gmg Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I am going to be potentially picking up a 79 sunrader this weekend. Have to travel 12 hours to see it and have been talking to the owner over phone and text. All the pictures seem to check out from what he has been telling me but there is one thing I am stumped on. The cab roof/ support member on the drivers side where the edge of the windshield meets, there is a crack in the main support. The owner has welded it up and it looks like it has opened up again. Trying to get some ideas about what is causing this. Was thinking it may be from the weight of the over cab portion but there is no breaks in the camper shell and appears solid. Also it does not seem to be moving much as the windshield and door have not been effected. Open to any suggestions and if this should be a deal breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonny sunrader Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Shouldn't be a deal breaker, any body shop could easily fix this problem, but there should a reduction in price for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmg Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 It would just so happen that right after I post this, I finally found another post on this forum that had a similar problem, just not to the extent of this sunrader. I believe that floor of the over cab bunk area became delaminated and now the weight of the bed and whoever is sleeping up there is resting on the cab. I will just need to repair the floor which should not be too difficult and that would solve the underlying issue. Still open to any additional input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I would cast a very critical eye on the truck frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I've seen this a few times. Usually caused by the weight of the shell because the main floor has deteriorated and the full weight is pushing down on the cab. Not just a problem with the overhead. Can be a very difficult fix Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmg Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 I think you might be right about the floor of the shell. My guess is it has become delaminated or partially rotted on the front part of the shell which is causing the over cab potion to press down on the frame. Is there a way to put a piece of channel steel the width of the shell, resting on the frame to support the front part of the shell? I would like to avoid having to completely tear out the interior to rebuild the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Rebuilding the floor on a Sunrader is harder than it seems. The floor is fiberglassed to the shell under pressure and installed on the camper in one piece. Yes I know of one person who had this problem and he managed to get a steel beam under the floor to support it but don't know how he did it without making holes in the side wall of the shell. Shell walls come down below floor level. I guess you could just fiberglass over the holes you make. Yeah that might work. Or not. If the floor is separating from the shell supporting the floor isn't going to help. Shell is still pressing down. No ideas Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmg Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 Being this is only on one side of the cab and that the shell alone probably does not weigh very much (and probably not enough to be cracking those supports), I am hoping that the floor is not separated from the outer shell. That side seems to me to be carrying more weight on the floor, to where if the floor became delaminated and is now sinking down on that outer edge, that is could put enough force on those members (and explains why it is happening on only one side and not the other side). I found some examples of people reinforcing the floor so I know it is doable. Honestly this sunrader is being let go of for very cheap compared to what I have seen them going for recently and this appears to be the only big issue. I have fallen in love with these things and would love nothing more than to keep this one stock and just return it to its full glory. Thank you for all your input linda s, I really appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAatTheCape Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Unless YOU like WORKING ON A MAJOR project, I would walk (RUN!) away. That crack is a BIG warning sign and should be a HUGE red flag waving at you. I see no mention of checking the frame underneath. If the chassis has significant rust or shows any signs of distortion - it is TOTALED (IMO) Rebuilding the cabover is BIG job! BTW, my guess is that cabover weighs more then one might guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmg Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 I ended up getting it. The frame, engine, powertrain, suspension and fiberglass shell are all solid! What happened is in the early years, they made the floor (listed from the bottom to the top) with an aluminum sheet, foam, plywood (compared to later years being aluminum, plywood, foam, plywood). Effectively, the one piece of plywood was the foundation which is clearly a poor design and honestly I would not be surprised if many of the early sunraders have fallen apart and gotten junked by now. On top of this, two owners ago put in a ride right air suspension and a heavy generac generator. The previous two owners liked driving around with the suspension very stiff (since it handled better) and the floor became the suspension for the shell and that heavy generator. The floor is now sagging badly in the rear, especially on the drivers side where the generator is and that is causing the cab to be pulled up by the overcab portion of the shell. The shell floor at the front is actually in pretty good shape and is kind of acting as the fulcrum point. Luckily I got a hold of it when I did because another couple years (or less) it would have completely fallen apart and the world would have one less sunrader! I will effectively be rebuilding the floor, reinforcing the shell-to-floor attachment with fiberglass and adding additional floor supports. I will post pictures of the floor and will document here how I fix it in the coming weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmg Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Here are some pictures after taking out the kitchen, dinette, closet and everything else on the floor except for the bathroom. You can see the back is slumped pretty badly and the floor has separated. I am blown away how they built the floor and surprised it lasted this long. There is a seam in the wood just in front of the only side to side support and they simply had staples and small wood strips reinforcing the joint. At the very least, tongue and groove should have been used. I am also guessing whoever did the axle upgrade cut a large piece of the floor between the wheel wells which probably caused a lot of the slumping at the wheel wells. What really blew me away was the amount of band-aid repairs done to this thing, for instance spray foaming all of the cracks that opened up and behind all of the cabinets to try to sure them up with all the slumping. This ended up being a pain to undue. On a good note, amazingly there is almost no rot, only a small section (the size of my hand) under the hot water heater. I have everything removed and the shell is now free from the chassis. I will be jacking up the shell this weekend and my course of action to fix the floor is: -After shell is jacked up, place one piece of channel steel from side to side just behind the wheel wells over the old support that only goes between the frame rails. -Going to get 3/4" pressure treated plywood and join three pieces using full length splines (think biscuit joints except continuous) and glue. I will then glue down half inch rigid foam insulation on top. -New wood/foam floor reinforcement will be placed on the chassis in one piece -Shell with old floor and foam (I will rip out the aluminum bottom sheet) will be lowered down to the new reinforced floor. -New floor will cause the entire shell to ride an inch or so higher, so I will put in body spacers to raise the front cab up the same height so there is no gap between the shell and the cab -Shell will be reattached to the chassis/cab and the old floor will be sealed with penetrating epoxy. All said and done, I do not think I will EVER have to worry about that floor sagging again and can build and repair the rest of the sunrader without fear of the floor falling out and ruining it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmg Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) Shell was jacked up and new floor was put in underneath the old floor. In addition two new supports were added including one along the front of the shell where no supports existed. In addition, chassis was painted with por15 to seal out the rust and make things pretty. Also note there is now about 1.75" gap between cab and shell. Cab body will be getting a 1.25" body lift and extra 1/2" will persist to allow some amount of independent movement between shell and cab. Didn't show all steps but have pictures of most everything so let me know if you have any questions at all. Edited March 23, 2018 by gmg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 You have way to time on your hands This is a VERY important post for all Sunrader owners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Now's the time to make a trap door in the floor so you can service the fuel pump without dropping the tank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 that frame is so clean i can eat off it. A+ excellent work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmg Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 This was about 6 days of work including all deconstruction. I feel this is the only proper way to reinforce the floor, short of completely cutting out the old floor and fiberglassing in a new floor (more work than I am willing to do right now). I hope others see it is possible to really reinforce this floor. This approach would also be possible without fully gutting the interior. The old floor will have all holes and rotted portions repaired with new wood then soaked in penetrating epoxy. Pictures will be posted of that as well. Hopefully by next weekend I will finally be rebuilding the interior (aka the fun stuff!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmg Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Derek up North said: Now's the time to make a trap door in the floor so you can service the fuel pump without dropping the tank! Definitely thought about it but opted not too. Main reason is this sunrader will be getting a mercedes om617 turbodiesel in the next year (part of the reason it is getting a body lift now to make room) and will require the fuel pump to be removed. But that is for another discussion. Edited March 24, 2018 by gmg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 A MBZ turbo diesel install is going to be a very popular post. Swedish Diesel porn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cIl-F7PqPA 200hp with turbo change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmg Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 On 3/24/2018 at 10:18 AM, WME said: A MBZ turbo diesel install is going to be a very popular post. Swedish Diesel porn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cIl-F7PqPA 200hp with turbo change Stay tuned for a new forum in the coming weeks. I nearly bought a 1982 mercedes 300sd. However, after lots of measuring I realized it was not going to fit in the gen 2 hilux my sunrader is built on (these are a bit smaller than the 80s pickups most sunraders are built on). I am now closing in on an early 2000's VW alh tdi for a swap. I am shooting for a legit 30+ mpg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Sounds like something we would like. Can't be sure but looks like the TDI engine is way lighter than the Toyota L2 and more horsepower. Wonder why more people haven't done it Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 6 hours ago, linda s said: Wonder why more people haven't done it VW into a motorhome? I don't think most typical owners are very adventurous that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 OMG I want one. If it can pull that his Sunrader will fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 On 4/28/2018 at 4:49 PM, gmg said: Stay tuned for a new forum in the coming weeks. I nearly bought a 1982 mercedes 300sd. However, after lots of measuring I realized it was not going to fit in the gen 2 hilux my sunrader is built on (these are a bit smaller than the 80s pickups most sunraders are built on). I am now closing in on an early 2000's VW alh tdi for a swap. I am shooting for a legit 30+ mpg! om606 from the 1998-99 series would be awesome power and a chain that has been recorded to go well past 800,000 kilometers in Germany. but most importantly its setup already to run RWD and is a inline 6... no messing with belts and pumps every 60-80k etc. There wont be any chain issues on THAT motor, of that I guarantee. Mine is well over 300,000 miles on it original. ALH is interference motor...lose belt grenade over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Dobbs Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 5 hours ago, Totem said: om606 from the 1998-99 series would be awesome power and a chain that has been recorded to go well past 800,000 kilometers in Germany. but most importantly its setup already to run RWD and is a inline 6... no messing with belts and pumps every 60-80k etc. There wont be any chain issues on THAT motor, of that I guarantee. Mine is well over 300,000 miles on it original. ALH is interference motor...lose belt grenade over. How similar is that engine to the OM602? I have that engine in my Sprinter, and while there is a lot to love, it would be far from my first choice in engine for a Toyota based motorhome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) Well is a 5 cylindersimlar to a 6? To me not at all. Om602 was known for problems which is partially why the new ones have 6’s as in 6 cylinders. I forget which cylinder would go bad and lose compression on the 602 but one of them would. Known for cracked heads the 602 also Edited May 1, 2018 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Dobbs Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Quote Well is a 5 cylindersimlar to a 6? It's really a case by case basis. Having a different number of cylinders doesn't exclude the possibility of a high degree of relation. Take the GM Atlas engines for example. The I6 and I5's are remarkably similar. Quote Om602 was known for problems which is partially why the new ones have 6’s as in 6 cylinders. I forget which cylinder would go bad and lose compression on the 602 but one of them would. Known for cracked heads the 602 also Ah, I had my engines mixed up, I was thinking of the OM647, which I believe is a complete unrelated engine. They're known to routinely last until 500k, but they can be a real headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmg Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) On 5/1/2018 at 8:22 AM, Totem said: om606 from the 1998-99 series would be awesome power and a chain that has been recorded to go well past 800,000 kilometers in Germany. but most importantly its setup already to run RWD and is a inline 6... no messing with belts and pumps every 60-80k etc. There wont be any chain issues on THAT motor, of that I guarantee. Mine is well over 300,000 miles on it original. ALH is interference motor...lose belt grenade over. I looked at 617 and all the 60x but the major problem being I had no room for one. My sunrader is on the gen 2 hilux (72-78) which is a bit smaller than the gen 3 (79-88ish). I found it would be impossible to get any of these engines in without hacking my poor sunrader to bits. Let me tell you, I did not take this decision lightly. I researched hours a day for months weighing all of my options and even some less traditional and crazy ones (aka boat motors). The tdi turned out to be the clear winner for me. Yes the tdi has the belt which I despise. However I am going to do motor mounts on the sides of the engine, typical of a longitudinal engine rather than a front mount that is standard in a transverse engine which the tdi has. This is critical because this will make changing the timing belt simple and less than an hour job. This will make replacing the timing belt every 50k miles no big deal and something I will do along with my typical 50k maintenance or every 9th or 10th oil change. I already have the tdi and the old engine is coming out this weekend. I have started another thread so let's start trying to migrate these conversations over there. http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?/topic/10698-sunrader-tdi-swap/ Edited May 10, 2018 by gmg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.