his garage back.

 

I would love that! It was a definite bummer we couldn’t meet up back then. We’ll be up in your neck of the woods this spring so hopefully we can make that happen and we’ll have our new home on wheels too! The taco was a way for us to get back on the road while we looked for a more permanent solution. It was amazing and we truly love that truck.

MAK worked on it almost full time for those 9 months which was the main reason we aren’t STILL working on it. 

As for MAK’s dad (ha, glad you asked. Unsung hero), he’s been keeping busy in the shop making cutting boards and knives. They also bought a new boat and he’s been able to dive deep into his passion for fishing with all this new free time.

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  • 1 month later...

Came back to check in on this and was like  cool cool cool whaaaaAAAAAT!!!!?

all that $ spent sweatquity on interior then gave up on suspension and sold? Oh man. NOw im gonna gut my interior and do it proper... i started on my dually axle and suspension early on everything is aces in its handling..Mine rides great new motor, sway bars, air bags, shocks  etc, but i want to gut and refloor plan like you guys did. We moved recently and in first year at new location mice devestated the interior- even ate the headliner.

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  • 9 months later...
11 hours ago, sealion said:

What paint did y'all use for the body? What about the fenders and ladder?

 

We used Pettit EZPoxy paint and primer for the body and Raptor Liner for the fenders and ladder. Details on the process and links to products can be found on our blog. 

Links to paint and primer can be found at the bottom of this post that details our painting process:

https://www.boundfornowhere.com/blog2/2017/build-out-week-8-9

Links to Raptor Liner and details on the process can be found in this post:

https://www.boundfornowhere.com/blog2/2018/build-out-week-10

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  • 1 month later...

One thing I keep meaning to ask and forgetting to...Did you guys weigh the sunrader before and after alterations.

I am super curious on that as it would seem you added a LOT of things to it that were not light weight and thereby probably contributing to both the wheel failure "bad things" as well as the stability issues that ultimately ended up in its forced sale.

The lack of dual wheels for sure did not help with the stability either; I often see people muse in here on just getting rid of the dual wheels in favor of one and to me the physics of that present a risk that was probably exacerbated by the additional weight.

 

I could be wrong though on weight - because you also removed EVERYTHING original - so did you guys post weights before and after by chance?

 

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