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"Doh!" a la Homer Simpson.  :blink:

Mystery One: The DAY that my sailboat and home of ten years is sold, and I am free to hit the road... My 87 Dolphin decides to quit use of 2 cylinders.  But hooray for Progressive Towing and for my trusty Oxnard mechanic. 

Upon cursory end of afternoon inspection yesterday - so far we've got:  good compression, good spark all the way back to rotor, running rich and spark plugs moist with fuel, no detectable vacuum leaks, and... nada. 

Behavior at present:  Hard starts, violent shuddering low idle, cranky noise upon start coming from under hood right side, stall out in reverse, rough run over all.

Today, Friday 22nd, we are starting with fresh gasoline, new spark plugs, and looking for more clues.  Any recognition of these signs from anyone?

Mystery Two:  Differential leak into the right rear tires - intermittent - sometimes a lot (when we replaced the air bags back there and disturbed it) and sometimes a drip or not at all.  The pressure button does not appear to be plugged or impeded at all.  I suspect that replacing the brake on that side might be in order, but how best to find the leak?

Mystery Three:  When leaning heavily on one side in a turn (even slowly) there's a popping or air release noise that doesn't sound good.  Mostly I've heard it from the front, distinctly left or right, not in center.  Reminds me of when you pop a shipping air bag pocket.

Thanks for any thoughts on this...

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Lets start with the easy ones first.

#2 You probably have a blown rear seal in the axle. The toys are a bit odd in that the rear axle has packed rear bearings, not splashed lube like most.

There 2 seals per side.. There several posts in this section.  http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?/topic/10241-help-with-axle-sealbearing-and-brake-job/

# 3 Check the turn stops on each side. There is supposed to be a hard plastic cap on each one. With time they wear out. A dab of grease each oil change should fix the problem.

Engine is just checking everything. Starting with what you have done then the TPS, fuel pressure. Last and biggest is the computer. good luck

 

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I suspect the injector resistor block for your misfire/rough running. In side the block are two resistors if one resistor fails two fuel injectors will not work the other two will. It can be check with a simple test light or if your shop has a noid light right at the injectors.

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Re: #3 mystery, already did the grease dabs.  That was sort of a screeching scream noise.  No plastic caps for a long while methinks.  This new noise is the exhalation of short Toy Fart.  Not a backfire, that's explosive.  This is a more comical and yet disturbing noise.

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4 hours ago, Cynxing said:

The new plugs did zippo, as predicted.  We listened with a stethascope and all four injectors are clicking. 

 

What is the fuel pressure? No guess just the facts. Clicking can be transmitted down the fuel rail mind you they fire twice per cycle.

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Will check fuel pressure (real number) tomorrow.  Went ahead and pulled out the injectors.  Three were clogged.  8:30 tomorrow the new ones arrive along with the new fuel filter. 

I would be scolding myself for not having done this sooner, but in the 2 months of owning this thing I have not had the money to do everything. 

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13 hours ago, Cynxing said:

Will check fuel pressure (real number) tomorrow.  Went ahead and pulled out the injectors.  Three were clogged.  8:30 tomorrow the new ones arrive along with the new fuel filter. 

I would be scolding myself for not having done this sooner, but in the 2 months of owning this thing I have not had the money to do everything. 

If they were clogged how come the plugs were wet? The performance would fall off slowly as they got worse the spray pattern is very important. If indeed the injectors are plugged more than likely the fuel filter has never been changed Toyota did a bank up job of hiding them. 

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Ok, now there is a new fuel filter and 4 new injectors installed.  The engine started right up (after the fuel reached the essential spots) and idled smooth.  But when the engine warmed up the accelerator went to the floor but the speed did not change.  The accelerator linkage does move correctly so I don't think that's it. What else should we check?

IMG_8755.JPG

Edited by Cynxing
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UMMM that engine is missing a bunch of parts, how about a pic of the engine as you were trying to run it.

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Yeah yeah yeah.  We are now assuming we have a clogged TPS.  Here is the pic of the put together engine.  J is pointing at a thingy we don't know what it does. Begging to be turned.  Not the idle adjuster. 

IMG_8758.JPG

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UMMM again :clown2:  Do you have a check engine light on? Do you have the CE codes and do you know how to trigger the codes?? IS the large black nose over the top of the radiator hooked up at both ends? Remove the AFM from the air cleaner and make sure the flipper vane moves easily

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Air Flow Meter (AFM) The lump on top of the air filter.  https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DfHquaQizt0/maxresdefault.jpg

Photo of vane https://dudazps6njn84.cloudfront.net/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/VssAAOSwgv5ZTJir/$_57.JPG?set_id=8800005007

The vane pivots and is held closed by a VERY weak spring, you should be able push it with your finger. As you open the throttle the air moves the vane to tell the computer how much fuel. If the plastic cross over pipe isnt connected the computer just thinks the engine is idling

Goggle toyota 22re AFM adustment

The Idiot book doesn't have stuff on the RE engine

The white thingie looks like a deceleration gulp valve DON'T MESS WITH IT.

Edited by WME
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14 hours ago, Cynxing said:

Yeah yeah yeah.  We are now assuming we have a clogged TPS.  Here is the pic of the put together engine.  J is pointing at a thingy we don't know what it does. Begging to be turned.  Not the idle adjuster. 

IMG_8758.JPG

Idle kick for the power steering.

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Update:  After spending three nights in the RV inside the shop, I was getting jumpy.  I bolted for my rendezvous at a campsite in the Sierras with a friend.  I left the TPS unplugged for the 6 hour drive.  Except for the threat of overheating at 4144 ft ( radiator is next on the list), Dolphin did ok.  Note this is a temporary solution. It is still fluttery at idle.  Hiccups.  

I have been scouring this resource: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml for what looks like a common 22RE problem.  I have been also reading whatever I find to mechanic J, who may, or may not act on the info. 

I am keen to practice pulling the computer codes and explore the AFM.  There's a teeny print chart in one of the books that claims to be the code translation.  When I return to Oxnard Jan. 6th or so we will continue with the TPS, gas tank cleaning (suspected sludge), and radiator. 

While keeping one eye out for bears, I'm chasing down the loss of brake lights. Bulbs already changed, wires inspected. Thank you for watching my posts and for your help.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update:  I made it to Lake Havasu AZ and am contemplating Quartzsite.

But at the moment I am getting my radiator rodded.  One thing at a time and I was needing to be wary of the overheating issue.

The TPS is still disconnected.  The radiator guy said, uh, is there a reason this is disconnected?  Yup.

That and the 99.9% chance of sludge in the gas tank (hard to find someone who wants to clean the tank) are my to do list while I creep East.

IMG_8859.JPG

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On 12/23/2017 at 7:14 PM, WME said:

Air Flow Meter (AFM) The lump on top of the air filter.  https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DfHquaQizt0/maxresdefault.jpg

Photo of vane https://dudazps6njn84.cloudfront.net/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/VssAAOSwgv5ZTJir/$_57.JPG?set_id=8800005007

The vane pivots and is held closed by a VERY weak spring, you should be able push it with your finger. As you open the throttle the air moves the vane to tell the computer how much fuel. If the plastic cross over pipe isnt connected the computer just thinks the engine is idling

Goggle toyota 22re AFM adustment

The Idiot book doesn't have stuff on the RE engine

The white thingie looks like a deceleration gulp valve DON'T MESS WITH IT.

While the radiator guy has the air hoses off I poked the reverse side of the AFM and the spring appears to be appropriately weak but working.  What I wonder is should it close completely when done?  See in the pick there's a gap in the side...?  This view is looking in from the hose side.  I didn't want to rattle the radiator guy buy removing other parts while he was working.

 

IMG_8862.JPG

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There is a round aluminum plug over an adjustment screw that will effect your AF mix some what and probably will not produce dramatic results. The black cover hides the spring that governs the gate's tension messing with that with out having some thing to read AF ratios is not a good ideal a little bit goes a long way.  

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I did read about the AF mix adjuster.  I decided not to mess with it.  I had all day to stare at the taken apart engine while the radiator got spa treatment.  And then, just before making my escape, the heater control leaked during the pressure test.  Can't get another one in until Wednesday, so it looks like two nights in lovely Lake Havasu. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/23/2017 at 8:35 PM, WME said:

UMMM again :clown2:  Do you have a check engine light on? Do you have the CE codes and do you know how to trigger the codes?? IS the large black nose over the top of the radiator hooked up at both ends? Remove the AFM from the air cleaner and make sure the flipper vane moves easily

More info on this: 

Still no check engine light.  I have a list of the CE codes but do not know how to trigger them.  Saw a youtube video using a jumper on the fusebox but mine doesn't look like that.  I'm just sitting out here in the desert and could check for codes if I knew how.  Will keep googling, but could use help on that. 

And regarding the radiator, it was just rodded and put back all shiny and painted, so yes, hooked up both ends.  And while the radiator was out I checked the AFM vane and it moves well.

Current condition:  returning back to sluggish behavior as if it's not firing on all 4.  First it started hiccuping randomly.  Then it didn't want to idle smooth.  Tried to siphon some bottom of tank gas out to check for gunk, but couldn't get siphon probe down into tank itself.  Wanted to take a look at the spark plugs but genius here got the wrong size spark plug socket.  Hoping to borrow one from a Toy Home person nearby.

EFI plug still unplugged.  15 amp fuse for EFI is in place and is good. 

Close enough to town that I could get a tow if needed to a (non dealer) Toyota shop I have identified.  But of course my finances dictate that I try to solve it myself (with forum input) first, if possible.  Thanks for any thoughts on this.

 

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There's a picture with a faint green circle around the thing you need to jump on the fender wall on the drivers side. Round thing to the left in picture on the left. Pull it out of the holder it's in and jump the two connecters on it with a wire or hairpin with the engine switch in the on position then continue with the instructions here

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TroubleCodes/

Don't think it can work properly with the TPS disconnected though. Maybe the guys know

Linda S

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Ok, I think I can bring this thread to a close finally.   I'll try to be succinct.

Solution to the rough running - low power - not on all cylinders = one of four injectors installed last month turned out to be faulty.  Failed atomizer test.  Returning for refund. New one installed.

Solution to the TPS situation - adjustment - throttle / stop screw gap = The TPS was installed incorrectly and was holding the throttle open so it could not idle without sounding hysterical.  Non-intuitive installation.  Slots in rotor in TPS look like they should line up with throttle pins.  Au contraire.  It's possible to either install so that the rotor moves the throttle, or the throttle moves the rotor.  The latter is most successful - could not find anything written about that.  Last mechanic said he "adjusted to factory specs" but did not elaborate on what that meant.  Lined up the paint spots?

Noted the absence of the Dash Pot.  Will look into replacing this for inspection purposes before spring.  Saw the pro and con comments about the DP usefulness.

Solution to gunky fuel filter - one month old and already full of rust = fuel tank cleaned.  Something I wanted to do from the get go but couldn't find anyone who wanted to tackle that job.  My attempt to siphon out a sample from the bottom was thwarted.  Could not get my siphon hose down into the tank.

Test Results:  Compression - 150, 160, 170, 150 respectively
FUEL PRESSURE:  ( Maineah this for you ) 30, resting at 35
Good to see how that test was done, and hence, what it was for.

Photos:  Plein Air Auto Repair spot and Inside the TPS

Thank you all for your thoughts and comments.  I will be trying out the computer jump so I know how to do it properly next time. 

IMG_8921.jpg

IMG_8920.jpg

Edited by Cynxing
typo
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On 1/19/2018 at 3:52 PM, Cynxing said:

More info on this: 

Still no check engine light.  I have a list of the CE codes but do not know how to trigger them.  Saw a youtube video using a jumper on the fusebox but mine doesn't look like that.  I'm just sitting out here in the desert and could check for codes if I knew how.  Will keep googling, but could use help on that. 

And regarding the radiator, it was just rodded and put back all shiny and painted, so yes, hooked up both ends.  And while the radiator was out I checked the AFM vane and it moves well.

Current condition:  returning back to sluggish behavior as if it's not firing on all 4.  First it started hiccuping randomly.  Then it didn't want to idle smooth.  Tried to siphon some bottom of tank gas out to check for gunk, but couldn't get siphon probe down into tank itself.  Wanted to take a look at the spark plugs but genius here got the wrong size spark plug socket.  Hoping to borrow one from a Toy Home person nearby.

EFI plug still unplugged.  15 amp fuse for EFI is in place and is good. 

Close enough to town that I could get a tow if needed to a (non dealer) Toyota shop I have identified.  But of course my finances dictate that I try to solve it myself (with forum input) first, if possible.  Thanks for any thoughts on this.

 

The diagnostics pin outs are located in a small plastic box under the hood your 87 does have one it has a lid with a small hinge and it's about an inch or so square and maybe 2 tall. I believe it does say diagnostics on the cover it's the same box needed to properly set the timing. You will have to jumper pins TE1 and T1 paper clip works. There are plenty of on line charts with code interpretations. The ECM's have been know to go bad they will not throw a code I'm not suggesting you replace it until it has been thoroughly check out. I'm still thinking electrical injector issues of some nature possible ECM or resistor block.

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2 minutes ago, Maineah said:

The diagnostics pin outs are located in a small plastic box under the hood your 87 does have one it has a lid with a small hinge and it's about an inch or so square and maybe 2 tall. I believe it does say diagnostics on the cover it's the same box needed to properly set the timing. You will have to jumper pins TE1 and T1 paper clip works. There are plenty of on line charts with code interpretations. The ECM's have been know to go bad they will not throw a code I'm not suggesting you replace it until it has been thoroughly check out. I'm still thinking electrical injector issues of some nature possible ECM or resistor block.

Didn't see your post hope that fixes you issue. One more thing your fuel tank should have a drain plug on the bottom

Edited by Maineah
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Your photos show the mechanical side of the tps your problems, if tps related, are on the other side.

SO run codes as in the previous posts to at least give you an some idea about the health of your tps. This a DIY thing you don't need a mechanic.

Here is a how to clean the tps post https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/how-refresh-throttle-position-sensor-284807/

Here is buying a new one http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1987,pickup,2.4l+l4,1277502,fuel+&+air,throttle+position+sensor+(tps),5136 

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