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During my recent 3000 mile trip to Monument Valley and back I got to experience temperatures outside what I am used to. It averaged 95 to 115F daytime the entire trip. During this trip I attempted to do something I would normally find wasteful: I ran the Toyota A/C at idle. This was basically to keep my older dog cool while he and I waited in a store parking lot for my wife and daughter to shop. I do not have a generator as 99% of the time I do not need it -- but it would have been nice for sure.

After idling for about 20 minutes I glanced at the dash and noticed the temp indicator very close to the red. I also have an after-market gauge installed, and it was reading between 220 and 230F. The highest I normally see it get on the highway with A/C on is around 210 or a tiny bit higher. Average is probably 195 or 200. I turned off the engine and opened the hood to let it cool. It wasn't easy getting that hood open as it was uncomfortably hot.

It was probably 105 ambient with low humidity that day. I did not attempt to do this again.

My questions:

What is maximum safe operating temperature of the 3VZE? 

The PO installed a larger than normal engine cooling fan as well as the gauge. Is it normal for the engine to overheat in this situation? I don't recall hearing the loud sound of that fan spinning up to max. I have heard it crank up before while driving; but very rarely. Even when it's running quite hot. I wonder if whatever controls the fan needs adjustment.

What diagnostics should I do? I'd like the option of A/C at idle for traffic situations or the rare situation above. It's rarely above 65F where I live in SF; which may make experimentation tricky.

I wonder if this could be a similar situation to :

But since that thread is the 22R it doesn't seem applicable.

Thanks for any ideas. The trip was awesome despite the temperatures.

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26 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

Is the 'larger than normal' fan electric or belt driven?

Good question. I'll pop the hood, check it out, and take some pictures tomorrow afternoon.

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54 minutes ago, Mark Krueger said:

During my recent 3000 mile trip to Monument Valley and back I got to experience temperatures outside what I am used to. It averaged 95 to 115F daytime the entire trip. During this trip I attempted to do something I would normally find wasteful: I ran the Toyota A/C at idle. This was basically to keep my older dog cool while he and I waited in a store parking lot for my wife and daughter to shop. I do not have a generator as 99% of the time I do not need it -- but it would have been nice for sure.

After idling for about 20 minutes I glanced at the dash and noticed the temp indicator very close to the red. I also have an after-market gauge installed, and it was reading between 220 and 230F. The highest I normally see it get on the highway with A/C on is around 210 or a tiny bit higher. Average is probably 195 or 200. I turned off the engine and opened the hood to let it cool. It wasn't easy getting that hood open as it was uncomfortably hot.

It was probably 105 ambient with low humidity that day. I did not attempt to do this again.

My questions:

What is maximum safe operating temperature of the 3VZE? 

The PO installed a larger than normal engine cooling fan as well as the gauge. Is it normal for the engine to overheat in this situation? I don't recall hearing the loud sound of that fan spinning up to max. I have heard it crank up before while driving; but very rarely. Even when it's running quite hot. I wonder if whatever controls the fan needs adjustment.

What diagnostics should I do? I'd like the option of A/C at idle for traffic situations or the rare situation above. It's rarely above 65F where I live in SF; which may make experimentation tricky.

I wonder if this could be a similar situation to :

But since that thread is the 22R it doesn't seem applicable.

Thanks for any ideas. The trip was awesome despite the temperatures.

I just experienced same thing last weekend in my V-6.When Stopped temp gauge was almost getting to the red but within a mile or so of driving it would come back down.I was told to check my fan clutch,that if I could turn my fan by hand with engine off then fan clutch was bad,well I can turn it.Then I was told not to but aftermarket fan clutch,that mine can probably be fixed by adding new silicone oil,who knew? I was told to buy Toyota oil but that stuff is 30 bucks a bottle and it's supposed to take 2 bottles,so I bought this stuff off ebay instead:http://www.ebay.com/itm/KYOSIL6000-Kyosho-Silicone-Differential-Oil-40cc-6-000cst/401106424721?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

It has enough in it as 2 bottles of the Toyota oil.The toyota oil come in 3 kinds,3000,6000,and 10,000 cst,I was told to get the 6000.

Theres some youtube videos on how to do it,I'll probably attempt it this weekend.

 

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I have noticed  that mine "warms up" a bit in low speed high temp scenarios.   The AC condenser is in front of the radiator, and the tran cooler in front of all of that. I can see why it might not cool so well .

Might be interesting in such a situation to turn off AC for a bit & see if things "cool off" a bit (under the hood).  I tried it once and indeed with the AC off, the idle temp backed off some. 

My theory: if one is somewhere that hot they need to point that TOY "up" (father north and farther up in elevation)

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19 minutes ago, redskinman said:

I just experienced same thing last weekend in my V-6.When Stopped temp gauge was almost getting to the red but within a mile or so of driving it would come back down.I was told to check my fan clutch,that if I could turn my fan by hand with engine off then fan clutch was bad,well I can turn it.Then I was told not to but aftermarket fan clutch,that mine can probably be fixed by adding new silicone oil,who knew? I was told to buy Toyota oil but that stuff is 30 bucks a bottle and it's supposed to take 2 bottles,so I bought this stuff off ebay instead:http://www.ebay.com/itm/KYOSIL6000-Kyosho-Silicone-Differential-Oil-40cc-6-000cst/401106424721?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

It has enough in it as 2 bottles of the Toyota oil.The toyota oil come in 3 kinds,3000,6000,and 10,000 cst,I was told to get the 6000.

Theres some youtube videos on how to do it,I'll probably attempt it this weekend.

 

Interesting redskinman. Thanks for the info. Let me know how things go this weekend. I think this might be the video you are referring to:

 

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5 minutes ago, DanAatTheCape said:

My theory: if one is somewhere that hot they need to point that TOY "up" (father north and farther up in elevation)

LOL yes. 115F is too hot for humans or dogs. And it was over 120 not far south of us. One night when it had only cooled down to 95 at midnight -- and we were stuck in a spot with no electricity -- I just got up and drove us an hour to higher altitude. Ah so much easier to sleep! When it got down to 75 just pulled off the road on some BLM land. Plus family was able to go right to sleep as I started driving with A/C on. Sorry to those I woke when I >>very quietly<< exited the campground at midnight. I felt bad about that. Luckily the Toyota runs quiet.

We may have gotten too ambitious this trip heading to the desert during summer and a record setting heat wave as well. Our little Toy performed quite admirably though. Climbing mountains in that kind of heat caused plenty of very modern looking motorhomes to be pulled over with open hoods on our trip; but as usual the Toyota just kept on cruising. Only when I tried to make it into a parking lot air conditioner did it complain ;-)  Even then it was running smoothly when I got scared by the gauges.

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Even if everything is working correctly this is normal,

. Short answer more air moving... fast idle or an aftermarket electric fan

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15 minutes ago, WME said:

Even if everything is working correctly this is normal,

. Short answer more air moving... fast idle or an aftermarket electric fan

This is very helpful. I get what you are saying and it makes sense. I wonder how much I would need to advance the idle; and if there would be a trick to kind of temporarily switch the idle into high...maybe with a switch or something. I actually sat in the driver seat and revved it a tad at idle once during the trip thinking that might be the issue and it did seem to stay cooler.

13 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

Or run the roof air with a generator and switch off the cab air if stuck in traffic (or waiting in a mall parking lot).

Yeah, I totally get that this is the normal solution. It's just a lot of weight and hassle to have a Gen for this very rare occurrence (for me). And I am way too used to having that generator compartment as storage. I have dual house batteries and this provides me with plenty of power when dry camping for everything but the A/C.

I'm actually quite relieved that my temps are normal and WME gave me a couple possible solutions for the rare situation.

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9 hours ago, Mark Krueger said:

Interesting redskinman. Thanks for the info. Let me know how things go this weekend. I think this might be the video you are referring to:

 

Yes that is one of the videos I am referring to.I was not going over any hills like you,probably makes a difference like Linda said, but it's an easy thing to check to see if yours is working right.Also I was told while engine is running to stick a small roll of newspaper into fan{very carefully of course}and if it stops the fan its the fan clutch.I didnt try that,I assume mine would be stopped by the paper since I can turn it by hand when engines not running.

Edited by redskinman
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If the engine is cold then turning the fan by hand is NORMAL. The fan clutch is designed to slip and let the fan run at slow speed to save HP when the engine is not overheating.

When the engine gets too hot the clutch locks up and the fan runs at engine speed to move more air.

 

 

 

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the fan clutch can fail in more ways than just fluid viscosity changes. depending on the make and model the liner can fail causing other issues, fluid can leak all the way out (you would know this because the fluid itself is what does the gripping to the shaft turns) etc. etc.

Another thing that most folks never check which has nothing to do with the clutch or fan... the radiator(s) cleanliness.  If your fins are all bugged up with dead insects and dont let air flow through the fan may be pushing max air and its just rushing over the surface of the fins.  Clean radiator fins are key, be careful not to damage them or bend them but if you do get a comb and comb them out as best as possible. I have seen radiators plugged solid with bugs many times, very little air can move through them.

 

 

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1 hour ago, WME said:

If the engine is cold then turning the fan by hand is NORMAL. The fan clutch is designed to slip and let the fan run at slow speed to save HP when the engine is not overheating.

When the engine gets too hot the clutch locks up and the fan runs at engine speed to move more air.

 

 

 

Well crap,I wasnt told that,I tried it when it was cold.It's at storage unit so I cant test it again till Sunday.Now I'm worried its not the clutch fan and something more serious,thanks a lot lol.

Edited by redskinman
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I think this is quite normal. Mine does the same thing in heavy traffic. I did change the fan clutch and it helps a bit but still run warmer (above mid point) when driving in heavy traffic or stopping with AC on

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12 hours ago, WME said:

If the engine is cold then turning the fan by hand is NORMAL. The fan clutch is designed to slip and let the fan run at slow speed to save HP when the engine is not overheating.

When the engine gets too hot the clutch locks up and the fan runs at engine speed to move more air.

 

 

 

At what point do you think engine would be hot enough for the fan not to move when you turn off engine? I drove down to storage facility and started it up and let it idle 15 minutes with A/C on.After turning off engine fan still moved freely and was not locked up.Temp gauge was at 1/4 tank.It did pass the newspaper in the fan trick,used a rolled up harbor freight flyer and it was not slowing down the fan.

Edit: Since watched some videos on bad fan clutches,I would say mine is not bad,it is not freewheeling as shown in videos

Edited by redskinman
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9 hours ago, linda s said:

Fan comes on when engine is HOT and needs more air. Idling engine is not stressed. Hasn't been pulling 6000 plus pounds yet

Linda S

You have misunderstood what I was asking.But to answer your statement,when I did my little 15 minute test,fan started as soon as I started the engine and never shut off during that 15 minutes of idling.I tried the newspaper in the fan trick as soon as I started the engine.

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Here are my assumptions:-

'Normal' operating temperature is between the temperature when the thermostat starts to open and is fully open (187-194F and 212F (I4), 176-183F and 203F (V6));

With antifreeze/coolant (50%) and a pressurized system (8.5psig minimum, 10-15psig normal), 212F is far from 'boiling' (>265F);

Factory temperature gauge (not a precision, calibrated instrument) is design for 'Normal' to be in the middle of the scale;

The clutch fan coupler does not engage until 'Normal' temperature is reached.

Boiling points.jpg

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Ok this is what I think I know now about the fan clutch.To tell if its not working when cold,with engine off,if you turn it and it keeps spinning after you let go its broke,if it stops it's ok.When engine is running{and testing this on my new truck and the Toyo,it didnt matter if engine was hot or cold}if you stick a rolled up newspaper against fan and it stops,it's broke.At least that was my result on initial startup of cold engines.

Also from what I can gather,correct me if I'm wrong,even though fan is spinning,doesnt mean fan clutch is fully engaged.As engine gets hotter fan clutch will engage and spin fan faster,is that correct?

So I'm convinced now it/s not my fan clutch causing my overheating problem,and also thinking back on the last 3 trips I drove it over an hour it has been running hotter then normal.My daughter noticed on its maiden camping trip voyage Memorial Day weekend.But again once they started driving it cooled back down,and this was driving with A/C on on flat roads,outside temps running around 85-90 degrees.But this last time was the worst,temp gauge almost going into red.

On the return trip home from Galveston last week temp gauge stayed normal for the most part,except when stopping.It was a 2 hr drive home,we stopped 3 times for bathroom ,gas,and coffee.And this was all highway driving with no sitting in traffic,just stopping at gas stations.But at each subsequent stop engine got hotter while sitting.

After 1st stop,temp gauge was at 1/4 mark when engine was turned off to fill up.After sitting 5 minutes and turning engine back on to leave,temp gauge shot up to 3/4 mark upon initial startup but came back down to 1/4 once started driving.It did this every stop except after the next 2 stops it would come back down but not back down to 1/4 level.After 2nd stop it came back down to slightly below 1/2,and after 3rd stop slightly above 1/2.

This cant be normal and its freaking me out.Before I was convinced it was fan clutch but now I dont.I'm seeing no loss of coolant,I dont think its the thermostat but will try and test that today.Also I'm concerned about what damage has been done to the motor from it getting to those temp levels when stopped.I figure I'm going to be on another quest to try and figure out my problem like I was with misfire,or like deadflo has undergone with his overheating story in similar thead:angry:

Mark Krueger,sorry for hijacking your thread,at least I hope my problems help you figure out yours.

 

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Engine temps always get hotter when turning them off for a short while. No coolant moving. When you turn it back on that hot coolant that was just sitting in a hot engine warms up a ton and when you turn it back on it hits the temp gauge. All normal

Linda S

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2 hours ago, linda s said:

Engine temps always get hotter when turning them off for a short while. No coolant moving. When you turn it back on that hot coolant that was just sitting in a hot engine warms up a ton and when you turn it back on it hits the temp gauge. All normal

Linda S

What your saying makes a lot of sense,but,and I could be wrong,but I'm pretty sure it wasnt doing it before.And to go all the way up almost to the red mark seems extreme.It didnt do it on the 7 hr trip home from when I bought it{granted it was cooler then,50-60's}but on a 6 hr trip I would think engine would get plenty hot enough,wouldnt it?

I've driven it on hr long trips before 3 or 4 times to work,but never stopped anywhere on the way so I wouldnt have noticed if it was doing it then.All other trips were just short trips around the house.Like I said ,first time to notice it was on 2 hr trip mem day weekend,with stops in between.Just for it to rise up almost to the red is what freaks me out,I've never seen any of my other vehicles I've owned do this,it certainly does it do it in my newer vehicles even after driving 24 hours straight.

When taking the temp with harbor freight temp gauge,after 20 minute drive top of radiator is reading 200 degrees and motor is reading 250 around spark plug area,is that normal?

Edited by redskinman
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Ok after getting back from 20 minute ride and letting engine cool for 3 hours I tried testing the thermostat.I've read 3 or 4 things to try but the only thing I was able to try was this:Took radiator cap off and let truck idle with a/c on for at least 20 minutes.Temp gauge got up to the 1/2 mark.From what I've read after motor gets to operating temp antifreeze should not be sitting stagnant in radiator that you should see it flowing,well if thats the case then mine failed that test,never saw any movement.But another way to test was if one of the hoses were cool and 1 was hot,both my hoses were hot so it passed that test.

So Im going to take it back to storage tonight.dont know when I'll get a chance to mess with it again.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well I've taken radiator off because it was leaking from working on it from another project,and I see it's got some damaged fins in one spot that are smashed in,I'm sure that is not helping the cooling capabilities.Since its leaking anyway,anyone got recommendations for new one? Rock Auto?

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Edited by redskinman
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Was afraid i would order wrong one over internet so Advanced Auto had one in stock that was supposed to fit so went and got it but it was too long.Does anyone know which one I should order from Rock Auto?

The core looks like it measures 20 3/4"x17 3/4" with overall dimensions 21 3/4"x21 3/4 "

And just to clarify,I'm looking up parts for 91 dlx pickup with v-6.

You can see how much longer new one is,this is one I ordered

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-radiator-432272/3894134-P?krypto=7ApMz518LgBFXL0H60ZifJAm84J1ic3cOw5VpjcRjzaokZcFhxke5X3v9brZ2K8PUUJv5bIcn5GxZpnrbVfKvdnoatB4LO0u5ou%2BeRDj8FlaFGBYSaKIEVMWdprBrTumBv642wefw4UEa2cCxZ8Kti2FM8mpX9ACSpwottumfAFg0EEcLtb%2BTKGXJLpHwNzp

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1 hour ago, linda s said:

The CSF 2057 radiator at Rock Auto  matches the Toyota part numbers exactly. not cheap but all metal 3 row and as good as it gets for radiators

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8610016&cc=1277872&jsn=443

Might be one cheaper on Ebay but that's the part your looking for

Linda S

PS radiator they gave you is for 4wd.

Thanks Linda, appreciate you looking.

Returned that other one, yep it was for 4wd. Decided to order another one local and pick it up tomorrow for a couple reasons. For one, RV is blocking garage and cant move it till its fixed, which is also gonna piss off the home owners assoc. who have been on my behind about parking it there. I figure if I ordered from rock auto it wont be here till Monday, and then if its the wrong one or damaged that delays it further, cant have that.

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Well got new rad installed,spent last 2 nights after work trying to flush entire system,after 8 gallons of water was still didnt get to clear water,gave up and went ahead and put in the antifreeze.it had green antifreeze in it,was going to go back with toyota red but from the research I found once you put in the green you cant go back to red{cant find thread now},so ended up going with Peak antifreeze which was recommended on the Toyota forum{if your not using red}.

After finishing with the flushing last night about 11,put in the antifreeze and let it idle in the driveway about 30 minutes{with heat on} and temp gauge stayed at the 1/4 mark.Took it for a 10 minute drive with A/C on and stopped at gas station to fill up and let it idle with A/C on while I got gas and temp gauge rose up to the 3/4 mark in that short of time.I shut A/C off and drove it home,temp gauge came back down.When I got home I let it idle in the driveway another 30 minutes with nothing on,no heat and no A/C and it stayed below the 1/2 mark,so this leads me to believe the overheating is related to having the A/C on but will have to drive it some more to confirm that.

So if its just the A/C causing the hot temps,looks like that could be a number of things, from compressor getting old,burping the sytem,{which i think I did a good job of already,}radiator or thermostat{which have just been replaced}or water pump going out.The dash air is working but it doesnt seem like its blowing as cold as it once was so maybe its the compressor causing the engine to work harder,who knows.

Edited by redskinman
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The AC condenser is the first thing in the air flow stream. So the air getting to the radiator is HOT and it cools less efficiently. Answer is more air flow, which means an electric booster fan mounted in front.

OR delete the Toyota cooling fan and go to a twin high volume electric puller cooling fan setup. If you can go to a pick n pull and look at the cooling fan setup from a Ford:o Taurus.

Edited by WME
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5 hours ago, redskinman said:

Well got new rad installed,spent last 2 nights after work trying to flush entire system,after 8 gallons of water was still didnt get to clear water,gave up and went ahead and put in the antifreeze.it had green antifreeze in it,was going to go back with toyota red but from the research I found once you put in the green you cant go back to red{cant find thread now},so ended up going with Peak antifreeze which was recommended on the Toyota forum{if your not using red}.

When I was trying to sort through antifreeze I found there is more misinformation than information on the net.  Best one I found was a guy with a 1980's Toy pickup, with like 180,000 miles on it.  He put green antifreeze in it and couple weeks later the radiator started leaking.   He swore it was the green antifreeze  that caused the radiator to leak :D

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9 hours ago, jjrbus said:

When I was trying to sort through antifreeze I found there is more misinformation than information on the net.  Best one I found was a guy with a 1980's Toy pickup, with like 180,000 miles on it.  He put green antifreeze in it and couple weeks later the radiator started leaking.   He swore it was the green antifreeze  that caused the radiator to leak :D

True,very true.I wish I could find the thread again,the guy that posted that said he had done exhaustive research on the subject,sounded like he had a lot of knowledge and so on but in the end who knows? I've found countless post of people saying nothing wrong with green and others saying don't use green

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I stupidly tried to switch to red a few years back. Unfortunately I forgot to flush the heater core. My rig had never gotten hot at all before even driving up to the Sierra's but after I did that it was toast. Had to install new radiator and flush the hell out of it and put green back. Fine now. That was the original radiator I screwed up and I do believe it always had green. So 30 plus years and the green stuff worked fine. And now it's working fine again

Linda S

 

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